Erin: So this video is an overview of how to conduct an advising session,
from both perspective of the faculty adviser and
the Student Success and Advising Office.
So, I'm Erin Baumgartner, currently Director of General Education,
but also a Biology Faculty adviser.
Nikki: And I'm Nikki Weight. The Director for Student Success and Advising.
Erin: So what we're going to do today, is we're just going to walk you through,
sort of a basic advising session from beginning to end,
and share some of the associated resources that go with that.
Now, if you're relatively new to advising, you're going to have the opportunity
to kind of connect with Nikki's office for some of their resources,
and we'll get to those in just a minute.
But first we're going to kind of just start with the process
of how do you figure out who your advisees are and how to connect with them.
So the easiest way to do that is by going through the Portal,
and if you just click on Wolf Web, you'll go to the Faculty Menu,
and your advisers menu, and then you can just click on your Advisee Listing.
Now I'm not going to click on that right now, because I have some advisees in there
and their information is confidential, but this would basically bring up a list of my advisees.
And then what I normally do is, I simply set up in Google Forms,
I'll make a little list of an advising schedule,
and what that's going to do is, I'll send out the Google Forms link to my advisees,
so that they can sign up for their advising time.
And then they can fill that in, with the time that they want,
they can edit it online, they can make changes if they need to,
and it makes it really, really easy. They don't have to come in and see me to sign up.
They just have to do it on the Google Form.
Nikki: And then for Student Success and Advising,
for any students that come in for advising through our office,
we use the Wolf Connection System for our advising appointments.
That is a feature that if you are interested in utilizing,
we can connect our offices to see about going to get this set up.
A benefit of Wolf Connection System for our office,
is that it allows us to track our notes in there.
It also is available if other advisers use WCS,
that they can see past history with a student.
But, having an online scheduling format is really beneficial for students.
They can easily get in touch - they're not waiting to hear back from an email,
or trying to figure out when your office hours are if they're not in one of your classes,
so that way their time is set aside, so that we're able to focus on that student
when they come in for advising.
Erin: Ok. So at the beginning of an advising session, especially if I'm with a new student,
what I like to do is make sure that I have Degree Tracks up before they come in.
So, to get to Degree Tracks, you're still going to use the Advisers Menu,
and then you'll just select Degree Tracks, it'll ask you for the term,
and then you'll go to Degree Tracks.
Now, we already have one set up. We have a simulated student account here.
So, what I would do is I would take a look at this ahead of time,
I would look at where my students are. And it'll tell me kind of where they are
with their academic standing and that's an important thing to know.
And we're going to talk about what that means, what those academic standing information means.
So I'm going to let Nikki say a little bit more about that.
Nikki: So, any student at Western that is not in good standing,
they could be on Academic Warning, Probation, Continued Probation
from a past semester, or they could be on Academic Suspension.
Any student that falls into one of these categories,
if you see that listed on Degree Tracks, our office does advise them,
and work with them to make sure that any challenges or barriers they're having,
that we're connecting with resources.
So I'm going to explain a little bit of the process of what our office requires
of standing students, so if you see a student that is on warning or probation
or suspension, you can refer them to our office, but then also you can
check up and see how they're doing, and see if they've connected with us,
and then we kind of try to loop that full circle to refer them
back to their assigned adviser.
A student is placed on Academic Warning
if their term GPA drops below a 2.0. If they're on Academic Warning,
and the following term they continue to have a term GPA of below a 2.0,
they move to Academic Probation, and if that happens again,
they're placed on Suspension.
Students that have a Warning or Probation, and their next term they get above a 2.0
GPA, are placed back in good standing, so you may see some fluctuation,
if they only take one class, or if they took it over the summer,
it may change really quickly. What happens if a student is placed
on Warning or Probation or Suspension, is that at the end of every term,
once grades have been submitted to the Registrar's Office,
the Registrar's Office will send the official notification
to that student of what their Academic Standing is and then
in that notification they are referred to the Student Success and Advising Office.
We have two different tracks for students that are in less than good standing,
just based on, how close they are to reaching academic suspension.
Students on Warning have two options. They can complete an online
Student Success Workshop, that goes over what Warning is,
and what resources are available to them, but also just refers them to our office.
Or they can just meet with an Academic Success Adviser.
Those students who are on Academic Probation since it's their
second term below a 2.0, we want them to come and meet
with someone just to make sure that we're addressing what their needs are.
Students who are on Academic Warning or Probation, they receive a registration
hold on the first day of the term or at some point after that email.
And that's just an incentive for them to come and actually do the workshop
or come and see us so that they know what it means for their standing
and resources to help them.
If students are placed on Academic Suspension, they actually have
to sit out for at least one term before being able to resume classes, and if
they happen to get a second Suspension, that they're required to sit out a year.
Our office works with the students who are returning after that break.
They are required to take a Learning Seminar class their first term back,
and that is taught by staff in Student Success and Advising.
Attached to this presentation on our website, there will be a handout
with some helpful resources for doing your first advising session.
In that resource, there'll be kind of a one page cheat sheet
for the Academic Standing flow chart, so you can also refer to that for questions
on how Academic Standing works. Our biggest hope with Academic Standing is
that we're just getting the student connected with all the appropriate resources
and helping them overcome whatever challenges they faced in dropping below
that GPA and helping them get back on track.
Erin: So, a good reason to be aware of where students are with their academic standing
is because that's part of the conversation I like to have
with them when they come in.
So, if this is a new advisee I will probably just start with getting to know
them a little bit better, asking them a few questions about,
sort of, what's, you know, what's brought them to college, what are their goals,
what are they hoping to get out of their time here,
and also to just kinda get a sense for who they are.
And then, at the same time, I'm gonna walk them through
the DegreeTracks system so that they know how to use it too.
So DegreeTracks, and this is really important, the DegreeTracks is actually
the university's official record of the degree requirements for each student.
So if students want to see kind of where they are in their progress towards degree,
DegreeTracks is the best place to go.
The requirements in DegreeTracks align to the requirements in the catalog.
So if, for some reason, a program is looking to alter
what's in DegreeTracks, they need to do that
through the curriculum proposal process.
Of course, what that means is sometimes between years when there are program changes,
depending on the student's catalog year, which is gonna be listed here under their Catalog Term,
if they are--if the program requirements have changed and they're using
a different catalog term, those may be different in DegreeTracks.
So that's an important thing to be aware of.
The other thing to be aware of is that if a requirement is not marked
as complete in DegreeTracks, this little green check box here,
then it is not marked as complete in the Registrar's Office.
Sometimes people make a mistaken assumption that,
well it's not marked off in DegreeTracks but the Registrar's Office knows about it.
If it's not in Degree Tracks, it is a safe bet that
the Registrar's Office does not have it recorded as well.
The blue sort of squiggle here, what that shows is a degree requirement
that's in progress, and then if it's red and not filled in then we know that
that requirement is not quite complete.
So those are things to sort of work students through.
Now sometimes it's necessary to make an exception or a substitution.
For example, if a student transfers something in,
so here we have some students who transferred in some biology classes,
these are articulated from Chemeketa, but let's imagine that a student transferred
something in from a college on the east coast where we don't have
an articulation agreement, if someone is making a substitution
or an exception to a requirement here that's usually a department head
or a division chair, somebody like that, that's gonna be noted in here as well,
so that is something that students can look for.
And so those can be made in DegreeTracks.
One thing to be aware of is that if an exception is entered in DegreeTracks,
it does not affect the prerequisites at registration,
so a student may still have to get that blue add/drop form signed
if they don't have a prerequisite, even though that is checked off in DegreeTracks.
So that is one little funny quirk there.
So, I like to go over kind of all of the basics of DegreeTracks
with students so that they know how to read this and interpret it, and then,
as we talk about their plans for the academic year,
what I will do is I will add notes in DegreeTracks,
and I just do that by adding a note.
You can choose a pre-defined note, but what I usually do is I like to kind of
do a custom note, and I might describe what the student, what classes
we talked about, if I recommended they take a placement test before next term,
something along those lines, and what's really great is I can always
go back to those notes, but so can the student,
so it's of course really important to remember that your student advisees
can see everything that you put in these notes.
So if they are frustrating you, maybe that's something
to write down some place else.
But the other thing that's nice here is if a student decides
to change their major, or change their advising plans,
then as they move forward, their new adviser will also have access to these notes.
Nikki: Just a note on the note section,
oftentimes there will come a situation in the future where a student
will look back and say, "Well my adviser told me A, B, and C",
and it's really helpful to have those notes written down at the time
so that it doesn't become a "he said, she said" scenario.
So I use notes, not only for you know, a resource for the student
and when they come back to meet with me, but also as we talked about
degree requirements and things they need to get done, like prerequisites
or specific graduation requirements, that I can look back and say,
"Look on this date is when we discussed these requirements",
so that's recorded if it ever, a student ever tries to petition it
or question it down the road.
The thing I also like to do with the notes is, as
Erin mentioned, those introductory conversations asking about why
they're at Western, or what their career goals are,
the next time the student comes in I can review those notes before they come
in and ask them kind of a follow-up on our conversations from last time.
I get really funny reactions from students when I do that because
they think I have this great memory, and that I just pulled that off
the top of my hat, but really I just pulled it from their notes,
but it really helps me keep that sense of connection with the students
as we move forward, that they really do feel like I care about what's going on
in their life, and I care about what they're doing with their degree,
and so as we move further along their degree path
and away from more of the new student,
where we have to go through this is DegreeTracks, these are your generals,
these are your major requirements, and we move more into how do we
prepare you for graduation or graduate school or internships that we've developed
that rapport over time and we can kind of shift that focus.
DegreeTracks is a really great tool and my expectation when I advise
is early on I'll teach students very much how to use it,
but then over time I want them to be using it themselves and then coming to me
with questions, rather than just them assuming that I'm going to tell them.
One area I think that is not very obvious for students that I always
like to point out is right here at the top of the screen where it has the
degree requirements, I think it's fairly straightforward to explain like
the check boxes and you haven't met these degrees,
but a lot of students aren't aware that you need 180 credits to graduate
and you have to have so many upper division credits and if they're a transfer
student they have to have 45 of their last credits at Western for that to count
and so they're not reaching graduation and having 11
elective credits to graduate, but their lower division electives
didn't count because they weren't the upper division.
So that's an area both Erin and I really try to make sure students
are aware of very early on that's not kind of a checklist type.
The other feature of DegreeWorks, DegreeTracks, that I use fairly regularly
is over on the left-hand side there's this "What If" option.
This is really helpful if a student is not 100% sure if the major
they're currently in is the right fit, or if they want to add a minor,
and this allows them to add whatever changes they would wanna make
and see what their worksheet would look like under the new requirements.
Now in this test environment it doesn't let us pick the major or minor,
but what you would typically do, and the student is able to do this as well,
so usually I'll just show them how to do it and allow them to go and do it themselves
is under the "Select Additional Areas" under the primary--make sure you pick
the most recent academic year, and then under the major, select
the most recent one and then you can also add a minor or a concentration.
They'll show up under the chosen area of study drop list
and once they have shown up there you go back up
to the process "What If" button at the top.
And it will look the exact same as their current worksheet just with
the updated information, so the student will be able to see
how close they may be to finishing a minor in one area,
or how close they may be if they decide to switch majors so that
can be a really helpful feature if, or another option is if they're pre-major.
For example, if they're currently looking at going to pre-nursing but they
want to maybe have a backup degree like biology or something else,
you can do a What If for if they stay in your major that they have a plan
of what they should be working on while they're maybe pursuing
alternative plans at the same time.
Erin: Yeah, and this brings up a really good point.
One of the conversations I regularly have with students,
especially early in their degree process is oftentimes they will come in
and I will simply ask them you know, "How are things?
How are things going with your major right now?
Tell me a little about your classes."
And that gives us an opportunity to have some conversations,
especially when they start to recognize that maybe
they want to make a change to their major.
And that can be a really important conversation.
I find oftentimes students aren't always comfortable opening
that conversation because they mistakenly feel like they have to stay
committed to their major.
I have had several students worry that they would hurt my feelings
by wanting to change majors.
So by opening that conversation with them I think it gives them
an opportunity to kind of ask the questions that they need to ask,
and then we have the opportunity to investigate what happens when
we want to make a change to a major.
And so, the way to do that is the university Registrar's Office,
if you go to "Forms", there is a form, the "Major/Minor/Adviser Change Form"
which is a PDF.
I think I'm clicking the right button.
And so, this is an opportunity if students do decide they wanna change their major,
or add a minor, or perhaps they want to choose a different catalog year
because they want some, the major was just updated this year
and they wanna come in under those requirements.
This is the form that you use to do that.
It's really straightforward, it's form-fillable, put all the
student information up here, depending on what they're doing
you just mark all the intended changes.
Most frequently for me, that's a change of major.
Occasionally it's a change of catalog year, because I advise pre-biology
sometimes it's also a change of advisor.
And then you can make a note of what their major is, and then what happens
down here is this is going to be listed and signed by the advisor for the major
that they are switching into.
So if they come to see me because they want to switch into biology I would
complete this and sign off on it for them.
But if they are wanting to leave biology, I might get them--help them get started
with this, but ultimately they are going to need to go to whatever department
program is going to be taking them in.
And if you're not sure about that there's a really good way to find out,
and that's through the Student Success and Advising Office website,
and there's this advising contact sheet.
So let's imagine we wanted to find out who a student needed for biology,
it's got all the information, Cinda DeVoe is our academic
program administrator, we're gonna give her those forms to file.
But then we can see who all the different advisers are as well.
So, if for example, a student is interested in pre-med we'd wanna
make sure they go see Dr. Baltzley.
If they're not sure he would also be a good person to talk to because
he's the department head.
But let's say maybe a student is interested in botany,
that would be perhaps Dr. Howard.
So this gives you an opportunity to kind of help them so that
they're not chasing around all over campus.
This is a really helpful resource.
[Nikki] And with the changing majors,
once the student has taken the new form to the correct department,
that department will assign the student an advisor and get the form
over to the Registrar's office so that the student's curriculum is changed
so that way their DegreeTracks shows up accurately.
Couple things of note with the change of major form
is I try to keep copies of them.
Often times if it doesn't make it from the department to the
Registrar's Office and the student is emailing saying,
"Why hasn't my DegreeTracks updated?"
Or they haven't been assigned to you as an advisee,
that can cause some frustration so keeping record of when that
was submitted so that you can quickly submit it again.
One thing to note is if the student is coming to you and they want to change
into your major, and they have an advising hold,
you may not be able to remove that hold right away.
One thing to note with Western Oregon University is we do
require every student every term to meet with their assigned
academic advisor so their changing majors and that assigned adviser changes
then that may require a little bit of emailing with their current advisor.
And Erin pulled up the advisor menu again and when you have a student you want
to remove a hold for you go to the same advisor menu,
instead of going to advisee listing you go to remove advisor hold
and they'll be a check box there you can select advisee's name and remove it
after you've met with them.
There is a search bar you can enter a student's information,
but if you get an error that says, "You do not have access to remove this hold",
that's because you haven't been assigned as the advisor yet,
then you can often times I'm just calling whoever their past advisor
was and just say, "We met.
We're changing their major. Can you remove the hold?"
On kind of that same note, if a student knows that their
current major is not a good fit, that they don't quite have a,
"What next?", they're not necessarily need to stay
in their current major that is one of the resources the
Student Success and Advising Office provides at Western
is advising students who are exploratory.
And just in case you can't see it on the slide,
the website for Student Success and Advising is wou.edu/advising.
We have academic success advisors who are specifically focused on advising
exploratory students, and this is a big area that we wanna make sure students
know it's OK that students don't know what they wanna do yet.
We'd rather them start the process of exploring earlier and be OK with that
uncertainty so that they make a good decision, then staying in
the wrong major too long, and then maybe having it effect
their GPA because their classes didn't go very well,
or they get two years into a major and realize it's not a good fit.
So if any students are just not sure, they have questions definitely
having that conversation about why maybe it's not a good fit,
but then if they need to have further conversation that's outside the realm
of knowledge area and they don't have a direct area we welcome
them to come see an advisor in office.
We can actually change their major to "Exploratory" while their exploring
so they will have an assigned adviser in our office,
and we work very closely with various resources and opportunities on campus
and do training to really help these students have opportunities to explore,
so there are definitely is an area I encourage students to be willing
to explore and usually they end up doing better if they do that earlier.
So if you have any students that they're not doing well,
it's not a good fit, but they just don't really know what they wanna do
or what the next step would be, that is a great opportunity
for us to connect with our office.
[Erin] However, at some point the students
are going to pick a major that's a good fit for them,
they're gonna stick with that major, and they're gonna approach
their graduation day.
So at that point, again, one of the things I wanna make sure
I do is I'm double checking that they have all of their requirements checked off.
One of the things that's really nice especially as they get close
and we use DegreeTracks is if they want to, for example,
figure out remaining requirements like maybe I have a student
who still needs to take their PE 131 they can check on this box
and it'll pop up and it'll tell them what the class is and it will give
them a historic record of when it has been offered.
So they're likely to see here, "Oh, this class
is offered pretty regularly. I shouldn't have any trouble picking it up."
As opposed to a class that might not be offered all that regularly.
So that can be really handy.
The other thing that's great is that the Student Success and Advising Office
does provide guides to advising the liberal arts core curriculum so students
can look at those and see what classes they need, as well.
As the new general education program comes online we will have
similar guides to advising that particular program.
[Nikki] And the current guide is included
in the handout on our website so that's attached with this presentation.
[Erin] So, but in the meantime as students
get closer and closer they're going to want to prepare for graduation.
And the easiest way to do that is to send them back to the university
Registrar's Office website and there's this fantastic turn-by-turn steps
to graduation for undergraduate students.
So making sure that they're aware that two terms before their graduation
term they should be applying to graduate, reminding them to always double check
with their advisor's to make sure they have everything checked off
in DegreeTracks all the way up through what happens when they graduate.
So this is a very handy resource to share with students so that they know
what they need to be doing.
Depending on your program there may also be some test requirements.
For example, I advise students who are often times planning to apply
to the Master of Arts and Teaching program, and so they have some testing
requirements that they need to complete prior to application for that program.
So making sure that they're aware of all those little fun quirks that specific
to your academic program as they get closer
to graduation can be really helpful.
[Nikki] And kind of on that same note with going
with a purpose of the advising appointment is that really make sure students
are on track for graduation and not reaching their last year
and realizing that they're six credits short,
or they're missing a key requirement.
So a big portion of the advising appointment opportunity is reviewing
that DegreeTracks and seeing where they're missing areas.
But kind of the bigger scope of that advising appointment is getting them
a connection with campus and helping them be connected with resources.
The Student Success and Advising Office, we work as a resource for all students
in a lot of different areas, and so as you're meeting with students
that maybe they're struggling with a particular class,
or maybe they are having some things going on,
just to kind of make you aware of some of the other resources
that are available through our office, but not only that, through campus
in the handout that's attached to the website with this powerpoint
there is a list of common resources across campus.
Everything from helping students get more engaged, like through
Service Learning Career Development to maybe volunteer or career internships
and things like that to you know, Student Health and Counseling Center,
Office of Disability Services.
There's a pretty broad range of resources across campus that the advisor can
kind of serve as sort of the keychain so to speak as connecting those students
with those resources they may not know exist,
or may be hesitant to go and explore 'cause they're,
they don't know somebody there so someone can help make the introduction.
Student Success and Advising, couple areas that we offer is we do have,
we coordinate tutoring for some of the main general education opportunities.
There is a separate writing center, science center,
and computer science tutoring, as well as math tutoring,
so our office with tutoring focuses a lot on common general education classes.
We also offer a study skills tutoring option, so if a student
just wants help with time management or note-taking but they don't necessarily
have a specific class they're struggling with they can meet with a tutor for that.
They can also always meet with an academic success adviser to talk
about study skills and that type of thing.
We also have some resources on our website for students
who have any questions about tutoring, they can schedule it online through WCS,
the Wolf Connection System, or they can always just come
and contact our office and were located in the Advising Center on the south side
of the street across from the Werner University Center.
Another resource with our office is as students, and this for faculty
may apply also as you're teaching, if you have students that
you're concerned about, they're not showing up to class,
or they aren't turning in assignments, they aren't doing well on tests,
you can create an alert through the Wolf Connections System to say,
"We're concerned about this student", and the academic success advisors
in our office will reach out and make connections with that student
to see what challenges they're facing and help them get connected to campus.
Basically, whenever we can we're trying to give the student as many connections
to campus as possible to help them with being successful,
and the Wolf Connections System allows us to maybe know which students
to reach out a little bit sooner to try to help them overcome any obstacles
so that's another area that our office works with.
And then as I mentioned the academic standing, we also do
teach a student success class so if any students are interested
in really in-depth skills for learning how to be a better student
we teach a class in that area, as well.
[Erin] So I think one of the things
that's important there as I often times wrap up an advising session with students
is I will also remind them while they are required to come
and see me during that advising week and I have an advising hold
that I can use to force them to do so they're not limited to that time.
They're always welcome to stop back by, to send me an email,
occasionally during registration, for example, a class they thought
they wanted to get into will be closed, they have a prerequisite error
because of that funny little quirk in DegreeTracks where a course
substitution won't sub out a prereq, so those kinds of things
occasionally come up after we've finished our advising conversation
for that term, so I like to make sure that they know the they're always
welcome to come back and ask questions.
And, in fact, they're not bothering me when they do that,
they're saving us both a lot of time and effort because when they self-advise,
if they make a mistake and something goes wrong,
it's a lot more challenging for me and for them to go back
and take care of that issue, whereas if they just ask
we can usually figure it out together.
[Nikki] And a couple other helpful notes
with the advising holds that are placed on students is that those,
that's something that the Student Success and Advising Office
does facilitate that happens the 5th week of every term,
a student receives an email with, from our office that an advising hold
has been placed encouraging them to meet with their advisor.
And then a couple things to note with holds, often times students
will have multiple holds placed on their account.
They might have an advisor hold that's cleared by you,
but they might also have a hold from admissions,
or a hold for doing a sexual assault training,
or something from the business office, and so every time I'm meeting
with a student I also encourage them to look up their holds prior to
their registration time and make sure they contact the office that
placed the hold to get the hold resolved.
And often times those holds will be placed after the advising hold,
and so whenever I'm meeting with a student I always make sure to tell them,
"Check before you're registration time your holds",
and students can do that by logging into the WolfWeb and they'll be a student
and then student records and then a "View Holds" option.
And even doing that the day before they register or the week before
so that they're not caught off guard and emailing saying,
"Why didn't you remove my advisor hold?"
And we check and we did but they had some other holds placed on there,
so that's another thing I like to check when I'm meeting with students is to just
make them aware that there may be other holds and they should've received
emails about it, but in case they missed that to always check.
And then advising, another piece that I've seen faculty advisors do is to talk
to students about when they will register 'cause it's assigned based
on how many credits, but it's broken down into several
different time slots based on they're day and so students
can see their registration time also in WolfWeb.
They receive an email about that so just letting the student to watch
for an email about their registration time, but also how to go into WolfWeb,
click on Student, click on Registration, and it will tell them
when their time ticket is.
So not trying to register the day of, that kind of leads into another just
with advising it helps students to kind of just be aware of important dates
and deadlines like maybe when the drop deadline is, when the add deadline is,
and all of that information can be found on the main Western page,
but also on the Registrar's Office page.
So a lot of advising is just helping students be aware of some
of those university policies and dates and deadlines so that
if they have concerns or challenges that they're able to take care of those
and not be emailing you the day after the withdraw deadline saying,
"I didn't know that there was a deadline."
And so those are just some resources to help with making students aware
of when you're meeting with them.
[Erin] So those are sort of the basic things that
may come up during an advising session.
Every student is different so every advising session is different.
If you have questions, it's always good to talk to
the more experienced advisors in your department,
but just to reiterate the Student Success and Advising Office
is a wonderful resource that can be really, really helpful
in getting your students succeeding towards graduating as well.
[Nikki] And I am always welcome to talk
with people one on one for strategies and we're hoping over time
to be able to get more and more resources put together to create kind
of a resource library for advisors so that you don't have to try
to remember everything, you can refer back to it.
I do agree with Erin that if you have the opportunity to sit in
with a current faculty adviser, maybe someone who actually advised
some of the students you will be seeing to help with that transition,
that's a great training opportunity.
And just never being afraid to ask questions is one thing I've learned
with this university is everyone is very willing to help.
So rather than be unsure, feel free to reach out to the Registrar's Office,
Financial Aid, any of those areas just to try to help the student be bounced
around from office to office and get the resources from you as their advisor
and that there's a lot of resources available to help you,
so you don't feel like you have to know everything that you're not gonna reach
out to if you have questions.
If you have any suggestions for further training that you would like to see,
or discussions you would like to have as advising that is something
I would like to hear, so feel free to email me, my email is Weight,
W-E-I-G-H-T-N@wou.edu, or feel free to come see me in the advising center.
[Erin] And we wish you good success
with advising!