1 00:00:01,095 --> 00:00:02,286 Fourteen years ago, 2 00:00:02,310 --> 00:00:05,476 I stood in the Supreme Court to argue my first case. 3 00:00:05,500 --> 00:00:06,889 And it wasn't just any case, 4 00:00:06,913 --> 00:00:08,744 it was a case that experts called 5 00:00:08,768 --> 00:00:12,400 one of the most important cases the Supreme Court had ever heard. 6 00:00:12,752 --> 00:00:16,021 It considered whether Guantanamo was constitutional, 7 00:00:16,045 --> 00:00:19,542 and whether the Geneva Conventions applied to the war on terror. 8 00:00:19,566 --> 00:00:22,709 It was just a handful of years after the horrific attacks 9 00:00:22,733 --> 00:00:23,933 of September 11. 10 00:00:24,241 --> 00:00:27,331 The Supreme Court had seven Republican appointees 11 00:00:27,355 --> 00:00:29,204 and two Democratic ones, 12 00:00:29,228 --> 00:00:32,770 and my client happened to be Osama bin Laden's driver. 13 00:00:33,147 --> 00:00:36,131 My opponent was the Solicitor General of the United States, 14 00:00:36,155 --> 00:00:38,028 America's top courtroom lawyer. 15 00:00:38,052 --> 00:00:39,974 He had argued 35 cases. 16 00:00:39,998 --> 00:00:42,268 I wasn't even 35 years old. 17 00:00:42,292 --> 00:00:43,847 And to make matters worse, 18 00:00:43,871 --> 00:00:47,045 the Senate, for the first time since the Civil War, 19 00:00:47,069 --> 00:00:51,869 passed a bill to try and remove the case from the docket of the Supreme Court. 20 00:00:51,893 --> 00:00:53,520 Now the speaking coaches say 21 00:00:53,544 --> 00:00:56,700 I'm supposed to build tension and not tell you what happens. 22 00:00:57,165 --> 00:00:58,847 But the thing is, we won. 23 00:00:58,871 --> 00:01:00,045 How? 24 00:01:00,069 --> 00:01:02,772 Today, I'm going to talk about how to win an argument, 25 00:01:02,796 --> 00:01:04,796 at the Supreme Court or anywhere. 26 00:01:05,201 --> 00:01:09,463 The conventional wisdom is that you speak with confidence. 27 00:01:09,487 --> 00:01:11,133 That's how you persuade. 28 00:01:11,642 --> 00:01:13,095 I think that's wrong. 29 00:01:13,119 --> 00:01:16,367 I think confidence is the enemy of persuasion. 30 00:01:16,738 --> 00:01:18,815 Persuasion is about empathy, 31 00:01:18,839 --> 00:01:20,839 about getting into people's heads. 32 00:01:21,228 --> 00:01:23,172 That's what makes TED what it is. 33 00:01:23,196 --> 00:01:25,387 It's why you're listening to this talk. 34 00:01:25,411 --> 00:01:27,347 You could have read it on the cold page, 35 00:01:27,371 --> 00:01:28,529 but you didn't. 36 00:01:28,553 --> 00:01:30,712 Same thing with Supreme Court arguments -- 37 00:01:30,736 --> 00:01:33,768 we write written briefs with cold pages, 38 00:01:33,792 --> 00:01:35,537 but we also have an oral argument. 39 00:01:35,561 --> 00:01:39,543 We don't just have a system in which the justices write questions 40 00:01:39,567 --> 00:01:40,871 and you write answers. 41 00:01:40,895 --> 00:01:42,085 Why? 42 00:01:42,109 --> 00:01:44,529 Because argument is about interaction. 43 00:01:44,553 --> 00:01:48,066 I want to take you behind the scenes to tell you what I did, 44 00:01:48,090 --> 00:01:50,479 and how these lessons are generalizable. 45 00:01:50,503 --> 00:01:53,129 Not just for winning an argument in court, 46 00:01:53,153 --> 00:01:55,153 but for something far more profound. 47 00:01:55,704 --> 00:01:58,387 Now obviously, it's going to involve practice, 48 00:01:58,411 --> 00:02:00,291 but not just any practice will do. 49 00:02:00,315 --> 00:02:02,476 My first practice session for Guantanamo, 50 00:02:02,500 --> 00:02:03,668 I flew up to Harvard 51 00:02:03,692 --> 00:02:08,243 and had all these legendary professors throwing questions at me. 52 00:02:08,267 --> 00:02:11,783 And even though I had read everything, rehearsed a million times, 53 00:02:11,807 --> 00:02:14,014 I wasn't persuading anyone. 54 00:02:14,038 --> 00:02:16,164 My arguments weren't resonating. 55 00:02:16,188 --> 00:02:17,387 I was desperate. 56 00:02:17,411 --> 00:02:18,903 I had done everything possible, 57 00:02:18,927 --> 00:02:21,347 read every book, rehearsed a million times, 58 00:02:21,371 --> 00:02:23,129 and it wasn't going anywhere. 59 00:02:23,153 --> 00:02:25,272 So ultimately, I stumbled on this guy -- 60 00:02:25,296 --> 00:02:27,582 he was an acting coach, he wasn't even a lawyer. 61 00:02:27,606 --> 00:02:29,836 He'd never set foot in the Supreme Court. 62 00:02:29,860 --> 00:02:33,388 And he came into my office one day wearing a billowy white shirt 63 00:02:33,412 --> 00:02:35,420 and a bolo tie, 64 00:02:35,444 --> 00:02:38,944 and he looked at me with my folded arms and said, 65 00:02:38,968 --> 00:02:40,926 "Look, Neal, I can tell 66 00:02:40,950 --> 00:02:42,983 that you don't think this is going to work, 67 00:02:43,007 --> 00:02:44,316 but just humor me. 68 00:02:44,340 --> 00:02:45,617 Tell me your argument." 69 00:02:45,641 --> 00:02:47,283 So I grabbed my legal pad, 70 00:02:47,307 --> 00:02:49,340 and I started reading my argument. 71 00:02:49,364 --> 00:02:50,799 He said, "What are you doing?" 72 00:02:50,823 --> 00:02:52,672 I said, "I'm telling you my argument." 73 00:02:52,696 --> 00:02:54,664 He said, "Your argument is a legal pad?" 74 00:02:54,688 --> 00:02:57,526 I said, "No, but my argument is on a legal pad." 75 00:02:57,550 --> 00:02:59,772 He said, "Neal, look at me. 76 00:02:59,796 --> 00:03:02,003 Tell me your argument." 77 00:03:02,027 --> 00:03:03,391 And so I did. 78 00:03:03,415 --> 00:03:05,307 And instantly, I realized, 79 00:03:05,331 --> 00:03:07,037 my points were resonating. 80 00:03:07,061 --> 00:03:09,867 I was connecting to another human being. 81 00:03:10,328 --> 00:03:13,360 And he could see the smile starting to form 82 00:03:13,384 --> 00:03:15,153 as I was saying my words, 83 00:03:15,177 --> 00:03:16,947 and he said, "OK, Neal. 84 00:03:16,971 --> 00:03:19,737 Now do your argument holding my hand." 85 00:03:20,246 --> 00:03:21,975 And I said, "What?" 86 00:03:21,999 --> 00:03:24,340 And he said, "Yeah, hold my hand." 87 00:03:25,087 --> 00:03:26,799 I was desperate, so I did it. 88 00:03:26,823 --> 00:03:30,442 And I realized, "Wow, that's connection. 89 00:03:30,466 --> 00:03:32,728 That's the power of how to persuade." 90 00:03:33,125 --> 00:03:34,307 And it helped. 91 00:03:34,331 --> 00:03:37,780 But truthfully, I still got nervous as the argument date approached. 92 00:03:37,804 --> 00:03:39,923 And I knew that even though argument 93 00:03:39,947 --> 00:03:42,201 was about getting into someone else's shoes 94 00:03:42,225 --> 00:03:43,458 and empathizing, 95 00:03:43,482 --> 00:03:46,243 I needed to have a solid core first. 96 00:03:46,267 --> 00:03:48,760 So I did something outside of my comfort zone. 97 00:03:48,784 --> 00:03:51,058 I wore jewelry -- not just anything, 98 00:03:51,082 --> 00:03:54,336 but a bracelet that my father had worn his whole life, 99 00:03:54,360 --> 00:03:57,598 until he passed away, just a few months before the argument. 100 00:03:57,622 --> 00:03:58,783 I put on a tie 101 00:03:58,807 --> 00:04:01,315 that my mom had given me just for the occasion. 102 00:04:01,641 --> 00:04:05,768 And I took out my legal pad and wrote my children's names on it, 103 00:04:05,792 --> 00:04:07,926 because that's why I was doing this. 104 00:04:07,950 --> 00:04:11,577 For them, to leave the country better than I had found it. 105 00:04:11,601 --> 00:04:13,887 I got to court, and I was calm. 106 00:04:13,911 --> 00:04:17,221 The bracelet, the tie, the children's names 107 00:04:17,245 --> 00:04:18,791 had all centered me. 108 00:04:18,815 --> 00:04:21,902 Like a rock climber extending beyond the precipice, 109 00:04:21,926 --> 00:04:25,101 if you have a solid hold, you can reach out. 110 00:04:25,125 --> 00:04:28,609 And because argument is about persuasion, 111 00:04:28,633 --> 00:04:30,633 I knew I had to avoid emotion. 112 00:04:30,982 --> 00:04:32,823 Displays of emotion fail. 113 00:04:32,847 --> 00:04:36,260 It's kind of like writing an email in all bold and all caps. 114 00:04:36,284 --> 00:04:37,776 It persuades no one. 115 00:04:37,800 --> 00:04:39,990 It's then about you, the speaker, 116 00:04:40,014 --> 00:04:42,410 not about the listener or the receiver. 117 00:04:42,728 --> 00:04:46,291 Now look, in some settings, the solution is to be emotional. 118 00:04:46,315 --> 00:04:47,903 You're arguing with your parents, 119 00:04:47,927 --> 00:04:49,871 and you use emotion and it works. 120 00:04:49,895 --> 00:04:51,045 Why? 121 00:04:51,069 --> 00:04:52,514 Because your parents love you. 122 00:04:52,538 --> 00:04:54,704 But Supreme Court justices don't love you. 123 00:04:54,728 --> 00:04:56,546 They don't like to think of themselves 124 00:04:56,570 --> 00:04:58,571 as the type of people persuaded by emotion. 125 00:04:58,595 --> 00:05:00,988 And I reverse engineered that insight too, 126 00:05:01,012 --> 00:05:05,020 setting a trap for my opponent to provoke his emotional reaction, 127 00:05:05,044 --> 00:05:08,567 so I could be seen as the calm and steady voice of the law. 128 00:05:09,106 --> 00:05:10,415 And it worked. 129 00:05:10,439 --> 00:05:14,569 And I remember sitting in the courtroom to learn that we had won. 130 00:05:14,593 --> 00:05:17,418 That the Guantanamo tribunals were coming down. 131 00:05:17,442 --> 00:05:21,236 And I went out onto the courthouse steps and there was a media firestorm. 132 00:05:21,585 --> 00:05:23,855 Five hundred cameras, and they're all asking me, 133 00:05:23,879 --> 00:05:26,164 "What does the decision mean, what does it say?" 134 00:05:26,188 --> 00:05:28,474 Well, the decision was 185 pages long. 135 00:05:28,498 --> 00:05:30,696 I hadn't had time to read it, nobody had. 136 00:05:30,720 --> 00:05:32,045 But I knew what it meant. 137 00:05:32,069 --> 00:05:34,533 And here's what I said on the steps of the Court. 138 00:05:34,955 --> 00:05:36,518 "Here's what happened today. 139 00:05:36,542 --> 00:05:38,447 You have the lowest of the low -- 140 00:05:38,471 --> 00:05:41,800 this guy, who was accused of being bin Laden's driver, 141 00:05:41,824 --> 00:05:43,895 one of the most horrible men around. 142 00:05:43,919 --> 00:05:45,958 And he sued not just anyone, 143 00:05:45,982 --> 00:05:48,863 but the nation, indeed, the world's most powerful man, 144 00:05:48,887 --> 00:05:50,895 the president of the United States. 145 00:05:50,919 --> 00:05:53,712 And he brings it not in some rinky-dink traffic court, 146 00:05:53,736 --> 00:05:55,783 but in the highest court of the land, 147 00:05:55,807 --> 00:05:58,236 the Supreme Court of the United States ... 148 00:05:58,260 --> 00:05:59,887 And he wins. 149 00:05:59,911 --> 00:06:02,982 That's something remarkable about this country. 150 00:06:03,006 --> 00:06:04,666 In many other countries, 151 00:06:04,690 --> 00:06:06,561 this driver would have been shot, 152 00:06:06,585 --> 00:06:08,442 just for bringing his case. 153 00:06:08,466 --> 00:06:11,395 And more of the point for me, his lawyer would have been shot. 154 00:06:11,419 --> 00:06:13,518 But that's what makes America different. 155 00:06:13,542 --> 00:06:15,542 What makes America special." 156 00:06:15,566 --> 00:06:17,304 Because of that decision, 157 00:06:17,328 --> 00:06:20,014 the Geneva conventions apply to the war on terror, 158 00:06:20,038 --> 00:06:22,728 which meant the end of ghost prisons worldwide, 159 00:06:22,752 --> 00:06:24,768 the end of waterboarding worldwide 160 00:06:24,792 --> 00:06:28,252 and an end to those Guantanamo military tribunals. 161 00:06:28,276 --> 00:06:30,498 By methodically building the case, 162 00:06:30,522 --> 00:06:32,791 and getting into the justices' heads, 163 00:06:32,815 --> 00:06:36,300 we were able to quite literally change the world. 164 00:06:36,606 --> 00:06:38,256 Sounds easy, right? 165 00:06:38,280 --> 00:06:39,901 You can practice a lot, 166 00:06:39,925 --> 00:06:41,376 avoid displays of emotion, 167 00:06:41,400 --> 00:06:43,400 and you, too, can win any argument. 168 00:06:43,776 --> 00:06:46,355 I'm sorry to say, it's not that simple, 169 00:06:46,379 --> 00:06:48,315 my strategies aren't foolproof, 170 00:06:48,339 --> 00:06:50,812 and while I've won more Supreme Court cases 171 00:06:50,836 --> 00:06:52,193 than most anyone, 172 00:06:52,217 --> 00:06:54,233 I've also lost a lot too. 173 00:06:54,257 --> 00:06:56,709 Indeed, after Donald Trump was elected, 174 00:06:56,733 --> 00:07:00,468 I was, constitutionally speaking, terrified. 175 00:07:00,492 --> 00:07:03,087 Please understand, this is not about Left versus Right, 176 00:07:03,111 --> 00:07:04,405 or anything like that. 177 00:07:04,429 --> 00:07:06,206 I'm not here to talk about that. 178 00:07:06,230 --> 00:07:08,837 But just a week in to the new president's term, 179 00:07:08,861 --> 00:07:11,528 you might remember those scenes at the airports. 180 00:07:11,552 --> 00:07:15,679 President Trump had campaigned on a pledge, saying, quote, 181 00:07:15,703 --> 00:07:19,580 "I, Donald J. Trump am calling for a complete and total shutdown 182 00:07:19,604 --> 00:07:22,596 of all Muslim immigration to the United States." 183 00:07:22,620 --> 00:07:25,793 And he also said, quote, "I think Islam hates us." 184 00:07:25,817 --> 00:07:27,642 And he made good on that promise, 185 00:07:27,666 --> 00:07:33,363 banning immigration from seven countries with overwhelmingly Muslim populations. 186 00:07:33,387 --> 00:07:36,990 My legal team and others went into court right away and sued, 187 00:07:37,014 --> 00:07:39,839 and got that first travel ban struck down. 188 00:07:39,863 --> 00:07:41,252 Trump revised it. 189 00:07:41,276 --> 00:07:43,871 We went into court again and got that struck down. 190 00:07:43,895 --> 00:07:45,925 He revised it again, 191 00:07:45,949 --> 00:07:48,276 and changed it, adding North Korea, 192 00:07:48,300 --> 00:07:49,482 because we all know, 193 00:07:49,506 --> 00:07:53,328 the United States had a tremendous immigration problem with North Korea. 194 00:07:53,352 --> 00:07:56,756 But it did enable his lawyers to go to the Supreme Court and say, 195 00:07:56,780 --> 00:07:59,034 "See, this isn't discriminating against Muslims, 196 00:07:59,058 --> 00:08:01,141 it includes these other people too." 197 00:08:01,165 --> 00:08:04,067 Now I thought we had the killer answer to that. 198 00:08:04,942 --> 00:08:06,831 I won't bore you with the details, 199 00:08:06,855 --> 00:08:08,855 but the thing is, we lost. 200 00:08:09,163 --> 00:08:10,933 Five votes to four. 201 00:08:10,957 --> 00:08:12,322 And I was devastated. 202 00:08:12,346 --> 00:08:15,733 I was worried my powers of persuasion had waned. 203 00:08:16,046 --> 00:08:17,744 And then, two things happened. 204 00:08:17,768 --> 00:08:18,990 The first was, 205 00:08:19,014 --> 00:08:22,574 I noticed a part of the Supreme Court's travel ban opinion 206 00:08:22,598 --> 00:08:25,312 that discussed the Japanese American interment. 207 00:08:25,669 --> 00:08:27,670 That was a horrific moment in our history, 208 00:08:27,694 --> 00:08:32,993 in which over 100,000 Japanese Americans had been interned in camps. 209 00:08:33,017 --> 00:08:35,414 My favorite person to challenge this scheme 210 00:08:35,438 --> 00:08:36,748 was Gordon Hirabayashi, 211 00:08:36,772 --> 00:08:38,942 a University of Washington student. 212 00:08:38,966 --> 00:08:41,125 He turned himself in to the FBI, 213 00:08:41,149 --> 00:08:43,304 who said, "Look, you're a first-time offender, 214 00:08:43,328 --> 00:08:44,506 you can go home." 215 00:08:44,530 --> 00:08:45,705 And Gordon said, 216 00:08:45,729 --> 00:08:49,831 "No, I'm a Quaker, I have to resist unjust laws," 217 00:08:49,855 --> 00:08:52,426 and so they arrested him and he was convicted. 218 00:08:52,450 --> 00:08:55,084 Gordon's case made it to the Supreme Court. 219 00:08:55,108 --> 00:08:56,887 And again, I'm going to do that thing 220 00:08:56,911 --> 00:08:59,363 where I quash any sense of anticipation you have, 221 00:08:59,387 --> 00:09:01,164 and tell you what happened. 222 00:09:01,188 --> 00:09:02,490 Gordon lost. 223 00:09:02,514 --> 00:09:04,886 But he lost because of a simple reason. 224 00:09:05,212 --> 00:09:06,784 Because the Solicitor General, 225 00:09:06,808 --> 00:09:09,434 that top courtroom lawyer for the government, 226 00:09:09,458 --> 00:09:11,213 told the Supreme Court 227 00:09:11,237 --> 00:09:15,467 that the Japanese American internment was justified by military necessity. 228 00:09:16,115 --> 00:09:17,314 And that was so, 229 00:09:17,338 --> 00:09:19,798 even though his own staff had discovered 230 00:09:19,822 --> 00:09:23,628 that there was no need for the Japanese American interment 231 00:09:23,652 --> 00:09:27,088 and that the FBI and the intelligence community 232 00:09:27,112 --> 00:09:28,533 all believed that. 233 00:09:28,557 --> 00:09:31,810 And indeed, that it was motivated by racial prejudice. 234 00:09:32,157 --> 00:09:34,704 His staff begged the Solicitor General, 235 00:09:34,728 --> 00:09:37,688 "Tell the truth, don't suppress evidence." 236 00:09:37,712 --> 00:09:39,490 What did the Solicitor General do? 237 00:09:39,514 --> 00:09:40,696 Nothing. 238 00:09:40,720 --> 00:09:44,282 He went in and told the "military necessity" story. 239 00:09:44,719 --> 00:09:48,631 And so the Court upheld Gordon Hirabayashi's conviction. 240 00:09:48,655 --> 00:09:52,933 And the next year, upheld Fred Korematsu's interment. 241 00:09:53,255 --> 00:09:55,231 Now why was I thinking about that? 242 00:09:55,255 --> 00:09:57,374 Because nearly 70 years later, 243 00:09:57,398 --> 00:09:59,434 I got to hold the same office, 244 00:09:59,458 --> 00:10:01,704 Head of the Solicitor General's Office. 245 00:10:01,728 --> 00:10:03,895 And I got to set the record straight, 246 00:10:03,919 --> 00:10:08,117 explaining that the government had misrepresented the facts 247 00:10:08,141 --> 00:10:10,623 in the Japanese interment cases. 248 00:10:10,647 --> 00:10:14,204 And when I thought about the Supreme Court's travel ban opinion, 249 00:10:14,228 --> 00:10:15,744 I realized something. 250 00:10:15,768 --> 00:10:17,475 The Supreme Court, in that opinion, 251 00:10:17,499 --> 00:10:22,185 went out of its way to overrule the Korematsu case. 252 00:10:22,209 --> 00:10:25,820 Now, not only had the Justice Department said 253 00:10:25,844 --> 00:10:28,193 the Japanese interment was wrong, 254 00:10:28,217 --> 00:10:30,920 the Supreme Court said so too. 255 00:10:31,523 --> 00:10:35,356 That's a crucial lesson about arguments -- timing. 256 00:10:35,380 --> 00:10:38,783 All of you, when you're arguing, have that important lever to play. 257 00:10:38,807 --> 00:10:40,903 When do you make your argument? 258 00:10:40,927 --> 00:10:42,815 You don't just need the right argument, 259 00:10:42,839 --> 00:10:45,776 you need the right argument at the right moment. 260 00:10:45,800 --> 00:10:50,371 When is it that your audience -- a spouse, a boss, a child -- 261 00:10:50,395 --> 00:10:52,220 is going to be most receptive? 262 00:10:52,244 --> 00:10:54,839 Now look, sometimes, it's totally out of your control. 263 00:10:54,863 --> 00:10:57,400 Delay has costs that are too extensive. 264 00:10:57,784 --> 00:10:59,829 And so you've got to go in and fight 265 00:10:59,853 --> 00:11:02,909 and you very well may, like me, get the timing wrong. 266 00:11:02,933 --> 00:11:04,934 That's what we thought in the travel ban. 267 00:11:04,958 --> 00:11:06,109 And you see, 268 00:11:06,133 --> 00:11:11,149 the Supreme Court wasn't ready, so early in President Trump's term, 269 00:11:11,173 --> 00:11:14,212 to overrule his signature initiative, 270 00:11:14,236 --> 00:11:19,526 just as it wasn't ready to overrule FDR's Japanese American interment. 271 00:11:19,550 --> 00:11:22,074 And sometimes, you just have to take the risk. 272 00:11:22,098 --> 00:11:24,982 But it is so painful when you lose. 273 00:11:25,006 --> 00:11:26,942 And patience is really hard. 274 00:11:26,966 --> 00:11:29,220 But that reminds me of the second lesson. 275 00:11:29,244 --> 00:11:31,361 Even if vindication comes later, 276 00:11:31,385 --> 00:11:34,615 I realized how important the fight now is, 277 00:11:34,639 --> 00:11:37,790 because it inspires, because it educates. 278 00:11:38,220 --> 00:11:43,315 I remember reading a column by Ann Coulter about the Muslim ban. 279 00:11:43,339 --> 00:11:44,601 Here's what she said. 280 00:11:44,625 --> 00:11:47,696 "Arguing against Trump was first-generation American, 281 00:11:47,720 --> 00:11:49,061 Neal Katyal. 282 00:11:49,085 --> 00:11:52,360 There are plenty of 10th-generation America-haters. 283 00:11:52,384 --> 00:11:56,145 You couldn't get one of them to argue we should end our country 284 00:11:56,169 --> 00:11:58,006 through mass-immigration?" 285 00:11:58,030 --> 00:11:59,673 And that's when emotion, 286 00:11:59,697 --> 00:12:02,950 which is so anathema to a good argument, 287 00:12:02,974 --> 00:12:04,426 was important to me. 288 00:12:04,450 --> 00:12:08,958 It took emotion outside the courtroom to get me back in. 289 00:12:08,982 --> 00:12:13,180 When I read Coulter's words, I was angry. 290 00:12:13,839 --> 00:12:15,451 I rebel against the idea 291 00:12:15,475 --> 00:12:19,930 that being a first-generation American would disqualify me. 292 00:12:19,954 --> 00:12:23,193 I rebel against the idea that mass immigration 293 00:12:23,217 --> 00:12:24,788 would end this country, 294 00:12:24,812 --> 00:12:29,991 instead of recognizing that as literally the rock on which this country was built. 295 00:12:30,015 --> 00:12:31,317 When I read Coulter, 296 00:12:31,341 --> 00:12:34,110 I thought about so many things in my past. 297 00:12:34,134 --> 00:12:35,499 I thought about my dad, 298 00:12:35,523 --> 00:12:38,133 who arrived here with eight dollars from India, 299 00:12:38,157 --> 00:12:41,667 and didn't know whether to use the colored bathroom or the white one. 300 00:12:42,003 --> 00:12:45,495 I thought about his first job offer, at a slaughter house. 301 00:12:45,519 --> 00:12:47,272 Not a great job for a Hindu. 302 00:12:47,296 --> 00:12:51,634 I thought about how, when we moved to a new neighborhood in Chicago 303 00:12:51,658 --> 00:12:53,625 with one other Indian family, 304 00:12:53,649 --> 00:12:56,249 that family had a cross burned on its lawn. 305 00:12:56,273 --> 00:12:58,066 Because the racists aren't very good 306 00:12:58,090 --> 00:13:00,939 at distinguishing between African Americans and Hindus. 307 00:13:00,963 --> 00:13:03,014 And I thought about all the hate mail I got 308 00:13:03,038 --> 00:13:04,316 during Guantanamo, 309 00:13:04,340 --> 00:13:05,990 for being a Muslim lover. 310 00:13:06,014 --> 00:13:07,696 Again, the racists aren't very good 311 00:13:07,720 --> 00:13:10,577 with distinctions between Hindus and Muslims, either. 312 00:13:10,601 --> 00:13:15,004 Ann Coulter thought that being the child of an immigrant was a weakness. 313 00:13:15,028 --> 00:13:18,877 She was profoundly, profoundly wrong. 314 00:13:18,901 --> 00:13:20,514 It is my strength, 315 00:13:20,538 --> 00:13:24,220 because I knew what America was supposed to stand for. 316 00:13:24,752 --> 00:13:27,291 I knew that in America, 317 00:13:27,315 --> 00:13:31,853 me, a child of a man who came here with eight dollars in his pocket, 318 00:13:31,877 --> 00:13:34,750 could stand in the Supreme Court of the United States 319 00:13:34,774 --> 00:13:37,107 on behalf of a detested foreigner, 320 00:13:37,131 --> 00:13:39,358 like Osama bin Laden's driver, 321 00:13:39,382 --> 00:13:40,573 and win. 322 00:13:40,597 --> 00:13:41,953 And it made me realize, 323 00:13:41,977 --> 00:13:44,596 even though I may have lost the case, 324 00:13:44,620 --> 00:13:46,720 I was right about the Muslim ban too. 325 00:13:46,744 --> 00:13:48,577 No matter what the court decided, 326 00:13:48,601 --> 00:13:50,116 they couldn't change the fact 327 00:13:50,140 --> 00:13:52,653 that immigrants do strengthen this country. 328 00:13:52,677 --> 00:13:56,955 Indeed, in many ways, immigrants love this country the most. 329 00:13:56,979 --> 00:13:59,315 When I read Ann Coulter's words, 330 00:13:59,339 --> 00:14:02,371 I thought about the glorious words of our Constitution. 331 00:14:02,395 --> 00:14:03,704 The First Amendment. 332 00:14:03,728 --> 00:14:07,529 Congress shall make no law establishing religion. 333 00:14:07,553 --> 00:14:09,831 I thought about our national creed, 334 00:14:09,855 --> 00:14:11,570 "E plurbis unum," 335 00:14:11,594 --> 00:14:13,667 "out of many come one." 336 00:14:14,006 --> 00:14:15,720 Most of all, I realized, 337 00:14:15,744 --> 00:14:19,125 the only way you can truly lose an argument 338 00:14:19,149 --> 00:14:20,545 is by giving up. 339 00:14:20,569 --> 00:14:23,641 So I joined the lawsuit by the US Congress 340 00:14:23,665 --> 00:14:28,923 challenging President Trump's addition of a citizenship question to the census. 341 00:14:28,947 --> 00:14:31,352 A decision with huge implications. 342 00:14:31,376 --> 00:14:32,939 It was a really hard case. 343 00:14:32,963 --> 00:14:34,939 Most thought we would lose. 344 00:14:34,963 --> 00:14:36,852 But the thing is, we won. 345 00:14:36,876 --> 00:14:38,447 Five votes to four. 346 00:14:38,471 --> 00:14:40,288 The Supreme Court basically said 347 00:14:40,312 --> 00:14:44,300 President Trump and his cabinet's secretary had lied. 348 00:14:44,744 --> 00:14:47,569 And now I've gotten back up and rejoined the fight, 349 00:14:47,593 --> 00:14:50,680 and I hope each of you, in your own ways, does so too. 350 00:14:50,998 --> 00:14:52,164 I'm getting back up 351 00:14:52,188 --> 00:14:55,667 because I'm a believer that good arguments do win out in the end. 352 00:14:56,598 --> 00:14:58,637 The arc of justice is long, 353 00:14:58,661 --> 00:15:00,463 and bends, often, slowly, 354 00:15:00,487 --> 00:15:03,209 but it bends so long as we bend it. 355 00:15:03,598 --> 00:15:07,636 And I've realized the question is not how to win every argument. 356 00:15:08,033 --> 00:15:11,152 It's how to get back up when you do lose. 357 00:15:11,176 --> 00:15:12,533 Because in the long run, 358 00:15:12,557 --> 00:15:15,014 good arguments will win out. 359 00:15:15,038 --> 00:15:16,760 If you make a good argument, 360 00:15:16,784 --> 00:15:19,101 it has the power to outlive you, 361 00:15:19,125 --> 00:15:21,156 to stretch beyond your core, 362 00:15:21,180 --> 00:15:23,500 to reach those future minds. 363 00:15:23,828 --> 00:15:26,256 And that's why all of this is so important. 364 00:15:26,280 --> 00:15:30,256 I'm not telling you how to win arguments for the sake of winning arguments. 365 00:15:30,280 --> 00:15:31,906 This isn't a game. 366 00:15:31,930 --> 00:15:36,128 I'm telling you this because even if you don't win right now, 367 00:15:36,152 --> 00:15:39,854 if you make a good argument, history will prove you right. 368 00:15:39,878 --> 00:15:42,934 I think back to that acting coach all the time. 369 00:15:42,958 --> 00:15:44,434 And I've come to realize 370 00:15:44,458 --> 00:15:48,448 that the hand I was holding was the hand of justice. 371 00:15:48,472 --> 00:15:51,377 That outstretched hand will come for you. 372 00:15:51,401 --> 00:15:54,563 It's your decision to push it away 373 00:15:54,587 --> 00:15:55,762 or to keep holding it. 374 00:15:56,413 --> 00:15:58,539 Thank you so much for listening.