0:00:00.209,0:00:02.336 ...on an interpersonal basis, 0:00:02.336,0:00:05.305 institutionally? Not terribly much, 0:00:05.305,0:00:14.014 because most of the lethal, toxic, deadly racism that African American people experience, 0:00:14.014,0:00:15.983 and that other people of colour experience in this country, 0:00:15.983,0:00:17.651 does not come from them. 0:00:17.651,0:00:24.058 It comes from moral, fair-minded people who believe that they are lovers of justice, 0:00:24.058,0:00:30.097 church goers, people who experience themselvesas decent and actually very nice folk. 0:00:30.097,0:00:34.272 And it is there that I find my fear. 0:00:34.365,0:00:37.003 Back to the question of what it means to be white. 0:00:37.003,0:00:39.806 I think what it means to be white in part 0:00:39.806,0:00:45.779 is that you have the privilege of blaming people of colour 0:00:45.779,0:00:48.741 for their own victimization under white supremacy. 0:00:48.741,0:00:50.287 I've heard you say that to me. 0:00:50.518,0:00:51.919 I've heard you say that to him. 0:00:52.088,0:00:53.336 I've heard you say that to him. 0:00:53.567,0:00:54.855 I've heard you say it to him. 0:00:54.855,0:00:58.826 I've heard you say it to, uh, every person of colour in the room 0:00:58.826,0:01:04.223 who challenged your perception of yourself in the world. 0:01:04.223,0:01:06.035 That is part of what it means to be white. 0:01:06.035,0:01:07.660 [David C] Maybe that's part of the answer. 0:01:07.660,0:01:12.131 That we feel that the field is wide open, 0:01:12.131,0:01:13.499 and each man can stand on his own... 0:01:13.499,0:01:17.314 [Victor] No no. Each man does not stand on his own. 0:01:17.314,0:01:20.339 Some men stand on other men, and other women. 0:01:20.339,0:01:26.979 Light skinned men, men from Europe stand on the heads and the parts 0:01:26.979,0:01:30.178 of men and women and children of colour. 0:01:30.178,0:01:35.955 That is.... and of course you also stand on the heads of white women. 0:01:35.955,0:01:41.928 But no, it's not a question of every man standing on his own ground. 0:01:41.928,0:01:45.503 All of the ground damn near of this planet has been taken 0:01:45.503,0:01:49.035 from almost all of the people of colour on this planet. 0:01:49.035,0:01:52.338 You know, Australia was a black continent. 0:01:52.753,0:01:55.508 Africa was a black continent 0:01:55.508,0:01:58.111 And if the people themselves were not taken from Africa, 0:01:58.111,0:02:03.416 then everything of value was taken from Africa to the extent that that was possible. 0:02:03.416,0:02:06.318 North America was a red continent. 0:02:06.318,0:02:07.820 South America was a red continent. 0:02:07.820,0:02:10.022 You are NOT stading on your own ground. 0:02:10.022,0:02:14.460 You are standing on RED ground. 0:02:14.460,0:02:16.495 And THAT's what it means to be white. 0:02:16.495,0:02:22.235 To say that you're standing on your own ground and standing on somebody else's. 0:02:22.235,0:02:28.630 And then mystify the whole process so it seems like you're not doing that. 0:02:32.245,0:02:38.613 White. Why is being white such a unique thing? 0:02:38.613,0:02:42.150 Why is it such a, an important thing? 0:02:42.150,0:02:43.618 I've never felt that way. 0:02:43.618,0:02:45.220 [Roberto]It is kind of... y'kow... 0:02:45.220,0:02:48.823 [David C] Well it must be. You're telling me that being white is special. 0:02:48.823,0:02:51.746 And I'm not feeling special. 0:02:51.746,0:02:54.496 And I've never felt special because I was white. 0:02:54.496,0:02:59.601 You've pointed out to me where I have racial prejudisms. 0:02:59.601,0:03:06.241 And I've expressed that innocently, and naively, by just little questions & statement that I've made. 0:03:06.241,0:03:12.247 Um. Yeah. Maybe I really am that way. 0:03:12.247,0:03:20.188 [Gordon] I have a real difficult time talking with you about your experience. 0:03:20.188,0:03:20.688 I can relate to their frustration. 0:03:20.688,0:03:24.359 It just doesn't feel like anything's getting through. 0:03:24.359,0:03:28.797 [Hugh] I'm working up my courage to ask you something, a request. 0:03:28.797,0:03:31.967 And also there's a question with it. 0:03:31.967,0:03:37.872 The request is for you to not give up on David, to go after him. 0:03:37.872,0:03:39.941 I'm not able to get through, 0:03:39.941,0:03:44.112 and many in the room are not able to get through. 0:03:44.112,0:03:48.817 And we've given statistics, and we've given personal stories, and we've given histories, 0:03:48.817,0:03:50.785 and we've dadadadada. 0:03:50.785,0:03:55.390 We've yelled, we've screamed, we've cried, you know, it's not getting through. 0:03:55.390,0:03:58.294 I'm sure you've met other white people that you just have said 0:03:58.294,0:04:01.997 "bye, forget it, I'm not, I don't need to deal with you" 0:04:01.997,0:04:03.432 you know, that kind of thing. 0:04:03.432,0:04:07.970 I don't have the privilege of not dealing with the Davids in the world. 0:04:07.970,0:04:12.006 So I'm askin', I'm askin' you to do that. 0:04:12.006,0:04:16.444 I'm actually boldly expecting you to do that. 0:04:16.444,0:04:18.246 [laughing] 0:04:18.246,0:04:25.420 If I were standing in front of a whole room full of white people, 0:04:25.420,0:04:30.025 I would tell them much of what I've told some of the men in this group this weekend, 0:04:30.025,0:04:31.994 the white men in this group. 0:04:31.994,0:04:37.032 I would tell them that it's their responsibility to go educate their white brothers & sisters. 0:04:37.032,0:04:40.183 I would tell them it's their, that it's my expectation, 0:04:40.183,0:04:43.304 I expect them to eliminate racism. 0:04:43.304,0:04:49.043 I expect them to go out and intervene whenever they see racism going on. 0:04:49.043,0:04:54.249 And I expect them to be as outraged about racism as I am outraged by racism, 0:04:54.249,0:04:56.018 as black people are outraged, 0:04:56.018,0:04:57.219 as Asians are outraged, 0:04:57.219,0:04:58.720 as Indians are outraged. 0:04:58.720,0:05:00.322 I expect that of them, 0:05:00.322,0:05:01.685 and that's what I would tell them. 0:05:01.685,0:05:02.991 I would tell them what I expect, 0:05:02.991,0:05:07.095 I'll tell them what I, I'd tell them what I never want to hear from them again. 0:05:07.095,0:05:11.866 I never wanna hear stuff about um, how my experience is not valid, 0:05:11.866,0:05:15.336 or why can't I just pull myself up by my bootstraps. 0:05:15.336,0:05:17.289 Those are things that I would tell them about. 0:05:17.289,0:05:20.964 And I'd tell them that they've gotta end it. They've gotta end it. 0:05:23.178,0:05:30.409 This morning, I felt this ray of hope and optimism, when you shared that you get nervous 0:05:30.409,0:05:38.134 when you would go down to San Francisco into an ethnically diverse neighbourhood, 0:05:38.134,0:05:43.172 and that you actually got in touch with those messages, 0:05:43.172,0:05:48.077 whether they were given to you directly, taught to you directly, or not, 0:05:48.077,0:05:53.349 or somehow that you felt how these things just started to come over you. 0:05:53.349,0:05:55.151 [Lee Mun Wah] Why is that important to you... 0:05:55.151,0:06:00.123 [Yutaka] Because I just sort of felt that you finally connected with some feelings, 0:06:00.123,0:06:05.662 and getting down here, instead of being up here in the uh, frontal lobes, 0:06:05.662,0:06:10.424 and analyzing every everything, and looking at everything rational. 0:06:10.424,0:06:14.272 'Cause a lot of the fears or the anger, isn't rational. 0:06:14.503,0:06:18.922 [David C] It's probably the looks that you get. 0:06:18.922,0:06:20.376 I think that's where it comes from. 0:06:20.376,0:06:24.313 The looks, of the individuals, 0:06:24.313,0:06:28.451 uh, they stand on the corners and, uh, "what are you doin' here?" y'know? 0:06:28.451,0:06:32.088 And they make me feel unwanted. 0:06:32.088,0:06:34.858 I think that's what I feel. 0:06:34.858,0:06:38.862 [Yutaka] Yeah.As pickup trucks do... 0:06:38.862,0:06:40.096 [laughing] 0:06:40.096,0:06:43.399 guys with, cowboy, sitting there, you pull up in the gas station... 0:06:45.362,0:06:48.932 I know my feelings are very opposed to some of yours, 0:06:48.932,0:06:53.703 and I don't understand why you have all this intense anger, and emotions, 0:06:53.703,0:06:59.343 why it's so difficult for you to just be yourselves, 0:06:59.343,0:07:02.346 and make your place. 0:07:02.346,0:07:05.282 Wh... I think that's the big difference here. 0:07:05.282,0:07:13.257 We white men don't have this comraderie if you want, that you coloureds have. 0:07:13.257,0:07:19.095 We, we we have, we don't go out and organize, we don't go out and have discussions, 0:07:19.095,0:07:22.565 we just do our stuff, whatever our stuff is, I guess. 0:07:22.565,0:07:26.937 I see that we're living in 2 completely different consciousnesses, 0:07:26.937,0:07:35.245 and, y'know, I think that I get yours, and that I have to be able to understand yours in order to survive. 0:07:35.245,0:07:38.982 You live in a world where it's not necessary in most instances for you to understand 0:07:38.982,0:07:41.185 my consciousness and my experience. 0:07:41.185,0:07:45.322 It's like one of those parking garages with the spikes coming up. 0:07:45.322,0:07:52.563 You know, you live in the world where when you drive your car past, the spikes lay down. 0:07:52.563,0:07:56.800 And I live in the world, and the men of colour here live in the world where 0:07:56.800,0:07:59.816 when we come up to the spikes, man, they're facing right at us. 0:08:00.093,0:08:02.806 The thought comes to me, Victor, you're going the wrong direction. 0:08:02.806,0:08:05.409 If the spikes are opposing you, 0:08:05.409,0:08:07.357 does that ever occur to you, that you're going the wrong direction? 0:08:07.588,0:08:12.015 That's a beautiful statement to me, that I'm going the wrong direction. 0:08:12.015,0:08:18.168 It's a marvelous illustration of the consciousness of white supremacy. 0:08:18.476,0:08:20.288 Well, let's not say white supremacy... 0:08:20.380,0:08:21.610 [Victor] Well, I... 0:08:21.610,0:08:23.860 that's what I want to say... 0:08:24.260,0:08:26.882 [David C] This is where as you speak this analogy, 0:08:26.882,0:08:32.035 and I'm thinking to myself "golly, why does it always have to be in opposition 0:08:32.035,0:08:34.638 to the way things are structured?" 0:08:34.638,0:08:38.208 And I constantly sit here and think "why is he taking this direction?" 0:08:38.208,0:08:46.550 Why don't they as a group, why don't you with your people, look for something within yourselves 0:08:46.550,0:08:50.754 that can make you feel equal to us? 0:08:50.754,0:08:57.260 Because what I hear is you are not equal, and I do not feel that. 0:08:58.829,0:09:09.971 [Lee Mun Wah] So what's leeping you from believing that that's happening to Victor? 0:09:09.971,0:09:12.474 Just believe it, not to know why that's happening to him, 0:09:12.474,0:09:15.176 but what's keeping you from believing that that's happening... 0:09:15.176,0:09:19.650 [David C] Because it seems like such a harsh life, and I just don't want to believe. 0:09:19.650,0:09:24.955 I would assume, Victor, that your life is really that hard, difficult, and unpleasant, 0:09:24.955,0:09:28.259 [Lee Mun Wah] What would it mean David then if the life really was that harsh? 0:09:28.259,0:09:31.962 What would that mean in your life, if it really was that harsh... 0:09:31.962,0:09:34.198 [David C] It would be a travesty of life. 0:09:34.198,0:09:36.863 You have here something that shouldn't exist. 0:09:37.735,0:09:41.639 [Lee Mun Wah] And so what if it does? 0:09:41.639,0:09:43.979 What if the world were not as you thought? 0:09:43.979,0:09:48.350 That it actually is happening to lots of human beings on this earth, 0:09:48.350,0:09:53.845 what if it actually were, and you didn't know about it? What would that mean to you? 0:09:54.654,0:09:58.060 Well that's very saddening. 0:10:00.295,0:10:09.223 [voice cracking] You don't want to believe that man can be so cruel to himself or his own kind. 0:10:10.439,0:10:14.743 I do not want to accept that it has to be that way... maybe it is, 0:10:14.743,0:10:21.109 and it must be, because you express it and, the others in the group express that it is. 0:10:26.285,0:10:28.911 From here I can work with you. 0:10:30.957,0:10:34.160 I do not find you to be an enemy. 0:10:34.160,0:10:39.563 Aggressive, and frightening when you become very animated and agitated, but... 0:10:39.563,0:10:41.601 [Victor] We spend a lot of time being nice, 0:10:41.601,0:10:44.504 and conciliatory, and thoughtful, and careful. 0:10:44.504,0:10:46.873 I don't want to be exciteable with you about it. 0:10:46.873,0:10:48.712 I become excitable 0:10:48.712,0:10:54.747 when I feel like there's no way for my humanity to get affirmed, 0:10:54.747,0:11:00.720 if I can't say no with my whole aliveness to being mistreated or invalidated, 0:11:00.720,0:11:04.693 then, yeah, then I'm dead, I'm as good as dead. 0:11:05.124,0:11:09.262 If there were some way that I could be of use and service to you, I would. 0:11:09.262,0:11:13.641 I don't know how. I've never looked at that possibility. 0:11:14.701,0:11:20.907 I think how you could help me is to begin to understand yourself better. 0:11:20.907,0:11:26.145 I don't need help from you or from white folks, 0:11:26.145,0:11:33.519 as much as I need a sense of fairness, which is lacking, 0:11:33.519,0:11:44.698 and as much as I need a sense of awareness about this invisible protection that you have, 0:11:44.698,0:11:47.233 and this invisible privilege that you have... 0:11:47.233,0:11:52.806 When Victor was telling you about you being asleep, not being conscious of your privilege, 0:11:52.806,0:11:54.240 and taking it for granted, 0:11:54.240,0:12:00.479 it was revealed to me that that is true when you referred to us as "you coloureds", 0:12:00.479,0:12:04.450 because I find that is a very demeaning term. 0:12:04.450,0:12:06.586 I find it alienating, 0:12:06.586,0:12:11.858 and I've heard it in the context of referring to people of colour in a negative fashion. 0:12:11.858,0:12:13.879 And it's painful for me to hear it. 0:12:14.094,0:12:16.177 How would you like me to address you? 0:12:16.362,0:12:18.631 Well, not as "you anything". 0:12:18.631,0:12:23.891 Not "you people", not "you coloureds", not "you Asians", not "you blacks", not "you Latinos". 0:12:24.837,0:12:25.918 [David C] You David. 0:12:26.072,0:12:29.342 [David L] It's people of colour, or David if you want to talk about non-whites, 0:12:29.727,0:12:32.445 I'm more comfortable with that, 0:12:32.445,0:12:36.482 cause when you say "you", it's sort of, um, it's alienating. 0:12:36.482,0:12:42.989 You bastards, you pigs, you lowlifes, you no-good people, you people of colour, 0:12:42.989,0:12:44.806 that's how it feels. 0:12:47.193,0:12:50.830 I know I have talked to black people who have said you know 0:12:50.830,0:12:56.369 you have immigrants that come to this country and they can't speak a word of the language, 0:12:56.369,0:12:57.803 except for one thing. 0:12:57.803,0:12:59.372 They can all say "nigger". 0:12:59.695,0:13:05.411 Racism between whites and people of colour isn't the only racism that exists. 0:13:05.411,0:13:08.019 There's racism amongst people of colour. 0:13:09.215,0:13:12.585 It was dusk, it was dark, 0:13:12.585,0:13:15.355 this whole group of black people they're 0:13:15.355,0:13:20.193 going home, and I had this anxiety, this tension, 0:13:20.193,0:13:23.329 and I said why am I so, y'know, what's this big deal, 0:13:23.329,0:13:28.467 and then I started to relax and I said these people are just going home from work. 0:13:28.467,0:13:30.469 Just like me. 0:13:30.469,0:13:32.071 We're all waiting at the busstop, 0:13:32.071,0:13:40.813 and as soon as I opened my eyes and scanned, and released myself from all this fear. 0:13:40.813,0:13:44.818 But it still comes up, I get frightened, 0:13:44.818,0:13:47.823 you guys are powerful, you guys got a lot of power. 0:13:51.991,0:13:57.330 Certain Asian people have reacted toward me, and that really hurt me 0:13:57.330,0:14:02.101 because I felt they were, uh, they took their cues from white people. 0:14:02.101,0:14:08.307 You know, like, I've walked by Asian women, and you can see them tense up. 0:14:08.307,0:14:09.975 And that really bothered me, 0:14:09.975,0:14:12.278 that here was somebody who is another minority, 0:14:12.278,0:14:21.120 and yet they had all these, um, they treated me in a way that they wouldn't want to be treated. 0:14:21.120,0:14:25.592 It was like they were treating me like some kind of thug off the street, and I really hated that. 0:14:25.592,0:14:30.162 At the table behind us were 2, um, young black women, 0:14:30.162,0:14:34.200 and they're laughing and then looking over at my table where I was sitting, 0:14:34.200,0:14:36.702 and I heard one say "all Chinese look alike". 0:14:36.702,0:14:38.871 I got up and I walked over to them, 0:14:38.871,0:14:40.940 and they just wouldn't look at me, 0:14:40.940,0:14:42.875 they kept kind of giggling not looking at me. 0:14:42.875,0:14:46.746 And I said I heard you, I heard what you said and I disagree with that. 0:14:46.746,0:14:49.228 Do you think all blacks look alike? 0:14:50.896,0:14:54.220 And I came back to my car and there was a motorcycle parked in front of it, 0:14:54.220,0:14:57.557 and I looked around, and there was a black man in a motorcycle helmet 0:14:57.557,0:14:59.726 getting money out of the money machine. 0:14:59.726,9:59:59.000 And I was pissed...