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Juan Arellano - Let's talk about free software in Latin America,

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what's your opinion?

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Santiago Hoerth - Well, actually, free software is extremely popular in Latin America.

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It is probably the place where it is most popular, regionally.

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There is, to begin with, Brazil and its government's

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decision to incorporate

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free software for public administration purposes,

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and the support for the local development of free software.

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Also, Venezuela, Ecuador, Argentina,

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Costa Rica is now implementing a new system

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where universities are required by law to incorporate free software.

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And, in other countries, free software is also

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growing noticeably, not only through those

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who actually use it, who are obviously important

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and who make free software possible,

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but also through the support of the authorities,

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in this case, the government.

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The government supporting free software is

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an important encouragement for those who

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are trying to develop free software.

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So, yes, the outlook of free software in

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the Latin American region is definitely positive.

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Even though some people still use privative software

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on their computers, when it comes to

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companies and public administration

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there has been a noticeable migration towards free

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software, and this also includes some universities.

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What Código Sur does is to encourage

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civil society organizations and social movements

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to incorporate free technologies.

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Not only free software, but also, once the free software

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has been incorporated, move on to other types of

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free technologies as well.

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It is a fact that free software has become

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a Latin American movement.

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It is so because of the growing support that

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free software has received from different areas.

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So the prospects in Latin America for free software

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are that free software will continue to grow,

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will have an even stronger market position,

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and will slowly replace privative software altogether.

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What I always say is that those who are nowadays

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working with privative software in most

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of the information technology areas

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have their days numbered.

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Because in a short time from now,

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no one will support privative software.

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I couldn't tell you exactly when.

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It is, obviously, a matter of years.

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It could be 5 to 10 years.

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The growth of free software is unstoppable.

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JA - Free software, generally...

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There are some criticism of it.

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On the one hand, those who develop free software

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are quite ...

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how can I put it?

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radical

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SH- Aha.

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JA - ...about its incorporation to the market.

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And on the other hand, I've also read

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that free software simply copies

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privative software, and provides the free software

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version, and that it lacks originality.

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What can you tell me about all this?

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SH - Well, the first thing I can tell you is that

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no, that free software is original to

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a very large extent.

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And I'm going to use Firefox as an example,

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a web browser of the Mozila Foundation,

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that is free software.

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In the struggle that took place between

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the browsers in the world,

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Internet Explorer had 98% of the market share

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two years ago. Nowadays it is starting to fall,

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it already lost 40% of the market share.

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It approximately has 60% of the market share now.

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When Firefox was launched, one of the

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improvements, related to Internet Explorer,

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was that, I don't know if you remember,

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a few years ago with Internet Explorer 5 and 6

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when you wanted to open a new window,

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you had to literally open a new window,

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and if you wanted to use several pages

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at the same time, we had to open 30 windows

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in our operating system, right?

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Different windows. Each one in a different

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Internet Explorer window.

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Firefox said, "I think it'll be a good idea to

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solve this with a few tabs".

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And it started the idea of tabs for the browsing

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of different web pages.

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So one could have 30 tabs open

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in only one Firefox window.

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Automatically, Internet Explorer, on its 7th version,

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if I'm not mistaken, what was its next step?

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Adding tabs to its browser, wasn't it?

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Because the way Firefox was working

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was obviously more functional.

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80% of the Internet, approximately, it is not an

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exact figure, but it is around that number,

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works through free software.

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Apache is the number one web server.

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Most of the e-mail addresses are free software.

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And regarding what you said about the

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'copying of the privative software', I think

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it is not imitation what we could find but attention

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to the needs of all those who use the product, right?

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For example, Photoshop is not very similar to

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GIMP, regarding presentation and the way some

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things are done. But it allows you to do--

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I mean, the results are practically the same.

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The same happens with Inkscape and Illustrator

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and other Adobe programs.

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There are a lot of programs that are

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characteristic of a certaing area, for example

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video or audio, and therefore a large

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number of users would be used to a specific software.

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So the aim would be to keep the learning process

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very close to what people already know,

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so as not to drive them crazy and to increase the

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potential penetration rates of the free software

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on users of privative platforms.

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So, I think it is not really 'copying',

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but rather some projects trying to achieve a

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certain level of comparison so new users

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would not have any problems when learning

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how to use the tools.

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But, actually, free software is much more

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innovative than privative software.

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Many of the numerous developments that are taking

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place are not even present in privative software.

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JA- Ah, OK.

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And I also mentioned the activists of

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free software being referred to as "radical".

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SH- Right, yes, yes.

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Well, radicalization, I think, has to do with

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being aware of what is happening with

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companies and people who develop privative software.

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What is it that happens when one uses

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privative software?

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I mean, it is not a simple matter.

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On the contrary, one does not have any

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control over what one is doing.

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So the purpose of radicalization is to

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make people understand the reasons

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when we talk about technology, we

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necessarily have to talk about freedom.

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And that freedom is translated in the

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possibilities and freedoms that

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the software I'm using provides me with.

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If a software does not let me see the source code

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there is no way to audit it and know

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exactly what that source code does.

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There's a thing that happens--

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I don't know if at some point, to those who

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use Windows, for example, when trying

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to install a program they get a notification

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that says: "This software in not validated by

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Microsoft. Do you still want to install it?"

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JA- Aha.

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SH- If us, as developers, want Microsoft to

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validate one of our softwares,

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what we need to do is send it to them,

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send the source code for them to analyse it,

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and the application that they approve is

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returned to us as a compilation.

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What does a "compilation" mean?

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That we can no longer see how that

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software is done, because we can no longer

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have access to the code. It is a compilation,

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it is closed, a package, we can no longer open it.

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And that is what they allow you to introduce,

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as a validated product, into their system.

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JA- Which could be completely different

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from the one that you sent.

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SH - And you don't know what it is that

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they changed, exactly.

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You don't know what they they did

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to it, because they send it as a compilation.

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So, from this point of view, what does

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it really mean to de radical?

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Is being radical making people aware of how much

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proprietary software is damaging society?

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Or are they people that--

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leaving aside any internal problems among

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free software supporters, and that some people

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can be more radical or more closed-minded.

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I mean, generally, the free software movement's

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main purpose is for people to see what really

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happens when they use privative software

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and what are the advantages and possibilities

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of using free software.

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And I'm not simply referring to technology, but

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to society as a whole. With either one of them.

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Socially, when we use privative software, we

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depend on the person or the company

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that develops it. We will never be free

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from the company that develops a

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certain software which we can't access.

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Free software, on the other hand, can be

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developed through a specific company

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and if in the future, for whatever reason, you don't

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want to continue working with that company,

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you can hire a different one to continue

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developing it, because the source code

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would be available to you.

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So, radicalization has to do with that.

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In some places where human rights are

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being violated, there are people who are

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extremelly radical exactly because of that,

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because they are defending human life.

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We can translate this into the position that

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the activists of free software have.

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JA- Aha, OK. Than you Santiago.

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SH - Pura vida