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rc3 preroll music
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Herald: So the next talk is Mike Bonanno
of the Yes Men, and I think we'll just
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allow him to get started right away. Mike,
please go.
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Mike Bonanno: Thank you so much and hello
everybody. It's so good to be here
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participating in the chaos. I can say that
I've intended to for years, but finally,
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maybe due to the pandemic, I'm finally
here. So and it's great to to be here
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after observing from afar for about twenty
five years. Anyway, I was told that the
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other day that I'm getting kind of old.
The Yes Men are elderly now. And so a lot
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of people wouldn't, you know, know very
much about the types of things or what we
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had been doing. And I'll admit I've
forgotten most of it myself. So I look
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through it, I looked through the archives,
just something that would introduce what
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we do a little bit. And I found this
picture that you see here where I'm
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holding up an ExxonMobil card, business
card. And then Andy, who's the guy that I
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work with at the Yes Men, the co-founder
of the group is there holding a National
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Petroleum Council card. And this is from
an event that we were at and I think
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2009 or so where we went to a
conference in Calgary, Alberta,
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representing these two companies. We've
been weaseling, weaseling our way into
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events, conferences and sometimes online
types of venues for over two decades now
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and representing people in power. And we
do one of two things. Either we do
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something satirical and funny in front of
an audience that usually thinks we are the
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most powerful people in the room, or we do
something that is more utopian where we
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announce the reality that we might like to
see, like in our wildest dreams, what we
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might think ExxonMobil might say if they
suddenly turned around and stopped being
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some of the world's largest climate
criminals and had a kind of reckoning and
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woke up and decided to fight climate
change. So anyway, there's been a lot of
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things that have happened over the last
two decades in terms of the media
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landscape and the sort of flexibility of
reality that have made our tactics more or
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less useful. Also, like who's in power
politically makes a difference, because
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this, the types of things that we do, this
kind of mischief we find works pretty well
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when there's people who are movable, who's
in office. Whereas if you have a total
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despotic tyrant, then you have to go to
more tactical methods instead of the types
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of things that we do that are all about,
you know, pushing political leaders to
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change or about sort of bolstering a
movement like creating some exciting, fun,
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entertaining media that shows us all that
the people that we're fighting are
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actually really fallible and no different
than you and I, despite the kind of power
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that they hold. So I'm going to go ahead
and play a little video clip here.
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Hopefully it works. This is a video clip
from our second, third Yes Men film.
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Narrator within video: We don't usually
get arrested, but ever since the 1990's,
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Mike and I have been dressing up
in secondhand suits and impersonating big
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and powerful people.
Actor: Hello, this is Reggie Lambrick
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calling. I'm from the "Yes Bush Can"
campaign
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A: Hi, this is Kinnithrung Sprat
from the WTO.
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A: My name is Francesco Guerrero
A: My name is Brad, I'm Halliburton's
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N: We weasel our way onto center stage, at
least for a little while.
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Rr: Mr. Oswin, you're not even on the
directory. You're not even listed. You
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don't even have a phone number.
A: It's come to that.
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Rr: The hoax was an elaborate one.
A: For the first time, Dow is accepting
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full responsibility for the Bhopal
catastrophe.
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R: So the prank, which briefly knocked
three percent of Dow shares.
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N: When the jig is up, it makes the news.
R: It's a group of pranksters who call
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themselves The Yes Men.
R: An activist group called Yes Men…
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N: It's not the way most people protest,
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but it's our way to say
no to corporate greed.
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pop
Oooh!
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M: Oops! OK laughing. So, I just want to
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give a little bit of backstory: I've made
three films, three feature docs in the
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last 15 years. We released one, it seems,
every five years. That's kind of a
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compilation of a bunch of the antics that
weave the exploits, whatever we want to
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call them. But a lot of people ask, well,
how do you start doing this? With what
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initiative? Why, how? And it all kind of
happened by accident. I just wanted to
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start out by showing you the World Trade
Organization headquarters in Geneva. This
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is obviously a pretty large building in
one of the most expensive real estate
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markets in the world. And how did we get
our first major kind of exploit like this
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was when we when we actually impersonated
the WTO. And so this is their
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headquarters. This at the time was our
headquarters. You can see this little plot
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here is where we lived. This is a meeting
of the OMC, the WTO. And of course, this
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is the kind of meeting that we used to
have. And so people would say, well, how
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did you end up representing the WTO on
television? You know, on stage? At
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business meetings? Here we are standing
with several dignitaries in Australia
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after a trade conference there. And the
answer was, is actually way simpler
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than it needs to be. Like a lot of things
with social engineering, it's actually a
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lot dumber and less technical than people
imagine. This is Andy at a computer. At
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that thing down there. And that's called
that's called the computer. There's a
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television in the background, a CRT. We
had put up a website called gwbush.com
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that was meant to be a satirical website
for George Bush, who at the time was
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running for president. He wasn't president
yet, but you can see that his banner for
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his website said valuable, said
"education, values, responsibility". It's
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the banner on the bottom. And then our
banner at the top said, "valuable,
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educated, prosperous". These are subtle
differences, but they're differences that
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make a big difference in English because
there and of course, in this one, instead
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of sitting with his wife smiling in front
of the Texas state capitol, he's pointing
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his finger at black people. So it was
meant to be satirical, but it turned out a
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lot of people took it seriously anyway.
And it got a lot of press coverage. This
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is some old, an old Netscape window,
browser window here. And then, sorry, it
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got a lot of press coverage and then
actually, George Bush denounced it at
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several press conferences and he made it
famous, quote, at the time, although he
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made tons of famous gaffes and at this
press conference he said about us, there
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ought to be limits to freedom. That was
what he was suggesting when they asked
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what they should do about us for making
this website that look like he hasn't made
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fun of them. We put up a website at
gatt.org, which a lot of people associated
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with the World Trade Organization, because
GATT, the Global Agreement on Tariffs and
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Trade, was the predecessor organization to
the WTO and the predecessor, the
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previously existing agreement. So we had
that website. This is actually Bretton
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Woods where they first set up the GATT, I
believe, in 1946. And then of course the
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WTO building that you've already seen on
the shores of Geneva. Now in the early
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1990s, the mid late 1990s, there was a big
global movement against neoliberalization
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and neoliberal policies. And the WTO was a
big focus of that. And Andy and I were
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participating. This is one of the marches
that you see of people mostly in the
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global south who are rebelling against the
free market ideologies that were really
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hurting the poorest of people in many of
those countries. And of course, there are
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protests like the famous Battle of
Seattle, which was famous because it shut
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down the city of Seattle during a OMC
meeting. And this is a great picture of
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what it's like to be to be there at that
event. It was. But unfortunately, we
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couldn't be there. I mean, Andy couldn't
be there to experience this wonderful
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feeling of tear gas. And so, feeling left
out, we put up a fake website for the WTO.
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And again, it's a satirical website,
but it's at gatt.org.
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And unlike the WTO's web sites that…
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The WTO website was very hard to
find out how to talk to anybody there.
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Although they emphasized their
transparency as an organization, they were
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very hard to actually speak to. And since
their web page had literally thousands of
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pages of documents, legal documents that
you needed to be a lawyer to understand.
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Ultimately, it wasn't very transparent.
And so our web site, on the other hand,
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gatt.org, was very easy to hit the contact
button and get in touch with what a lot of
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people turned out to think was the, were
the WTO. Now, that became news and the WTO
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issued a press release saying: warning,
fake WTO website. And so since they had
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actually then sent this press release to
their entire mailing list, the Google
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algorithm, which was fairly new at the
time, ranked our web site very high in the
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rankings just below theirs actually.
Without any warnings about it being fake.
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So many people would go to their real WTO
website, would fail to be able to get in
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touch with them, and then instead would
actually come to our website and on our
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website, we posted these alerts like fake
WTO website, misleading the public just to
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make sure that people knew that we that we
existed. We wanted to help them help the
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WTO do this work of warning people about
the fakes, this sort of hall of mirrors.
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So once again, the word deplorable gets
used in reference to us. This here is the
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then director general of the WTO whose
name happened to be Mike Moore, and he was
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from New Zealand, very different. He's a
former prime minister of New Zealand, very
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different prime minister than they have
now, really. But he held a press
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conference where he announced that he
deplored the fake website and said that
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they undermine the transparency. And so,
of course, we published this on our fake
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website as well. And then immediately it
gets picked up and widely, widely picked
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up by the press. So without actually going
to Seattle, we managed to actually engage
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the WTO and to get them to talk to us, to
address us, and then to get several rounds
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of media attention that we used to try to
redirect traffic to what was happening in
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Seattle, to what was happening on the
ground with the movement. And actually,
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this for us, we've been doing things like
this before, but for us this was like a
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really big win because we realized, wow,
this took very little work. It was a lot of
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fun and with absolutely no power - you
remember what our office looked like
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compared to the WTO - we were able to sort
of do these moves that would throw a much
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heavier opponent like judo moves. And so,
anyway, we got into it. So many people
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then were mistaking our website for
theirs, thanks to the sort of internet
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being so new and the you know, I mean, the
web, the world wide web and the way search
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engines worked, that we got a lot of email
from people, questions like: "Could you
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advise me of the relationship of Gibraltar
to the WTO?" And this is the Treasury
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Department of the Isle of Man asking us
this question. So, you know, it's fun,
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it's entertaining. Another question might
be: "I would like to interview a WTO
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spokesperson on South America's new
technology sector." By the way, on the
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relationship of Gibraltar to the WTO, we
explained in detail how Gibraltar was a
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rock south of Spain, a really big rock laughs in
the, basically, in between the
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Mediterranean and the Atlantic Ocean and
the WTO is this human construction,
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imagination organization, very different
thing. So we we became experts basically
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very quickly overnight. It was a lot of
fun. And then finally, we were so good at
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it, so good at being the WTO that we
started to get invitations. "Can the director
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general, Mike Moore, address our
conference in Salzburg?" was a question we
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got and well, this is Mike Moore. This is
what he looks like. And we realize, damn,
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we can't we can't possibly be that guy.
This is a problem. We can't send him
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either. So we wrote to them and we said,
well, we can't send you Director General
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Mike Moore, but we would very much like to
send a substitute. And that's when they
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embraced the idea of Andreas Bicklbauer,
Dr. Andreas Bicklbauer, which is a name we
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got out of the Vienna phone book.
Actually, a friend of ours, Hans of Uber
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Morgan, had sort of sponsored our trip by
leaving some cash on the table of his
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apartment and leaving us the keys. So when
we arrived in Vienna with our new
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thrift store suits, we were immediately
ready to go to this conference as the
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World Trade Organization. So that's sort
of how it happened in the beginning. This
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adventure in mischief, which has now
lasted twenty years, doing these things in
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person was something that just almost sort
of like occurred spontaneously. But then
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once we were onto that and into that, it
became quite an energizing and addictive
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sport thing that we've got a sportcoat
that launched us onto the twenty years of
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fun and excitement. And we haven't quite
landed yet. But I'm worried about that
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landing because it could could be a rough
one. So I want to just frame what we're
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doing a little more. You know, some of you
probably recognize this guy. This is Santa
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Claus. This is an actual photograph of
Santa Claus emerging from a chimney,
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looking at a photographer who happens to
be crouched in this room in somebody's
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house. They both had to break in, in order
to do this. And so my point here is that,
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you know, we love mischief, we love
mischief, and we actually even love
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trespass. We love breaking in. We love
breaking and entering. The stories of
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crossing borders, crossing boundaries,
changing shape, putting on disguises, the
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masquerade. These are the stories that
really carry us through history. They are
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some of our oldest stories. And this
season, with Christmas is no exception.
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Now, the stories have been hijacked and
manipulated in a number of ways, just as
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all information and stories are in our
culture and Santa Claus is reckless, break
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in in order to leave gifts, have become
something hijacked by capitalism, in part
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created by capitalism. But the fact that
we want to lean on this idea of him
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trespassing, I think is that's really
important. That's a key to something. So
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remember, don't tell anybody, though.
Santa Claus will do so. We have this
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history we see it fitting into something
that's sort of common to all cultures, and
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this is the idea of the trickster. This is
often a deity or sometimes it's actually
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based on a real historical figure that's
more recent. But all cultures have these.
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I won't say all, but nearly all cultures
have these trickster characters. There's a
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few listed on this sort of cartoon image
here, Kokopelli of the Hopi or the Zooni,
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which is, you know, in the United States,
in North America, Aboriginal people in
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North America, Anansi, the spider of West
Africa, the Raven and the Pacific
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Northwest. It goes on and on because
they're everywhere. Everybody has these.
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And it doesn't take too much digging to
find out about your own trickster
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character in your culture. And since we're
kind of in, I think mostly in Germany
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right now, and actually my mother is
Dutch, so I'm going to stick with, I'm
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going to go with Reynard, the Fox or the
Fox as a character, as a trickster
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character. And so we're going to look at a
little bit more history through the Fox's
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lens to frame the types of things that
we're doing through the eyes of the of the
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trickster. Jesus, another trickster. Laughs. And
I'm not a big fan, although I am a fan of
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some of his original tactics. You know, he
rode in on this donkey and this is an
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actual photograph of him because, you
know, somebody had a time machine and went
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back and got this shot of him riding a
donkey into Bethlehem. And, you know, this
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is like nobody rides a donkey into
Jerusalem. Nobody rides a donkey. It
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didn't make sense. He did it because he
knew that people would talk about it. It
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was a symbolic action that was meant to
project the kind of humility and make
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people tell stories about what happened.
So the idea was to propagate this myth,
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which, of course, works so well that now
we have you know, we have Christianity.
00:22:07.080 --> 00:22:14.570
But here's Nasrudin riding a donkey
backwards a century later. And again, an
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original photo. This is sort of a wise
aged coming from out of Turkey and part of
00:22:23.390 --> 00:22:32.350
Islamic tradition. And again, all these
stories, though, are stories of a kind of
00:22:32.350 --> 00:22:37.790
wisdom. And these are sort of the reason I
say they're Trickster's is that they were
00:22:37.790 --> 00:22:43.780
fighting larger powers. I mean, Jesus was
fighting the Romans. Jesus was leading a
00:22:43.780 --> 00:22:50.930
movement of liberation at the time. It
became something entirely different. But
00:22:50.930 --> 00:22:55.820
we see the same thing. This version of the
trickster, that's Nasrudin is like a wise
00:22:55.820 --> 00:23:07.160
man is usually about telling a story where
through cleverness and sometimes agility,
00:23:07.160 --> 00:23:12.390
a character can outwit others who have
more power, who would otherwise exercise
00:23:12.390 --> 00:23:19.270
power over them. I mean, there are good
trickster's and bad, but we like to focus
00:23:19.270 --> 00:23:23.930
on the idea of the good trickster, which
is those who are fighting power instead of
00:23:23.930 --> 00:23:30.481
those who are serving power. So here's
another example, a modest proposal. This
00:23:30.481 --> 00:23:37.950
is a pamphlet published by Jonathan Swift
where he suggested that the Irish eat
00:23:37.950 --> 00:23:44.370
their babies in order to solve the hunger
problem in Ireland. Because, of course,
00:23:44.370 --> 00:23:51.270
the potato famine was not a famine that
was caused by lack of food in that
00:23:51.270 --> 00:23:56.740
country. It was caused by lack of money,
as most famines are. The British were
00:23:56.740 --> 00:24:01.750
still shipping grains out of Ireland
because they made money when people were
00:24:01.750 --> 00:24:07.110
starving to death because the potato crops
had failed. So this is a comment on that.
00:24:07.110 --> 00:24:12.630
Well, why don't the Irish just eat their
own babies? And then it was, it's become
00:24:12.630 --> 00:24:19.720
one of the most famous examples of, you
know, English satire in history and
00:24:19.720 --> 00:24:24.800
English language that is. This is the
seventeen hundreds. So the whole point
00:24:24.800 --> 00:24:29.500
here is that this pamphlet, like a lot of
this sort of hacking techniques that we
00:24:29.500 --> 00:24:34.320
end up using now, this pamphlet was like
disguising itself as something else when
00:24:34.320 --> 00:24:40.700
it was first published. OK, I'm going to
skip ahead. These are a few pictures of
00:24:40.700 --> 00:24:44.890
the women's movement, but I want to get
through this stuff quickly. The whole
00:24:44.890 --> 00:24:50.500
purpose here is to show you that, again,
this obsession with stories with
00:24:50.500 --> 00:24:57.800
infiltrating with causing trouble, which
they did, is something that's constant,
00:24:57.800 --> 00:25:05.830
has continued to happen, to occur. Hang on
a second ... he's showing a low power, but
00:25:05.830 --> 00:25:11.530
I'm a power problem. I'm going to have to
go and get another power supply because
00:25:11.530 --> 00:25:20.900
this one is not working. But this is a
group called Climate Rush that was, that
00:25:20.900 --> 00:25:26.550
was repeating those actions. So I'm going
to run off and get another power supply. I
00:25:26.550 --> 00:25:33.630
will be back in just a moment. I'm going
to leave you with a picture of a Gandy's
00:25:33.630 --> 00:25:41.350
saltmarsh. Now, just a minute. This is
actually Surmont Sumati Naidu, who is
00:25:41.350 --> 00:25:47.270
leading one of the salt marches. I'll be
right back.
00:25:47.270 --> 00:25:51.450
Herald: I will use this interruption to
remind you that you can ask questions at
00:25:51.450 --> 00:26:00.720
the hashtag "#rc3one", "one" spelled out as
a word on Twitter and Mastodon and also on
00:26:00.720 --> 00:26:19.550
the IRC. And now we all sing some songs
together and wait.
00:26:19.550 --> 00:26:37.110
Mike: Hey, everybody, sorry. They are good
laughs.
00:26:37.110 --> 00:26:39.781
H: Welcome back.
M: Thank you. That's not the thing that I
00:26:39.781 --> 00:26:47.240
expected to stop working. Never had a
power supply just stop in the middle. OK,
00:26:47.240 --> 00:26:53.170
well, anyway, I was also going to say that
a lot of the stuff that we get inspiration
00:26:53.170 --> 00:26:59.570
from comes from principles of nonviolence
going where you're not supposed to go,
00:26:59.570 --> 00:27:04.350
crossing borders. This is, again,
trickster tactics. So the tactics of
00:27:04.350 --> 00:27:10.140
civil disobedience are the same kind of
tactics that we use when we infiltrate and
00:27:10.140 --> 00:27:16.650
do something in a business meeting. It's
doing something illegal, something that is
00:27:16.650 --> 00:27:23.650
illegal, but might, of course, have just
ends in mind or might even be the right
00:27:23.650 --> 00:27:30.500
thing to do. So the salt march in India
during the Indian independence movement
00:27:30.500 --> 00:27:38.500
was where people marched to the sea and
made salt, which was illegal because it
00:27:38.500 --> 00:27:44.730
was being taxed by the British. And it's
one of the ways that the British crown was
00:27:44.730 --> 00:27:53.880
suppressing the local populations and
preventing India from having autonomy and
00:27:53.880 --> 00:28:01.380
from being able to break the yoke of
colonialism. So, again, the idea was to
00:28:01.380 --> 00:28:10.360
try to cross those boundaries and to do it
in a way that was visible to the world.
00:28:10.360 --> 00:28:15.910
Another example is the bus protests in the
United States during the civil rights
00:28:15.910 --> 00:28:24.410
movement. This is a woman actually well
before Rosa Parks who this photo here is
00:28:24.410 --> 00:28:30.880
of, there was this woman whose last name
is Morgan, who - this is over a decade
00:28:30.880 --> 00:28:37.010
earlier -, who was riding on the bus and
refused to give up her seat. And so there
00:28:37.010 --> 00:28:42.150
are many, many people doing these sorts of
tactics which were really about crossing
00:28:42.150 --> 00:28:47.280
these borders, crossing these boundaries.
All right. I'm going to move ahead here
00:28:47.280 --> 00:28:56.990
through a few more slides of occupations,
things like the American Indian movement
00:28:56.990 --> 00:29:03.100
that was, sorry, this is Indians of all
tribes occupying Alcatraz saying this is,
00:29:03.100 --> 00:29:08.730
this space is ours. This is after the
prison had left the island. This is just
00:29:08.730 --> 00:29:14.600
off the coast of San Francisco in 1971
and again at Standing Rock,
00:29:14.600 --> 00:29:20.890
same kinds of tactics, occupation,
refusing to move and getting moved by the
00:29:20.890 --> 00:29:28.320
authorities and a display of violence that
shows really that should in theory at
00:29:28.320 --> 00:29:33.540
least be embarrassing for those wielding
power when they claim to be benevolent.
00:29:33.540 --> 00:29:39.510
Billboard alteration, another simple
transgression. It's just like going up
00:29:39.510 --> 00:29:45.440
there and changing a billboard. Street
signs, you can change the street signs in
00:29:45.440 --> 00:29:52.080
Malcolm X Street, which is something that
in the early 90's I was doing in Portland,
00:29:52.080 --> 00:29:57.940
Oregon, and this was in protest of them
not naming a street for Martin Luther
00:29:57.940 --> 00:30:03.190
King. Sometimes it is as simple as
changing an existing sign. Like Hollyweed.
00:30:03.190 --> 00:30:08.080
I show this because it's a successful
campaign. You know, weed is now pretty
00:30:08.080 --> 00:30:14.080
much legal. Well, it's legal in California
and in it will be soon, probably in most
00:30:14.080 --> 00:30:19.790
of the United States, if not all. And
things like banner hangs, again, going
00:30:19.790 --> 00:30:26.090
where you're not supposed to. Getting your
message there. If you don't have the money
00:30:26.090 --> 00:30:32.370
for a banner, you can draw it on a beach.
You can put on a costume like Superbarrio
00:30:32.370 --> 00:30:40.580
in Mexico City. This is after the
earthquake in 1987. This guy showed up
00:30:40.580 --> 00:30:48.830
wearing a wrestling outfit and demanded
rights for the poor people in Mexico. And
00:30:48.830 --> 00:30:55.400
the neighborhoods that weren't being
repaired by the government. And people
00:30:55.400 --> 00:31:01.080
loved him so much and the media loved him
so much. That when he started to challenge
00:31:01.080 --> 00:31:06.890
political leaders to wrestling matches,
they kind of had to show up and talk to
00:31:06.890 --> 00:31:13.070
him. Otherwise, it would be very
embarrassing. So this is an example of
00:31:13.070 --> 00:31:19.390
using some kind of flamboyant tactic in
plain sight to go places you're not
00:31:19.390 --> 00:31:26.420
allowed to go. And then again, the masked
man, the identity here for the Zapatistas
00:31:26.420 --> 00:31:32.840
as a sort of the flip side of that is the
obscured identity, you know. Wearing a
00:31:32.840 --> 00:31:37.010
mask because you have to. Because you're
actually participating in an armed
00:31:37.010 --> 00:31:44.940
rebellion. But also this movement of the
Zapatistas was really thinking very much
00:31:44.940 --> 00:31:50.310
about their media image and about
presenting their revolution to the world.
00:31:50.310 --> 00:31:58.200
And having it exists on a global stage.
Oh, and here is Comandante Ramona, who's
00:31:58.200 --> 00:32:04.590
the leader of the Zapatistas with
Subcomandante Marcos. And again, thinking
00:32:04.590 --> 00:32:14.340
about who is in charge here. And it's this
under five foot tall indigenous elder who
00:32:14.340 --> 00:32:22.920
is running the Zapatista revolution at the
time in 1994. Just one or two more slides
00:32:22.920 --> 00:32:28.010
here of other things. To put it all in
context, here's a group called the Space
00:32:28.010 --> 00:32:34.461
Hijackers with one of their tanks. They
had a few they bought a few tanks. It
00:32:34.461 --> 00:32:40.440
turns out that in the UK it's not that
hard to buy them. And they dressed as
00:32:40.440 --> 00:32:46.070
these sort of comic riot police. And this
was sort of the clown car that distracted
00:32:46.070 --> 00:32:53.180
the real riot police who followed them.
And then let their other tank roll right
00:32:53.180 --> 00:33:01.200
into the largest arms show in the world in
London. So sometimes these plots involve
00:33:01.200 --> 00:33:08.610
decoys, involved many layers in order to
access these venues. But this is a picture
00:33:08.610 --> 00:33:15.020
of a teddy bear catapult. The fun thing
about this, this is that the FTAA, a
00:33:15.020 --> 00:33:23.950
protest in in Quebec City, in Canada. And
the fun thing about this is that it
00:33:23.950 --> 00:33:29.570
created a dilemma for the police. Because
the world leaders are meeting inside the
00:33:29.570 --> 00:33:35.110
fortress city. Literally, it's the only
fortress city in North America. Europe has
00:33:35.110 --> 00:33:40.600
a lot of them. But this is at the top of
the hill. There's a fort in Quebec and
00:33:40.600 --> 00:33:44.920
that's where they were meeting. And, of
course, the antiglobalization activists
00:33:44.920 --> 00:33:51.560
surrounded it and laid siege to it. And
one group built this hilarious catapult
00:33:51.560 --> 00:33:56.200
and were flinging teddy bears in. And the
police were faced with the decision. Do we
00:33:56.200 --> 00:34:01.140
arrest? Do we stop the teddy bears from
being flung in? And do we arrest the
00:34:01.140 --> 00:34:06.110
catapult and then look ridiculous walking
away with it? Or do we let them keep
00:34:06.110 --> 00:34:11.710
flinging? Neither option was a good one.
They arrested the activists. And
00:34:11.710 --> 00:34:18.110
they then there's this hilarious picture
of them hauling around their catapult
00:34:18.110 --> 00:34:24.470
teddy bears. If you can't make a catapult,
you don't have the means, maybe you have
00:34:24.470 --> 00:34:31.730
some bread and you can strap it to your
head like in the Egyptian... the recent
00:34:31.730 --> 00:34:37.490
revolution in the Arab Spring. Where
people were strapping all kinds of things
00:34:37.490 --> 00:34:42.759
to their heads to make a statement about
the violence that was being perpetrated
00:34:42.759 --> 00:34:47.960
against them. Because, of course, the
state is saying that they were creating
00:34:47.960 --> 00:34:53.379
the violence and the activists were
saying, no, we don't even have helmets.
00:34:53.379 --> 00:34:58.470
We're going to just strap whatever we have
to our head. And it became a hilarious
00:34:58.470 --> 00:35:03.980
living meme. Where people are walking
around with all kinds of crazy makeshift
00:35:03.980 --> 00:35:12.579
helmets. One more image, the flying penis
that attacked Garry Kasparov in, I think
00:35:12.579 --> 00:35:19.180
what became a very popular viral video for
its moment. And you can look this up, but
00:35:19.180 --> 00:35:25.300
this is also a warning. Because this
phallus, which is flying, it's like an RC
00:35:25.300 --> 00:35:31.230
helicopter with a dildo attached to it.
And this thing, which was flown against
00:35:31.230 --> 00:35:36.730
Kasparov, who was at the time the
strongest opposition candidate to Putin,
00:35:36.730 --> 00:35:42.410
could very well be the KGB's flying
phallus. So everybody uses these tactics.
00:35:42.410 --> 00:35:46.289
And I say that because, you know, it was,
it became a really popular and
00:35:46.289 --> 00:35:54.880
embarrassing video that was against
Kasparov. And so who knows who was behind
00:35:54.880 --> 00:36:03.609
it. Who was at the controls? So to go back
to what we do with the Yes Men. We are not
00:36:03.609 --> 00:36:08.369
beneath a few phallic metaphors ourselves
because it works really well When you're
00:36:08.369 --> 00:36:17.269
trying to impersonate people in power.
This is an example of one time when we
00:36:17.269 --> 00:36:23.539
went to a conference in Finland
representing the WTO and announced that
00:36:23.539 --> 00:36:31.339
the WTO's solution to the problem of
sweatshops was this thing called the
00:36:31.339 --> 00:36:38.380
"Employee Visualization Appendage". Which
was a three foot long phallus that had a
00:36:38.380 --> 00:36:45.730
kind of heads up display on it, that
allowed you to see your remote workers
00:36:45.730 --> 00:36:50.470
anywhere in the world. And give them
electric shocks. And of course, the
00:36:50.470 --> 00:36:56.539
audience loved it because because they
thought we were the most powerful people
00:36:56.539 --> 00:37:01.490
in the room. At the beginning of the talk,
we were wearing business suits and we made
00:37:01.490 --> 00:37:06.650
a breakaway business suit that I could tear
off of Andy, in one quick movement. And
00:37:06.650 --> 00:37:17.630
then this three foot long inflatable
phallus was instantly deployed with a CO₂
00:37:17.630 --> 00:37:25.510
cartridge. Inflated in a matter of maybe a
second and a half. And this is a story
00:37:25.510 --> 00:37:31.500
from the newspaper, the second
largest daily in Finland, that sort of
00:37:31.500 --> 00:37:44.230
explains a little bit about the WTO
plans. So I don't know, how well you could
00:37:44.230 --> 00:37:53.109
see those videos.Can I get a little
feedback on that? Can anybody tell me how
00:37:53.109 --> 00:37:58.849
easy it was to see some of the video?
H: It looked OK. The sound was great and
00:37:58.849 --> 00:38:01.750
the video was very stuttery. But you
could do it.
00:38:01.750 --> 00:38:06.710
M: OK, so I'll show a little bit more
video. I'm going to actually show... I'm
00:38:06.710 --> 00:38:12.440
going to skip this one. This is probably
the most famous of the things that we've
00:38:12.440 --> 00:38:20.020
done. It's in our second film, which is
called "The Yes Men fix the World". And
00:38:20.020 --> 00:38:29.009
you can find that, it's on You Tube,
other places, file sharing. And this is
00:38:29.009 --> 00:38:38.559
where Andy was representing Dow Chemical
on a live television broadcast on the 20th
00:38:38.559 --> 00:38:45.430
anniversary of the Bhopal catastrophe. And
as Dow Chemical, he took responsibility
00:38:45.430 --> 00:38:51.411
for the disaster and offered to pay back
the victims and meet their demands. And
00:38:51.411 --> 00:38:57.559
clean up the plant site. So sometimes you
use that tactic where we, if we're given
00:38:57.559 --> 00:39:05.339
enough power and we have the right
platform, it's incredibly useful to
00:39:05.339 --> 00:39:10.440
announce that sort of utopian solution. Or
to announce that the company that you're
00:39:10.440 --> 00:39:13.940
targeting is meeting the demands that
activists have been asking for
00:39:13.940 --> 00:39:20.950
years. Because then it puts the company in
a real dilemma.They have no good
00:39:20.950 --> 00:39:26.140
choice. They either have to say "That wasn't
us and we are not fixing the problem that
00:39:26.140 --> 00:39:32.470
we created." Or if they ignore it, then they
have this disinformation out there in the
00:39:32.470 --> 00:39:40.280
universe. That means they have to act. So
I'm going to skip that and I'm going to go
00:39:40.280 --> 00:39:45.589
to this, which is a more slightly more
recent thing. This is also pretty old,
00:39:45.589 --> 00:39:50.990
though. This is, I think in our last Yes
Men movie called 'The Yes Men Are
00:39:50.990 --> 00:40:03.220
Revolting'. And what we're doing here is
creating a replica of the stage at the
00:40:03.220 --> 00:40:09.519
Copenhagen climate conference. So this is
2009, the COP15. And the reason, we just
00:40:09.519 --> 00:40:14.260
wanted to create something that looked
enough like it so that we can make
00:40:14.260 --> 00:40:20.170
Internet videos to embed in our fake
website that would allow us to make
00:40:20.170 --> 00:40:26.420
announcements as the COP15 that would, I
mean as the official climate conference on
00:40:26.420 --> 00:40:32.859
behalf of Canada and Uganda. And I'm going
to play a little video here.
00:40:32.859 --> 00:40:40.990
Newsreader: Well, while Terry was looking
through those documents, the world was
00:40:40.990 --> 00:40:46.090
laughing at Canada because of another one.
It surfaced as a press release or so
00:40:46.090 --> 00:40:52.759
everyone believed. But soon it was clear
Canada had been punked. Leslie McKinnon
00:40:52.759 --> 00:40:56.589
reports.
McKinnon: First, there was this demo
00:40:56.589 --> 00:41:03.190
inside parliament. 20 or so protesters who
caused a minor stir. Then this Greenpeace
00:41:03.190 --> 00:41:09.579
paper, but that got mostly reported as a
breach of security story. Neither managed
00:41:09.579 --> 00:41:14.549
to get Canada's climate policy as much
attention in Copenhagen as today's
00:41:14.549 --> 00:41:20.849
multilayered hoax. The day began with this
press release announcing the astonishing
00:41:20.849 --> 00:41:27.849
news that Canada was suddenly doubling its
emission cuts to 40 percent below 1990
00:41:27.849 --> 00:41:35.190
levels by 2020 and that it would
generously pony up 13 billion dollars to
00:41:35.190 --> 00:41:39.999
be allocated to the African countries for
emissions reduction. Then there was this
00:41:39.999 --> 00:41:45.480
article about it on what looked like the
Wall Street Journal's website. See then
00:41:45.480 --> 00:41:51.220
this, a news conference purportedly by the
Ugandan delegate, posted on what looked
00:41:51.220 --> 00:41:54.960
like the Copenhagen conference website.
Delegate: Dearest Delegates.
00:41:54.960 --> 00:42:00.339
McKinnon: It looked amazingly real until
the speaker compared Canada's oil reserves
00:42:00.339 --> 00:42:03.249
to a loaded gun.
Delegate: ... and seemed ready to pull the
00:42:03.249 --> 00:42:08.920
trigger on millions of us around the
globe. You left us no choice but to deal
00:42:08.920 --> 00:42:10.980
as criminal.
McKinnon: But a press release from
00:42:10.980 --> 00:42:15.569
Environment Canada followed, that
seemingly deplored the spoof releases and
00:42:15.569 --> 00:42:22.030
false hopes. This turned out to be a hoax.
In fact, it was all a hoax.
00:42:22.030 --> 00:42:24.200
Person 1 in video: I mean, you think it's
a game, but it's not a game. It's a
00:42:24.200 --> 00:42:26.190
serious situation.
Person 2: You're playing games. I'm not
00:42:26.190 --> 00:42:28.160
playing games.
McKinnon: Truth can be stranger than
00:42:28.160 --> 00:42:32.390
fiction. This is the prime minister's
spokesman blaiming the stunt on Stephen
00:42:32.390 --> 00:42:34.130
Elbo (?) of the environmental group
[inaudible].
00:42:34.130 --> 00:42:38.210
Person 2: And I want an apology.
McKinnon: And this is also the real thing.
00:42:38.210 --> 00:42:41.430
Jim Prentice: I was in the plenary session
at the time that this happened, and I
00:42:41.430 --> 00:42:43.960
really can't comment any further.
Interviewee: Why is it a hoax that Canada
00:42:43.960 --> 00:42:46.609
is going to do the right thing?
McKinnon: This environmentalist thinks the
00:42:46.609 --> 00:42:50.560
whole elaborate joke worth.
Interviewee: I had nothing to do with this
00:42:50.560 --> 00:42:52.299
one, but I'm really happy that they did
it.
00:42:52.299 --> 00:42:55.749
McKinnon: As to who pulled this off. There
are reports tonight it's a group of
00:42:55.749 --> 00:43:00.019
pranksters who call themselves the Yes
Men. They say they'll have a press
00:43:00.019 --> 00:43:05.470
conference tomorrow, if you can believe
that. Leslie McKinnon, CBC News, Ottawa.
00:43:05.470 --> 00:43:09.859
Newsreader: Well that climate related
stunt is one of many that have happened
00:43:09.859 --> 00:43:13.369
lately.
Bonanno: OK, so just to wrap that little
00:43:13.369 --> 00:43:18.910
thing up. You can see here that we're just
in a basement. Basically, these
00:43:18.910 --> 00:43:23.700
microphones are just made out of pipe
cleaners and electrical tape. We printed
00:43:23.700 --> 00:43:29.460
out a bunch of you know, we had to make
our own teleprompter, print out a bunch of
00:43:29.460 --> 00:43:36.670
the logos and paste them up on the wall.
We use the reverse shots of the audience
00:43:36.670 --> 00:43:42.730
for the videos from other videos that we
found already on their website, and it
00:43:42.730 --> 00:43:47.750
created this kind of illusion where we
could do both the big conference room and
00:43:47.750 --> 00:43:55.039
the press briefing room fairly easily. So
we made several videos and then eventually
00:43:55.039 --> 00:44:00.960
we had the press conference the next day,
which highlighted mostly the position of
00:44:00.960 --> 00:44:07.859
the Ugandan participants in this project,
particularly Kodili Chandia, who's there
00:44:07.859 --> 00:44:17.260
sitting in the middle in that red suit. So
I just wanted to show that, because it's
00:44:17.260 --> 00:44:21.630
really interesting. And that's, again,
it's 10 years old and it was effective at
00:44:21.630 --> 00:44:26.890
the... at that moment. And there weren't a
lot of people talking about fake news at
00:44:26.890 --> 00:44:34.030
that time. But something that people are
really concerned about now is whether
00:44:34.030 --> 00:44:39.000
these tactics work anymore. And I think it
just depends on the context. We found that
00:44:39.000 --> 00:44:44.319
sometimes they work really well. In fact,
we had a successful action a few weeks ago
00:44:44.319 --> 00:44:50.349
that got a lot of attention for the Bank
of England's fiscal policy. But they don't
00:44:50.349 --> 00:44:55.890
really work very well against a rogue head
of state like Donald Trump or something.
00:44:55.890 --> 00:45:04.390
There's no amount of satire or kind of
like utopian thinking that can work on
00:45:04.390 --> 00:45:12.940
that... on that kind of wildcard. So just
to end the talking part or the ranting
00:45:12.940 --> 00:45:20.680
part, this here we have an image of Renard
the fox, which is, of course, something
00:45:20.680 --> 00:45:25.109
I'd like to leave you with. And I think
getting in touch with all of our trickster
00:45:25.109 --> 00:45:29.640
roots is a good thing to do, because when
we find the roots, we also find that we
00:45:29.640 --> 00:45:34.769
have common ground with everybody else who
has trickster characters in their cultural
00:45:34.769 --> 00:45:42.559
histories. And this is forever confused,
only confuse from below. This is one of
00:45:42.559 --> 00:45:49.359
our primary tenets of Confuse-ianism. And
we've started a school called the
00:45:49.359 --> 00:45:55.809
Trickster Academy. We can talk about that
later. OK, I'm going to stop sharing and
00:45:55.809 --> 00:46:00.420
talk to you in person.
Herald: I think I'm back.
00:46:00.420 --> 00:46:03.710
B: Great. Sorry, that talk took so long.
I just…
00:46:03.710 --> 00:46:05.819
H: That's OK.
You had a lot of interesting stuff to say.
00:46:05.819 --> 00:46:09.000
B: I got ambitious with saying things.
00:46:09.000 --> 00:46:14.162
H: And I think the phrase "the KGB's
flying phallus" is one for the ages.
00:46:14.162 --> 00:46:17.339
B: Yeah. Yeah. I mean maybe the phallus
00:46:17.339 --> 00:46:21.880
people are listen are here now and can
come forward and ask a question or tell us
00:46:21.880 --> 00:46:29.040
who they are. But as far as I know, nobody
knows. Could still be the KGB.
00:46:29.040 --> 00:46:33.040
H: All right. We have the first questions.
Questions.
00:46:33.040 --> 00:46:36.166
Why are you guys always such assholes?
00:46:36.166 --> 00:46:39.001
B: Yeah, that's a really good question.
00:46:39.001 --> 00:46:43.012
We are always such assholes because
00:46:43.012 --> 00:46:47.650
we don't care about
what people think about us.
00:46:47.650 --> 00:46:52.710
I was once at a party where me and my
brother had built this giant tower of
00:46:52.710 --> 00:46:57.381
chairs in in the swimming pool. Because it
was like this fancy place. We didn't get
00:46:57.381 --> 00:47:02.849
to go to fancy places like that, and we
dive off the giant tower of chairs. It was
00:47:02.849 --> 00:47:06.200
great fun and we thought we knew how to
have a party, but apparently people were
00:47:06.200 --> 00:47:12.420
really offended and then somebody lost
their golden necklace in the pool. And so
00:47:12.420 --> 00:47:17.630
we, of course, were swimming and we went
and found it for the guy. And he was so
00:47:17.630 --> 00:47:23.559
excited and so overjoyed. He said, I don't
care what everybody else thinks. You guys
00:47:23.559 --> 00:47:28.980
are OK. So I've always remembered that
word of wisdom. And I thought, OK, our
00:47:28.980 --> 00:47:34.599
goal is not to make friends with people.
Our goal is to get to that place. In fact,
00:47:34.599 --> 00:47:38.660
we can be the fall guy for a big
organization that's worried about the
00:47:38.660 --> 00:47:44.670
reputation. So like if the Sierra Club,
big environmental organization, wants to
00:47:44.670 --> 00:47:49.900
use the kind of tactics that we do, but is
worried that their membership will gonna
00:47:49.900 --> 00:47:54.599
be unpleased, then they can get in touch
with us and we'll do it for them.
00:47:54.599 --> 00:47:58.999
H: So that's how you finance working on
The Yes Men full time?
00:47:58.999 --> 00:48:04.590
B: I actually finance it by working at a
university, so I still teach at
00:48:04.590 --> 00:48:10.119
university, but Jacques more than I has
financed it through things like that. And,
00:48:10.119 --> 00:48:15.269
and some of the actions–quite a few of
the actions–have been financed by, by
00:48:15.269 --> 00:48:19.269
large NGOs like the Greenpeaces of the
world.
00:48:19.269 --> 00:48:25.089
H: Nice. So people on the Internet want to
know if you've ever had to go to jail for
00:48:25.089 --> 00:48:29.380
your actions.
B: I've never had to go to jail for these
00:48:29.380 --> 00:48:35.630
kinds of actions.
H: You went to jail for unrelated reasons?
00:48:35.630 --> 00:48:41.360
B: I went I went to jail for ice skating
once. Seriously, come on. New York City.
00:48:41.360 --> 00:48:42.920
I just, you know…
00:48:42.920 --> 00:48:48.209
I highly recommend ice skating on
Prospect Park Lake.
00:48:48.209 --> 00:48:50.320
It was originally built for ice skating.
00:48:50.320 --> 00:48:53.426
You know there's pictures of hundreds
of people doing it in the 19th century.
00:48:53.426 --> 00:48:56.119
But if you do it now, you get arrested.
00:48:56.119 --> 00:48:59.071
And they actually take you in overnight.
00:48:59.071 --> 00:49:04.379
So you get to spend a night in jail.
Which, by the way,
00:49:04.379 --> 00:49:08.562
is a very... it's not exclusive,
but it's expensive.
00:49:08.562 --> 00:49:12.430
It costs the taxpayers $1700 per night.
00:49:12.430 --> 00:49:15.512
H: It's a pretty good hotel for this kind of money.
00:49:15.512 --> 00:49:21.329
B: Yes. Yes. It's like a five star.
00:49:21.329 --> 00:49:26.070
H: So did you read any book
about social engineering
00:49:26.070 --> 00:49:29.956
or did you just wing it until
you figured out all the tricks?
00:49:29.956 --> 00:49:31.379
B: It was, sort of, yeah.
00:49:31.379 --> 00:49:34.705
It was like reverse engineering the
social engineering for us.
00:49:34.705 --> 00:49:39.860
Because it was figuring it out as we went,
00:49:39.860 --> 00:49:45.320
but then starting to discover
a world of people doing things
00:49:45.320 --> 00:49:48.181
and yeah reading about it.
00:49:48.181 --> 00:49:52.289
So, and there are so many people
doing so many amazing things.
00:49:52.289 --> 00:49:55.369
I mean, I'm loving following
some of these people now on
00:49:55.369 --> 00:50:00.180
even Youtubers who do stuff like this.
00:50:00.180 --> 00:50:02.364
So yeah, but there are a few books.
00:50:02.364 --> 00:50:07.165
I'm reading a great book about early
con men right now that's really fun.
00:50:07.165 --> 00:50:11.048
It's like… I can't remember the title.
I'd have to grab it to read the title.
00:50:11.048 --> 00:50:15.298
but yeah, constantly constant education.
00:50:15.298 --> 00:50:19.927
And also, I think it's necessary also
to always have innovation.
00:50:19.927 --> 00:50:26.253
You know, but ultimately, it seems like
it does boil down to the one thing
00:50:26.253 --> 00:50:31.848
and that is understanding
what somebody wants, right?
00:50:31.848 --> 00:50:34.575
Like if you know who you're talking to,
00:50:34.575 --> 00:50:36.775
and you know what they want,
00:50:36.775 --> 00:50:40.519
then you can build a world
that delivers it to them
00:50:40.519 --> 00:50:44.702
and that seems to deliver to them
the thing that they desire.
00:50:44.702 --> 00:50:48.045
And that is…
That usually works really well.
00:50:48.045 --> 00:50:50.639
You know, it's a…
00:50:50.639 --> 00:50:53.409
even on people who are expecting it.
00:50:53.409 --> 00:50:55.850
laughing
00:50:55.850 --> 00:50:57.890
H: All right,
the next one is a trivia question,
00:50:57.890 --> 00:50:59.700
which I really enjoy as a concept.
00:50:59.700 --> 00:51:03.300
What are the top three
most impactful events in world history
00:51:03.300 --> 00:51:06.701
that you can summarize
in the fewest words possible?
00:51:06.701 --> 00:51:10.178
Sounds like a game show. I like it.
00:51:10.178 --> 00:51:12.398
B: Top three
00:51:12.398 --> 00:51:13.940
H: Fewest words
00:51:13.940 --> 00:51:15.939
B: In human history?
00:51:15.939 --> 00:51:18.989
H: In the world history.
B: In world history.
00:51:18.989 --> 00:51:23.619
H: So I guess it can include
geological events before humans.
00:51:23.619 --> 00:51:30.188
B: Yeah, I kind of want to say, you know,
Big Bang, even though I don't know.
00:51:30.188 --> 00:51:34.437
That's what I've been told,
I don't totally really understand it, but…
00:51:34.437 --> 00:51:38.351
Big Bang. How many words am I left?
00:51:38.351 --> 00:51:40.690
H: I think as few as possible.
00:51:40.690 --> 00:51:48.504
B: Big Bang, asteroid, Anthropocene.
00:51:48.504 --> 00:51:53.361
H: Very good.
I'm sure you won, whatever the game was.
00:51:53.361 --> 00:51:57.650
B: I feel like I won.
I feel great about that answer.
00:51:57.650 --> 00:52:01.110
H: How did you guys
come up with the human candle idea?
00:52:01.110 --> 00:52:03.340
And maybe explain the human candle idea.
00:52:03.340 --> 00:52:05.900
B: So the human candle idea was...
00:52:05.900 --> 00:52:09.299
Actually this goes back to the very
first slide! Thanks for the call back.
00:52:09.299 --> 00:52:14.640
When I'm holding up the
business card that says Exxon.
00:52:14.640 --> 00:52:18.747
We were at a conference
representing ExxonMobil
00:52:18.747 --> 00:52:22.224
in Calgary, Alberta,
at the stampede grounds
00:52:22.224 --> 00:52:25.976
which is where they have
the largest rodeo in the world,
00:52:25.976 --> 00:52:29.480
and they also have Canada's
largest oil conference.
00:52:29.480 --> 00:52:34.277
And we had convinced them to host us
00:52:34.277 --> 00:52:40.530
by telling them that Lee Raymond,
who is the former CEO of ExxonMobil,
00:52:40.530 --> 00:52:45.350
would go to their conference.
So I claim that I was from a PR agency,
00:52:45.350 --> 00:52:49.061
got in touch with the people
running the conference.
00:52:49.061 --> 00:52:51.915
I had a domain name that looked like
00:52:51.915 --> 00:52:55.380
Hill+Knowlton or Burson-Marsteller.
I can't remember who.
00:52:55.380 --> 00:52:58.180
One of the big PR companies
that tends to do this kind of
00:52:58.180 --> 00:53:02.845
high level, you know, bullshitting.
00:53:02.845 --> 00:53:08.670
And so I promised them that
Lee Raymond had a very important
00:53:08.670 --> 00:53:12.120
announcement to make that would really
put their conference on the map.
00:53:12.120 --> 00:53:15.568
And, of course, they were excited about it.
But then…
00:53:15.568 --> 00:53:17.935
This is the tricky part.
00:53:17.935 --> 00:53:20.396
At that point, I had to tell them that,
00:53:20.396 --> 00:53:22.795
you know, they had to keep it secret
00:53:22.795 --> 00:53:26.851
until just before the announcement because
00:53:26.851 --> 00:53:31.561
what he was going to say had
such repercussions for the global economy
00:53:31.561 --> 00:53:34.549
that they could very well be breaking
00:53:34.549 --> 00:53:38.461
various kinds of SEC
(that's like, stock market) laws,
00:53:38.461 --> 00:53:41.329
if they didn't embargo the information.
00:53:41.329 --> 00:53:45.817
So I said, this is important.
You're part of a web of, you know,
00:53:45.817 --> 00:53:47.849
You're part of a bubble of secrecy.
We have to maintain the secret.
00:53:47.849 --> 00:53:52.919
Because as soon as people know that
he's going to make a big announcement,
00:53:52.919 --> 00:53:56.480
they're going to freak out, because
he had a new position with the government.
00:53:56.480 --> 00:54:00.009
And so they bought it.
And, in fact, this is one of those
00:54:00.009 --> 00:54:05.130
counterintuitive things where you would
think that telling them that you have this
00:54:05.130 --> 00:54:09.349
great honeypot for their conference, this
guy who other people are going to register
00:54:09.349 --> 00:54:16.950
to see at their conference, you think that
that then when you tell them that they
00:54:16.950 --> 00:54:22.539
can't tell anyone that it would be
immediately blow you up, but it doesn't
00:54:22.539 --> 00:54:25.757
because they feel like they're on
the inside of something big then.
00:54:25.757 --> 00:54:27.952
And so they kept the secret.
00:54:27.952 --> 00:54:31.065
And then what we decided
we're going to announce was that
00:54:31.065 --> 00:54:35.981
ExxonMobil had a climate change solution.
00:54:35.981 --> 00:54:42.746
Which was to turn the humans
who die as a result of climate change
00:54:42.746 --> 00:54:46.543
into a new biofuel called Vivoleum.
00:54:46.543 --> 00:54:48.880
And so we had an animated thing.
00:54:48.880 --> 00:54:51.439
It's in our second movie,
The Yes Men Fix the World.
00:54:51.439 --> 00:54:54.497
But that idea came from us thinking about
00:54:54.497 --> 00:54:59.385
what is the logical extension
of ExxonMobil's climate policy?
00:54:59.385 --> 00:55:01.687
Because at the time,
it had just been revealed
00:55:01.687 --> 00:55:04.634
that ExxonMobil had done all of this
00:55:04.634 --> 00:55:12.846
very shady suppression of knowledge
about the about climate change.
00:55:12.846 --> 00:55:19.309
ExxonMobil had scientists working for them
in the 70s that knew that climate change
00:55:19.309 --> 00:55:24.343
was huge problem and they had decided to
suppress the information themselves.
00:55:24.343 --> 00:55:28.201
And then they went on a protracted campaign
00:55:28.201 --> 00:55:32.088
of suppressing the information
at the federal level in the United States
00:55:32.088 --> 00:55:33.732
and at the global level.
00:55:33.732 --> 00:55:35.991
So they became the target,
00:55:35.991 --> 00:55:38.500
and this announcement became the…
what we were going to do.
00:55:38.500 --> 00:55:42.231
And then, of course, when we're at the
conference, at the very last minute,
00:55:42.231 --> 00:55:46.464
Lee Raymond, the former CEO of ExxonMobil,
00:55:46.464 --> 00:55:50.126
who's now has a federal position
with the US government,
00:55:50.126 --> 00:55:54.781
Doesn't show up, and
a substitute takes his place on the stage.
00:55:54.781 --> 00:55:56.128
Then that's. Yeah.
00:55:56.128 --> 00:55:59.050
So did I answer the question?
I can't remember.
00:55:59.050 --> 00:56:02.193
H: I think someone wanted to know
how you you came up with the idea.
00:56:02.193 --> 00:56:03.132
H: But…
B: Yeah, that was...
00:56:03.132 --> 00:56:04.689
H: But that is also difficult to answer,
right?
00:56:04.689 --> 00:56:10.189
B: I think it was really just shooting the
shit, as they say, with with some friends.
00:56:10.189 --> 00:56:15.914
And as I remember, it was a guy called Bob
Ostertag, who worked with us for a while,
00:56:15.914 --> 00:56:23.577
who is actually a more of like a musician.
And, you know, anyway…
00:56:23.577 --> 00:56:28.333
He was the one, I think,
who really pushed that idea forward.
00:56:28.333 --> 00:56:31.740
And it turned out to be a really fun one.
laughs
00:56:31.740 --> 00:56:35.754
H: I mean it's basically a direct callback
to the Jonathan Swift stuff, right?
00:56:35.754 --> 00:56:41.039
You really get very into people's bodies.
00:56:41.039 --> 00:56:46.828
B: It is. It's a classic. I mean,
babies, people eating them, cannibalism…
00:56:46.828 --> 00:56:48.297
I mean, these are like…
00:56:48.297 --> 00:56:53.558
You know, they hit you. They hit you.
Right where it, right where you feel it.
00:56:53.558 --> 00:56:57.556
chuckles
H: Yeah. All right. Another question is:
00:56:57.556 --> 00:57:01.640
Do you worry at all that your
campaigns erode trust in the media?
00:57:01.640 --> 00:57:05.300
Or do you just think that they should
maybe pay some more attention?
00:57:05.300 --> 00:57:07.934
B: Yeah, no, we don't worry
about that at all. I mean, it's…
00:57:07.934 --> 00:57:11.960
It's weird because for a while, there
was something to worry about there,
00:57:11.960 --> 00:57:14.787
because people's, y'know,
trust in the media.
00:57:14.787 --> 00:57:22.198
I mean, now it's just a… it's just
a weird landscape, totally bizarre.
00:57:22.198 --> 00:57:25.451
I mean, in terms of what people believe
or don't believe.
00:57:25.451 --> 00:57:28.982
One of the things that
we do all the time, though, is
00:57:28.982 --> 00:57:34.998
reveal our hoaxes immediately
after we perpetrate them.
00:57:34.998 --> 00:57:38.814
And so the result is that
there is actually more information
00:57:38.814 --> 00:57:44.741
as opposed to, you know,
what we see as fake news
00:57:44.741 --> 00:57:47.304
which is people
who are perpetrating a hoax,
00:57:47.304 --> 00:57:51.483
and they mean for it to
exist for eternity, ideally.
00:57:51.483 --> 00:57:55.326
Like, if you create a falsehood,
and you're not revealing it,
00:57:55.326 --> 00:58:00.601
that's the type of thing
that the advertising industry,
00:58:00.601 --> 00:58:06.993
PR agencies have done, and
governments have done for centuries.
00:58:06.993 --> 00:58:13.004
But our types of hoaxes
are meant to be revealed right away.
00:58:13.004 --> 00:58:16.504
H: All right. I have a mysterious question.
B: Yes!
00:58:16.504 --> 00:58:19.746
H: Oh, OK. Now I understand. What are
your thoughts about the orange man?
00:58:19.746 --> 00:58:22.388
And I've just realized that
that's Donald Trump.
00:58:22.388 --> 00:58:26.705
B: Oh, I don't know if I would have gone...
H: Or just unrelated orange person,
00:58:26.705 --> 00:58:29.550
if you know any.
B: Yeah, I mean, it's confusing for me
00:58:29.550 --> 00:58:34.200
because an orange man. I started thinking
about Poland and about there's all kinds
00:58:34.200 --> 00:58:41.059
of orange people here and there, but
chuckles Or orange movements. Anyway, the
00:58:41.059 --> 00:58:46.579
orange man, oh, God, no. Horrible.
H: All right, so the Dutch national
00:58:46.579 --> 00:58:50.090
football team, what's your opinion? That's
different orange men, right?
00:58:50.090 --> 00:58:55.170
B: Yes, the Dutch football. I have to,
have to be a fan because my mother is
00:58:55.170 --> 00:59:00.059
Dutch. What can I say? And also, it's like
a tiny country and I like kind of an
00:59:00.059 --> 00:59:04.859
underdog that still out…like…does really
ridiculously well. I mean, I don't know.
00:59:04.859 --> 00:59:09.548
I don't know. I'm not…
Football is awesome. Yes. Why not?
00:59:09.548 --> 00:59:12.619
Nothing that wrong with it.
chuckles
00:59:12.619 --> 00:59:16.900
H: Is there a reason you don't have a bulb
in your socket on your ceiling?
00:59:16.900 --> 00:59:21.839
B: Oh, yeah.
It's because I moved it to here.
00:59:21.839 --> 00:59:24.420
laughs
H: Ahh, nice.
00:59:24.420 --> 00:59:30.940
B: This is my studio lighting and I got
rid of that one and I created this one.
00:59:30.940 --> 00:59:35.029
H: It looks great. I also have
all the lights pointed at me now.
00:59:35.029 --> 00:59:38.910
B: chuckles
Thanks for that question. I like it.
00:59:38.910 --> 00:59:44.220
H: Here.That's interesting. Can we trace
the lineage of the tire rubber ducks into
00:59:44.220 --> 00:59:49.249
Chinese umbrellas back to that taped
bread? I think it's about these helmets.
00:59:49.249 --> 00:59:52.700
B: Yes. Yes, definitely.
chuckles
00:59:52.700 --> 00:59:59.869
I don't know actually. If anybody can do
that, do let me know. The empty bulb,
00:59:59.869 --> 01:00:06.150
though. I'm putting my finger on right
now. Here. Reminds me, though, that this
01:00:06.150 --> 01:00:11.450
is like another… I remember the CIA
sabotage manual that they were dropping on
01:00:11.450 --> 01:00:18.190
El Salvador…actually, on Nicaragua. Sorry.
Where they were encouraging people to like
01:00:18.190 --> 01:00:24.033
sabotage everywhere because at the time it
was, y'know, communist. And so the idea
01:00:24.033 --> 01:00:29.570
was that if people broke everything, then
the country would come to a standstill.
01:00:29.570 --> 01:00:34.420
So they suggested things like taking the
light bulb out and putting a coin in there
01:00:34.420 --> 01:00:39.739
and putting the light bulb back in. So, I
don't know. You know, everybody uses these
01:00:39.739 --> 01:00:48.879
tactics. Again, thinking about the
CIA's flying penis. You know.
01:00:48.879 --> 01:00:53.720
H: Oh, now it is the CIA.
B: Yeah, CIA sabotage manuals.
01:00:53.720 --> 01:00:57.840
H: Maybe one last question.
Do you have any projects in the pipeline?
01:00:57.840 --> 01:01:01.499
I mean, I assume you don't want
to talk about them, but you can.
01:01:01.499 --> 01:01:07.369
B: You know, we have a movie about walls
that we're working on. But we took a
01:01:07.369 --> 01:01:14.490
hiatus with COVID. And we have a whole
bunch of other things that are in the
01:01:14.490 --> 01:01:17.580
works. Some of them we're doing
independently, not as the Yes Men. But I'm
01:01:17.580 --> 01:01:24.119
doing stuff and Andy is doing stuff. And
yeah, we're also always trying to
01:01:24.119 --> 01:01:31.500
recalibrate because, you know, the terrain
is changing so quickly. And it's such a
01:01:31.500 --> 01:01:36.274
strange and interesting moment,
particularly in the United States,
01:01:36.274 --> 01:01:40.740
but also all over the world.
H: Yeah, there's a... I mean, there's many
01:01:40.740 --> 01:01:45.880
questions that are along the lines of
like, how do you feel about satire in this
01:01:45.880 --> 01:01:50.950
year when it's just seems like half the
news is satire. Right? Or at least it
01:01:50.950 --> 01:01:56.750
feels just completely unhinged. Right?
B: Yeah. And I don't think a lot of times
01:01:56.750 --> 01:02:00.660
it doesn't... I don't think satire about
Donald Trump works. I don't even think
01:02:00.660 --> 01:02:04.960
that any of this stuff that was on
Saturday Night Live was funny. You know,
01:02:04.960 --> 01:02:09.729
where they impersonate the people in the
administration. It's just like worse
01:02:09.729 --> 01:02:15.119
versions of the real thing that's really
funny if you could actually laugh about it
01:02:15.119 --> 01:02:19.869
it if it wasn't real. I mean, it must
have been the same, like looking at Hitler
01:02:19.869 --> 01:02:23.219
in the in the 30's, you know, like you
probably look at that and think this
01:02:23.219 --> 01:02:30.309
cannot be real. But, you know, here's this
crazy looking guy saying crazy shit. And
01:02:30.309 --> 01:02:34.881
so then what do you do? And I think that
you you choose different tactics for a
01:02:34.881 --> 01:02:38.569
while, but you fight.
H: It seems like the funniest thing to do
01:02:38.569 --> 01:02:42.789
for him, would to just pretend he's giving
a coherent speech. Right?
01:02:42.789 --> 01:02:46.755
B: Totally. Yeah. I mean, it is like…
laughs
01:02:46.755 --> 01:02:48.508
He keeps outdoing himself.
01:02:48.508 --> 01:02:53.254
What happened in the final weeks of
the campaign and just after,
01:02:53.254 --> 01:02:59.677
with Giuliani and the Four Seasons Total
Landscaping, and the face melting off,
01:02:59.677 --> 01:03:02.669
and the… I mean, there were so
many things where you just like
01:03:02.669 --> 01:03:09.911
the levels of crazy theater were…
Oh man. I… Yeah. Anyway.
01:03:09.911 --> 01:03:14.286
H: I mean, you could have definitely just
claimed that as a Yes Men stunt.
01:03:14.286 --> 01:03:20.152
B: Definitely. Definitely.
It was a stroke of genius that. laughs
01:03:20.152 --> 01:03:21.983
H: Yes. Alright, maybe a last question.
01:03:21.983 --> 01:03:27.029
Do you have any things
that failed spectacularly that you…
01:03:27.029 --> 01:03:28.970
B: Yes!
H: …want reveal to the world?
01:03:28.970 --> 01:03:34.410
B: Yes. We have many things that have
failed spectacularly. And there's some of
01:03:34.410 --> 01:03:39.850
them that you can read about on the Yes
Men website, which is at theyesmen.org.
01:03:39.850 --> 01:03:42.802
And one in particular that
I recommend reading about
01:03:42.802 --> 01:03:48.585
that we documented, at least in text,
is an event where we impersonated a
01:03:48.585 --> 01:03:54.354
group called the International Web Police
who claimed to be securing the Internet.
01:03:54.354 --> 01:03:59.571
This is back in the late 90's,
or around 2002 or something.
01:03:59.571 --> 01:04:07.008
Anyway, it was a funny event. And… yes.
I'm not going to get into it here.
01:04:07.008 --> 01:04:11.776
But it amuses me just to think about it.
chuckles
01:04:11.776 --> 01:04:15.842
H: All right. Thank you very much.
01:04:15.842 --> 01:04:17.956
B: Thank you so much!
H: Somehow you have disappeared from my screen.
01:04:17.956 --> 01:04:21.339
All right. Now there you are.
Well, thank you.
01:04:21.339 --> 01:04:22.884
B: Thank you!
01:04:22.884 --> 01:04:27.711
H: I think we will go offline
at some random point now.
01:04:27.711 --> 01:04:29.577
Goodbye, Internet.
01:04:29.577 --> 01:04:30.666
B: Goodbye.
01:04:30.666 --> 01:04:31.639
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01:04:31.639 --> 01:05:09.880
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