0:00:01.594,0:00:04.193
Ellery Roberts Biddle [mid-sentence]: ...Our weekly video hangout series!
0:00:04.193,0:00:07.420
I think - let's see, we started a little bit off time
0:00:07.420,0:00:08.423
so I'll say it again:
0:00:08.423,0:00:12.789
Ellery: Welcome to GV Face, our weekly video hangout series!
0:00:12.789,0:00:18.367
Today, we are celebrating the 25th birthday of the world wide web.
0:00:18.367,0:00:20.789
Pretty exciting. That was on Wednesday.
0:00:20.789,0:00:24.634
Um, we've got a really all-star lineup of guests
0:00:24.634,0:00:27.673
on today's program.
0:00:27.673,0:00:31.955
Um, moving from left to right, we have:
0:00:31.955,0:00:35.345
Alan Emtage, a very special guest who is
0:00:35.345,0:00:42.186
gonna talk to us about his very special creation
0:00:42.186,0:00:44.558
of, uh, the first web browser...
0:00:44.558,0:00:46.916
Um! We have Jeremy Clark, in Montreal -
0:00:46.916,0:00:50.468
Jeremy is a technical director at Global Voices.
0:00:50.468,0:00:53.122
Josh Levy, from Free Press,
0:00:53.122,0:00:55.250
in Massachusetts, in the U.S.
0:00:55.250,0:01:00.656
and Renata Avila, campaign manager [br]for the Web We Want
0:01:00.656,0:01:03.156
Creative Commons extraordinaire, and
0:01:03.156,0:01:07.251
GV star, who is joining us from Berlin!
0:01:07.251,0:01:09.115
Welcome, everybody!
0:01:09.115,0:01:12.659
Um. So we wanted to start today's show
0:01:12.659,0:01:17.083
by talking a little bit about the World Wide Web
0:01:17.083,0:01:19.545
and the internet.
0:01:19.545,0:01:23.617
'Cuz a lot of people think that they're the same thing
0:01:23.617,0:01:27.085
when actually, that's not quite true.
0:01:27.085,0:01:29.884
I want to first turn to Jeremy
0:01:29.884,0:01:32.114
and just ask, Jer, could you
0:01:32.114,0:01:34.157
break it down for us, like,
0:01:34.157,0:01:37.081
I thought that the internet was invented in the 70's
0:01:37.081,0:01:41.651
but, if it's the 25th birthday of the web,
0:01:41.651,0:01:43.862
what does that mean?
0:01:43.862,0:01:45.951
Jeremy Clark: Okay, well, the
0:01:45.951,0:01:47.957
best place to start, I think, is
0:01:47.957,0:01:50.556
the internet - it has existed in various formats
0:01:50.556,0:01:55.726
since the 1970's, as you said,
0:01:55.726,0:01:57.965
but it was the web that really made it
0:01:57.965,0:01:59.313
enter our homes.
0:01:59.313,0:02:03.156
and, so, understanding the relationship is important.
0:02:03.156,0:02:05.555
So, the internet was invented by
0:02:05.555,0:02:07.756
the U.S. Government in a lot of senses...
0:02:07.756,0:02:10.668
...a mix of military and science funding
0:02:10.668,0:02:13.623
that developed the network of [br]actual computers
0:02:13.623,0:02:15.012
that can communicate with each other
0:02:15.012,0:02:17.419
over wires.
0:02:17.419,0:02:22.788
Now, another related technology that is also compri--
0:02:22.788,0:02:24.055
[amends] uh, built in to the web
0:02:24.055,0:02:27.285
is called hypertext. And that is the notion
0:02:27.285,0:02:31.788
of documents that can link between each other
0:02:31.788,0:02:35.188
immediately, without having to go and fetch
0:02:35.188,0:02:37.188
a separate document. Um.
0:02:37.188,0:02:39.767
So there were lots of systems since the 1960s
0:02:39.767,0:02:41.883
that were trying to implement hypertext, like,
0:02:41.883,0:02:43.483
Xanadu is an example,
0:02:43.483,0:02:47.420
uh, but all of them were commercial, [br]expensive, closed,
0:02:47.420,0:02:49.421
and none of them were very popular.
0:02:49.421,0:02:53.819
So, Tim Berners-Lee, who is the[br]"inventor of the internet,"
0:02:53.819,0:02:57.702
[corrects himself] of the web, [br]obviously, the World Wide Web -
0:02:57.702,0:02:59.587
Um. [Tim Berners-Lee] put those two things together
0:02:59.587,0:03:01.758
by building a service that runs
0:03:01.758,0:03:03.958
on top of the internet, and he
0:03:03.958,0:03:06.083
called it the World Wide Web.
0:03:06.083,0:03:09.756
So what the World Wide Web is, is the
0:03:09.756,0:03:13.189
decentralized hypertext engine
0:03:13.189,0:03:15.956
that we use to communicate between
0:03:15.956,0:03:18.821
computers' web pages.
0:03:18.821,0:03:23.356
So what makes up WEB is three things:
0:03:23.356,0:03:27.156
URLs, or URIs - Universal Resource Locator,
0:03:27.156,0:03:30.656
which are the addresses we use [br]to find things on the web;
0:03:30.656,0:03:32.853
HTML, which is the
0:03:32.853,0:03:35.317
HyperText Markup Lanuage
0:03:35.317,0:03:37.886
which is the way that the information
0:03:37.886,0:03:39.222
is stored and sent
0:03:39.222,0:03:41.557
so that we can then use browsers
0:03:41.557,0:03:44.683
to view HTML, and then
0:03:44.683,0:03:48.020
all the documents can be understood
0:03:48.020,0:03:50.344
and then also they display the links
0:03:50.344,0:03:52.234
so that the hypertext part of it works
0:03:52.234,0:03:55.081
and we can jump around from page to page.
0:03:55.081,0:03:57.790
Um, the final part is HTTP, which is
0:03:57.790,0:03:59.956
the HyperText Transfer Protocol
0:03:59.956,0:04:02.421
which is the communication method
0:04:02.421,0:04:05.189
by which the different computers can
0:04:05.189,0:04:07.587
talk to each other and send the
0:04:07.587,0:04:10.221
HTML documents back and forth
0:04:10.221,0:04:11.882
depending on the URLs.
0:04:11.882,0:04:15.223
Um. So, when he built it, there were some
0:04:15.223,0:04:17.755
very important things that he [br]built into this system
0:04:17.755,0:04:19.345
that didn't exist before.
0:04:19.345,0:04:21.119
And the main one is
0:04:21.119,0:04:22.851
universal authorship.
0:04:22.851,0:04:26.854
So he always intended that anyone[br]would be able
0:04:26.854,0:04:29.156
to access these webpages,
0:04:29.156,0:04:30.419
and anyone would be able to
0:04:30.419,0:04:31.661
add their own webpages,
0:04:31.661,0:04:33.516
without asking for permission.
0:04:33.516,0:04:37.152
With the very explicit special condition
0:04:37.152,0:04:39.514
that anyone can link to any other webpage
0:04:39.514,0:04:41.283
without permission.
0:04:41.283,0:04:44.483
Previous hypertext systems required that
0:04:44.483,0:04:46.623
basically, for you to link to me,
0:04:46.623,0:04:48.020
I have to accept that link,
0:04:48.020,0:04:50.090
and probably create a link back to you,
0:04:50.090,0:04:51.871
and that wasn't required on the Web,
0:04:51.871,0:04:53.820
which gives us a lot of freedom [br]to link to people
0:04:53.820,0:04:57.314
who wouldn't want us to be able [br]to link to them, for example,
0:04:57.314,0:04:59.957
so no one can say "I'm putting up free content..."
0:04:59.957,0:05:04.253
"...but you can't send your readers here,[br]because I hate you," et cetera.
0:05:04.253,0:05:07.759
The other one is that he made it [br]completely, completely free.
0:05:07.759,0:05:11.852
So in the world of[br]inter--[fumbles for words]--programming
0:05:11.852,0:05:13.820
the most free thing is generally considered
0:05:13.820,0:05:17.556
to be the GPL [General Public License]:[br]open-source, free software licenses.
0:05:17.556,0:05:19.651
uh, and Tim Berners-Lee actually almost used
0:05:19.651,0:05:22.545
the GPL, because he wanted the web software
0:05:22.545,0:05:23.884
he was building to be free.
0:05:23.884,0:05:26.220
But at the last minute he actually changed his mind
0:05:26.220,0:05:28.130
and made it full public domain,
0:05:28.130,0:05:32.980
because in certain ways, [br]the GPL is actually more restrictive,
0:05:32.980,0:05:33.850
because it forces other people -
0:05:33.850,0:05:35.390
like, certain commercial actors
0:05:35.390,0:05:39.835
wouldn't have wanted to use web technology[br]if it were GPL,
0:05:39.835,0:05:41.286
so he made it full public domain,
0:05:41.286,0:05:44.587
and then from there went on to make all of the standards
0:05:44.587,0:05:48.698
as open and, uh, general and free as possible.
0:05:48.698,0:05:51.987
Uh. So that's my extremely brief[br]history of the internet.
0:05:51.987,0:05:54.650
If anyone is curious, [br]he wrote a wonderful book
0:05:54.650,0:05:57.115
called "Weaving the Web" about his experiences
0:05:57.115,0:05:59.756
[enticing tone] As you can see, it's short!
0:05:59.756,0:06:02.807
And he has lots of interesting technical information in it
0:06:02.807,0:06:05.852
without being overwhelming.
0:06:05.852,0:06:07.156
It's very approachable
0:06:07.156,0:06:08.883
and he's a really interesting person
0:06:08.883,0:06:10.555
and it - the book is much better than his tweets,
0:06:10.555,0:06:12.607
which are usually incoherent.
0:06:12.607,0:06:15.757
[one of the participants huffs out a "whew"]
0:06:15.757,0:06:17.626
Ellery: Ouch![br]Jeremy [?]: A few minutes?
0:06:17.626,0:06:18.951
Ellery: Thanks, that was - that was great, Jer!
0:06:18.951,0:06:21.336
Ellery: I mean, I think that that helps
0:06:21.336,0:06:24.370
um, in conversations about internet policy,
0:06:24.370,0:06:26.753
and internet governance, [br]there's a lot of emphasis
0:06:26.753,0:06:31.727
on the ability to, kinda, create and innovate[br]without permission?
0:06:31.727,0:06:36.796
Like, for everybody to be able to build parts of the web.
0:06:36.796,0:06:40.268
And what you just laid out for us[br]makes it clear
0:06:40.268,0:06:45.594
how important [expansive gesture] the Web piece of the infrastructure is
0:06:45.594,0:06:48.997
for that, for that capacity to become
0:06:48.997,0:06:51.934
a real tangible thing, and somebody that -[br][amends] something that now
0:06:51.934,0:06:54.598
we can do - we don't have to have
0:06:54.598,0:07:00.738
technical expertise to kind of build our own[br]spaces there.
0:07:00.738,0:07:02.341
Ellery: Um. So, I wanted to -[br]Jeremy: So um.
0:07:02.341,0:07:04.700
Jeremy: If I could add just one more thing, sorry -
0:07:04.700,0:07:06.700
Jeremy: I just wanted to give a couple examples
0:07:06.700,0:07:07.998
of things that happen over the internet
0:07:07.998,0:07:08.817
that aren't the web,
0:07:08.817,0:07:11.334
because that was the actual initial question.
0:07:11.334,0:07:13.670
So, one example would be torrents,
0:07:13.670,0:07:16.878
where you're the - two computers [br]connect to each other,
0:07:16.878,0:07:20.102
and stream information directly, without any URLs
0:07:20.102,0:07:22.239
being mixed into the process.
0:07:22.239,0:07:24.533
Um, another one is - email, at its core,
0:07:24.533,0:07:26.685
is its own communication protocol
0:07:26.685,0:07:28.039
that doesn't have to use the web,
0:07:28.039,0:07:32.503
although we often use web sites[br]to access and manage our email.
0:07:32.503,0:07:36.291
Umm. And then another one was the one[br]right before the Web came out,
0:07:36.291,0:07:38.799
a very popular protocol was called Gopher,
0:07:38.799,0:07:41.470
which people liked, and sort of worked like the Web
0:07:41.470,0:07:43.595
- you surf around and find things -
0:07:43.595,0:07:48.740
but it actually became commercial [br]right around the time that the web came out,
0:07:48.740,0:07:50.554
so people would've had to start paying,
0:07:50.554,0:07:51.934
and instead of starting to pay,
0:07:51.934,0:07:55.477
they switched to HTTP, HTML, and [br]the World Wide Web.
0:07:56.327,0:07:57.932
Ellery: Thank you.
0:07:57.932,0:08:00.900
Ellery: So I want to move to Alan, now... Um,
0:08:00.900,0:08:06.039
Alan built the first search engine.
0:08:06.039,0:08:11.934
And I'm kind of... like, overwhelmed, and feel sort of
0:08:11.934,0:08:14.472
like, giddy and nervous having him here.
0:08:14.472,0:08:16.138
Ellery: This is just - [br][Alan laughs]
0:08:16.138,0:08:17.572
Ellery: This is, like, a really big deal!
0:08:17.572,0:08:21.302
Ellery: So, Alan, just - if you could tell us -
0:08:21.302,0:08:25.039
'cuz I think a lot of people don't know about Archie -
0:08:25.039,0:08:27.702
um, it would be really cool just to hear
0:08:27.702,0:08:32.532
about how you sort of - what you were doing
0:08:32.532,0:08:35.796
that made you decide to, to do this
0:08:35.796,0:08:40.711
and kinda what it was like, and then, I mean,[br]everything you've seen since...
0:08:40.711,0:08:43.071
Unfortunately we're time limited, but...
0:08:43.071,0:08:44.604
Alan: Right.[br]Ellery: You know.
0:08:44.604,0:08:48.777
Alan [coughs]: Well, um, uh, well, that was back in
0:08:48.777,0:08:57.469
1989, and, I was working as a system administrator
0:08:57.469,0:09:00.101
for uh, McGill University - I was a grad student
0:09:00.101,0:09:05.102
for McGill University - and um, I was responsible
0:09:05.102,0:09:08.196
for getting software for - one of my responsibilities
0:09:08.196,0:09:12.500
was getting software for the faculty and the students.
0:09:12.500,0:09:17.103
And at the time, the three major [br]protocols on the internet
0:09:17.103,0:09:19.501
- this was pre Web, ummm -
0:09:19.501,0:09:23.894
was, uh, Telnet, which would allow you to log in
0:09:23.894,0:09:26.101
to a remote machine.
0:09:26.101,0:09:29.069
Email, ah, which would allow you to communicate
0:09:29.069,0:09:31.974
ah, with another - as we do now, with a, with a
0:09:31.974,0:09:34.500
remote machines, plural,
0:09:34.500,0:09:38.331
and, and FTP, which was the File Transfer Protocol,
0:09:38.331,0:09:41.870
which allowed you to move, ah, data files, or files
0:09:41.870,0:09:44.469
from one machine to another.
0:09:44.469,0:09:47.373
And at the time what we had was - people had made
0:09:47.373,0:09:50.996
- remember it was a non-commercial internet[br]at the time -
0:09:50.996,0:09:54.340
- actually, commercial traffic was forbidden[br]on the internet at the time,
0:09:54.340,0:09:57.167
because it was run by the [br]National Science Foundation
0:09:57.167,0:09:59.103
and it was using educational money
0:09:59.103,0:10:02.671
and therefore other than companies with
0:10:02.671,0:10:07.037
research arms, like IBM and HP [br]and those kinds of things,
0:10:07.037,0:10:09.071
we didn't have any commercial traffic on the internet,
0:10:09.071,0:10:13.137
which nowadays seems kind of amazing [br]to even think about -
0:10:13.137,0:10:18.532
and, ah, so what people did, were to provide
0:10:18.532,0:10:21.164
to provide free space on their machines
0:10:21.164,0:10:22.966
- and remember, you know, at the time,
0:10:22.966,0:10:26.697
a big disc would be a megabyte, you know -
0:10:26.697,0:10:32.566
and so people would provide common repositories
0:10:32.566,0:10:37.203
that you could deposit programs that you had written
0:10:37.203,0:10:42.236
datafiles, and documents, and that kinda stuff.
0:10:42.236,0:10:44.537
into these central repositories that were
0:10:44.537,0:10:46.365
spread around the internet.
0:10:46.365,0:10:48.536
Then other people could then retrieve them.
0:10:48.536,0:10:51.238
And so I spent a lot of my time trying to locate
0:10:51.238,0:10:56.123
software, or the information that my, the[br]students and the faculty were trying to find,
0:10:56.123,0:10:57.459
and I got tired of it.
0:10:57.459,0:11:00.828
and since I'm lazy and a geek, I...
0:11:00.828,0:11:04.628
I automated the process.
0:11:04.639,0:11:08.671
I got - instead of doing it manually, I had a bunch
0:11:08.671,0:11:10.960
of scripts wake up in the middle of the night[br]every night,
0:11:10.960,0:11:14.287
and go out and index these files.
0:11:14.287,0:11:17.002
Now remember all of this was just file listings.
0:11:17.002,0:11:21.295
It's not like Google, it's not like [br]a search engine would be today,
0:11:21.295,0:11:26.396
it is just... filenames. All it was, was filenames.
0:11:26.396,0:11:28.271
And so what it would do
0:11:28.271,0:11:29.616
was it would go out every night,
0:11:29.616,0:11:31.592
list all the filenames in all the repositories,
0:11:31.592,0:11:35.401
and allow you to search lists of filenames.
0:11:35.401,0:11:36.833
And I only used it for myself!
0:11:36.833,0:11:42.032
I only used it, um, uh, for my own personal use.
0:11:42.032,0:11:44.339
Um, and at one point my boss,
0:11:44.339,0:11:47.478
who was also a student, a grad student at the University,
0:11:47.478,0:11:51.508
let Peter Deutsch let it be known that, um,
0:11:51.508,0:11:53.771
somebody was asking for, you know,
0:11:53.771,0:11:58.373
could they, could somebody tell them where, um,
0:11:58.373,0:12:01.001
y'know, a particular piece of software was.
0:12:01.001,0:12:07.475
And, uh, uh, we, um, uh... we, you know,
0:12:07.475,0:12:09.437
he came and asked me, [br]he knew we had this database
0:12:09.437,0:12:12.641
and he came and asked me if I could help out.
0:12:12.641,0:12:14.170
And I gave it to him, and if, y'know,
0:12:14.170,0:12:17.139
half a sec- half a minute later I had the information,
0:12:17.139,0:12:22.508
and so he put this posting online, and, umm.
0:12:22.508,0:12:24.065
People then started asking,
0:12:24.065,0:12:26.742
"Well, can you find this for me?"
0:12:26.742,0:12:28.107
And, you know, all these manual requests!
0:12:28.107,0:12:31.308
Basically - either through email, or UseNet postings -
0:12:31.308,0:12:32.833
- which is what we were using at the time -
0:12:32.833,0:12:34.737
we thought, well, this is silly,
0:12:34.737,0:12:36.570
there's no point doing these things manually
0:12:36.570,0:12:40.920
when we can just allow people access[br]to the database itself.
0:12:40.920,0:12:43.574
And in a moment of insanity,
0:12:43.574,0:12:45.138
we had to come up with a name for it,
0:12:45.138,0:12:47.431
and I said, "Okay, well, let's just call it ARCHI-E,"
0:12:47.431,0:12:50.801
which is "ARCHIVE" without the V
0:12:50.801,0:12:55.137
And, ah, and within about three or four months
0:12:55.137,0:12:57.267
we were consuming about half
0:12:57.267,0:13:00.972
of all of the traffic to eastern Canada [br][where McGill University is]
0:13:00.972,0:13:04.907
as this search engine became - as people, y'know -
0:13:04.907,0:13:05.509
- word of mouth -
0:13:05.509,0:13:08.038
you know, people who know about Archie
0:13:08.038,0:13:11.173
are generally people of a certain age...
0:13:11.173,0:13:13.308
...I won't mention what that age is, but
0:13:13.308,0:13:17.140
it's generally people who were in university
0:13:17.140,0:13:19.539
or working on the internet, so it would have been
0:13:19.539,0:13:20.837
so it would have been research people,
0:13:20.837,0:13:23.729
people in academia in the early nineties.
0:13:23.729,0:13:28.827
So Archie lasted for about, uh, [br][hems and haws]
0:13:28.827,0:13:31.370
Five years. Four or five years.
0:13:31.370,0:13:34.510
And, um, it only indexed FTP archives.
0:13:34.510,0:13:36.836
It never indexed the web.
0:13:36.836,0:13:40.192
Now, I went on, as Archie became popular,
0:13:40.192,0:13:43.308
and I got more involved in the standards process
0:13:43.308,0:13:44.140
and that kind of stuff,
0:13:44.140,0:13:47.170
I worked, uh, fairly closely with Tim Berners-Lee
0:13:47.170,0:13:49.836
to, uh, to standardize - for example,
0:13:49.836,0:13:52.063
I did the - I ran the committee
0:13:52.063,0:13:54.579
at the standard-setting body for the internet,
0:13:54.579,0:13:56.507
which is the IETF [br][Internet Engineering Task Force]
0:13:56.507,0:13:58.571
to standardize URLs.
0:13:58.571,0:14:00.107
Because Tim had come up with
0:14:00.107,0:14:02.546
a set of rules for URLS,
0:14:02.546,0:14:04.803
and as we looked at expanding that
0:14:04.803,0:14:07.539
to a larger range of resources,
0:14:07.539,0:14:10.369
we realized that those rules did not cover
0:14:10.369,0:14:11.939
all of the cases.
0:14:11.939,0:14:14.706
So, we worked, for, uh - Tim brought the,
0:14:14.706,0:14:17.033
the specification, his original specification,
0:14:17.033,0:14:20.601
to the group, and we worked on it for,
0:14:20.601,0:14:22.971
I don't remember, nine months to a year or so,
0:14:22.971,0:14:25.067
to come up with a standard for URLs.
0:14:25.067,0:14:26.706
So all of those URLs that we use,
0:14:26.706,0:14:28.233
day in and day out,
0:14:28.233,0:14:30.339
were, were standardized as a result
0:14:30.339,0:14:31.433
of that committee.
0:14:31.433,0:14:35.014
So, it was, um, it was a really exciting time,
0:14:35.014,0:14:38.540
it was a time of, y'know - the question I always get
0:14:38.540,0:14:41.267
is why didn't make a billion dollars off of it?
0:14:41.267,0:14:42.707
And I keep reminding people that
0:14:42.707,0:14:45.263
most of the people who were pioneers -
0:14:45.263,0:14:48.202
with the exception of Marc Andreessen[br][who co-founded Netscape]
0:14:48.202,0:14:54.661
uhm, didn't make a whole lot of money off of these, these original things.
0:14:54.661,0:14:58.573
We were working in an environment which, uh,
0:14:58.573,0:15:02.633
put a premium on getting the technology out there
0:15:02.633,0:15:05.730
making it as widely available as possible -
0:15:05.730,0:15:08.340
Tim's big coup with CERN,[br][European Organization for Nuclear Research]
0:15:08.340,0:15:12.151
which is the organization that he worked for[br]when he first developed the web ,
0:15:12.151,0:15:17.938
was to get CERN to put, um, the web software
0:15:17.938,0:15:20.708
that he had created into the public domain.
0:15:20.708,0:15:22.308
So it wasn't even his to give away,
0:15:22.308,0:15:24.771
it was CERN's property.
0:15:24.771,0:15:28.723
As an employee [of CERN], [br][Tim's work] would actually belong to CERN.
0:15:28.723,0:15:36.041
Uh. He, he actually convinced them [br]to put it in the public domain
0:15:36.041,0:15:38.419
and that's what really, uh, y'know
0:15:38.419,0:15:41.266
set [amends] lit a fire under the whole thing.
0:15:41.266,0:15:46.203
At the time, the philosophy behind it
0:15:46.203,0:15:47.906
was really, "Let's get this out there,
0:15:47.906,0:15:49.067
"..this is a brave new world,"
0:15:49.067,0:15:52.330
"..we don't know what all of this [br]technology's gonna be used for!"
0:15:52.330,0:15:54.174
I don't think any of us - including Tim -
0:15:54.174,0:15:56.266
imagined what it would become.
0:15:56.266,0:16:00.139
Y'know, he, he always had a much grander vision of it
0:16:00.139,0:16:02.170
but I don't - I can guarantee you -
0:16:02.170,0:16:05.002
I've spent many, many, many, many an hour
0:16:05.002,0:16:07.190
with drinks, in bars, drinking with Tim,
0:16:07.190,0:16:09.971
and I can guarantee you that he did not
0:16:09.971,0:16:12.236
- Sir Tim, by the way, Sir Tim -
0:16:12.236,0:16:17.203
Um. I should - y'know, he even, he,
0:16:17.203,0:16:19.941
I don't think, had any idea that it would basically
0:16:19.941,0:16:21.002
take over the world.
0:16:21.002,0:16:23.096
and half the world's population would be using
0:16:23.096,0:16:25.221
the system that he created, twenty years later.
0:16:25.221,0:16:27.336
[corrects himself] Twenty-five years later.
0:16:29.276,0:16:30.691
Ellery: Thank you so much.
0:16:30.691,0:16:34.433
Ellery: I mean, so, speaking of which, yeah,
0:16:34.433,0:16:41.639
it has changed, and, I guess, [chuckles], taken over, in a way,
0:16:41.639,0:16:45.666
um, that we, I'm sure, wouldn't have expected.
0:16:45.666,0:16:51.682
I wanted to now move to Josh and Renata,
0:16:51.682,0:16:54.521
who are both [something falls to the floor]
0:16:54.521,0:16:57.139
very [she looks at the fallen object, winces]
0:16:57.139,0:17:03.369
committed, involved leaders in what has now
0:17:03.369,0:17:08.467
become a global effort to - I mean,
0:17:08.467,0:17:09.580
the way that we're sort of putting it
0:17:09.580,0:17:10.867
is "save the internet"
0:17:10.867,0:17:13.908
or, preserve and protect the openness
0:17:13.908,0:17:21.233
and all of the rights to free expression, access, um,
0:17:21.233,0:17:27.095
and also privacy, that we all feel are embedded
0:17:27.095,0:17:29.740
actually, in the way that it was built.
0:17:29.740,0:17:33.338
So, Josh, I wondered if you could explain to us
0:17:33.338,0:17:37.957
really briefly what your role is in your organization
0:17:37.957,0:17:41.706
and then also, um, tell us about
0:17:41.706,0:17:46.508
the Web We Want campaign, and explain, y'know,
0:17:46.508,0:17:50.854
how you think this rights movement is shaping up
0:17:50.854,0:17:54.771
and if you could kind of link it with everything that
0:17:54.771,0:17:56.467
Alan just laid out for us,
0:17:56.467,0:17:58.522
that would be really wonderful.
0:17:58.522,0:17:59.538
Josh Levy: I'll do my best.
0:17:59.538,0:18:01.742
Josh: So, my name is Josh Levy,
0:18:01.742,0:18:03.307
Josh: I'm from Free Press, [br]
0:18:03.307,0:18:06.530
we're a U.S.-based organization,
0:18:06.530,0:18:11.347
we advocate for better technology and media policy
0:18:11.347,0:18:14.013
that allows for an open internet,
0:18:14.013,0:18:16.938
for better representation of people in the media,
0:18:16.938,0:18:19.947
including in, in media that's online,
0:18:19.947,0:18:23.402
and for open access to information.
0:18:23.402,0:18:26.371
And this issue that we're talking about -
0:18:26.371,0:18:27.834
the anniversary of the web -
0:18:27.834,0:18:30.173
is really central to our work,
0:18:30.173,0:18:32.571
because we've been fighting, for example,
0:18:32.571,0:18:38.770
to pass strong Net Neutrality policies [br]here in the U.S. for years.
0:18:38.770,0:18:42.107
Basically ever since the issue first came up,[br]in the mid-2000s,
0:18:42.107,0:18:44.234
when we saw big internet service providers
0:18:44.234,0:18:48.200
blocking traffic coming from certain destinations.
0:18:48.200,0:18:50.139
And that fight is ongoing.
0:18:50.139,0:18:52.258
The FCC, the Federal Communications Commission here in the U.S.,
0:18:52.258,0:18:56.938
which is charged with overseeing communications and technology policy,
0:18:56.938,0:18:59.036
passed rules in 2010
0:18:59.036,0:19:01.402
that were intended to protect Net Neutrality
0:19:01.402,0:19:05.526
but were passed in a way that we knew[br]wasn't gonna hold up in court.
0:19:05.526,0:19:08.553
And we were - unfortunately,
0:19:08.553,0:19:11.800
we saw that happen earlier this year,
0:19:11.800,0:19:14.729
when a court in Washington, D.C., [br]threw out those rules,
0:19:14.729,0:19:18.540
effectively throwing out any Net Neutrality [br]protections that people have.
0:19:18.540,0:19:21.937
And so this gets back to what Jeremy was saying
0:19:21.937,0:19:23.677
the "internet" versus the "Web," right?
0:19:23.677,0:19:25.541
So when we're talking about Net Neutrality,
0:19:25.541,0:19:27.032
which I hope a lot of people have heard of,
0:19:27.032,0:19:31.610
this concept that we should be able to access any information that we want online
0:19:31.610,0:19:37.539
without anybody getting in the way, whether that's a big company or the government -
0:19:37.539,0:19:43.585
that is, essentially, that's a policy that applies to the internet:
0:19:43.585,0:19:46.899
to the ways in which all of our computers[br]connect to each other.
0:19:46.899,0:19:50.638
And we have this basic understanding[br]that the internet should be free and open,
0:19:50.638,0:19:53.434
meaning that my computer should be able to connect
0:19:53.434,0:19:55.769
to yours in this global network of computers
0:19:55.769,0:19:58.942
without any entity inspecting the traffic,
0:19:58.942,0:20:01.267
trying to understand what you're trying to access,
0:20:01.267,0:20:03.073
and, based on that understanding, block it.
0:20:03.073,0:20:06.040
So if it doesn't like the video you're watching, [br][it would be] slowing it down;
0:20:06.040,0:20:08.971
or, if it doesn't like the application you're using, blocking it -
0:20:08.971,0:20:11.140
- that, that should be totally unacceptable.
0:20:11.140,0:20:14.651
We should be able to connect to whatever we want in whatever way we want.
0:20:14.651,0:20:16.342
And that includes using the Web, right?
0:20:16.342,0:20:20.655
So the Web is basically an application that rides over the internet.
0:20:20.655,0:20:22.940
The internet's this global network,
0:20:22.940,0:20:25.836
the Web is just one application that [br]uses that global network.
0:20:25.836,0:20:28.540
And so it's essential - [br]Net Neutrality is essential to using the web,
0:20:28.540,0:20:30.515
because as we've seen today,
0:20:30.515,0:20:33.231
using the web is so essential to all of our lives
0:20:33.231,0:20:39.740
and big companies, and governments, have so much power over it that they can block all kinds of things:
0:20:39.740,0:20:43.713
political speech, videos that we wanna watch, pictures of cats, et cetera.
0:20:43.713,0:20:46.404
So. Um, anyway, so that's what Free Press is doing,
0:20:46.404,0:20:49.664
in large part, trying to protect [br]that notion of Net Neutrality.
0:20:49.664,0:20:53.779
And out of that fight came a number of campaigns,
0:20:53.779,0:20:55.958
including the campaign to stop SOPA[br][Stop Online Piracy Act]
0:20:55.958,0:20:59.337
- which was the bad copyright bill a couple years ago here in the U.S. -
0:20:59.337,0:21:01.521
and out of that came a realization, I think,
0:21:01.521,0:21:02.797
here in the U.S. but [also] around the world,
0:21:02.797,0:21:05.557
that we all needed to kind of talk to each other a little bit more,
0:21:05.557,0:21:09.509
those of us who have been advocating for a free and open internet for a long time.
0:21:09.509,0:21:10.906
And so we started doing that:
0:21:10.906,0:21:14.170
Free Press led the development the drafting of
0:21:14.170,0:21:16.282
something called the [br]"Declaration of Internet Freedom"
0:21:16.282,0:21:21.822
which was a simple statement of principles[br]about our right to access information online.
0:21:21.822,0:21:26.907
And out of that came a really fruitful relationship with Tim Berners-Lee's organization,
0:21:26.907,0:21:29.329
- the World Wide Web Foundation -
0:21:29.329,0:21:33.649
and we discussed ways in which we could move that effort forward,
0:21:33.649,0:21:35.713
this Declaration effort,
0:21:35.713,0:21:40.170
to involve more groups around the world, [br]more people around the world,
0:21:40.170,0:21:44.144
and to guarantee that we all have [br]access to information
0:21:44.144,0:21:47.278
and that that access, and the principles behind it,
0:21:47.278,0:21:52.390
are not the domain of any one country, [br]or any one group of individuals.
0:21:52.390,0:21:55.575
So, out of that came this great project,[br]the Web We Want,
0:21:55.575,0:21:57.621
which Renata's gonna tell you more about.
0:21:57.621,0:21:59.665
which is seeking to do just that:
0:21:59.665,0:22:05.468
to pass laws, around the world, that will protect people's right to access the internet
0:22:05.468,0:22:09.648
and to access content on the Web [br]without anybody getting in the way,
0:22:09.648,0:22:14.677
and, uh, it's building steam very, very quickly:
0:22:14.677,0:22:18.035
we are working with countries around the world to develop their own set of principles
0:22:18.035,0:22:20.107
regarding the web and our rights on it,
0:22:20.107,0:22:26.068
and organizing lots and lots of organizations that are really excited about getting involved in this effort
0:22:26.068,0:22:32.285
and our dream of uniting groups who are all fighting the same fight but in different parts of the world
0:22:32.285,0:22:33.939
is kind of coming to life. [br]
0:22:33.939,0:22:36.090
So, I'll let Renata tell you more about that.
0:22:36.090,0:22:38.241
[Caveat: Renata is not a native English speaker, so verbatim transcription of her speech doesn't always make perfect sense.]
0:22:38.241,0:22:40.393
Renata Avila: Eum, hello everyone, everybody,
0:22:40.393,0:22:42.382
it's really good to be here?[br][she tends to uptalk]
0:22:42.382,0:22:44.566
Renata: Ah, so: the Web We Want.
0:22:44.566,0:22:50.711
The Web We Want is a coalition of [br][gestures as she searches for words]
0:22:50.711,0:22:54.128
very important groups of organizations [br]from civil society
0:22:54.128,0:22:57.072
I will mention of them:
0:22:57.072,0:22:59.814
Access, that many of us are familiar with;[br][AccessNow.org]
0:22:59.814,0:23:01.914
APC; [br][Association for Progressive Communications]
0:23:01.914,0:23:04.805
Free Press, from the U.S.;
0:23:04.805,0:23:10.085
7iber, in Jordan; [br]the Open Source Association, in Jordan as well;
0:23:10.085,0:23:12.916
[ums and ers]
0:23:12.916,0:23:20.521
Consumers International; Article 19; [br]Fundação Getulio Vargas, in Brazil;
0:23:20.521,0:23:25.227
IT for Change, in India; [br]Public Knowledge, in the U.S.;
0:23:25.227,0:23:30.879
and we, we have a - we got the confirmation that Open Knowledge Foundation,
0:23:30.879,0:23:35.793
which has affiliates all over the world,[br]will join as well.
0:23:35.793,0:23:37.683
So, basically, the campaign... [br]
0:23:37.683,0:23:40.260
..what we are trying to achieve here
0:23:40.260,0:23:43.084
is to move from the reactions, [br]
0:23:43.084,0:23:46.483
the constant reactions that [br]the civil society/ we have,
0:23:46.483,0:23:47.813
to a proactive approach.
0:23:47.813,0:23:52.997
To have a positive agenda, to have the safe first, in different countries.
0:23:52.997,0:23:55.190
And also globally.
0:23:55.190,0:23:59.806
And what happens is usually that we come together last minute -
0:23:59.806,0:24:03.725
we react to bad legislation being proposed,
0:24:03.725,0:24:13.690
by either specific groups of interest, or a very [br]creative but not so well informed legislator...
0:24:13.690,0:24:17.356
And so, in the last, let's say, five years,
0:24:17.356,0:24:22.014
we have seen so many mobilizations against, against, against.
0:24:22.014,0:24:27.252
So we think that yes, it's good to have a reaction to bad legislation,
0:24:27.252,0:24:31.483
but it's much more effective to have a proposal coming from civil society.
0:24:31.483,0:24:34.945
And not only - like, civil society understood as a -
0:24:34.945,0:24:40.283
a more extended way as we usually use it in internet governance -
0:24:40.283,0:24:45.554
but civil society involving everyone[br]in a fight for our rights.
0:24:45.554,0:24:53.266
And so we have different activities and [br]different actions to achieve that.
0:24:53.266,0:24:59.967
The first would be intense work in [br]specific countries where we [gestures]
0:24:59.967,0:25:04.682
together, all the advisory committee, [br]so that there's something going on,
0:25:04.682,0:25:08.878
some movement in civil society,[br]and there's some action there.
0:25:08.878,0:25:16.546
So, the list of the countries that we have decided will be like the first "grant-ees"
0:25:16.546,0:25:22.479
of um, more stronger support from the punt, uh, the, the, where we want manages...? will be:
0:25:22.479,0:25:32.483
Japan, Indonesia, Philippines, India, Bangladesh, Brazil, Ecuador, the U.K., Tunisia, Nigeria, Kenya...
0:25:32.483,0:25:34.084
...and South Africa.
0:25:34.084,0:25:38.265
So, as you see, it's mostly [br]countries of the global south.
0:25:38.265,0:25:42.679
Also the U.K., because we saw an opportunity there,
0:25:42.679,0:25:47.642
and we also saw a regression of rights.
0:25:47.642,0:25:52.351
It is very interesting to see how the [br]deterioration of rights in a country -
0:25:52.351,0:25:54.363
- even in a democratic country -
0:25:54.363,0:25:56.585
in the last ten years, has been very extreme.
0:25:56.585,0:26:01.375
And this is really affecting the region.
0:26:01.375,0:26:04.470
Apart from this intense work that we are planning to do,
0:26:04.470,0:26:08.756
having national dialogues in these countries I informed you of,
0:26:08.756,0:26:15.680
we have also - we are launching, [br]on the 21st of March, a mini-grant round.
0:26:15.680,0:26:18.274
The mini-grants are for everyone to apply,
0:26:18.274,0:26:21.118
so you don't need to be an NGO,[br][Non-Governmental Organization]
0:26:21.118,0:26:24.853
you don't need to be an expert to apply for these grants.
0:26:24.853,0:26:26.889
What we want is normal people -
0:26:26.889,0:26:29.783
- artists, musicians, everyone -
0:26:29.783,0:26:35.812
to be involved in this and to, eh, [unintelligible] to celebrate, to party for the Web!
0:26:35.812,0:26:38.679
But at the same time that we celebrate the Web,
0:26:38.679,0:26:41.546
we start a conversation on what is the web we want?
0:26:41.546,0:26:44.414
What is - [struggles for words]
0:26:44.414,0:26:52.731
- which values, which form we want, which way we want to protect the Web in our countries.
0:26:52.731,0:26:54.348
The free and open Web.
0:26:54.348,0:27:02.215
And so it can be something as simple as [br]a screening in a public space?
0:27:02.215,0:27:07.444
It can be more elaborate, [br]like a talk at your local library?
0:27:07.444,0:27:09.265
It can be anything you want, [br]
0:27:09.265,0:27:12.846
it can be even a sculpture in the middle of a city.
0:27:12.846,0:27:17.317
ah, telling people what the Web [br]represents [means] to you.
0:27:17.317,0:27:22.597
But also, we know that we cannot abandon [br]those fighting "against."
0:27:22.597,0:27:27.276
So we have rapid response grants.
0:27:27.276,0:27:30.684
And these rapid response grants are for, eh -
0:27:30.684,0:27:35.248
we, we have identified that sometimes to make something happen,
0:27:35.248,0:27:36.532
you need some resources.
0:27:36.532,0:27:38.347
Especially in some countries in the global south.
0:27:38.347,0:27:43.014
So. For example, ehh, think about [br]a very bad surveillance law,
0:27:43.014,0:27:45.708
about to be passed in, oh, Nicaragua.
0:27:45.708,0:27:48.379
So, this rapid response -
0:27:48.379,0:27:50.584
- which will be open during the whole year -
0:27:50.584,0:27:55.147
- will allow activists to say, "Hey, listen. [br]This very bad thing is happening..."
0:27:55.147,0:27:59.385
"..and we think that if we gather a group of people together..."
0:27:59.385,0:28:05.013
"..and we print, uh, leaflets, and we make a short video about that..."
0:28:05.013,0:28:10.383
"..we have a good chance to shift the opinions to our side..."
0:28:10.383,0:28:11.681
"..the side of right."
0:28:11.681,0:28:14.087
And so that will be open as well.
0:28:14.087,0:28:20.999
that will be open on the 21st of March, and remain open the whole year.
0:28:20.999,0:28:27.881
And what we will achieve at the end of the year is a very interesting collection of experiences.
0:28:27.881,0:28:31.083
We will see that - [finds her words]
0:28:31.083,0:28:35.416
what is the Web people want,[br]in the specific countries,
0:28:35.416,0:28:38.982
with more intense follow-up [br]mechanism and dialogue.
0:28:38.982,0:28:42.823
We will also see which techniques are [br]the best for rapid response
0:28:42.823,0:28:45.914
when there's a threat to the open internet.
0:28:45.914,0:28:50.717
by the collection of experiences from the rapid response grants.
0:28:50.717,0:28:58.204
And also we will learn from ways to engage the broader public in our topics and in our issues.
0:28:58.204,0:29:04.829
So I am very hopeful that especially [br]artists, or very creative activists,
0:29:04.829,0:29:07.914
will find ways to engage the broader public.
0:29:07.914,0:29:10.916
Because we need - this is ours.
0:29:10.916,0:29:15.452
The future of [the open internet] [br]depends on us preserving it.
0:29:15.452,0:29:22.582
And the more people invited to this fight,[br]the stronger we get.
0:29:22.582,0:29:34.041
At last, I will... I would like to invite everyone to be engaged the way that you can engage.
0:29:34.041,0:29:37.083
And to apply for these grants!
0:29:37.083,0:29:42.317
But not only to apply for these grants -[br]also, to make things your own.
0:29:42.317,0:29:47.148
If you want to write an article, [br]if you are an expert on specific topics,
0:29:47.148,0:29:50.982
please write articles, [br]please share your knowledge with people,
0:29:50.982,0:29:54.207
and please engage, and don't be apathetic.
0:29:54.207,0:29:58.214
Because the Web offers us -
0:29:58.214,0:29:59.513
- and the internet offers us -
0:29:59.513,0:30:02.513
- this opportunity to communicate and connect beyond borders,
0:30:02.513,0:30:08.378
and I think that, slowly, we are building this platform -
0:30:08.378,0:30:13.243
- which is not a website but is a platform made of [amends her description] collective –
0:30:13.243,0:30:22.546
- that is ready to jump and to take actions to save the web any moment that it is under threat.
0:30:22.546,0:30:26.947
So. Yes. That's it.
0:30:26.947,0:30:29.482
Ellery [laughs]: Thanks.
0:30:29.482,0:30:32.314
Ellery: It's really - I think it's great to sort of, [br]to have that out there,
0:30:32.314,0:30:36.803
for people to understand all the ways [br]that they can get involved.
0:30:36.803,0:30:43.685
One thing I - so, in thinking about how can we make a little show today that would celebrate the web,
0:30:43.685,0:30:47.579
I couldn't help but think about Global Voices,
0:30:47.579,0:30:50.808
because that's what brings us all together here,
0:30:50.808,0:30:55.388
and, I think that our community, in so many ways -
0:30:55.388,0:30:59.346
I mean, we couldn't exist, wouldn't exist, [br]without the Web,
0:30:59.346,0:31:05.314
but there are also so many particular attributes of it,
0:31:05.314,0:31:08.011
when it comes to access and openness,
0:31:08.011,0:31:10.348
that allow us to do all the things that we do,
0:31:10.348,0:31:13.548
like, including this hangout, right now.
0:31:13.548,0:31:16.304
Um. So I wanted to ask -
0:31:16.304,0:31:17.830
- although we're really short on time,
0:31:17.830,0:31:21.426
so I'm gonna have to ask you to be super brief, but -
0:31:21.426,0:31:23.884
Jer, you, I kind of, I said, is there...
0:31:23.884,0:31:29.946
...could you talk a little bit about what, [br]if you look at Global Voices,
0:31:29.946,0:31:34.994
and sort of the way that it's grown up, [br]um, with the internet -
0:31:34.994,0:31:36.445
- you've been here since the beginning,
0:31:36.445,0:31:40.463
so you can kind of - just, just tell us a bit.
0:31:40.463,0:31:42.619
Jeremy Clark: Okay, well, uh,
0:31:42.619,0:31:47.517
Jeremy: I actually haven't been with [br]Global Voices since the very beginning,
0:31:47.517,0:31:49.383
but I joined near the start.
0:31:49.383,0:31:51.215
So, maybe you can see on my screen -
0:31:51.215,0:31:54.754
- Global Voices was started actually in 2005, um,
0:31:54.754,0:31:57.482
and one of the great things about the story is that
0:31:57.482,0:32:02.550
it was started quickly and easily by Ethan Zuckerman
0:32:02.550,0:32:06.448
who set up the original site, uh,
0:32:06.448,0:32:09.765
along with Rebecca McKinnon, [br]who worked on the idea and the content,
0:32:09.765,0:32:14.118
and so, they actually used WordPress, which [br]is the system we still use today,
0:32:14.118,0:32:18.995
and which is very similar to the Web[br]in a lot of senses
0:32:18.995,0:32:21.746
because it's a distributed project,
0:32:21.746,0:32:23.514
people all around the world develop it,
0:32:23.514,0:32:25.231
it's open-source, and it's free,
0:32:25.231,0:32:32.082
and it is so not by convenience but very explicit philosophy and they're very active in defending that,
0:32:32.082,0:32:37.270
and also in another way: uh, originally, at the time,
0:32:37.270,0:32:40.352
there was a very popular free software [br]called Movable Type
0:32:40.352,0:32:42.444
which became commercial,
0:32:42.444,0:32:46.516
and instead of starting to pay for it, [br]people switched to Wordpress.
0:32:46.516,0:32:48.882
So, this was our original website.
0:32:48.882,0:32:51.615
We later redesigned it several times.
0:32:51.615,0:32:57.652
And over the years, we have grown with WordPress
0:32:57.652,0:33:02.630
to add - take advantage of the new features, and, uh...
0:33:02.630,0:33:05.197
[gestures] - keep running our site.
0:33:05.197,0:33:11.746
And so running our whole infrastructure on this very decentralized open-source model has been
0:33:11.746,0:33:15.961
a really rewarding experience for us,[br]just as using the Web has.
0:33:15.961,0:33:19.292
And obviously, the, uh, one of the most[br]interesting things is that
0:33:19.292,0:33:21.561
Global Voices is all about the web.
0:33:21.561,0:33:24.719
Without the Web, [br]without that decentralized authorship,
0:33:24.719,0:33:25.776
- anyone can write to it -
0:33:25.776,0:33:27.157
there would be no Global Voices.
0:33:27.157,0:33:29.291
Uh, the whole point of Global Voices was to
0:33:29.291,0:33:31.883
recognize that people all over the world
0:33:31.883,0:33:34.335
were taking advantage of the benefits of the Web,
0:33:34.335,0:33:35.982
and create one place where you could find it,
0:33:35.982,0:33:41.864
sort of like Archie was with the pre-Web TelNet days
0:33:41.864,0:33:45.215
a archive of things happening all around -
0:33:45.215,0:33:47.083
- that's what Global Voices did.
0:33:47.083,0:33:50.717
Um. So. Yeah!
0:33:50.717,0:33:52.808
And, y'know, we've tried a lot of different
0:33:52.808,0:33:55.914
infrastructure based around the web over the years;
0:33:55.914,0:33:57.315
uh, we've used Drupal,
0:33:57.315,0:34:00.514
we've used a lot of different online services...
0:34:00.514,0:34:02.045
Obviously, like everyone else,
0:34:02.045,0:34:03.945
the temptation to take advantage of Google's
0:34:03.945,0:34:08.450
free offerings has always been [br]part of Global Voices' DNA:
0:34:08.450,0:34:09.917
we use Google mailing lists,
0:34:09.917,0:34:13.243
we use all the different things that they make for free
0:34:13.243,0:34:14.951
which is an interesting part of the web,
0:34:14.951,0:34:16.779
because it's not the Web, that's Google,
0:34:16.779,0:34:18.455
just happening to give it away,
0:34:18.455,0:34:20.580
but as a company, they have a tendency
0:34:20.580,0:34:22.683
to follow the spirit of the Web, uh,
0:34:22.683,0:34:26.084
even though they're doing so [br]for commercial reasons.
0:34:26.084,0:34:27.717
But - yeah!
0:34:27.717,0:34:30.549
That's my very brief summary
0:34:30.549,0:34:31.681
of the history of Global Voices
0:34:31.681,0:34:34.284
and how it parallels the Web!
0:34:34.284,0:34:35.751
Ellery: Thank you!
0:34:35.751,0:34:38.115
Ellery: I'm afraid we're gonna have to wrap up now
0:34:38.115,0:34:41.576
but, just, to do that, I wanted to ask for
0:34:41.576,0:34:44.550
a couple of, kind of, final thoughts...
0:34:44.550,0:34:50.717
...from Alan, and perhaps also Josh, just -
0:34:50.717,0:34:54.146
- Alan, I guess I'm especially interested in
0:34:54.146,0:34:56.578
if there are, kinda, thoughts that you have
0:34:56.578,0:34:59.875
on all of the activism and advocacy
0:34:59.875,0:35:03.883
that's taking place around fundamental rights[br]on the Internet,
0:35:03.883,0:35:09.016
from your own unique historical perspective.
0:35:09.016,0:35:11.978
And then I wanted to close, um,
0:35:11.978,0:35:17.915
by asking Renata to just tell us a very little bit about Bassel
0:35:17.915,0:35:22.580
since there's also an important anniversary this weekend.
0:35:22.580,0:35:24.513
So, I'm gonna just let you guys go,
0:35:24.513,0:35:27.578
and then we will close out!
0:35:27.578,0:35:30.758
Alan Emtage: Okay, well, y'know,
0:35:30.758,0:35:34.649
Alan: I haven't been involved as an activist
0:35:34.649,0:35:37.249
for, uh, for quite some time now.
0:35:37.249,0:35:41.242
I sort of burnt out after a while! [laughs]
0:35:41.242,0:35:45.978
- flying around the globe, and doing all the stuff that I did in the nineties.
0:35:45.978,0:35:49.385
But I certainly pay a lot of attention to that stuff
0:35:49.385,0:35:52.577
y'know, I'm currently involved in Barbados, right now,
0:35:52.577,0:35:56.813
and it has been really interesting to try and,
0:35:56.813,0:35:57.881
for one example,
0:35:57.881,0:36:01.618
try and access content from the United States
0:36:01.618,0:36:04.208
- entertainment content, that kind of stuff.
0:36:04.208,0:36:06.616
And, I mean, I knew about this stuff in theory,
0:36:06.616,0:36:11.752
but in practice, the antiquated models
0:36:11.752,0:36:17.194
of content distribution[br]that we're still holding onto
0:36:17.194,0:36:18.548
in this day and age,
0:36:18.548,0:36:22.752
where, you know, geographical boundaries[br]and national boundaries and that kinda stuff
0:36:22.752,0:36:26.749
are still very much at the center of these [br]business models.
0:36:26.749,0:36:30.623
Y'know, things like BitTorrent [br]and that kinda stuff
0:36:30.623,0:36:33.483
are wiping them away,[br]and they don't even realize it.
0:36:33.483,0:36:37.848
The music industry has seen this happen, [br]now, for decades -
0:36:37.848,0:36:39.382
Certainly from the activist point of view,
0:36:39.382,0:36:43.748
in terms of keeping the Internet[br]free and available,
0:36:43.748,0:36:45.515
it's gonna be a real challenge.
0:36:45.515,0:36:48.681
And, I mean, it's such an[br]important technology now.
0:36:48.681,0:36:53.378
You have things like [br]the Great Firewall in China...
0:36:53.378,0:36:55.484
You have, you know, Russia, who recently -
0:36:55.484,0:36:57.749
- as of yesterday, today -
0:36:57.749,0:37:06.548
- shutting down, using new laws to shut down access to dissent against Putin...
0:37:06.548,0:37:08.612
They realize the power -
0:37:08.612,0:37:14.417
- Egypt was a real wakeup call for a lot of people in the use of social networking
0:37:14.417,0:37:19.481
to organize and activate people and bring them out onto the streets,
0:37:19.481,0:37:21.977
so governments are scared of this technology
0:37:21.977,0:37:24.379
and it's important that we work really hard
0:37:24.379,0:37:26.011
to keep it as free as it is,
0:37:26.011,0:37:27.483
because they realize that, you know,
0:37:27.483,0:37:30.583
information - how you control the information, you control the people.
0:37:30.583,0:37:34.448
So, um, I think it is extraordinarily important
0:37:34.448,0:37:36.946
that people like Josh [unintelligible]
0:37:36.946,0:37:40.946
continue to work very hard [br]to stop the bad laws,
0:37:40.946,0:37:43.116
to inform the legislators -
0:37:43.116,0:37:44.810
- some of them are just doing it out of ignorance!
0:37:44.810,0:37:45.417
I mean, you know,
0:37:45.417,0:37:49.114
"Never ascribe to malice what can be ascribed to incompetence."
0:37:49.114,0:37:51.207
And, uh, a lot of these people are just
0:37:51.207,0:37:53.185
incompetent, not malicious.
0:37:53.185,0:37:56.615
But there are people who are malicious, [br]as well [laughing a bit]
0:37:56.615,0:37:58.247
so we have to deal with them as well.
0:37:58.247,0:38:00.516
But, um, you know, it's vitally important
0:38:00.516,0:38:04.072
because, uh, nowadays, these technologies
0:38:04.072,0:38:05.948
really sit at the core of our culture
0:38:05.948,0:38:07.749
and the way that we [br]communicate with one another.
0:38:07.749,0:38:12.142
[long silence]
0:38:12.142,0:38:14.682
Josh [wondering if he should speak next]: ...Me?
0:38:14.682,0:38:16.482
[Josh laughs silently]
0:38:16.482,0:38:18.913
Josh: I'll just add one thing real quickly -
0:38:18.913,0:38:20.945
- I think that we're at an interesting moment
0:38:20.945,0:38:28.347
where so many of us acknowledge the importance of the Internet and the Web,
0:38:28.347,0:38:33.616
and the impact that it's had on every aspect of our culture,
0:38:33.616,0:38:34.766
and because of that,[br]
0:38:34.766,0:38:41.245
I think we as the users of the Web,[br]and of the Internet, have a duty
0:38:41.245,0:38:49.981
to hold governments around the world and companies around the world accountable
0:38:49.981,0:38:54.882
and to urge them and pressure them
0:38:54.882,0:39:01.931
to protect the openness that lies at the core of this entire thing.
0:39:01.931,0:39:04.689
And to protect, not just openness, but
0:39:04.689,0:39:06.926
also this notion of a Commons.
0:39:06.926,0:39:10.998
That's - in our opinion - quickly being lost.
0:39:10.998,0:39:17.465
This notion that the Internet, and the Web,[br]are publicly owned,
0:39:17.465,0:39:20.897
and that the activity that takes place on them
0:39:20.897,0:39:22.986
is activity that we undertake
0:39:22.986,0:39:25.280
and that is ours.
0:39:25.280,0:39:30.047
And that is not the domain of the big companies' platforms.
0:39:30.047,0:39:31.420
We undertake the activity.
0:39:31.420,0:39:33.483
So, for example,
0:39:33.483,0:39:35.626
Google has allowed us to do a lot of things.
0:39:35.626,0:39:39.455
Google allows us to find a lot of information extremely quickly,
0:39:39.455,0:39:41.849
to connect to each other extremely well,
0:39:41.849,0:39:43.933
to use Google Hangouts as we're doing right now,
0:39:43.933,0:39:47.384
but Google's doing all of this at the -
0:39:47.384,0:39:51.383
- while mining the data that we give it,[br]selling off that data -
0:39:51.383,0:39:55.378
- that data is also creating this historical record
0:39:55.378,0:39:57.780
[br]of everything that we search for[br]and say online,
0:39:57.780,0:39:59.512
which as we know, [br]can be exploited by governments,
0:39:59.512,0:40:00.953
- but also by companies -
0:40:00.953,0:40:03.994
and so I think it's time for us to think about that relationship
0:40:03.994,0:40:05.656
between us and these big companies,
0:40:05.656,0:40:10.487
which is becoming the central part of our online experience.
0:40:10.487,0:40:13.355
And how can we decentralize that?
0:40:13.355,0:40:17.173
How can we decouple ourselves from these giant companies
0:40:17.173,0:40:18.907
and take back a portion of the Web
0:40:18.907,0:40:22.473
so that we own this experience in a deeper way
0:40:22.473,0:40:26.256
and it's not experienced as purely commercial,
0:40:26.256,0:40:28.911
a commercial transaction between us an a big company.
0:40:28.911,0:40:30.593
So that's a big question,
0:40:30.593,0:40:32.524
and it's going to take years to unravel it, to find solutions,
0:40:32.524,0:40:35.594
but we're hoping that we can start that conversation now.
0:40:35.594,0:40:42.764
[long silence]
0:40:42.764,0:40:49.187
Renata: Well, now I will go back to something that Jeremy said.
0:40:49.187,0:40:53.937
It was about him being stopped in the border, the Canadian border
0:40:53.937,0:40:56.266
because of "hacker."
0:40:56.266,0:40:59.846
And what I want to talk about is that,
0:40:59.846,0:41:01.547
at the end of the day, there's, ah -
0:41:01.547,0:41:06.557
we reduce the number of people who can actually,
0:41:06.557,0:41:10.024
in some countries, not control the internet,
0:41:10.024,0:41:17.256
but understand the infrastructure, and use it in a way that they can increase public good.
0:41:17.256,0:41:20.098
and they can help people in extreme situations.
0:41:20.098,0:41:25.435
And one of these people is my friend [br]Bassel Khartabil -
0:41:25.435,0:41:29.465
[fondly] Bassel, Bassel is the internet. [br]Basically.
0:41:29.465,0:41:34.407
Basel is a Palestinian-Syrian activist,
0:41:34.407,0:41:36.711
he's an activist of Greek culture,
0:41:36.711,0:41:38.430
and he's a global citizen, you know?
0:41:38.430,0:41:42.224
He's not super nationalistic, he, he,
0:41:42.224,0:41:44.225
he has traveled a lot, extensively,
0:41:44.225,0:41:46.717
he has friends all over the world,
0:41:46.717,0:41:52.319
and he likes to spend time learning how things work, how things operate,
0:41:52.319,0:41:55.531
so he's very good with computers -
0:41:55.531,0:42:02.421
he learned himself how to code, [br]thanks to his uncle -
0:42:02.421,0:42:05.725
He knows a lot about hardware as well,
0:42:05.725,0:42:09.444
and he knows a lot about[br]Greek culture and design.
0:42:09.444,0:42:16.027
And so during his travels he saw all these wonderful things happening
0:42:16.027,0:42:18.413
and so he decided, with a group of friends,
0:42:18.413,0:42:21.252
to create a hackerspace in Damascus
0:42:21.252,0:42:23.256
I don't know how translation works,
0:42:23.256,0:42:31.596
but apparently "hacker-space" was a very scary word for the Syrian intelligence services,
0:42:31.596,0:42:34.118
and they saw it as a threat -
0:42:34.118,0:42:40.461
like, people in power view technology as a threat to their plan to control people.
0:42:40.461,0:42:46.358
So on the 15th of December, two years ago,
0:42:46.358,0:42:48.800
the hackerspace was raided...
0:42:48.800,0:42:50.792
All the computers were taken away,
0:42:50.792,0:42:52.616
all the things were dismantled -
0:42:52.616,0:42:58.769
- can you imagine one of these Syrian police looking at the 3D printer, oh my god,
0:42:58.769,0:43:02.808
[derisively] probably thought they were like nuclear weapons, or something like that -
0:43:02.808,0:43:07.340
and, sadly, he has been away, he has been in prison.
0:43:07.340,0:43:14.826
He was in a very, very bad prison, subject to torture treatment.
0:43:14.826,0:43:19.220
But then he was - thanks to the advocacy of thousands of people,
0:43:19.220,0:43:23.502
he was re-transferred back to the civilian prison.
0:43:23.502,0:43:29.468
Which, you can imagine, how, even if it's a civilian prison, how this prison looks like.
0:43:29.468,0:43:36.719
I mean, it is... the conditions get bad to worse as time goes by,
0:43:36.719,0:43:40.985
as the Syrian government runs out of resources.
0:43:40.985,0:43:46.533
The last people they will feed, the last people they will take care of, are the prisoners.
0:43:46.533,0:43:50.976
On top of that, Bassel, he has a health condition...
0:43:50.976,0:43:52.902
It is all really sad.
0:43:52.902,0:43:58.539
But, what we have been trying to do during these two years
0:43:58.539,0:44:00.263
is to keep him peaceful.
0:44:00.263,0:44:03.540
And to keep reminding him that we haven't forgotten
0:44:03.540,0:44:08.724
and to keep reminding him that we embrace the values that he embraces.
0:44:08.724,0:44:13.115
And we support the causes that he supports.
0:44:13.115,0:44:19.510
So, instead of, you know, just being sad,[br]and doing nothing,
0:44:19.510,0:44:21.631
we are a doing a Free Bassel Day.
0:44:21.631,0:44:23.094
On the 15th of March.
0:44:23.094,0:44:25.797
Well, some things are already starting today!
0:44:25.797,0:44:29.283
And what we want is, ah, joint action -
0:44:29.283,0:44:34.107
- doing things, doing anything you can do to remember Bassel.
0:44:34.107,0:44:37.596
And not only Bassel. To remember Syria.
0:44:37.596,0:44:39.756
Because it seems that because of the news,
0:44:39.756,0:44:43.976
we just, we don't hear about Syria anymore!
0:44:43.976,0:44:49.743
I mean, it's like, it is on, you know, in the parking lot,
0:44:49.743,0:44:54.656
and if we have some time, we go, "oh, okay, something is going badly there."
0:44:54.656,0:44:58.001
But, uh, we seem to have forgotten about all the suffering.
0:44:58.001,0:45:01.056
And together with Bassel there are
0:45:01.056,0:45:07.457
lots of system administrators, computer experts, and hackers who are in prison,
0:45:07.457,0:45:09.678
and sometimes we only care about journalists!
0:45:09.678,0:45:14.748
But, you know, there's lots of people, valuable people for the future of Syria,
0:45:14.748,0:45:19.384
who are in prison now, [br]who need our solidarity.
0:45:19.384,0:45:25.717
I would also like to... if you live in a country which has received Syrian refugees,
0:45:25.717,0:45:27.793
please show your solidarity.
0:45:27.793,0:45:31.521
I know that sharing your computer might not sound appealing,
0:45:31.521,0:45:36.945
but maybe crowdfunding and giving a computer with internet access to this refugee camp
0:45:36.945,0:45:40.454
so they can stay in touch with their relatives abroad...?
0:45:40.454,0:45:45.603
Maybe doing a short talk or short gathering near them...?
0:45:45.603,0:45:49.489
I think that those are good ways to help Bassel.
0:45:49.489,0:45:53.494
Because that's what Bassel probably would be doing if he was free.
0:45:53.494,0:45:58.372
So my appeal is that - to not forget Syria, to not forget Bassel.
0:45:58.372,0:46:03.086
The free internet is a free internet with free Bassel and free Syria!
0:46:03.086,0:46:06.780
And that's - [laughingly] - the Web I want, actually!
0:46:06.780,0:46:08.888
Ellery: That is the Web she wants!
0:46:08.888,0:46:10.120
Ellery: The Web many of us want.
0:46:10.120,0:46:12.487
So, there's a lot of work to do,
0:46:12.487,0:46:18.350
and there are lots of ways to get involved,[br]as we've heard about.
0:46:18.350,0:46:20.521
Thank you, everybody, so much
0:46:20.521,0:46:23.421
for coming on today,
0:46:23.421,0:46:31.348
and, umm, we hope to see everybody here and out there, next week on GV Face!
0:46:31.348,0:46:33.410
Thanks so much!