WEBVTT
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preroll music
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Herald: Good afternoon everyone. As you
all know this is going to be an
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interesting talk for sure. It is titled
Sense Without Sight. Our next speaker is
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Sai and without too much ado please give
him a big round of applause.
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He's going to be here shortly.
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Applause
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Sai: So you might be thinking that I am
Daredevil. I'm not sadly. Well, probably
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better for my health. And I do not have
any magic powers, unfortunately. I just
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have extra disabilities that make it
harder for me. Nevertheless -
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one two back - yay live demos! dum di dum
where did that move?
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Angel: Are you going to fall off stage?
Sai: No I'm not going to fall off stage.
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Angel: Because you're right at, you're
going to be falling soon.
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Sai: No I can walk around without my cane.
It's a little hard to precisely target it,
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but as you can see I don't fall off stage.
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So just to make this clearer, I am not
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faking this. And the way you can tell is I
have a blindfold on. This blindfold is for
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real. This is a sleep mask. I can't see
anything right now. So you don't need to
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ask how good my sight is or why,
because I can't see.
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The issue that I have is light blindness.
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Basically I can see if it's
really dark and I can't see if it's really
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bright, and lights that are as bright as
the lights here actually hurt my eyes,
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kind of, right now through the blindfold.
So I definitely would not be able to do
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this with my eyes open and my glasses off.
I do a lot of different things. Blindness
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is not one of them. On my shirt, and my
slides, and my website, there's all sorts
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of stuff that we can talk about. Let's
please talk about that stuff, not the fact
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that I'm blind. Except during this talk or
during my workshops when you're - it's
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okay to ask questions about that or talk
about that. Exception is if you want to
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work with me on stuff or if you have
feedback I welcome that. But let's talk
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about something else like how to analyze a
few terabytes of court data. Anyway!
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I have assistants for this talk. One of
them is what I'm going to be calling the
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"helpful asshole" aka my herald.
Herald: You're welcome.
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Sai: Come up. I also have Bit. Bit, where
are you?
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Bit: Here!
Sai: Good! And I have someone running
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slides for me because obviously I can't
see my own slides. Fortunately for you
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that means I'm not giving the talk like
this to do to do what I've just talked
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about. Yeah it is okay to make sound. If
anything it's helpful because it I can
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hear where you are. So you might wonder
how I walked onto stage without my cane.
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I'm going to go over that in a second but
first, the cane is really, really useful.
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So it gives me a number of things. For
instance, right here, you might not notice
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it, but there is a difference in the
floor. There is this carpeted section here
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and there's this wood section here...
different knocking sounds
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Right? Now if I just brush this with my
feet I can feel it. And that's how I
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walked on stage. But if I do it with my
cane - hear that whack?
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slinging and whacking sounds
You can say yes in response to questions.
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You hear that wack?
Audience: Yes!
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Sai: So even if I'm lightly walking I just
keep that out at a known degree and I can
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easily walk alongside of it. I can also
feel the texture. So one thing you may not
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notice but may as well try now is that the
texture of the carpet under your feet -
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under your feet, the people who are
live in this audience - I don't know
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about you people at home, sorry. But this
stage I have checked out and it is
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smoother from the front of stage to the
back of stage and is smoother from the
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right of stage to the left stage. And I
believe that's true for most of the floor
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and the audience but it's made out of
separate squares. So some of them may be
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oriented in a different way so feel with
your feet, for real, like right now, feel.
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and feel if you can see if you can feel
which way it's smooth and which way it's
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rough. With the cane, when I drag it like
this, it's smoother, when I drag like
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this, it resists, and especially if I'm
holding it like this with a firmer grip -
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this is nice and smooth. This way it sort
of resists, it bends the cane a little bit.
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What else. There's sound, so
something I can do really well with a cane
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that's hard to do with my feet but I can
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stomping
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I can do that. But I can also do this
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sharp whacking sounds
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so...
lower pitched whacking
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that those two sound completely
different, right?
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different whacking sounds
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In fact...
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whacking sound changes again
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Here the stage is not hollow underneath.
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Here it's firmer and then
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whacking sound changes dramatically
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suddenly it's echo-y.
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alternating whacking sounds
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Right? So that helps me tell
just sort of what ground I'm on.
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Similarly, actually in the front of the
stage. So
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different whacking sounds
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and then near - sorry about your mic
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the stage edge,
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whacking
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it's really sort of
resistant, whereas
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more solid sounds
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there, it's got much more
of an echo to it.
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One thing this is very useful for is
echolocation. I am not a bat but it is the
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same principle. There are some people who
are much much much better than I am about
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echolocation. I'm not that good. But what
I can hear, and what you can hear, and
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what you're going to try to hear right
now, is the size of the room. So I'm going
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to whack the stage with my cane. What I
want you to do is while I'm doing it,
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close your eyes. You're not going to miss
anything. The slide's not going to change.
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I'm just here. So close your eyes and move
your head from side to side as I do it.
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And you can even sort of look behind you,
and listen for the sound of the size of
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the room. You'll be able to hear how large
the room is around you and you'll hear the
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echo of my cane from the back of the room.
Kill the PA for a sec.
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whack
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whack
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whack
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whack
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whack
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Right?
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whack
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PA!
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more whacks
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OK so that's a simple version. Another
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version is these stage curtains. How do I
not faceplant into them. Well there's a
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few ways. For one, I can just run into it
with my cane.
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speaker feedback noise
That's the speaker, sorry about that. And
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that is curtain, nice and soft. There are
several other things about this I'm going
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to show in a bit, but also if I'm - sorry
about the speaker - if I'm walking through
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this and I walk through the side curtain,
sort of behind.
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whacking
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Huh, they've added extra stuff
to the stage. Yay!
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whacking
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It absorbs the sound when I am tapping
near it
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there's that.
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Bit, where are you?
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Bit: Looks like you're lost, you need some help?
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Sai: Sorry?
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Bit: Do you need some help? Looks like
you're lost.
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Sai: Thank you dear angel. No I do know
where I am. So my dear signal angel, my
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herald is representing that person who is
trying to be helpful to me several times a
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day, and kind of annoys me, or ranges from
annoying to actually dangerous.
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I obviously know where I am because I'm
navigating the stage is just fine, and you
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saw me walk on without even my cane. So
thank you. But no, I don't need
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directions. Bit!
Bit: Here! Howdy!
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Sai: So with someone who's right next to
you like this, how do I - how can I tell
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that he's there. I'm not touching him with
the cane, although I can and I do. So if I
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whack you in the ankle: sorry but that's
how I can tell you're there, especially if
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you're standing really quiet. It's really
hard to tell that someone's there and
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especially in a crowd like this. So yes
I'm going to hit you in the ankle, too bad.
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That's how I can tell you're there.
But in this distance I can feel his body
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heat radiating. So from about this
distance away, meh. From this distance, I
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can definitely feel it on the back of my
arm. There is his shoulder, there's his
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cheek. So actually I would like you to try
doing that. So turn to the person who's
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next to you, ask their consent first. I
have asked Bit's consent for everything
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that we're going to do. And what I would
like you to do is put your hand up next to
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them. Try to almost touch their cheek
without quite touching their cheek. And
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then deliberately do so. So almost, but
not quite, just by the heat, with your
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eyes closed, and then trade off.
Yeah, go ahead!
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audience murmurs, giggles
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light whacks
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So another place that I feel this is on
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walls. This wall for instance, the front
of the stage, there is actually wind
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coming through these little holes in them.
That wind is colder than the ambient
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temperature of the room. If I get my arm
really close to it, then at about this
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distance, I feel the cold air from it, and
then at about that distance, there's
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actually sort of a sheet wind that is
really tight close to the wall and then,
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there my hair - the hairs on the back of
my arm tingle, and there, I can touch it.
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So we have people who are in the audience
on scooters and such. They're going to
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drive through the aisles. I want you to
close your eyes and see if you can feel
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the wind generated by
them moving past you,
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and also the sound.
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rhythmic rumbling
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Some of them are louder than others.
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So you feel how when they pass you there's
a breeze in their wake. This happens a lot
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in Congress. There are lots of people on
scooters and hover boards and motorized
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couches or whatever - gods know what
people motorized around here. Or it's
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someone just walking really fast like me.
They all generate a wind in their wake.
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Another thing you'll notice in Congress is
- there's these nice tunnels. So for
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instance from CCL to Hall 2, there's this
tunnel through the glass hall. When you
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walk through, the wind characteristics of
the room completely change. You start
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feeling a crosswind. So if I'm walking
this way and the tunnel is on my right
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then suddenly I will feel a crosswind from
the tunnel that is colder and wasn't there
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before. Similarly with the wall there's
just sort of stops. Next?
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Oh yeah. So...
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everyone please close your eyes. And I do
mean everyone. Not the audio angels or the
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video angels. But everyone in the audience
please close your eyes. If your phone
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number ends with the number 1 please move
your arms in such a way as to make some
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wind. If your phone number doesn't end in
the number 1, point to the person who's
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making some wind. I can't see you so I'm
not going to judge you.
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So do you feel that? Yes? No?
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Audience: No.
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How about people whose phone number ends
in 1 stop, people whose phone number ends
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in 4 make some wind like wave your arm in
front of you.
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Feel that? Try pointing to them.
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Not the people who ends in 4, you
can point to yourselves, I guess.
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People whose number ends in 7.
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So that's movement. When
people move by you, it
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generates wind. When there is a tunnel and
there's an air differential, like the air
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under this stage is colder. And that's why
there's a wind out of it. Actually -
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du bi dub di dub
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Herald: Let me hold your
hand and get that for you.
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Sai: Ah, thanks.
00:20:23.610 --> 00:20:28.320
Herald: No? You're good? You're sure?
Sai: Yeah, let go of me please!
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Sai: Oh yay! More stuff.
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cane hitting wall and railing
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So down here
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whacking
00:21:17.668 --> 00:21:28.169
If open the door and I walk past it,
there is this crosswind, I was mentioning
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a second ago, about the tunnel. So here
there's a sort of flat to my right and
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then here I walk a little bit forward.
Suddenly there is this crosswind
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from that opening. Similarly when people
were biking by you, you could tell that.
00:21:49.380 --> 00:21:52.670
Similarly if I crack my cane
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whacking
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I don't know if you can hear that very
well, but try. There's...
00:22:03.070 --> 00:22:06.780
barely audible whacking
00:22:06.780 --> 00:22:10.620
there's a sound off to that side
00:22:10.620 --> 00:22:16.760
that sort of ends at the door. And then
if I knock my cane here
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whacking
00:22:19.590 --> 00:22:26.000
there's a little reflection
through that door.
00:22:26.500 --> 00:22:29.160
And yes I do know how
to close a door.
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I know, amazing!
00:22:36.870 --> 00:22:38.630
Similarly for these walls
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I can feel the
00:22:50.800 --> 00:22:57.040
that I'm close to the wall, or not.
Tingley, not tingley.
00:22:57.980 --> 00:22:59.355
What's next.
00:23:19.223 --> 00:23:30.470
Yes. So yeah you've added
more random crap.
00:23:30.470 --> 00:23:32.169
Herald: Can I move these chairs for you,
so you can...
00:23:32.169 --> 00:23:35.520
Sai: Uh, no, please.
Herald: Would that be helpful?
00:23:35.520 --> 00:23:40.530
Sai: Sometimes that would be helpful. But
at the moment not so much, because if you
00:23:40.530 --> 00:23:48.930
were to move it when I've already found
where it is, then suddenly it wouldn't be
00:23:48.930 --> 00:23:57.750
there any more, and it'd be hard for me to
orient. One of the things that is
00:23:57.750 --> 00:24:05.070
difficult about being blind is you have to
have quite a lot of memory. So the things
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that you probably don't notice because you
outsource your memory is how much of the
00:24:15.850 --> 00:24:21.850
environment around you changes. So ask a
blind person they probably hate
00:24:21.850 --> 00:24:27.280
construction work.
audience laughs
00:24:27.280 --> 00:24:41.100
I do. And if I try to go sit down for
instance for that matter - there's a chair
00:24:41.100 --> 00:24:53.890
- if this had moved a lot, it would be
really hard for me to take a seat. Now, he
00:24:53.890 --> 00:25:04.250
doesn't smell that bad, but some people
have a pretty significant smell, because
00:25:04.250 --> 00:25:12.710
they're wearing perfume or cologne or Axe
or something like that. If you've ever
00:25:12.710 --> 00:25:18.200
been in a public transit terminal and
you've taken the elevator, maybe you know
00:25:18.200 --> 00:25:29.850
the distinct aroma of the elevator in
public transit. Definitely lets you know
00:25:29.850 --> 00:25:43.450
you're in New York City. So the next
group, start moving. So my assistants in
00:25:43.450 --> 00:25:52.201
the audience are moving through the aisles
with something in their hands. What I want
00:25:52.201 --> 00:26:01.891
you to do is close your eyes. Smell, feel
the wind current, smell what is it, point
00:26:01.910 --> 00:26:04.775
to them. You point exactly where they are.
00:26:08.077 --> 00:26:10.585
Hhm, yummy orange.
00:26:15.837 --> 00:26:18.160
So now I'm really hungry.
00:26:20.190 --> 00:26:24.870
So if I'm walking past a coffee
shop for instance, it has a distinct
00:26:24.870 --> 00:26:31.780
smell, smells like coffee, shockingly enough.
A drugstore smells like alcohol and
00:26:31.780 --> 00:26:40.270
cleaning solution. A clothing store smells
like leather and this weird perfume that
00:26:40.270 --> 00:26:47.270
they put in clothing stores for some
reason. I don't know why, but they do. And
00:26:47.270 --> 00:26:50.913
if you ever visit one hopefully you'll
notice it now.
00:26:53.379 --> 00:26:57.062
So let's see, next? Huh?
00:27:04.125 --> 00:27:09.679
Ah, right! Dear asshole, you know your
lines?
00:27:09.679 --> 00:27:11.529
Herald: [inaudible]
00:27:14.609 --> 00:27:18.610
Sai: Bit! Do you have your blindfold on?
00:27:18.610 --> 00:27:22.100
Bit: Uh, no.
Sai: Please do.
00:27:22.100 --> 00:27:25.840
Bit: I don't have one.
Sai: I don't have an extra one.
00:27:25.840 --> 00:27:27.090
Bit: [inaudible]
00:27:27.090 --> 00:27:30.230
Sai: laughs
Did you move his blindfold also?
00:27:34.200 --> 00:27:35.670
Bit: [inaudible]
00:27:38.420 --> 00:27:40.460
Sai: Shall I lend you mine?
00:27:42.610 --> 00:27:44.850
Bit: [inaudible]
00:27:51.615 --> 00:27:57.200
Sai: Ah, that get's bright! Ow.
00:27:59.380 --> 00:28:04.890
So if you are going to try to
help someone navigate.
00:28:04.890 --> 00:28:10.062
First off say would you like some help.
00:28:10.067 --> 00:28:13.294
Bit: So I'm pretty confused now,
so, yes, please!
00:28:13.960 --> 00:28:15.220
laughter
00:28:16.790 --> 00:28:24.240
Sai: So don't just randomly assault
people. Just because I have a cane does
00:28:24.240 --> 00:28:31.490
not mean it's cool to assault me. Then if
you're going to touch them, do so with the
00:28:31.490 --> 00:28:37.100
back of your hand. This way he knows I'm
not just randomly grabbing him and yanking
00:28:37.100 --> 00:28:43.530
him around. That's really annoying. So I
can offer you my arm. We can walk. Let's
00:28:43.530 --> 00:28:45.610
go have a seat.
00:28:45.610 --> 00:28:47.830
laughter
00:28:53.730 --> 00:28:58.860
Here we go. That's your seat. Now some
people will like grab the hand and put it
00:28:58.860 --> 00:29:03.989
down. Instead I can just say:
here's a chair.
00:29:06.758 --> 00:29:07.826
Ta da!
00:29:10.919 --> 00:29:13.559
So follow me for a sec.
00:29:13.559 --> 00:29:16.672
Can I have a sidewalk beep in the back?
00:29:18.044 --> 00:29:21.769
scratching
00:29:23.539 --> 00:29:27.138
So let's do a little crack.
00:29:27.573 --> 00:29:30.006
whackwhack
00:29:30.194 --> 00:29:33.150
Do you hear the back of the
room, where that is?
00:29:35.910 --> 00:29:38.120
Bit: Can you do it once more?
00:29:38.185 --> 00:29:39.185
whack
00:29:45.520 --> 00:29:50.880
Bit: I think it's in front of me, a bit to
the right, maybe.
00:29:50.880 --> 00:29:59.100
Sai: So one thing you really don't want to
do when someone is possibly trying to
00:29:59.100 --> 00:30:06.590
figure out their orientation is to
randomly come up to them and grab them,
00:30:06.590 --> 00:30:17.280
and pull them. Dear asshole?
Herald: Yes please? Can I help you,
00:30:17.280 --> 00:30:24.049
can I take you somewhere?
Sai: Let's pretend that you think he
00:30:24.049 --> 00:30:30.401
wants to go down the stairs. He thinks
he wants to walk towards the audience.
00:30:30.401 --> 00:30:33.000
Let's walk towards the
audience a little bit.
00:30:33.000 --> 00:30:35.080
Herald: So here the stairs are this way.
00:30:35.080 --> 00:30:36.230
Yeah.
00:30:37.250 --> 00:30:38.850
laughter
00:30:39.900 --> 00:30:41.810
Sai: OK, pause for a sec.
00:30:42.220 --> 00:30:43.740
Herald: ... for the stairs.
Bit: No, not.. really not.
00:30:43.740 --> 00:30:46.840
Herald: I'm pretty sure you are. You look
lost!
00:30:46.840 --> 00:30:50.160
Bit: I'm trying to go elsewhere.
Sai: Yeah, fuck off please!
00:30:50.430 --> 00:30:51.980
laughter
00:30:54.610 --> 00:30:57.346
Sai: Now, Bit, can you please point to the
back of the room?
00:31:01.765 --> 00:31:05.070
Yeah, not quite is it.
00:31:07.350 --> 00:31:09.190
This is what happens when you mess with
00:31:09.190 --> 00:31:16.340
someone's orientation. Please don't be that
asshole. So if you want to be helpful you
00:31:16.340 --> 00:31:21.909
can be helpful, you can be nice. Say:
"shall I lead you back to the chairs now?"
00:31:21.909 --> 00:31:28.020
"Would you like a hand?" They hold you,
you don't hold them, and then you can lead
00:31:28.020 --> 00:31:46.280
them back to the chairs. There we go. Have
a seat. May I have my blindfold back?
00:31:46.280 --> 00:31:52.860
Bit: Yeah.
Sai: You can tell this is improvised. And
00:31:52.860 --> 00:32:01.970
here I am again walking without my cane on
the crack. So it's not just a party trick,
00:32:01.970 --> 00:32:05.776
as I'll show in a sec. Next.
00:32:13.954 --> 00:32:20.540
Yeah, right.
So, some of you may have the response of
00:32:20.540 --> 00:32:37.320
thinking, "oh wow Sai can walk across the
stage, or talk or make decisions". I wish
00:32:37.320 --> 00:32:44.320
I were kidding but that does happen pretty
regularly. Can we clear the stuff off the
00:32:44.320 --> 00:32:55.510
stage, please? So instead of that, I'd
like to show you something that actually
00:32:55.510 --> 00:33:07.750
does involve a little bit of skill. Namely
about a decade worth of aikido. For those
00:33:07.750 --> 00:33:15.150
of you who don't know, aikido is a martial
art from Japan. Anne?
00:33:15.150 --> 00:33:24.630
Anne: Yes!
Sai: So I've spent about five years or so
00:33:24.630 --> 00:33:37.340
learning to use a cane. Anne has spent
well more than that doing aikido and is a
00:33:37.340 --> 00:33:43.630
second degree black belt. I am not!
However I'm wearing a blindfold and she is
00:33:43.630 --> 00:33:54.690
not. So what I want to demonstrate for you
is how I can tell that she's about to grab
00:33:54.690 --> 00:34:02.820
my hand. So there is the sound of the feet
on the ground making this sort of sound.
00:34:02.820 --> 00:34:08.119
There is the hand approaching me,
the wind,
00:34:08.119 --> 00:34:12.569
there the vibration as
her hips sort of rotate
00:34:12.569 --> 00:34:17.709
towards me with my slow fist attempt here.
00:34:17.709 --> 00:34:20.169
There I can tell she's
starting to lean back,
00:34:20.169 --> 00:34:23.692
and there, I put her to the ground.
00:34:26.570 --> 00:34:27.964
Again!
00:34:29.135 --> 00:34:33.149
So sound, movement, air flow, heat.
00:34:33.149 --> 00:34:40.830
Here is a nice little head, vibration,
wrist, the crook of the wrist.
00:34:43.922 --> 00:34:46.169
Full speed!
00:34:52.069 --> 00:35:02.180
So the blindfold hasn't come off. This
isn't magic. And again I'm not Daredevil.
00:35:02.180 --> 00:35:10.869
I just can't see. I didn't get extra super
special securing powers. My hearings is
00:35:10.869 --> 00:35:15.869
pretty good but it's no better than the
average person - I'm - it's actually a
00:35:15.869 --> 00:35:23.960
lot worse in the rain. So that thing it
isn't really a thing. So just to prove
00:35:23.960 --> 00:35:34.420
that it doesn't just work in this sort of
deliberately set up special thing, Anne is
00:35:34.420 --> 00:35:39.709
going to just attack me, however she
wants, and I'm going to
00:35:39.709 --> 00:35:41.097
throw her around a bit.
00:35:41.868 --> 00:35:42.868
laughter
00:35:52.760 --> 00:35:56.411
Note that I can still focus on her.
00:36:03.424 --> 00:36:05.383
I can still pin her if I want.
00:36:06.632 --> 00:36:07.716
laughs
00:36:17.320 --> 00:36:19.572
laughter
00:36:19.990 --> 00:36:24.320
applause
00:37:13.908 --> 00:37:19.558
applause
00:37:22.100 --> 00:37:27.579
And no, I didn't tell them what to do in
advance. That's real. Yes, I am a little
00:37:27.579 --> 00:37:40.969
bit out of breath. It's been a while since
I actually exercised. Well and again I'm
00:37:40.969 --> 00:37:49.440
still facing you, right? I haven't
forgotten where this line is. Between the
00:37:49.440 --> 00:38:02.900
wood and the carpet, and in fact I can
knock it with my ring. Sometimes against
00:38:02.900 --> 00:38:11.960
the wall is a little better to generate a
nice echo sound. So if you want to not be
00:38:11.960 --> 00:38:26.249
an asshole, please remember, first off,
ask! I may not want your help, or need it,
00:38:26.249 --> 00:38:33.380
and what you think may be helpful to me,
maybe, probably is, completely wrong. So
00:38:33.380 --> 00:38:40.619
listen to what I say and if I say, "yeah I
would like you to please, lead me to X."
00:38:40.619 --> 00:38:47.739
That does not mean grab my arm and start
dragging me to X. I prefer to follow
00:38:47.739 --> 00:38:52.930
people by sounds so I'm just going to tell
you to scuff your feet when you walk,
00:38:52.930 --> 00:38:59.979
scuffing
so I can follow you by sound, or to just
00:38:59.979 --> 00:39:12.499
keep talking. Some people do prefer to
follow by hand. Bit? So if it comes up and
00:39:12.499 --> 00:39:26.119
I want directions to the stage center,
lead me to say center, please. Ta da! Not
00:39:26.119 --> 00:39:37.789
that hard. If you are going to touch
someone like here, unless you know you've
00:39:37.789 --> 00:39:43.170
invited them to attack you because you're
going to do an aikido exercise, don't just
00:39:43.170 --> 00:39:51.619
randomly grab them and yank them around.
Touch them, say "hi my name is Sai, would
00:39:51.619 --> 00:39:55.650
you like some help?"
Bit: Hi Sai, I would. Thank you very much.
00:39:55.650 --> 00:40:00.079
And then you can offer, or you can say:
"what would you like." "Are you lost."
00:40:00.079 --> 00:40:05.609
Bit: Actually I'd like to go to your place
thanks.
00:40:05.609 --> 00:40:12.359
Sai: Maybe later.
laughter
00:40:12.359 --> 00:40:21.869
And one important thing to note. When
people do simulations of disabilities,
00:40:21.869 --> 00:40:32.500
they sometimes try to do it by just
pretending to be blind, or pretending to
00:40:32.500 --> 00:40:37.779
be in a wheelchair, or something. Like you
sit in a wheelchair for a day, and then
00:40:37.779 --> 00:40:44.339
you think, oh it must be so hard to be in
a wheelchair, because my arms hurt so
00:40:44.339 --> 00:40:50.739
much, and I couldn't figure out how to get
to the second floor. That's because you've
00:40:50.739 --> 00:40:55.859
done it for a day and someone who actually
uses a wheelchair has done it for probably
00:40:55.859 --> 00:41:00.989
years and years and years and has much
better arms than you do. And they know
00:41:00.989 --> 00:41:08.259
where everything is, and they know how to
get around. Similarly, I know how to get
00:41:08.259 --> 00:41:19.700
around without using my eyes. You don't.
If you just try to put a blindfold on and
00:41:19.700 --> 00:41:25.839
grab a cane, or let alone those blind
experience museums where they just put a
00:41:25.839 --> 00:41:30.249
blindfold on you, and don't give you a
cane, and have you walk around. I actually
00:41:30.249 --> 00:41:36.600
went to one once and they wanted to take
my cane away from me? Like hell no. That
00:41:36.600 --> 00:41:46.420
ain't happening. I actually lent it to my
partner so that my partner could not feel
00:41:46.420 --> 00:41:52.119
afraid of the surroundings of accidentally
walking into something or accidentally
00:41:52.119 --> 00:42:02.769
walking off - not a stage, but off a step
or something. So you don't know what you
00:42:02.769 --> 00:42:08.539
dont know. Most of the things I've showed
you in this talk you probably have never
00:42:08.539 --> 00:42:15.390
realized that there even a thing. Like
have you noticed how many different
00:42:15.390 --> 00:42:23.070
floorings there are in the mess hall? How
many different textures there are? How
00:42:23.070 --> 00:42:33.309
many different sounds there are, smells,
the wind, the ceiling heights. You
00:42:33.309 --> 00:42:40.199
probably don't pay attention to that. I do
and without the experience you're just not
00:42:40.199 --> 00:42:50.839
going to be able to learn that. That said,
I am teaching workshops. You're welcome to
00:42:50.839 --> 00:42:54.819
come to them if I saw the energy to run
them. One is going to be right after this
00:42:54.819 --> 00:43:01.759
talk and the rest to be determined. My
volunteers: can you please come up on
00:43:01.759 --> 00:43:10.680
stage if you're willing to be on camera.
This talk is complicated if you ask the
00:43:10.680 --> 00:43:21.430
35C3 content crew and the VOC crew and
everyone else. Kind of a pain to run
00:43:21.430 --> 00:43:28.020
something like this because I'm doing
stereo recording. That doesn't affect you
00:43:28.020 --> 00:43:34.039
in the audience live because the PAs are
mono, but hopefully those of you listening
00:43:34.039 --> 00:43:39.949
at home you've been listening to this with
stereo headphones on, and hopefully you'll
00:43:39.949 --> 00:43:44.640
hear it from my perspective what it's like
when I crack the cane, and you can hear
00:43:44.640 --> 00:43:47.210
the echo in the room.
00:43:47.210 --> 00:43:53.250
So thank you very much. Thank you very
much. Take a bow, please!
00:43:53.250 --> 00:44:03.390
applause
00:44:03.390 --> 00:44:08.889
Herald: Thank you Sai for a very
interesting talk! Questions?
00:44:08.889 --> 00:44:15.630
Sai: Can we have the Q&A slide please? So
if you have questions, and you're okay
00:44:15.630 --> 00:44:21.739
with being on camera, and possibly being
asked to come on stage so I can answer
00:44:21.739 --> 00:44:25.289
your question depending on what your
question is, please queue up to the camera
00:44:25.289 --> 00:44:29.410
that's on stage right. Otherwise there's
cameras or there's microphones...
00:44:29.410 --> 00:44:32.769
Herald: ...we can also do just plain
questions. If you don't want to come on
00:44:32.769 --> 00:44:37.359
stage, you can just answer questions from
any one of the four microphones in the room.
00:44:37.359 --> 00:44:39.179
Sai: Bit?
00:44:42.269 --> 00:44:44.529
So first question from
microphone number 2.
00:44:44.529 --> 00:44:48.719
Sai: Which one is 2?
Herald: It's for that person asking.
00:44:48.719 --> 00:44:51.500
Sai: Which one is the...
Herald: Sorry?
00:44:51.500 --> 00:44:55.420
Sai: Which one is the one on stage right.
Can I ask them on stage.
00:44:55.420 --> 00:44:58.059
Herald: Oh let's see if they want to come
on stage.
00:44:58.059 --> 00:45:01.989
Sai: Which number? Microphone number two
is...
00:45:01.989 --> 00:45:05.049
Herald: Number two is the microphone - you
want to come on stage?
00:45:05.049 --> 00:45:07.940
Question: Yeah, sure.
Sai: I just want to know if...
00:45:07.940 --> 00:45:13.829
Bit: Microphone #2 is in front of you in
the aisle, #3 behind there. #1 left on the
00:45:13.829 --> 00:45:18.559
aisle, and #4 right.
Sai: So it goes to number four if you're
00:45:18.559 --> 00:45:20.859
willing to get on camera.
Herald: So the question is right here.
00:45:20.859 --> 00:45:27.259
Sai: Can you please bring me my canes?
Question: Thank you for the really
00:45:27.259 --> 00:45:28.819
impressive talk.
Sai: Thank you.
00:45:28.819 --> 00:45:34.700
Question: My question is the following. So
when - I want to know how your imagination
00:45:34.700 --> 00:45:40.799
works. So when someone says, imagine a
box, what's that you think of. Is that the
00:45:40.799 --> 00:45:47.019
material or how it sounds, how it feels,
just how does it work.
00:45:47.019 --> 00:45:54.430
Sai: Well there I would actually go to my
kind of psychology talk that I gave a
00:45:54.430 --> 00:46:03.269
27C3, and a box is a category, theoretic
concept that has a prototype, possibly.
00:46:03.269 --> 00:46:14.219
It's like asking: imagine a furniture.
Hhm. Imagine a box! What kind of box? Is a
00:46:14.219 --> 00:46:20.690
shipping box? Is it a box of mate that are
those little crates that I walk into etc.
00:46:20.690 --> 00:46:29.099
There are all different kinds of boxes. Is
it an elevator? Yeah I don't know how to
00:46:29.099 --> 00:46:31.930
answer that kind of question.
Question: So maybe I got that incorrect,
00:46:31.930 --> 00:46:37.969
but what I want to say is that when they
try to think of something I had no idea
00:46:37.969 --> 00:46:44.509
and you project plan, or etc. I imagine
how it looks. So how I am at a certain
00:46:44.509 --> 00:46:50.390
place or how I, for example, see a box if
someone's talking about the box. So my
00:46:50.390 --> 00:46:55.989
brain works like visually creating visual
pictures. So I was interested in how that
00:46:55.989 --> 00:46:59.759
works for blind people.
Sai: Well, that depends on the blind
00:46:59.759 --> 00:47:09.249
person, I have - I've never really had a
visual thought process. So when I've
00:47:09.249 --> 00:47:14.670
talked to people and asked them what is it
like to think for you? So if people in the
00:47:14.670 --> 00:47:21.349
audience, think about this, if you're
imagining like what you did over the last
00:47:21.349 --> 00:47:33.770
day - try it - okay. Many people here feel
that as sort of a quasi audio monologue.
00:47:33.770 --> 00:47:41.439
That's like a voice in their head, except
it's their voice, it's not other voices.
00:47:41.439 --> 00:47:48.130
Many people have it, like you have it, a
sort of visual experience. Some people
00:47:48.130 --> 00:47:55.880
have it as scrolling text. Can I get a
clap for anyone who has their thoughts as
00:47:55.880 --> 00:48:03.449
text? Anyone? No? Okay. Like two or three
people who have that. For me it's purely
00:48:03.449 --> 00:48:08.539
abstract. But if I wanted to think of a
box, yes I can think of a box. I can
00:48:08.539 --> 00:48:14.259
imagine it visually, I can imagine what it
feels like, etc. Also please remember I
00:48:14.259 --> 00:48:23.920
can see in dark light. I can't see here
because - even looking up is painful with
00:48:23.920 --> 00:48:28.189
my eyes closed under this blindfold. There
is enough light coming through that it
00:48:28.189 --> 00:48:34.029
hurts. I definitely would not be able to
open my eyes and I could take my blindfold
00:48:34.029 --> 00:48:40.200
off temporarily but that was because I was
willing to tolerate some pain. So if it's
00:48:40.200 --> 00:48:46.710
a dark room then I can see just fine.
Herald: The next question is from the
00:48:46.710 --> 00:48:48.769
Internet so they won't be able to go on
stage.
00:48:48.769 --> 00:48:51.730
Sai: Yes, the internet!
Question: How do you feel about
00:48:51.730 --> 00:48:59.019
the app Be My Eyes.
Sai: Be My Eyes. It's actually not bad.
00:48:59.019 --> 00:49:11.559
There's Be My Eyes, TapTapSee, BeSpecular,
several for iPhone which I've never used
00:49:11.559 --> 00:49:17.180
because I've got an Android. Though
iPhone, for what it's worth has, and Mac
00:49:17.180 --> 00:49:23.420
products in general, have really excellent
support for blind people. TapTapSee is
00:49:23.420 --> 00:49:30.880
useful. It's not as useful for me because
at home, like if I want to identify a can
00:49:30.880 --> 00:49:37.869
of soup or whatever, I will just look at
it with the lights down, so I can see it
00:49:37.869 --> 00:49:44.829
myself. And it's too much of a pain to use
if I'm out, like if I'm grocery shopping.
00:49:44.829 --> 00:49:51.359
That's something that's a real pain to do
and an accessibility issue. For those of
00:49:51.359 --> 00:50:03.630
you thinking about such things: if you
only support the operation search or the
00:50:03.630 --> 00:50:11.880
operation look up and say I walk into a
grocery store - which I have done - yeah,
00:50:11.880 --> 00:50:16.839
shocking. And they come up to me and say,
hey how can I help you, what do you want.
00:50:16.839 --> 00:50:23.209
I say well I don't know what I want. What
do you have. I would like a savory snack
00:50:23.209 --> 00:50:32.670
that's vegetarian. What do you have. Well
what do you want. Name it. And if I name
00:50:32.670 --> 00:50:38.829
it they'll get it from me but I don't
know, especially if I'm in Germany. I have
00:50:38.829 --> 00:50:47.109
no idea what they sell here yet they still
ask me. So browsing is much harder and
00:50:47.109 --> 00:50:52.279
with TapTapSee and with Be My Eyes and so
forth, it's really for identifying a
00:50:52.279 --> 00:50:59.630
specific object. One thing that you may
not be used to here but in more barbaric
00:50:59.630 --> 00:51:05.869
countries, all the paper currency is the
same size and has no distinguishing
00:51:05.869 --> 00:51:12.569
features. Except for the next print run,
because the American Federation for the
00:51:12.569 --> 00:51:17.740
Blind sued the U.S. Treasury and won. So
the next generation of bills except for
00:51:17.740 --> 00:51:21.839
the one dollar note which the Treasury is
not allowed to change by law,
00:51:21.839 --> 00:51:25.579
laughter
the next generation will have blind
00:51:25.579 --> 00:51:30.739
accessibility features. Here, they have
different sizes. If you feel your euros
00:51:30.739 --> 00:51:38.380
they have a little strip on the edge of
them. And some versions of them have
00:51:38.380 --> 00:51:44.019
little braille dots that you can tell what
they are. So that's that's not as bad
00:51:44.019 --> 00:51:50.209
here. Be My Eyes is more useful for
someone who's blind at home as well. But
00:51:50.209 --> 00:51:53.660
it's a great app!
Herald: Another question from microphone 4
00:51:53.660 --> 00:51:56.809
that's to the right of the stage. They can
ask from there, but if they want to come
00:51:56.809 --> 00:51:57.809
up...
Sai: Thank you!
00:51:57.809 --> 00:52:00.390
Herald: Do you want to come up?
Sai: Ask first!
00:52:00.390 --> 00:52:05.319
Herald: I'm going to - sorry for all
the...
00:52:05.319 --> 00:52:12.349
Question: So it was very impressive how
you pick up on all the these things that
00:52:12.349 --> 00:52:18.510
like, I normally don't. So I was really
curious when you meet a new person. What
00:52:18.510 --> 00:52:22.439
do you pick up. What do you pickup about
them. Like how do you assess the person.
00:52:22.439 --> 00:52:28.489
How do you know they're like interesting,
attractive, like how do you.... Because I
00:52:28.489 --> 00:52:33.079
use visual cues for that.
Sai: So I'm going to answer you assuming
00:52:33.079 --> 00:52:42.539
that I'm blind at the time. If they come
up to me and say "how much can you see?"
00:52:42.539 --> 00:52:46.449
then they're probably not a person I want
to continue interacting with.
00:52:46.449 --> 00:52:50.449
laughter
If there is someone who comes up to me,
00:52:50.449 --> 00:52:54.549
they've read my shirt about all sorts of
different things that we can have a
00:52:54.549 --> 00:53:00.689
conversation about that's substantive, and
they say: "hey how would you like to
00:53:00.689 --> 00:53:05.920
implement liquid democracy", or "how do
you make a non-linear writing system", or
00:53:05.920 --> 00:53:12.011
something like that. Then they're more
likely an interesting person or they
00:53:12.011 --> 00:53:20.329
introduce themselves and are nice. How do
you evaluate people? Like, you can't value
00:53:20.329 --> 00:53:28.579
them just by what they look like. I can
tell your age and your approximate gender,
00:53:28.579 --> 00:53:38.150
and your approximate place that you were
raised linguistically, and if you were at
00:53:38.150 --> 00:53:43.619
the same floor level, I can tell your
height. I can probably tell roughly your
00:53:43.619 --> 00:53:50.440
weight just from your heat, your - the
sound of your voice, the amount of
00:53:50.440 --> 00:53:53.009
pressure that you're making on the floor -
depending on what kind of floor it is,
00:53:53.009 --> 00:53:58.539
like if it's the stone out in the Messe,
I'm not going to get anything from that.
00:53:58.539 --> 00:54:03.890
Yeah blind people can be racist too if
that's what you're thinking.
00:54:03.890 --> 00:54:07.089
laughter
Everybody can be racist.
00:54:07.089 --> 00:54:14.709
singing We're all a little bit racist.
Yeah same way anyone else!
00:54:14.709 --> 00:54:18.849
Herald: So we will do one last question
for microphone number two, that's center
00:54:18.849 --> 00:54:22.749
aisle.
Question: So thank you for your talk. I
00:54:22.749 --> 00:54:27.699
think that was very inspiring. I was
wondering, most of the methods you showed
00:54:27.699 --> 00:54:32.989
where rather analogue. So have you also
tried something like maybe a smart cane so
00:54:32.989 --> 00:54:37.930
you have some more technical approach to
detecting surfaces and obstacles, or other
00:54:37.930 --> 00:54:40.650
things, and what's your experience with
this kind of thing?
00:54:40.650 --> 00:54:44.069
Sai: Hopefully my slide is still up there,
where it says I'd be interested in
00:54:44.069 --> 00:54:51.759
collaborating on that. Eric Boyd at
SenseBridge of NoiseBridge, where I used
00:54:51.759 --> 00:54:59.339
to be, made a nice anklet called the
NorthPaw, which is basically a series of
00:54:59.339 --> 00:55:06.849
pager buzzers that vibrate to point to
which way is north. I sadly broke mine,
00:55:06.849 --> 00:55:12.650
and if any of you have a working one, I
would really like to have it! Absolute
00:55:12.650 --> 00:55:17.089
orientation is really difficult. So
relative orientation, like what I was
00:55:17.089 --> 00:55:22.880
doing with the aikido, I can tell like
where someone is. I can focus on them but
00:55:22.880 --> 00:55:31.099
then it's easy to lose track of which way
you're facing. So something like that is
00:55:31.099 --> 00:55:41.059
quite useful. There are some products that
do this on demand. So I forget what it is
00:55:41.059 --> 00:55:48.069
called, but the LHZ Dresden had this
product, which is a tactile feedback
00:55:48.069 --> 00:55:54.349
compass and clock. So if you click it and
it will vibrate in different ways to tell
00:55:54.349 --> 00:56:02.710
you which way you're facing. That's - it
doesn't really work very well. What you
00:56:02.710 --> 00:56:08.519
would want is something continuous. I've
heard of canes where they've like attached
00:56:08.519 --> 00:56:17.390
a camera to either the cane or to the to
the grip, and it beeps or something when
00:56:17.390 --> 00:56:24.509
there's something there. I've never used
one, so I can't comment on that directly
00:56:24.509 --> 00:56:30.930
but from blind friends, who told me about
experiences with them, they tend to be
00:56:30.930 --> 00:56:36.140
engineered by sighted people who have no
idea what it's like to be blind. That
00:56:36.140 --> 00:56:45.569
said, it is true that tree branches are a
real obstacle, because if I try to sweep
00:56:45.569 --> 00:56:52.740
something and something is above this
height like a tree branch at about this
00:56:52.740 --> 00:57:01.619
height or a metal sign like in Boston or
D.C. or New York, or well really anywhere
00:57:01.619 --> 00:57:07.099
in the U.S. Not so much in London, they're
pretty good about that except for the one
00:57:07.099 --> 00:57:10.140
time I walked into a government building
and there was a monitor affixed to the
00:57:10.140 --> 00:57:13.019
wall at this height.
indicates height of his head
00:57:13.019 --> 00:57:17.469
I cleared the column, hit the column. I
knew there was a column there and I was
00:57:17.469 --> 00:57:23.959
just walking past the column and walked
smack into the monitor. This was in a
00:57:23.959 --> 00:57:28.710
government building, sadly. But usually
they're pretty good about it and I haven't
00:57:28.710 --> 00:57:37.029
found any like that here. But trees,
there's always trees. Bus stops often have
00:57:37.029 --> 00:57:42.079
sort of the the sign on on the side,
right? And there is like this gap that
00:57:42.079 --> 00:57:44.319
might be this high
indicates knee hight
00:57:44.319 --> 00:57:49.440
because I have a fairly long cane. Canes
are usually anywhere between sternum and
00:57:49.440 --> 00:57:55.949
nose. And mine is just at the edge of my
nose. If I'm standing up tall. It's quite
00:57:55.949 --> 00:58:02.170
long because I walk really fast. So mine
has a lower angle and that means that it's
00:58:02.170 --> 00:58:08.849
more likely to go under that and then I'll
hit it like here when I'm almost at it.
00:58:08.849 --> 00:58:16.039
Tangles up my cane, it's kind of a pain.
Yeah. So it's possible that something that
00:58:16.039 --> 00:58:22.829
detects a higher range will be useful. One
thing that I'm specifically interested
00:58:22.829 --> 00:58:29.079
because it's something I'm bad at, is
absolute orientation. So if you are an
00:58:29.079 --> 00:58:39.219
engineer or a hacker who is interested in
collaborating on something like putting
00:58:39.219 --> 00:58:46.160
things in the cane grip or in a hat or on
the side of eyeglasses or something like
00:58:46.160 --> 00:58:52.930
that, that would tell me which way is
north, constantly, please get in touch. Or
00:58:52.930 --> 00:58:59.229
for that matter if you can make glasses
that will take standard lenses and have
00:58:59.229 --> 00:59:05.519
zero light leakage, please get in touch.
Because it turns out there aren't any such
00:59:05.519 --> 00:59:11.269
frames on the market for some reason.
That's the technology.
00:59:11.269 --> 00:59:17.211
Thank you very much!
Herald: I think we're out of time.
00:59:17.211 --> 00:59:19.893
Thank you Sai for a very interesting talk,
big round of applause.
00:59:19.893 --> 00:59:23.839
applause
00:59:28.651 --> 00:59:31.854
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00:59:31.854 --> 00:59:52.000
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