WEBVTT 00:00:00.099 --> 00:00:14.990 34C3 preroll music 00:00:14.990 --> 00:00:20.670 Herald (H): Let me introduce: It's Sir Wombat and Nero Lapislucis. So, give them 00:00:20.670 --> 00:00:28.110 a warm welcome and everybody is interested in how to get the stuff done. 00:00:30.970 --> 00:00:32.650 Nero (N): unaudible 00:00:43.650 --> 00:00:47.800 We are going to present our juice press, which is this gorgeous instrument you can 00:00:47.800 --> 00:00:52.519 see over there. And then we will talk about the fermentation vessel 00:00:52.519 --> 00:00:57.469 you will need if you want to build one yourself. And we will explain shortly 00:00:57.469 --> 00:01:03.209 again how you can create alcohol out of the yeast and the fruit juice. Afterwards 00:01:03.209 --> 00:01:09.950 we will present the model of a still which you can see over there on the desk. 00:01:13.510 --> 00:01:18.760 Sir Wombat (W): By model we mean it doesn't actually work, it only looks like it. 00:01:18.760 --> 00:01:25.740 N: It's a kind of a hypothetical operation of a miniature still. Afterwards you will 00:01:25.740 --> 00:01:32.791 get to know an alternative method of getting high percent alcohol, which is the 00:01:32.791 --> 00:01:41.950 ice rifing. This is that. So, who are we? I'm Nero, I am kind of a professional 00:01:41.950 --> 00:01:47.280 viking. Why am I presenting this talk? I was studying abroad in Norway and I was 00:01:47.280 --> 00:01:51.890 too broke to buy the beer, so I had to find some solutions and I started making 00:01:51.890 --> 00:01:58.009 the wine. And Sir Wombat over there is an electrical engineer and he's just trying 00:01:58.009 --> 00:02:05.729 to build stuff since forever. Let's start with the juice press. I don't know - Do we 00:02:05.729 --> 00:02:09.740 have the camera? Or are we doing it without? 00:02:09.740 --> 00:02:17.390 Laughter W: I can just hold it up and maybe you see it. 00:02:17.390 --> 00:02:19.940 N: So basically what we have is a wooden frame 00:02:19.940 --> 00:02:24.380 and then there is a car jack attached to it. 00:02:24.380 --> 00:02:30.250 With that we press this kind of wooden block down. And then we have on the 00:02:30.250 --> 00:02:36.250 right hand side it's like this wood part which has a special shape so the juice can 00:02:36.250 --> 00:02:42.080 run off. This is on the lower side. And there is the fruit between it. And with 00:02:42.080 --> 00:02:47.230 the car jack you get lots of pressure. Actually if you boil the mash you can just 00:02:47.230 --> 00:02:53.210 use the kitchen towel. But it's a lot of work. So this is actually kind of nice. 00:02:53.210 --> 00:03:00.600 Inaudible question from the audience N: Yeah, you can do it with whole apples. 00:03:00.600 --> 00:03:04.370 You can cut them beforehand: You can put them in the oven for a little while and it 00:03:04.370 --> 00:03:11.150 makes it a lot easier. I don't know, I think it's easier if you kind of boil them 00:03:11.150 --> 00:03:15.280 or put them in the oven beforehand and cut them. Then you get a little bit more juice. 00:03:15.280 --> 00:03:19.710 Because what you see when you try this is that you have a lot of work. 00:03:19.710 --> 00:03:27.640 And a lot of fruit for actually very little juice. Yeah, it's a lot of work 00:03:27.640 --> 00:03:32.740 W: Inaudible N: The thing is that the fruit juice, what 00:03:32.740 --> 00:03:40.150 is useful for the alcohol, it's basically just the sugar water. You can cheat which 00:03:40.150 --> 00:03:44.810 is actually not allowed, but in theory you might cheat and add sugar to your fruit 00:03:44.810 --> 00:03:50.870 juice, then the yeast has more kind of fruit and more basics to produce the 00:03:50.870 --> 00:03:55.730 alcohol from. So you can add molasses to the fruit juice and that will increase the 00:03:55.730 --> 00:04:05.820 alcohol outcome of your molasses. This is in basics the process you just heard 00:04:05.820 --> 00:04:09.390 about. You have the sugar water and yeast. And the yeast is working in the sugar 00:04:09.390 --> 00:04:13.940 water and by that creating alcohol and CO2. That's why you need the fermentation 00:04:13.940 --> 00:04:17.960 vessel, which we will talk about in the next part. You can basically just use 00:04:21.060 --> 00:04:25.060 normal yeast from the supermarket. You could also use some yeast cultures which 00:04:25.060 --> 00:04:28.560 are on the fruits. There are also some kind of hippie wine producers which just 00:04:28.560 --> 00:04:34.000 use the apples like they are and use the cultures which already are on them. But 00:04:34.000 --> 00:04:37.340 it's better to use this specialized yeast, because you have optimal alcohol outcome 00:04:37.340 --> 00:04:44.720 and lower risk that there are other bacteria evolving. What you don't want is 00:04:44.720 --> 00:04:49.490 that there is oxygen coming into your fermentation process, because then what 00:04:49.490 --> 00:04:54.310 you get isn't alcohol but vinegar. It just kind of tastes disgusting and it's not 00:04:54.310 --> 00:04:59.770 what you make it for. That's why we are building the fermentation vessel. It's 00:04:59.770 --> 00:05:08.371 basically just a mechanism to keep the air away. These are the ingredients you will 00:05:08.371 --> 00:05:14.600 need to do. On the left hand side is my first experiment, on the right side is Sir 00:05:14.600 --> 00:05:20.410 Wombat's. He has this special thing that he puts a pen in a kind of peanut butter 00:05:20.410 --> 00:05:24.650 jar beforehand so the whole thing sticks better. You don't really need to do that 00:05:28.650 --> 00:05:33.310 if your hose is kind of thick enough. I had this guzzling hose and it worked just 00:05:33.310 --> 00:05:43.460 fine. You have to fix the hose in your fermentation vessel and in this kind of 00:05:43.460 --> 00:05:50.130 jar which is filled with water. You can just use glue for that but it needs to be 00:05:50.130 --> 00:05:55.720 airproof. What's happening is the CO2 which comes from the fermentation process 00:05:55.720 --> 00:06:02.120 can leave the vessel through the hose. So it just goes into the glass of water. The 00:06:02.120 --> 00:06:08.220 effect is that no oxigen can come in and go the other way around. So it's really 00:06:08.220 --> 00:06:15.330 simple. It's useful to have a fermentation starter. For that you start with 00:06:15.330 --> 00:06:20.850 activating the dried yeast. The thing with that is, that you give the yeast, which 00:06:20.850 --> 00:06:26.110 you want to have a good life in there, a head start ahead of all other bacterias or 00:06:26.110 --> 00:06:34.200 kind of microbes which would want to evolve in there. It's not that important 00:06:34.200 --> 00:06:38.290 that you keep the air out because you don't keep it for that long. What you do 00:06:38.290 --> 00:06:42.590 is: You take the yeast you want, you put sugar in there and you put the molasses in 00:06:42.590 --> 00:06:47.020 there. You just give it a head start with a lot of sugar and you keep it in there 00:06:47.020 --> 00:06:54.280 for kind of about 12 hours. Then you put it in the fermentation vessel and add the 00:06:54.280 --> 00:06:59.430 rest of the molasses. So it's not really in there for that long. Because of that 00:06:59.430 --> 00:07:04.880 it's not that important to keep the air out. It doesn't have that much contact. 00:07:04.880 --> 00:07:09.260 Here you can see the fermentation process. This is kind of a peanut butter jar and 00:07:09.260 --> 00:07:18.180 there is the air and CO2 coming out. It looks like that when the fermentation is 00:07:18.180 --> 00:07:24.390 running on high it can get a lot faster. But most of the time - It's also this nice 00:07:24.390 --> 00:07:30.190 blubbing sound. If you keep it in your room - you will have a good night. How 00:07:30.190 --> 00:07:34.390 will you know when your fermentation ends? Some of the yeast will die. You will 00:07:34.390 --> 00:07:38.370 notice this at the bottom of the fermentation vessel. It will just float 00:07:38.370 --> 00:07:44.930 down. You will also notice that the fermentation process is getting a lot 00:07:44.930 --> 00:07:49.350 slower. Why does this happen? Either you have already too much alcohol for the 00:07:49.350 --> 00:07:53.061 yeast to survive. This depends a bit on the kind of yeast you are using, but 00:07:53.061 --> 00:07:59.820 mostly it's about 15% you can get. Or maybe there's just no sugar left. You 00:07:59.820 --> 00:08:03.240 don't really want that to happen because then it doesn't really taste that good. 00:08:03.240 --> 00:08:08.220 But basically it's also a possibility if you just want the alcohol. Just remember 00:08:08.220 --> 00:08:13.590 that you shouldn't bottle it before it's totally finished because there's... As 00:08:13.590 --> 00:08:17.270 long as there is still some fermentation going on, there is also CO2 coming out and 00:08:17.270 --> 00:08:23.280 your bottle might explode. You don't want that. But if you continue with distilling 00:08:23.280 --> 00:08:27.050 the whole thing it doesn't really matter because you work with it and you don't 00:08:27.050 --> 00:08:33.458 bottle it. So what do we do now? We have the finished wine in the fermentation 00:08:33.458 --> 00:08:39.749 vessel and you have the dead yeast on the ground. You should be careful when you 00:08:39.749 --> 00:08:45.689 fill it in bottels or another vessel, because that yeast tastes kind of nasty. 00:08:45.689 --> 00:08:49.920 So you should siphon it off. You can also pour it but then you should take a lot of 00:08:49.920 --> 00:08:58.319 time and be very careful with it. Yes, to measure the alcohol content which will be 00:08:58.319 --> 00:09:04.899 as said, explained before about 15% in the mash there's different tools. For the mash 00:09:04.899 --> 00:09:11.749 we have the vinometer. If you want to measure it in the steel output you have 00:09:11.749 --> 00:09:19.850 the hydrometer.This is when I give over to my friend. Yeah, sugar is a problem in 00:09:19.850 --> 00:09:26.560 measuring actually because it confuses the instrument - both of them. So you should 00:09:26.560 --> 00:09:32.029 consider this. And actually it's not really that fancy so you can get both of 00:09:32.029 --> 00:09:41.740 them for like 10€. It's useful to have. We had that already. The results you get with 00:09:41.740 --> 00:09:48.329 the fruit wine is normally between 6% and 13%. 13 is already kind of high. If you 00:09:48.329 --> 00:09:54.449 just use the process like I explained it, it's probably a bit less. So that's 00:09:54.449 --> 00:10:01.589 actually why you would want to destill it afterwards. W: So we're talking about what 00:10:01.589 --> 00:10:08.759 would happen if you'd want to build a still. We're not talking about an actual 00:10:08.759 --> 00:10:15.459 still. We're talking about a model that looks like it could work, but doesn't. 00:10:15.459 --> 00:10:20.360 Because as we said - we wouldn't break any rules, and Stefan said it's not allowed. 00:10:20.360 --> 00:10:30.079 It's not legal to do so. The thing to build such a model - such a home sized 00:10:30.079 --> 00:10:37.050 model, not an semi-professional one, you don't need all the... like 5000€ was the 00:10:37.050 --> 00:10:44.800 cheaptest professional one we talked about. For such a tiny model you could get 00:10:44.800 --> 00:10:51.879 away with 75€ if you're really resourceful like using an old pressure cooker from the 00:10:51.879 --> 00:10:58.459 GDR. Those are finally the cheapest ones you find on eBay This size is like 10€ - 00:10:58.459 --> 00:11:06.670 it's a nice thing. Some copper pipes you can get in your hardware store. The type 00:11:06.670 --> 00:11:13.750 of copper pipe is used to connect fridges. Like for that fresh water and ice cube 00:11:13.750 --> 00:11:19.779 feature fridges have. unaudible 00:11:19.779 --> 00:11:27.509 The cooling system is just an old canister and some electronics I'll talk about 00:11:27.509 --> 00:11:42.059 later. Let's just get back to the slides. Back to the slides please. Thanks. 00:11:42.059 --> 00:11:48.480 The temperature sensing - we'll talk later about... And then that's it. So you just 00:11:48.480 --> 00:11:57.709 connect the copper pipes like this in a T-form with a cork on top. And the screw 00:11:57.709 --> 00:12:04.880 thing on the bottom to connect it to the lid of the pressure cooker. At that point 00:12:04.880 --> 00:12:10.410 you use like an end cap for the copper pipe, drill a hole into it and connect the 00:12:10.410 --> 00:12:19.040 thinner copper pipe to it. That will go onto the pressure cooker like this. Then 00:12:19.040 --> 00:12:23.629 you need to do some soldering. Most of you probably know how to solder. This another 00:12:23.629 --> 00:12:30.420 kind of soldering. It's the same thing - you use tin and copper and some flux to 00:12:30.420 --> 00:12:37.500 make it flow easier. And not a soldering iron but a blow torch, but that's all the 00:12:37.500 --> 00:12:48.209 difference there is. And then you just drill a hole into your cut open canister, 00:12:48.209 --> 00:12:54.250 push it on there and use lots of glue to make it waterproof - It's no rocket 00:12:54.250 --> 00:13:03.569 science. Then the temperature measurement we want to have that because in theory you 00:13:03.569 --> 00:13:14.589 need a very precise measurement. In practice it didn't seem like we couldn't 00:13:14.589 --> 00:13:20.749 live without it, but it's very interesting and it's helpful. How do we do that? Just 00:13:20.749 --> 00:13:26.230 use on of those cheap integrated digital temperature sensors, a Raspberry Pi, a 00:13:26.230 --> 00:13:33.639 real time clock to date the measurement protocol - that's just nice to have - and 00:13:33.639 --> 00:13:41.639 a bit of python script. Mine is ugly, so it's not published, but everybody can do 00:13:41.639 --> 00:13:50.240 it. It's like a day of work that will output a small website that shows the 00:13:50.240 --> 00:13:56.850 current temperature graph. You can click on this link and download the current 00:13:56.850 --> 00:14:01.509 temperature, like all the measurements as an Excel-file, and you can even download 00:14:01.509 --> 00:14:08.489 former measurements. And that's why we need the realtime clock so that we don't 00:14:08.489 --> 00:14:16.750 start a chaos. That's all there is. If you have WiFi that's nice because you can 00:14:16.750 --> 00:14:21.269 leave the room well it's running. But yeah, you see something is not going well 00:14:21.269 --> 00:14:30.239 and then you rush back. So you probably stay with it anyway. Now, this is how a 00:14:30.239 --> 00:14:37.129 hypothetical run-through would look like. A tablet in the background, showing the 00:14:37.129 --> 00:14:41.860 temperatures, the WiFi-router ... Laughter 00:14:41.860 --> 00:14:52.069 It's a really great guy that he puts up with this. So yeah, you open the lid, you 00:14:52.069 --> 00:14:59.059 put in your mash. Remember this is only a model. Then if your pressure cooker has a 00:14:59.059 --> 00:15:07.860 broken locking-mechanism you use some chains and a screw to keep the lid closed. 00:15:07.860 --> 00:15:13.750 It's not as critical as actual pressure cooker operation. 00:15:13.750 --> 00:15:20.860 Laughter and applause Yeah. It's not as critical as actual 00:15:20.860 --> 00:15:25.110 pressure cooker operation because there will be no pressure. If pressure builds up 00:15:25.110 --> 00:15:33.429 you made some big mistake like plugging up the cooling pipe. If you thought the chain 00:15:33.429 --> 00:15:43.589 was funny then come around and show the safety valve. it's like... yeah... as As I 00:15:43.589 --> 00:15:49.410 said it's all cheap and made up. But it works. No, it doesn't. 00:15:49.410 --> 00:15:56.720 Laughter It could work, so, as I said, you put mash 00:15:56.720 --> 00:16:06.159 in, close the lid, turn on the gas stove. It's a gas stove because with no other 00:16:06.159 --> 00:16:14.089 kind of stove you can regulate the power as fast - maybe with an induction heater - but 00:16:14.089 --> 00:16:21.110 that doesn't work with a GDR pressure cooker. Then you started heating. At some 00:16:21.110 --> 00:16:26.839 point evaporation will start, it will go up here, pass the thermometers so that we can 00:16:26.839 --> 00:16:32.839 see the gas temperature. And then the gas will run in here in the cooler. And there 00:16:32.839 --> 00:16:39.759 it hopefully condensates so that we don't blow up the operation. Yeah, we put some 00:16:39.759 --> 00:16:46.430 great effort in into our non-functional model. We even painted it to look chalked. (Laughter) 00:16:46.430 --> 00:16:51.910 There is another thermometer in here so that we see that the cooling system is as 00:16:51.910 --> 00:16:53.419 cold as it's supposed to be. 00:16:54.899 --> 00:16:59.889 And then if it would work the alcohol would drop out 00:16:59.889 --> 00:17:05.610 here and run over the last temperature sensor so we can see 00:17:05.610 --> 00:17:10.360 how warm it is. 00:17:10.360 --> 00:17:14.229 Because if it gets too warm it will be vapor and that's bad. 00:17:14.229 --> 00:17:16.479 And just for the fun of it there's an 00:17:16.479 --> 00:17:22.569 additional temperature sensor on the connector board that's this 00:17:22.569 --> 00:17:30.340 one here. Yeah. It's just to measure the room temperature.So, yeah, now we come to 00:17:30.340 --> 00:17:35.584 a totally made up graph of an operation. 00:17:35.584 --> 00:17:40.039 The red line is the gas temperature that 00:17:40.039 --> 00:17:45.720 is always the most important one. Because at the current gas temperature, you can 00:17:45.720 --> 00:17:54.059 see what, or you can at least guess, what chemical is currently running ... 00:17:54.059 --> 00:17:56.829 evaporating. 00:17:56.829 --> 00:18:03.919 The big plateau you can see at the top that is where the alcohol would 00:18:03.919 --> 00:18:10.200 be, assuming that for a long time there would be alcohol coming out of the mash, 00:18:10.200 --> 00:18:18.000 that turns into a plateau. The orange temperature is the air temperature. The 00:18:18.000 --> 00:18:24.150 green line is what the output temperature would be. At the beginning it's something 00:18:24.150 --> 00:18:32.500 like the room temperature. And then at the point where actual product starts dripping 00:18:32.500 --> 00:18:40.179 out it cools down to the cooling water temperature and then running through it at 00:18:40.179 --> 00:18:46.810 some point it will start separating because the cooling can't keep up because we don't 00:18:46.810 --> 00:18:52.169 have a run-through cooler, we just have water in there, and that will start to 00:18:52.169 --> 00:18:59.500 heat up. The ticks at the end, where the temperature suddenly drops, yeah, that 00:18:59.500 --> 00:19:05.630 could be caused by having too high temperature and too much alcohol running 00:19:05.630 --> 00:19:11.690 through the cooler. So then you'd turn down the heat a bit and it would start to 00:19:11.690 --> 00:19:16.471 drop, and then you turn back up and it starts rising again. And at the end of a 00:19:16.471 --> 00:19:22.290 run-through, when you open the lid again and the cold air comes there all the 00:19:22.290 --> 00:19:29.500 temperatures drop again. And you're done with it. So as I said, it's all 00:19:29.500 --> 00:19:37.450 hypothetical. And the hypothetical results could be something like ... Stop! There 00:19:37.450 --> 00:19:46.899 was this methanol thing. So, with a still of this size, you won't get any dangerous NOTE Paragraph 00:19:46.899 --> 00:19:59.070 amounts of methanol. Yeah, we just...To be safe we drop the first 15 ml. We dispose 00:19:59.070 --> 00:20:02.910 of them properly by burning them on the ground. 00:20:02.910 --> 00:20:03.160 laughter 00:20:03.160 --> 00:20:14.440 Then, what could the output look like? 00:20:14.440 --> 00:20:21.600 If you would do this, it'd be a great idea to separate the output in 100 00:20:21.600 --> 00:20:26.159 ml jars and measure each separately, so that you can follow what happens. 00:20:26.159 --> 00:20:34.590 And it could be like the first jar would be maybe 58%; maybe the 9th jar would be 35%, 00:20:34.590 --> 00:20:39.309 because the higher the temperature gets the more water evaporates and so the 00:20:39.309 --> 00:20:41.430 alcohol rate is lower. 00:20:41.430 --> 00:20:49.070 Of those six glasses maybe the first six would be 00:20:49.070 --> 00:20:55.500 usable, because the afterrun that has the stuff that evaporates at the higher 00:20:55.500 --> 00:21:04.049 temperatures would taste bad. And if you wanted higher percentages, you could just 00:21:04.049 --> 00:21:11.730 still it again and then you'd maybe get up to 78%. As Francisco already said, we 00:21:11.730 --> 00:21:20.190 measure the output of the still - we would measure it - with the hydrometer. 00:21:20.190 --> 00:21:29.179 And then 78% percent is nothing you ever drink, you only taste alcohol and nothing of the 00:21:29.179 --> 00:21:36.100 fruit, so if you had a still output with 78%, you would dilute it with water to 00:21:36.100 --> 00:21:38.622 get it to 40. 00:21:38.622 --> 00:21:47.269 Now, this is illegal, so we don't do it, but there is another method 00:21:47.269 --> 00:21:56.590 which is kind of interesting. It basically uses the same principle, just it's not 00:21:56.590 --> 00:22:02.510 separate boiling points, but separate freezing points. And then, to use this, 00:22:02.510 --> 00:22:09.480 you put alcohol -maybe red wine - into a plastic bottle, put it into your freezer, 00:22:09.480 --> 00:22:15.039 let it freeze through, and then you turn it around, and the first stuff that will 00:22:15.039 --> 00:22:22.990 drop out is alcohol. Kind of an interesting picture is this here, because 00:22:22.990 --> 00:22:31.020 we have liquid dropping down, which is so cold that the condensation on the other 00:22:31.020 --> 00:22:37.490 vessel freezes. So, we know the liquid is something with a freezing point well below 00:22:37.490 --> 00:22:43.659 the freezing point of water. If you measure this, you'll see that the output 00:22:43.659 --> 00:22:56.299 has something between 20% or 40% when starting with a red wine of 10%, so it 00:22:56.299 --> 00:23:02.630 really works. And I found it kind of interesting, because - except some crazy 00:23:02.630 --> 00:23:07.430 guy in Bavaria -, I don't know of anybody actually using that. And that guy uses it 00:23:07.430 --> 00:23:14.269 to the create world's strongest beer with like 58% and it's still legally beer 00:23:14.269 --> 00:23:18.149 because of German laws. Laughter 00:23:18.149 --> 00:23:28.049 Here we see... That's the stuff that stayed in the bottle, after it unfroze. 00:23:28.049 --> 00:23:33.840 And that's the stuff that dripped out below, so if you put a light behind it, 00:23:33.840 --> 00:23:41.850 you see that's the one side is much darker, so apparently the pigment is 00:23:41.850 --> 00:23:50.429 soluble in alcohol. It's just an interesting fact we saw, too. Well, that's 00:23:50.429 --> 00:23:57.250 what we did. So in conclusion, it's totally possible to build a non-functional 00:23:57.250 --> 00:24:04.740 model of a still with hardware-store parts. Running this... risks exist, but 00:24:04.740 --> 00:24:09.650 are manageable. Watch out for proper cooling; with such a cooler, it's just... 00:24:09.650 --> 00:24:16.940 make sure that there is water in it before you start it. Methanol poisoning can be 00:24:16.940 --> 00:24:27.580 prevented by using a clean mash like mash you'd drink unstilled. And discarding the 00:24:27.580 --> 00:24:36.000 first 15 ml. And if you had something like this and say you tried to still whisky, 00:24:36.000 --> 00:24:43.559 you should look out for foaming, because if you try to run it too fast, maybe the 00:24:43.559 --> 00:24:51.639 mash would foam up and clog your still and it'd be bad. So yeah, don't do that. In 00:24:51.639 --> 00:24:55.830 conclusion, it's great fun... theoretically. 00:24:55.830 --> 00:25:00.380 Laughter And yes, do not do this. It's illegal. 00:25:00.380 --> 00:25:02.140 Thank you. 00:25:02.140 --> 00:25:11.390 Applause 00:25:11.390 --> 00:25:17.549 H: What a fabulous, practical introduction. So we have now five minutes 00:25:17.549 --> 00:25:25.380 for Q and A... Everybody who wants to ask a question please go to the microphones, 00:25:25.380 --> 00:25:35.799 and please stay in the room for this five minutes. If there are any... Keep in mind, 00:25:35.799 --> 00:25:42.389 this time everybody has to go out on this side. So is there any question in the 00:25:42.389 --> 00:25:42.639 room? Microphone 1 please. 00:25:42.639 --> 00:25:50.019 Mic1: Yes, thank you for the talk. Thank 00:25:50.019 --> 00:25:57.630 you for the ideas. Do you know how the legal aspects are in Switzerland? 00:25:57.630 --> 00:26:00.869 Restrained laughter 00:26:00.869 --> 00:26:06.049 Stefan (S): In Switzerland you guys are 00:26:06.049 --> 00:26:10.049 actually quite well off, because you are allowed to have small stills until the 00:26:10.049 --> 00:26:18.120 capacity of 5 litres. We have until the end of the 2070ies that 0.5 l, which is 00:26:18.120 --> 00:26:24.360 basically useless. You can try it once, but for each run you get maybe a shot of 00:26:24.360 --> 00:26:30.639 usable liquor. In Switzerland, you have 5 l and then you get at least some... yeah, 00:26:30.639 --> 00:26:36.039 200 ml of usable spirits, and this is actually fun to tinker with. This is 00:26:36.039 --> 00:26:40.659 something you and your fellows can, well, have a decent evening. 00:26:40.659 --> 00:26:45.470 H: Microphone 5. Mic5: Yeah, so... When I saw the 00:26:45.470 --> 00:26:50.409 electronics, that's usually not so safe to drink from lead and everything. So, do you 00:26:50.409 --> 00:26:55.649 have any tips for how to solder, so it's safe for drinking? 00:26:55.649 --> 00:27:04.989 W: Yeah, I forgot to mention it, we used lead free solder. That's a really great 00:27:04.989 --> 00:27:12.590 comment of you. And I looked it up and solder, you can find it in the hardware 00:27:12.590 --> 00:27:18.703 store next to the copper tubes that is lead-free. But check that to be sure. 00:27:18.703 --> 00:27:22.619 You don't want lead into your spirits. 00:27:22.619 --> 00:27:24.059 H: Microphone 1. 00:27:24.059 --> 00:27:30.710 Mic1: Would you do the cooling per air flow instead of water? 00:27:30.710 --> 00:27:39.000 W: I've seen online some people who did that with a construction that looked kind 00:27:39.000 --> 00:27:45.909 of like a CPU cooler attached to something which had the vaporized alcohol run 00:27:45.909 --> 00:27:56.899 through it. I mean, it'd be illegal to try, so I haven't and... But this guy 00:27:56.899 --> 00:28:03.890 apparently has and it worked for him, so.. Yeah. But I don't know how you'd 00:28:03.890 --> 00:28:10.110 construct the copper block which you attach to the CPU cooler, so there's that. 00:28:10.110 --> 00:28:16.669 S: I've seen silver etchings in really, really old manuscripts that were using 00:28:16.669 --> 00:28:22.570 just air to cool down, but... well, that's technology 500 years ago that says "Yeah, 00:28:22.570 --> 00:28:25.778 use water." 00:28:25.778 --> 00:28:27.450 H: Microphone 5. 00:28:27.450 --> 00:28:37.889 Mic5: You showed the glass part still and you said this could not be purchased after 00:28:37.889 --> 00:28:44.100 the 1st of January, right? But if you just purchase the single parts, because it's 00:28:44.100 --> 00:28:48.179 standard lab equipment, is this also illegal? 00:28:48.179 --> 00:28:52.529 S: Yes, I mean, you don't purchase a still per se, do you? 00:28:52.529 --> 00:28:55.659 Mic5: Exactly, it's standard glass... S: I don't think this is gonna be a 00:28:55.659 --> 00:29:01.429 problem, but, you know there's laboratory equipments and they sell you a still made 00:29:01.429 --> 00:29:08.799 from glass for training distillation... And this costs some 250 euros and they 00:29:08.799 --> 00:29:14.960 sell you the same exact part this still is made of for cheaper. So basically, order 3 00:29:14.960 --> 00:29:19.809 or times...3 or 4 times different equipment parts, maybe from different... 00:29:19.809 --> 00:29:24.720 And...I mean, this is ridiculous. Really, it is. 00:29:24.720 --> 00:29:26.559 Mic5: Thanks. 00:29:26.559 --> 00:29:27.919 H: Okay, Mikrophone 1. 00:29:27.919 --> 00:29:32.720 Mic1: Yeah, hi. Thank you for your theoretical explanation. I have one 00:29:32.720 --> 00:29:35.700 question but first I just wanted to mention, that you can build all this 00:29:35.700 --> 00:29:41.640 without programming. You can buy a physical thing to measure the temperature, 00:29:41.640 --> 00:29:46.850 so if anybody is afraid because of that part. And than yeah, my question is there 00:29:46.850 --> 00:29:52.690 a reason why you don't use or just mentioned, turbo yeast, stuff like 00:29:52.690 --> 00:29:58.880 that where you can reach 20 percents in two days. Is it not that tasty or stuff? 00:29:58.880 --> 00:30:04.700 N: Yeah, I think actually we just used the first one, we got hands on, didn't we? 00:30:04.700 --> 00:30:10.440 For the first experiments. I mean, you could try it but then you always have, it has 00:30:10.440 --> 00:30:13.821 negative parts, so... maybe it's the taste, maybe it's something else. 00:30:13.821 --> 00:30:19.637 But I mean, I wouldn't claim that you achieve high quality taste with 00:30:19.637 --> 00:30:21.652 what we just showed. 00:30:21.652 --> 00:30:24.850 S: I can answer one part for the 00:30:24.850 --> 00:30:30.019 "Abfindungsbrennerei", you could use turbo yeast, but turbo yeast is something... 00:30:30.019 --> 00:30:34.919 I'm not really sure about the translation. It is called "Hefenährsalze" which is salts, 00:30:34.919 --> 00:30:38.975 that you need, to actually have an environment for this turbo yeast. And these 00:30:38.975 --> 00:30:42.964 "Hefenährsalze" are unfortunely not allowed in "Abfindungsbrennerei". 00:30:42.964 --> 00:30:47.820 So usally you don't...you don't use turbo yeast and you don't actually need it for 00:30:47.820 --> 00:30:52.090 fruit spirits. It's okay, if you want to make grain spirits but you know the higher 00:30:52.090 --> 00:30:59.010 the yeast ferments the less taste and scent remains in the destillate. 00:30:59.010 --> 00:31:03.129 So we won't have taste otherwise we could just buy vodka in the store. 00:31:03.129 --> 00:31:09.749 H: Okay, Mikrophone 5, please. Mic5: Thanks again for your talk. 00:31:09.749 --> 00:31:15.889 Regarding the cooling. Is it necessary to cool it with room temperature water or why 00:31:15.889 --> 00:31:23.440 not chuck in some ice cubes or crushed ice to keep the temperature lower or hinder 00:31:23.440 --> 00:31:26.429 the rising of the temperature in the cooling vessel? 00:31:26.429 --> 00:31:32.259 W: Well let's say we had run this hypothetical operation in our minds 00:31:32.259 --> 00:31:38.160 multiple times. Maybe the first time we had tried it with ice cubes and then 00:31:38.160 --> 00:31:47.080 started exchanging the water. Maybe we had a few times thought about running it and 00:31:47.080 --> 00:31:52.759 using just tap water and exchanging the tap water multiple times. And then maybe 00:31:52.759 --> 00:31:59.289 in our minds one time we forgot to change the water and it still would have worked, 00:31:59.289 --> 00:32:07.640 so we made up all further operations just with a bucket of water and not changing 00:32:07.640 --> 00:32:13.279 it, so yeah. Point is, that's the easiest way and it works. 00:32:13.279 --> 00:32:17.850 M5: Excellent. H: And I saw there is some question from 00:32:17.850 --> 00:32:20.850 the internet. Signal angel: Exactly. The internet wants 00:32:20.850 --> 00:32:29.950 to know if there is a limit or a legal limit to the freeze destilation of the ice 00:32:29.950 --> 00:32:35.330 rifing process? W: I tried to look it up, but I didn't 00:32:35.330 --> 00:32:43.889 find anything about it. So, maybe there is a thing that if you... 00:32:43.889 --> 00:32:50.440 Let's just stay with the beer guy from Bavaria. The customs actually have a page 00:32:50.440 --> 00:32:58.749 about producing beer at home. You can do that legally in Germany and the first 100 00:32:58.749 --> 00:33:04.960 liters are tax free, so you can just do that. So, yeah, then you have 100 liters 00:33:04.960 --> 00:33:09.610 of beer and you start concentrating them and when you are done with that it gets 00:33:09.610 --> 00:33:16.549 complicated. So, I guess that's the limit. And then that guy probably just taxes the 00:33:16.549 --> 00:33:21.600 further beer and that's how he does it. N: But then you don't have to register 00:33:21.600 --> 00:33:26.250 your freezer at the tax office so maybe people won't be that eager to check. 00:33:26.250 --> 00:33:31.230 H: Ok then the last two questions, Microphone 1. 00:33:31.230 --> 00:33:36.980 Mic1: Okay, so my question is about the freezing method as well. What is about the 00:33:36.980 --> 00:33:41.539 methanol for the freezing method. Is there some way to get rid of this, or is it 00:33:41.539 --> 00:33:47.519 really unnecessary? W: Well, as I said the stuff in the 00:33:47.519 --> 00:33:54.350 pictures was red wine from Aldi because you don't experiment with expensive stuff. 00:33:54.350 --> 00:34:03.570 And if I drink a whole bottle of Aldi red wine, nothing bad happens to me. So I 00:34:03.570 --> 00:34:08.260 guess if I take any part of a bottle of red wine from Aldi, nothing bad will 00:34:08.260 --> 00:34:10.180 happen, too. So there's that. 00:34:10.180 --> 00:34:15.470 Mic1: So there shouldn't be methanol in the orginal stuff. 00:34:15.470 --> 00:34:20.588 A: There probably will be but less enough so that it's not a problem. 00:34:20.588 --> 00:34:22.150 H: Okay. 00:34:22.150 --> 00:34:27.540 S:The thing about the methanol is, if I'm allowed to add, methanol comes from the 00:34:27.540 --> 00:34:32.962 pectines. Pectines are basically the building substance of the cells. 00:34:32.962 --> 00:34:39.020 But if you have juice or wine we already pressed it down and the pectins stay in the stuff 00:34:39.020 --> 00:34:45.750 we throw away and so in the juice and in the wine that we cool down so there is 00:34:45.750 --> 00:34:51.400 very little methanol in it. That is different if we make a mash and have all 00:34:51.400 --> 00:34:56.102 the cell residue still in the mash, then we have the methanol in this mash. 00:34:56.110 --> 00:34:59.042 And so we have it in the destillate. 00:34:59.042 --> 00:35:02.070 H: Okay, the last question, microphone one please. 00:35:02.070 --> 00:35:08.605 Mic1: Hi. Thanks for a great talk. My questions are around the head, hearts and tail, 00:35:08.605 --> 00:35:13.190 the hacked distilling method that, I gather, you pretty much did 00:35:13.190 --> 00:35:17.200 what you took for second third, fourth part of it, and you divided 00:35:17.200 --> 00:35:23.940 it up like that. But in the craft distillery, how do you do to use it, but 00:35:23.940 --> 00:35:29.100 controlling the temperature of the evaporation and the stilling liquid, or 00:35:29.100 --> 00:35:33.889 do you also do it by breaking into segments? What's the technique you used to separate? 00:35:33.889 --> 00:35:37.100 S: There's actually many roads that lead 00:35:37.100 --> 00:35:42.330 to Rome. So you could basically use this fractioning method that there was 00:35:42.330 --> 00:35:47.355 described here that you just take one liter and one liter and one liter and then you check it 00:35:47.355 --> 00:35:53.200 by smelling and tasting, if it's okay, or if it's not. And then the other way is, 00:35:53.200 --> 00:35:58.520 for example, temperature control. So if you buy a modern still from an experienced 00:35:58.520 --> 00:36:04.470 copper smith, this is made with any types of sensors and that are telling you the 00:36:04.470 --> 00:36:08.240 temperatures, the flow, the alcohol content. So you can basically program your 00:36:08.240 --> 00:36:14.400 still to automatically cut the foreshots and the aftershots. So this is another 00:36:14.400 --> 00:36:19.620 way. Then you could, for example, distill once or twice, and with the first 00:36:19.620 --> 00:36:24.140 distillation, just take every alcohol that's coming out and then collect this 00:36:24.140 --> 00:36:29.380 first run, and then redistill it, and then make your cuts for the heads and the 00:36:29.380 --> 00:36:32.900 tails. And you can make it otherwise it can cut the head and tails in the first 00:36:32.900 --> 00:36:39.780 run, and then just basically concentrate in the redistillation. So there's many 00:36:39.780 --> 00:36:44.020 roads that lead to Rome and you're just gonna find out your way that suits you 00:36:44.020 --> 00:36:52.480 best. But if you start, I would take the fracturing, the fracturing method. Yes. 00:36:52.480 --> 00:36:56.850 Mic1: What was your run, your still on? What technique did you use for your 00:36:56.850 --> 00:37:00.574 business, your still? 00:37:00.574 --> 00:37:04.880 S: You mean my still at home? The craft still that I get on the...? 00:37:04.880 --> 00:37:07.385 Yeah, this is experience. 00:37:07.385 --> 00:37:09.875 So we know the first 1.5 liters is foreshots, 00:37:09.875 --> 00:37:14.577 so we collect those and then we redistill them again. But. Yeah. 00:37:14.577 --> 00:37:20.770 At some time my great-grandfather, most probably found out the way and he taught them 00:37:20.770 --> 00:37:26.414 his son and his son. And I know that I didn't need to get rid of 1.5l of foreshots. 00:37:26.414 --> 00:37:28.800 Mic1: Thank you. S: You are welcome. 00:37:28.800 --> 00:37:33.138 H: Then at the end of this double feature, I expect a very big 00:37:33.138 --> 00:37:41.573 warm applause for Franziska, Andreas, and Stefan 00:37:41.573 --> 00:37:46.320 Applause 00:37:46.320 --> 00:38:11.000 subtitles created by c3subtitles.de in the year 2019. Join, and help us!