1 00:00:01,600 --> 00:00:04,087 Mission: Investigation 2 00:00:04,087 --> 00:00:09,000 There are today around 400,000 Muslims in Sweden. 3 00:00:09,000 --> 00:00:15,067 And the struggle for society is to integrate and build bridges to Islam. 4 00:00:15,067 --> 00:00:24,752 The most important mosque in Sweden, in Medborgarplatsen, Stockholm, has been visited by many well-known politicians. 5 00:00:24,752 --> 00:00:32,926 But how do the leaders, the imams in the mosques, relate to basic values in Sweden's democracy, 6 00:00:32,926 --> 00:00:38,733 such as the value of every human being, equality, and parity between men and women. 7 00:00:38,733 --> 00:00:41,267 This is the official picture that is given. 8 00:00:41,267 --> 00:00:57,333 Of course in this mosque, everyone has to know that, as I have repeated several times, this (mosque) follows Swedish laws and that no one is allowed to say anything against those laws. 9 00:00:57,333 --> 00:01:03,600 Are they honest, when it comes to for example, the viewpoint on women's position as opposed to men? 10 00:01:03,600 --> 00:01:10,067 Our reporter Nadja Yllner has sought the help of two Muslim women in niqab 11 00:01:10,067 --> 00:01:15,600 to see and hear what imams in 10 Swedish mosques say they should do 12 00:01:15,600 --> 00:01:20,871 when told among other things that the man has several wives, and has mistreated his wife. 13 00:01:25,933 --> 00:01:30,800 Two women are going to help us to find out if there are Muslim leaders 14 00:01:30,800 --> 00:01:40,733 who are spreading values in their congregations which they perhaps would not admit to publicly. 15 00:01:40,733 --> 00:01:47,950 One of them is equipped with a hidden camera, the other with a microphone. 16 00:01:47,950 --> 00:01:53,733 The idea is that they should ask for advice and hear what the imams say when they think 17 00:01:53,733 --> 00:01:58,533 that it's just two believing Muslim women who are listening. 18 00:01:58,533 --> 00:02:03,800 The women are going to contact 10 of Sweden's largest mosques. 19 00:02:03,800 --> 00:02:07,733 We have chosen mosques spread out over the whole country, 20 00:02:07,733 --> 00:02:19,133 which have many attendees, and so are influential in Sweden, which has been called the world's most equal society. 21 00:02:19,133 --> 00:02:23,754 Imams' Advice 22 00:02:33,948 --> 00:02:39,733 It was here in Rinkeby and Tensta that we thought of this investigation. 23 00:02:39,733 --> 00:02:49,204 Here, three Muslim congregations plan to build a mosque each, with space for up to a 1000 people in each. 24 00:02:49,204 --> 00:02:52,267 And when women want to pray? Can they join in, in the large space? 25 00:02:52,267 --> 00:03:02,800 No, the women's section is here, and it's the same as the other. 26 00:03:02,800 --> 00:03:05,017 Ibrahim Bourale is the chairman of the Islamic Association in Järva, and responsible for one 27 00:03:05,017 --> 00:03:06,733 of the planned mosques. 28 00:03:06,733 --> 00:03:08,200 And it continues here? 29 00:03:08,200 --> 00:03:10,067 Yes, we will see if... 30 00:03:10,067 --> 00:03:13,445 We live here in Sweden, we are Swedish Muslims 31 00:03:13,445 --> 00:03:26,333 and we feel that we deserve to have a space to have good services and activities. 32 00:03:26,333 --> 00:03:31,400 And one floor up we have the women's section, and here... 33 00:03:31,400 --> 00:03:38,871 The politicians trust the Islamic Association in Järva, which has received the best plot of land. 34 00:03:38,871 --> 00:03:39,933 Bo Sundin, chairman of Rinkeby-Kista district 35 00:03:39,933 --> 00:03:43,028 We have a long history of co-operation with them in many areas 36 00:03:43,028 --> 00:03:53,708 because we have found out that they are a serious and very active actor working to become a part of Swedish society here. 37 00:04:17,943 --> 00:04:23,926 Today the congregation hold Friday prayers in the Rinkeby people's hall. 38 00:04:23,926 --> 00:04:30,029 Arabic: Oh Lord, let us die in your faith, and summon us among your people... 39 00:04:38,926 --> 00:04:45,126 The female visitors do not want us to film them. 40 00:04:45,126 --> 00:04:50,949 They go in the back way and then up to the gallery. 41 00:04:51,811 --> 00:04:58,060 There they sit in crowded rows, but they can never see the imam they are listening to, 42 00:04:58,060 --> 00:05:01,993 since the curtain hangs down in front of them. 43 00:05:01,993 --> 00:05:09,978 ...is a big problem, it can lead to that one lives in phobia and fear 44 00:05:34,460 --> 00:05:38,926 What struck me when I came here was how many men there were everywhere. 45 00:05:38,926 --> 00:05:54,074 It was possible to go to a restaurant and not see a single woman. 46 00:05:54,074 --> 00:06:01,926 In one restaurant I was invited to sit behind drapery in a room specially for women. 47 00:06:01,926 --> 00:06:07,260 In another restaurant, a man gestured with his hand to the table further back where he thought we women 48 00:06:07,260 --> 00:06:10,073 should sit. 49 00:06:10,073 --> 00:06:16,528 I spoke with a woman who was spat at because her shawl wasn't long enough. 50 00:06:16,528 --> 00:06:22,660 I heard about others who had begun to use headscarves so they could continue to live in the area. 51 00:06:22,660 --> 00:06:29,460 Here it is easy to find men who think that God gives them the right to marry several women. 52 00:06:29,460 --> 00:06:39,726 One has to be just with all, good standard of living, good life for all, this is our religion which says this. 53 00:06:39,726 --> 00:06:42,660 I have four. 54 00:06:42,660 --> 00:06:43,811 You have four wives? 55 00:06:43,811 --> 00:06:44,660 Yes. 56 00:06:44,660 --> 00:06:45,994 No! Is that true? 57 00:06:45,994 --> 00:06:47,155 It's true. 58 00:06:47,155 --> 00:06:47,993 How does it go? 59 00:06:47,993 --> 00:06:49,663 It's good. 60 00:06:49,663 --> 00:06:52,393 But how does it work? You can only marry one person here in Sweden. 61 00:06:52,393 --> 00:06:56,478 No, four is normal for Muslims. 62 00:06:56,478 --> 00:06:57,732 I have papers with me. 63 00:06:57,732 --> 00:06:59,417 Can I see? 64 00:07:03,201 --> 00:07:12,000 In Swedish law, it's only one, four is not possible. 65 00:07:12,000 --> 00:07:17,933 In the papers from the Population Registry are the names of the four women who had borne his children. 66 00:07:17,933 --> 00:07:21,067 Only one is registered as his wife. 67 00:07:21,067 --> 00:07:25,986 The others he had married while abroad. 68 00:07:25,986 --> 00:07:27,533 But why do you do this? 69 00:07:27,533 --> 00:07:29,306 It's normal. 70 00:07:29,306 --> 00:07:31,303 You don't think its a problem? 71 00:07:31,303 --> 00:07:35,000 It is, it's a big problem. 72 00:07:35,000 --> 00:07:36,200 You don't think this is right? 73 00:07:36,200 --> 00:07:41,404 No, I don't like this. It's never right if you have four wives. 74 00:07:41,404 --> 00:07:44,817 They will be jealous of each other and then there are problems with the children. 75 00:07:44,817 --> 00:07:49,868 Islam does not say this. Islam does not say this. It isn't like this. 76 00:08:00,867 --> 00:08:13,800 Many say they know just what Islam is, but just as in Christianity there is in Islam both new interpreters and literalists 77 00:08:13,800 --> 00:08:21,800 There are imams who are reminiscent of the ex-Archbishop Hammar who spoke out for the rights of homosexuals, 78 00:08:21,800 --> 00:08:31,000 and imams more like Pentecostal Pastor Åke Green who states that homosexuality is a cancer in the body of society. 79 00:08:31,000 --> 00:08:41,600 If you compare ex-Archbishop Hammar and Pastor Ulf Ekman and Pentecostal Pastor Åke Green, 80 00:08:41,600 --> 00:08:48,667 none of them believe the same thing, though they are part of the same religion and the same interpretative tradition. 81 00:08:48,667 --> 00:08:56,288 One takes it for granted. That's how it is. But not with Muslims, they are all lumped in to one group and people say "that's how they are." 82 00:08:56,288 --> 00:09:01,400 Professor Mohammad Fazlhashemi has written books on 83 00:09:01,400 --> 00:09:04,733 how Islam has changed through history. 84 00:09:04,733 --> 00:09:08,800 He is himself a believing Muslim and prays daily. 85 00:09:08,800 --> 00:09:16,800 But he believes that Islam, precisely like Christianity, must adjust itself to the time we live in 86 00:09:16,800 --> 00:09:22,800 and he doesn't like seeing the literalists message spreading. 87 00:09:22,800 --> 00:09:29,667 At the same time he is afraid that his criticism could be abused by anti-immigrant hostile forces. 88 00:09:29,667 --> 00:09:34,949 It's a delicate balance between extremes, because this is about extremes. 89 00:09:34,949 --> 00:09:43,400 We have the anti-immigrant islamophobes on one side 90 00:09:43,400 --> 00:09:49,087 and on the other the literalist traditionalists. 91 00:09:54,000 --> 00:09:59,667 Akhdar, as she calls herself, is herself a believing Muslim. 92 00:09:59,667 --> 00:10:06,018 She grew up in a Muslim country and knows the religious codes. 93 00:10:06,018 --> 00:10:15,867 The other woman calls herself Mahnaz, she comes from the same country but she has left Islam. 94 00:10:15,867 --> 00:10:23,688 Together they will contact 10 mosques and try to get a response to these 4 questions: 95 00:10:23,688 --> 00:10:29,200 1. Can a man marry more than one woman? 96 00:10:29,200 --> 00:10:37,434 2. Does a woman have the right to by herself decide over her own body and refuse to have sex with her husband? 97 00:10:37,434 --> 00:10:45,867 3. Can a man hit his wife? 4. And if he does can she ring the police? 98 00:10:45,867 --> 00:10:51,133 The questions will show whether some of Sweden's largest mosques try to take away from women 99 00:10:51,133 --> 00:10:57,775 rights they have according to Swedish laws. 100 00:10:57,775 --> 00:11:04,091 They will begin by contacting two congregations in Rinkeby which have both 101 00:11:04,091 --> 00:11:12,800 been given plots from Stockholm with the possibility to build a mosque each. 102 00:11:12,800 --> 00:11:17,094 If it is so that there are imams in these congregations who say that you as a woman must accept 103 00:11:17,094 --> 00:11:20,867 that your husband can marry more than one, what would that mean? 104 00:11:20,867 --> 00:11:25,267 It isn't acceptable. We live in Sweden and that isn't acceptable. 105 00:11:25,267 --> 00:11:27,357 Would you want to co-operate with them then? 106 00:11:27,357 --> 00:11:31,667 No, but we co-operate with them because they don't have that viewpoint. 107 00:11:31,667 --> 00:11:37,933 If the imams say you have to have sex with your husband except if you have your period or you are ill... 108 00:11:37,933 --> 00:11:43,100 This is completely alien to me. It sounds very strange. 109 00:11:43,100 --> 00:11:45,533 If it comes up in these organizations... 110 00:11:45,533 --> 00:11:50,733 In that case it would be single individuals who have these viewpoints and it must be brought into the light 111 00:11:50,733 --> 00:11:55,567 to make sure that it is minimized. 112 00:11:57,125 --> 00:12:09,867 Akhdar begins by ringing the spokesperson for the Islamic Cultural Centre in Rinkeby Square. 113 00:12:09,867 --> 00:12:21,135 Akhdar says that her husband was in Iran and married another woman, that she feels terrible and needs to talk with an imam. 114 00:12:21,135 --> 00:12:25,067 I will give you a number you can call and you can come in as well. 115 00:12:25,067 --> 00:12:33,133 Many women are in the same situation, I promise you. 116 00:12:33,133 --> 00:12:38,712 They are my sisters. 117 00:12:38,712 --> 00:12:50,185 They say they are happy. I even know of a woman whose husband married again and they help each other! 118 00:12:54,548 --> 00:13:07,979 It will be a while before she can meet the imam at Rinkeby Square, an imam whose response is different from the others. 119 00:13:10,800 --> 00:13:17,675 The Women's Network in Stockholm helps women and youngsters 120 00:13:17,675 --> 00:13:21,576 who are exposed to honor violence and oppression. 121 00:13:21,576 --> 00:13:27,667 Here no one knows about the two women unknown to them with the hidden camera. 122 00:13:27,667 --> 00:13:31,491 But when we ask these women how they would react if they 123 00:13:31,491 --> 00:13:37,667 heard an imam say it is acceptable to have several wives or that a woman is obliged to have sex against 124 00:13:37,667 --> 00:13:43,008 her will, it seems no one would be surprised. 125 00:13:43,008 --> 00:13:45,609 I would not at all be surprised. 126 00:13:45,609 --> 00:13:46,933 Azam Qaraee, Women's Network 127 00:13:46,933 --> 00:13:53,000 Because again, according to the religion, the woman is made for the man. 128 00:13:53,000 --> 00:13:59,912 And if she says anything against this, then it's "poor man." 129 00:13:59,912 --> 00:14:02,933 One of the girls who has been given shelter by the network 130 00:14:02,933 --> 00:14:08,933 was mistreated by the family and forcibly removed when she was 16. 131 00:14:08,933 --> 00:14:16,747 Now she is 21 and has a job but the pressure from home has not let up. 132 00:14:16,747 --> 00:14:24,667 Her father is deeply religious and often asks the imam what is right and what is wrong. 133 00:14:24,667 --> 00:14:32,800 In front of me the imam says to my father, "it is not okay that your daughter comes home late. She can't go out and be with boys." 134 00:14:32,800 --> 00:14:35,067 "She can't have a boyfriend, it is not allowed." 135 00:14:35,067 --> 00:14:37,400 But the imam says this to your father, when you are listening? 136 00:14:37,400 --> 00:14:39,084 And in front of me, yes. 137 00:14:39,084 --> 00:14:40,000 What do you think of that? 138 00:14:40,000 --> 00:14:43,067 I think it is unprofessional and low. 139 00:14:43,067 --> 00:14:48,600 For me it means that he doesn't know what life in the real world means. 140 00:14:48,600 --> 00:14:52,133 But the imam stated that your father should guide you, who is 21 years old? 141 00:14:52,133 --> 00:14:59,333 Yes, and my mother as well, who is 53 years. 142 00:14:59,333 --> 00:15:07,088 The imams have an extreme influence, if they recognize that a woman's sexuality belongs to the woman herself 143 00:15:07,088 --> 00:15:16,067 and no brother or father can decide, and we have never seen anyone who says this, and we miss it.. 144 00:15:16,067 --> 00:15:22,600 the day we find an imam or religious leader who says this then I think we would soon be 145 00:15:22,600 --> 00:15:26,267 finished with these problems. 146 00:15:26,267 --> 00:15:33,267 Even ethnic Swedes sometimes come to the Women's Network, but then they 147 00:15:33,267 --> 00:15:39,867 belong to Christian sects such as Jehova's Witness. 148 00:15:39,867 --> 00:15:51,533 There are Christian sects here in Sweden where we have youngsters with the exact same virginity standards, controls, 149 00:15:51,533 --> 00:16:02,169 that individuals cannot think or choose themselves, it is the exact same thing. 150 00:16:08,867 --> 00:16:16,585 It is important that the women are not recognized, this is why they are going in niqab. 151 00:16:16,585 --> 00:16:25,000 They will play two different roles. Akhdar is the weak and abused but deeply religious woman, 152 00:16:25,000 --> 00:16:36,118 Mahnaz is her stronger relative, who thinks there should be limits for what a woman should endure. 153 00:16:46,800 --> 00:16:56,133 With one exception all the congregations we contacted have directly or indirectly taken money from society. 154 00:16:56,133 --> 00:17:04,333 Half had municipal grants, 5 of 10 had religious community grants from the state. 155 00:17:04,333 --> 00:17:09,400 This is a grant that has its own law, which says that: 156 00:17:09,400 --> 00:17:20,333 "Support should only be granted to religious communities which contribute to uphold and strengthen society's basic values." 157 00:17:20,333 --> 00:17:26,467 This means that among other things the community should "develop understanding of equality between 158 00:17:26,467 --> 00:17:30,133 men and women." 159 00:17:30,133 --> 00:17:38,800 There is only one religious community that has not accepted state grants and that is Jehovah's Witness. 160 00:17:38,800 --> 00:17:45,285 They receive no money as they call their members not to vote. 161 00:17:45,285 --> 00:17:55,618 If a community openly states that men can marry several wives, this could lead to state grants being taken away. 162 00:18:07,741 --> 00:18:16,818 It was in Rinkeby we had the idea to do our investigation and it is here we thought the women's' journey would begin. 163 00:18:16,818 --> 00:18:23,134 But when they arrive in Rinkeby and the Islamic Association in Järva, they don't get to meet any imam. 164 00:18:23,134 --> 00:18:29,800 I can't give you a name, but if you go for example to Medborgarplatsen's big mosque... 165 00:18:29,800 --> 00:18:35,667 They are told to go to Stockholm's mosque at Medborgarplatsen instead. 166 00:18:35,667 --> 00:18:41,948 Stockholm's mosque is Sweden's Muslims' most visible face to the outside world. 167 00:18:42,200 --> 00:18:51,933 It is here government representatives go when they want to meet representatives of Sweden's Muslims. 168 00:18:51,933 --> 00:19:01,846 Last February, the civil minister Stefan Attefall attended Friday prayers. 169 00:19:06,333 --> 00:19:12,548 The women go into Stockholm mosque's family counseling. 170 00:19:16,679 --> 00:19:22,467 The imam who is there sits there every day between 2 and 4 o'clock. 171 00:19:22,467 --> 00:19:25,667 Now we will hear what he has to say. 172 00:19:25,667 --> 00:19:35,783 Each Muslim is allowed to have up to four wives, but there is a requirement. 173 00:19:35,783 --> 00:19:48,543 The requirement is to be able to support them and give them love. 174 00:19:48,543 --> 00:19:55,462 I mean that he should not treat one wife better than the others. 175 00:19:55,462 --> 00:20:06,250 He should love them equally, and treat them with what is it called...equality. 176 00:20:06,250 --> 00:20:10,462 Live equally with them. Do you understand? 177 00:20:10,462 --> 00:20:11,316 Yes. 178 00:20:11,316 --> 00:20:26,583 Can you listen now...so, if he does this, it is okay. I mean if he wants to. 179 00:20:26,583 --> 00:20:32,568 But it is very difficult. He gets very angry with me. 180 00:20:32,568 --> 00:20:39,183 If I say anything he gets angry and hits me. 181 00:20:39,183 --> 00:20:48,891 And the neighbor saw that I had...what is it called...sakhm (bruises). 182 00:20:48,891 --> 00:20:55,323 She had big yellow bruises over her body. 183 00:20:55,323 --> 00:20:58,583 He is not allowed to hit her. He is not allowed to hit her at all. 184 00:20:58,583 --> 00:21:10,392 But he says that the Quran says that if the woman does not listen to her husband, the man can hit his wife. 185 00:21:10,392 --> 00:21:16,800 He can only do a little like this, with his hand like this, where it doesn't hurt. 186 00:21:16,800 --> 00:21:18,896 Just like this. Watch now. 187 00:21:18,896 --> 00:21:20,412 He can only say "I am angry with you." 188 00:21:20,412 --> 00:21:27,082 Not hit, not hit and hit. 189 00:21:28,867 --> 00:21:34,859 Now the imam knows that Akhdar's husband has done two things which are illegal in Sweden. 190 00:21:34,859 --> 00:21:40,992 He has mistreated his wife and married two women. 191 00:21:40,992 --> 00:21:46,811 But still the imam says Akhdar should not refuse to have sex with him. 192 00:21:46,811 --> 00:21:49,226 No, she is not allowed to do that. 193 00:21:49,226 --> 00:21:54,218 But love must come from the heart, this doesn't work. 194 00:21:54,218 --> 00:21:56,059 It does. Why doesn't it work? 195 00:21:56,059 --> 00:22:11,592 Because I can't think that my husband can marry a younger woman and that he has done this. 196 00:22:11,592 --> 00:22:17,325 But why does he want to love her then, why didn't he leave her? 197 00:22:17,325 --> 00:22:20,525 Why does he want to have her? It means he loves her as well. 198 00:22:20,525 --> 00:22:23,859 This can't be. 199 00:22:23,859 --> 00:22:27,859 A man can love four at the same time. 200 00:22:27,859 --> 00:22:41,564 But she told me that the last time she was badly mistreated and she almost rang the police. 201 00:22:41,564 --> 00:22:44,592 What do you think? What should I do? 202 00:22:44,592 --> 00:22:52,192 If you ring the police it can get a little difficult. Do you know why? 203 00:22:52,192 --> 00:23:05,925 The police will take him into custody and he will be given 2 or 3 years in prison. 204 00:23:05,925 --> 00:23:15,059 If she rings the police while he is in prison and says, "OK, I've forgiven him, release him from prison." 205 00:23:15,059 --> 00:23:26,819 The police would say no, he has to remain the whole year. Do you understand me? 206 00:23:26,819 --> 00:23:38,192 The imam at Sweden's most important mosque tells a mistreated woman not to ring the police. 207 00:23:38,192 --> 00:23:41,992 Instead he suggests she should give the man more love. 208 00:23:41,992 --> 00:23:54,325 You can welcome him in a good way and so on and don't refuse him love. 209 00:23:54,325 --> 00:24:00,659 He might change. He will perhaps change. 210 00:24:00,659 --> 00:24:05,392 Thank you. 211 00:24:05,392 --> 00:24:14,925 If the imam in your mosque had said to a woman when she comes to say that her husband had married again 212 00:24:14,925 --> 00:24:19,552 and the imam then says you have to respect that as long as he treats you equally... 213 00:24:19,552 --> 00:24:25,392 how would you react? 214 00:24:25,392 --> 00:24:31,925 With anger and dismay. Because this is against the law. 215 00:24:31,925 --> 00:24:36,325 Thank you, God willing. Thanks. Peace be with you. 216 00:24:36,325 --> 00:24:41,459 But if there are imams at the biggest mosque in Sweden who say its better not to go to the police 217 00:24:41,459 --> 00:24:43,659 what happens then? 218 00:24:43,659 --> 00:24:58,674 I think that this person should be punished for misconduct. This clearly goes against the law. 219 00:25:05,059 --> 00:25:10,682 The women's journey continues to Örebro's mosque. 220 00:25:10,682 --> 00:25:14,859 Over 10,000 people come here every Friday. 221 00:25:22,905 --> 00:25:27,374 It is not good to ring the police. The police don't do anything. 222 00:25:27,374 --> 00:25:38,859 The police come and say to the man, get out, and you go to court and divorce. 223 00:25:38,859 --> 00:25:44,259 So the family will split up. Muslims don't want to split families. 224 00:25:44,259 --> 00:25:47,205 We want to hold together as a family. 225 00:25:47,205 --> 00:25:49,018 Yes. 226 00:25:49,018 --> 00:25:53,125 She is a religious woman. 227 00:25:53,125 --> 00:26:00,125 So she must know that God allows men to marry with two, three, four. 228 00:26:02,248 --> 00:26:13,028 He wanted to love her and she is very sad. She refuses to love him. What does the Quran say? 229 00:26:13,028 --> 00:26:17,325 That is wrong. She must accept. 230 00:26:17,325 --> 00:26:18,059 She? 231 00:26:18,059 --> 00:26:22,362 She must have patience then. 232 00:26:22,362 --> 00:26:26,392 Yes. She must accept. 233 00:26:26,392 --> 00:26:31,202 If her husband wants love and she says no, that is wrong. 234 00:26:35,459 --> 00:26:46,557 When they come to the third mosque, the Islamic centre in Malmö, they meet an imam who is just leaving. 235 00:26:46,557 --> 00:26:48,725 Excuse me. 236 00:26:48,725 --> 00:26:51,725 Akhdar doesn't have time to ask all her questions. 237 00:26:51,725 --> 00:26:55,544 But she says that her husband married another woman and 238 00:26:55,544 --> 00:26:59,659 that she doesn't know what to do because he hits her. 239 00:26:59,659 --> 00:27:01,605 Roland Vishkurti, Islamic Center in Malmö 240 00:27:01,605 --> 00:27:04,297 Not the police. You are a Muslim and will have big problems. 241 00:27:04,297 --> 00:27:07,592 They might take the children away from you as well. 242 00:27:07,592 --> 00:27:12,059 One time he hit me and the neighbor heard. 243 00:27:12,059 --> 00:27:16,883 The Swedish just say, "Ring the police, ring the police." 244 00:27:16,883 --> 00:27:21,643 Yes, in Swedish culture you should ring the police. 245 00:27:21,643 --> 00:27:25,059 But ask other imams. 246 00:27:25,059 --> 00:27:25,559 Woman: One has to be patient. 247 00:27:25,559 --> 00:27:29,921 Patience and prayer. 248 00:27:29,921 --> 00:27:34,799 The imam commented on the recording saying that he had been misunderstood. 249 00:27:34,799 --> 00:27:43,181 That he would never defend someone who had mistreated another 250 00:27:43,181 --> 00:27:44,597 and that he is not a person who doesn't stand up for the weak. 251 00:27:44,597 --> 00:27:47,818 God help you. Peace be with you. 252 00:27:50,751 --> 00:27:54,249 When Akhdar rang to the mosque family counselor, it was different. 253 00:27:54,249 --> 00:28:01,797 He thought she should herself decide if it felt right that she should ring the police. 254 00:28:10,673 --> 00:28:15,850 The fourth mosque they visited is called Salsabil and is in a normal private property in Malmö. 255 00:28:15,850 --> 00:28:24,071 They are referred to an Egyptian sheikh who thinks Akhdar should have patience with her husband 256 00:28:24,071 --> 00:28:29,515 even though he had hit her and married another. 257 00:28:29,515 --> 00:28:33,150 During the meeting, there is a mosque member who translates 258 00:28:33,150 --> 00:28:36,649 and reports what the sheikh has said. 259 00:28:36,649 --> 00:28:38,982 As long as your husband doesn't do anything haram, 260 00:28:38,982 --> 00:28:42,915 you should never never think of going to the police. 261 00:28:42,915 --> 00:28:46,827 It would be a big sin. 262 00:28:46,827 --> 00:28:50,782 I don't want to do it. It's wrong. 263 00:28:50,782 --> 00:28:54,382 Instead of telling her to go to the police 264 00:28:54,382 --> 00:28:56,515 he says this: 265 00:28:56,515 --> 00:29:03,249 How many times has he hit you? 20 times? 30 times? 266 00:29:03,249 --> 00:29:08,315 One time per year? You see this is not beating. 267 00:29:08,315 --> 00:29:11,182 Sometimes people get angry. Has he pushed you? 268 00:29:11,182 --> 00:29:13,582 Do you have any more questions, sister? The sheikh has to go. 269 00:29:13,582 --> 00:29:16,849 God keep you. 270 00:29:16,849 --> 00:29:23,398 Afterwards he says that the advice not to go to the police had to do with her husband marrying another. 271 00:29:23,398 --> 00:29:27,382 He also says that he doesn't want to belittle violence. 272 00:29:27,382 --> 00:29:35,049 But that a light joking slap on the backside is not beating. 273 00:29:35,049 --> 00:29:40,849 When we say that we would make him anonymous, since he was only a member in the community, he protests 274 00:29:40,849 --> 00:29:45,182 and asks to be identified by name. 275 00:29:45,182 --> 00:29:48,982 The mosque distances itself from his statement. 276 00:29:48,982 --> 00:29:53,654 This stems from a patriarchal tradition. It is not allowed. 277 00:29:53,654 --> 00:29:58,582 It should not be allowed, for a woman to endure this kind of humiliation. 278 00:30:06,515 --> 00:30:16,688 Saudia Arabia is a country where gender separation is the system and laws from the middle ages guide women's lives. 279 00:30:16,688 --> 00:30:23,538 Wahabism, as the state religion is called, allows no new interpretations of the Quran. 280 00:30:23,538 --> 00:30:28,275 Those who leave Islam can be punished by death. 281 00:30:28,275 --> 00:30:32,382 Saudi Arabia and Saudi businessmen and princes 282 00:30:32,382 --> 00:30:39,715 spread in different ways these ultra-orthodox interpretative traditions through the world. 283 00:30:39,715 --> 00:30:42,950 Among other things through handing out stipends 284 00:30:42,950 --> 00:30:47,382 and educate imams who then work in other countries. 285 00:30:53,305 --> 00:31:00,365 When the women come to the fifth mosque, Uppsala 286 00:31:00,365 --> 00:31:09,382 they are greeted by a man who was educated in the Islamic university in Medina in Saudi Arabia. 287 00:31:09,382 --> 00:31:18,383 He tells Akhdar, who he knows has been mistreated by her husband, to go one step further in humiliation. 288 00:31:18,383 --> 00:31:24,715 Her neighbor told her, "if he hits you again, 289 00:31:24,715 --> 00:31:27,462 you have to ring the police!" 290 00:31:27,462 --> 00:31:34,982 That's why he is angry. He thinks she says bad things. 291 00:31:34,982 --> 00:31:37,215 But I think you can go to your husband and say 292 00:31:37,215 --> 00:31:40,982 "I'm sorry if I have made a mistake, let's start over." 293 00:31:40,982 --> 00:31:43,449 I should apologize. 294 00:31:43,449 --> 00:31:45,649 "We will forget what has is past!" 295 00:31:45,649 --> 00:31:54,537 There is a very nice hadith, "the real woman, when her husband is angry, holds his hands and 296 00:31:54,537 --> 00:31:59,715 says, I cannot sleep till you are pleased with me." 297 00:31:59,715 --> 00:32:02,115 Do you think God will forgive? 298 00:32:02,115 --> 00:32:06,382 Yes, God willing. You have to struggle. 299 00:32:06,382 --> 00:32:09,189 God willing, your husband will accept. 300 00:32:09,189 --> 00:32:12,249 I will apologize and hope that God helps me. 301 00:32:12,249 --> 00:32:17,382 That I should cleanse my heart and not be jealous. 302 00:32:17,382 --> 00:32:19,940 I won't ring the police. 303 00:32:19,940 --> 00:32:23,449 No, don't ring the police. 304 00:32:23,449 --> 00:32:25,860 God helps us. 305 00:32:36,263 --> 00:32:40,982 It was also Saudi Arabia which gave Gothenburg's Muslims 306 00:32:40,982 --> 00:32:50,982 their own real mosque. Those who took the 6 million said that the money was not tied to any conditions. 307 00:32:50,982 --> 00:33:00,849 Now the mosque has an imam who is educated in Great Britain and in Saudi Arabia. 308 00:33:00,849 --> 00:33:05,056 There is no difference between sexes. 309 00:33:05,056 --> 00:33:10,782 Of course, in front of God they have the same rights and same responsibilities. 310 00:33:10,782 --> 00:33:13,915 Is it misunderstandings then? 311 00:33:13,915 --> 00:33:16,382 If some think that a man can marry several? 312 00:33:16,382 --> 00:33:17,688 Yes. 313 00:33:17,688 --> 00:33:30,649 All this with woman's oppression. I think a lot of this is myth and it is the spreading of propaganda against Islam. 314 00:33:30,649 --> 00:33:37,582 He agrees that the woman herself has the right to decide over her body but says that both the man and the woman 315 00:33:37,582 --> 00:33:41,249 have to listen to each other. 316 00:33:41,249 --> 00:33:45,226 It says, they should listen to their husband. How long? 317 00:33:45,226 --> 00:33:52,249 There are limits. He can't request something from her God has forbidden. 318 00:33:52,249 --> 00:33:58,555 Or something which is harmful for her. Or violates her personhood. 319 00:33:58,555 --> 00:34:01,744 He absolutely can't do that. 320 00:34:06,182 --> 00:34:09,782 Now the women will find out what the imam says when he does not know 321 00:34:09,782 --> 00:34:12,182 that a camera is on. 322 00:34:12,182 --> 00:34:13,782 How would it be now? 323 00:34:13,782 --> 00:34:18,253 Can a man take another wife? 324 00:34:28,920 --> 00:34:33,408 She doesn't want to do anything that is haram. 325 00:34:33,408 --> 00:34:36,334 No, I understand, I understand. 326 00:34:36,334 --> 00:34:42,162 I think if you have a real reason 327 00:34:42,162 --> 00:34:46,782 you can demand an explanation. 328 00:34:46,782 --> 00:35:01,849 You can't demand that he should divorce the other woman. If he has done it the right way you can't demand that. 329 00:35:01,849 --> 00:35:08,249 Akhdar must now for the seventh time hear that she must share her husband with another woman. 330 00:35:08,249 --> 00:35:12,998 And she should not turn a few slaps into a big deal. 331 00:35:12,998 --> 00:35:22,495 I think if you are scared for your life...but he is not like that, is he, your husband? No, no. 332 00:35:22,495 --> 00:35:29,252 So I don't think she needs to ring the police, since she says it is not serious. 333 00:35:29,252 --> 00:35:34,515 He just hits me like this since I would not love him. 334 00:35:34,515 --> 00:35:43,515 This is something which can be solved within the family so I don't think it is serious. 335 00:35:43,515 --> 00:35:49,082 What about love in bed? 336 00:35:49,082 --> 00:35:53,586 Can you ring me? 337 00:35:53,586 --> 00:35:59,182 The last question which they are to talk about over the phone is about sex. 338 00:35:59,182 --> 00:36:05,916 The imam had said that a man cannot violate a woman's personhood. 339 00:36:05,916 --> 00:36:10,258 But what will he say to Akhdar? 340 00:36:10,258 --> 00:36:18,249 Can the man who hit her and who married another still have a right to her body? 341 00:36:18,249 --> 00:36:23,515 I have read a few books about this 342 00:36:23,515 --> 00:36:31,782 and there are two ways a woman can say No. 343 00:36:31,782 --> 00:36:37,915 When she is ill she can say no, and there is nothing wrong with that. 344 00:36:37,915 --> 00:36:43,672 And the second way is when she has her period. 345 00:36:43,672 --> 00:36:51,427 These are the two times you can say no. 346 00:36:51,427 --> 00:36:55,982 When we revealed our hidden recording, the imam says that he meant that both the man and the woman 347 00:36:55,982 --> 00:37:03,362 should fulfill each other's sexual needs if there is no obstacle such as sickness or menstruation, 348 00:37:03,362 --> 00:37:08,982 and that family conflicts should first be resolved within the family and authorities should only be involved 349 00:37:08,982 --> 00:37:11,930 in serious cases. 350 00:37:14,090 --> 00:37:21,515 I think that people have come into contact with ideas of equality and this relationship between men 351 00:37:21,515 --> 00:37:32,782 and women, and that there is a large population that does not want this type of "Imam." 352 00:37:32,782 --> 00:37:39,609 Yes, this is good. Equal rights. That purple one. 353 00:37:39,609 --> 00:37:43,049 And there is opposition among Muslims. 354 00:37:43,049 --> 00:37:46,342 Azam and the others at the Women's Network 355 00:37:46,342 --> 00:37:49,756 have gone to Tensta to demonstrate on International Women's Day. 356 00:37:49,756 --> 00:37:53,262 "We don't accept that our daughters and sisters should 357 00:37:53,262 --> 00:37:56,606 be mistreated and murdered for having a boyfriend, 358 00:37:56,606 --> 00:38:08,982 or are no longer virgins. We want our children to grow up to be equal individuals." 359 00:38:11,690 --> 00:38:24,261 And in January, Rinkeby's people's house was full of deeply religious Somali Sufis, who protested by celebrating Mawlid 360 00:38:24,261 --> 00:38:36,428 Mohammad's birthday, which is as forbidden among the ultra-orthodox Muslims as Christmas is for Jehova's Witnesses. 361 00:38:36,428 --> 00:38:45,249 They call themselves Muslims and say they have the same prophet as we do. 362 00:38:45,249 --> 00:38:47,597 But they have interpreted everything falsely. 363 00:38:47,597 --> 00:38:57,182 We think they are spreading false ideas and information especially to women and children. 364 00:38:57,182 --> 00:39:02,523 In London, the Sufi's are called the quiet majority's voice. 365 00:39:02,523 --> 00:39:07,790 They are known for their tolerance and they think religion should be a private thing, 366 00:39:07,790 --> 00:39:15,678 as well as challenging the religious leaders who are spreading Saudi Arabia's ultra orthodox interpretations 367 00:39:15,678 --> 00:39:20,590 of Islam. 368 00:39:20,590 --> 00:39:26,723 Only we who are educated in religion but who don't share their beliefs can understand. 369 00:39:26,723 --> 00:39:33,390 They use different methods to deal with different people. 370 00:39:33,390 --> 00:39:35,257 How do you mean? 371 00:39:35,257 --> 00:39:41,011 When they meet with Swedish authorities they say what they think they want to hear. 372 00:39:41,011 --> 00:39:49,400 It is the same in Britain and Arab countries. 373 00:39:53,862 --> 00:39:58,867 We end our journey with those we rang first. 374 00:39:58,867 --> 00:40:02,733 The Islamic Cultural Centre in Rinkeby. 375 00:40:02,733 --> 00:40:06,067 It took a while for the women to get an appointment with the imam. 376 00:40:06,067 --> 00:40:13,645 But now he is waiting for them, one late Friday night in Rinkeby Square. 377 00:40:13,645 --> 00:40:24,867 We have also heard that it is here that the most hardline interpretations of the Quran are spread. 378 00:40:24,867 --> 00:40:28,467 I say that when we speak about religion 379 00:40:28,467 --> 00:40:31,133 we have to talk about everything. 380 00:40:31,133 --> 00:40:40,400 If I am going to lie with her one night, then I lie with the other the second night, if she is there. 381 00:40:40,400 --> 00:40:45,224 It has to be equal. 382 00:40:45,224 --> 00:40:50,067 Just as the other imams, he says her husband under certain circumstances has the right to marry 383 00:40:50,067 --> 00:40:52,631 with several women. 384 00:40:52,631 --> 00:40:59,133 But when he finds out that the man hits her, 385 00:40:59,133 --> 00:41:01,000 the women get a reply they have not heard before. 386 00:41:01,000 --> 00:41:04,467 If he does this, she has the right to report him to the police. 387 00:41:04,467 --> 00:41:07,051 This is the most important thing. 388 00:41:07,051 --> 00:41:10,267 Will he go to prison? 389 00:41:10,267 --> 00:41:12,733 It doesn't matter. 390 00:41:12,733 --> 00:41:18,733 I think the last word is that you have to report him to the police. 391 00:41:18,733 --> 00:41:28,769 Everything he says, doesn't belong in the religion. Understood? 392 00:41:31,133 --> 00:41:34,682 The result was the opposite of what we expected. 393 00:41:34,682 --> 00:41:40,467 In the small mosque which has a reputation for hardline Islamism 394 00:41:40,467 --> 00:41:49,775 we found the first Imam who says to Akhdar that she must report her husband to the police. 395 00:41:49,775 --> 00:41:57,067 In the really big mosque, where the Swedish ministers go, 396 00:41:57,067 --> 00:42:02,267 the woman is told to give total submission. 397 00:42:02,267 --> 00:42:15,067 "Don't refuse to give love to him, maybe he will change." 398 00:42:15,067 --> 00:42:21,067 We have now asked our questions to all 10 mosques. 399 00:42:21,067 --> 00:42:22,539 We visited 7 of these. 400 00:42:22,539 --> 00:42:24,443 The other 3 we phoned. 401 00:42:24,443 --> 00:42:29,067 Now we know which interpretations of Islam they are spreading. 402 00:42:29,067 --> 00:42:34,933 No mosque says that the Quran gives a man the right to beat his wife. 403 00:42:34,933 --> 00:42:44,458 But according to one mosque, he has the right to do this (man demonstrates) 404 00:42:44,458 --> 00:42:54,067 6 of the 10 say that a Muslim woman is obligated to have sex with her husband even against her will. 405 00:42:54,067 --> 00:42:58,622 "She must accept, she must accept." 406 00:42:58,622 --> 00:43:07,191 6 mosques say that the woman should not go to the police if the man hits her. 407 00:43:07,191 --> 00:43:14,342 They think the problem should be resolved in the family, perhaps with the help of an imam. 408 00:43:14,342 --> 00:43:21,285 "Not the police. You are Muslim and will have a lot of problems. They might take away your children." 409 00:43:21,285 --> 00:43:28,733 In one mosque, there is a mixed statement, another gives us a weak answer. 410 00:43:28,733 --> 00:43:37,121 Only 2 say that the woman should definitely report the mistreatment to the police. 411 00:43:37,121 --> 00:43:46,200 In 9 mosques we were told that the man under certain circumstances could marry several women. 412 00:43:46,200 --> 00:43:50,400 "He can marry another. It is not haram." 413 00:43:50,400 --> 00:43:55,467 "It is allowed to have up to four wives." 414 00:43:55,467 --> 00:44:03,619 Only one says the man can't do this and that one must follow Swedish law in Sweden. 415 00:44:07,867 --> 00:44:16,758 How many of the 400,000 Muslims in Sweden do you think agree with these imams who say it should be resolved within the family, 416 00:44:16,758 --> 00:44:21,267 and have sex against your will, and accept your husband marrying another? 417 00:44:21,267 --> 00:44:33,533 It is difficult to say, but spontaneously I would say very few. Very few would go along with this kind of humiliation. 418 00:44:33,533 --> 00:44:36,133 But these are the spokespeople for the whole group? 419 00:44:36,133 --> 00:44:41,066 Yes. This is the problem. 420 00:44:48,467 --> 00:44:55,959 You can go on our website and chat about the report with Nadia Yllner and Sanna Klinghoffer. 421 00:44:58,933 --> 00:45:03,000 I am going to visit several of the mosques where we recorded secretly. 422 00:45:03,000 --> 00:45:08,933 First, the most important in Sweden. Stockholm's mosque in Medborgarplatsen. 423 00:45:08,933 --> 00:45:16,467 A spokesperson for the Islamic Association, Abdallah Saleh, will answer the questions. 424 00:45:16,467 --> 00:45:19,533 The five o'clock prayer meeting has just ended. 425 00:45:19,533 --> 00:45:23,667 We meet on the top floor. 426 00:45:23,667 --> 00:45:34,600 The politics of this mosque and interpretation of Islam fits in perfectly with Swedish society and to Sweden. 427 00:45:34,600 --> 00:45:41,800 Swedish society's basic values are democracy, equality, parity between man and woman. 428 00:45:41,800 --> 00:45:45,000 Does this clash with what you teach? 429 00:45:45,000 --> 00:45:50,467 I think everything you have mentioned is part of Islam. 430 00:45:50,467 --> 00:45:52,819 We don't have any problems with them. 431 00:45:52,819 --> 00:45:54,600 So men and women have equal rights? 432 00:45:54,600 --> 00:45:59,067 They each have their roles and they complete each other. 433 00:45:59,067 --> 00:46:04,661 But when it comes to rights, there is no difference. 434 00:46:04,661 --> 00:46:06,333 No difference. 435 00:46:06,333 --> 00:46:11,325 We follow Sweden's laws. Stockholm's mosque is in Stockholm, in Sweden 436 00:46:11,325 --> 00:46:13,809 and it is under Swedish laws. 437 00:46:13,809 --> 00:46:21,147 If a man mistreats and abuses his wife, should she report it to the police? 438 00:46:21,147 --> 00:46:23,733 She? Of course. 439 00:46:23,733 --> 00:46:29,000 That's how it is. That's what you say when you give advice to women? 440 00:46:29,000 --> 00:46:34,000 If someone came to ask me that is what I would answer, of course. 441 00:46:34,000 --> 00:46:42,800 I told Abdallah Saleh that two women had come to the mosque's family counselor, the imam Mahmud Adam 442 00:46:42,800 --> 00:46:49,267 and after the woman had spoken about her husband having another wife, and that she had been given the 443 00:46:49,267 --> 00:46:53,400 advice to accept this, since the man has the right to four wives. 444 00:46:53,400 --> 00:47:07,494 They also said that the man had mistreated the woman, and he replied that she should still not refuse him sex and not report it to the police. 445 00:47:07,494 --> 00:47:12,904 I think it is an individual question, for each person. God created us free. 446 00:47:12,904 --> 00:47:22,000 Every person who is mistreated by another, it is she or he who decides what they should do. 447 00:47:22,000 --> 00:47:28,400 They should not wait for an imam or minister to tell them what to do. 448 00:47:28,400 --> 00:47:33,245 So you should not have said this? That she should not report it to the police? 449 00:47:33,245 --> 00:47:36,067 And that she should have sex with the one who had mistreated her? 450 00:47:36,067 --> 00:47:38,600 No, I don't know. This should not have happened. 451 00:47:38,600 --> 00:47:40,867 It should not have happened, you say. 452 00:47:40,867 --> 00:47:43,485 Now that I am here, could I ask him do you think? 453 00:47:43,485 --> 00:47:47,267 Yes, if he accepts and he is here. 454 00:47:47,267 --> 00:47:55,400 Abdallah Salah goes down and talks to the imam who met the women 455 00:47:55,400 --> 00:48:04,800 No, but you can talk to him after five minutes on the phone. 456 00:48:04,800 --> 00:48:12,231 Words against words. 457 00:48:12,231 --> 00:48:18,895 Now they don't know that we have filmed the meeting between the women and the imam. 458 00:48:18,895 --> 00:48:28,648 OK, good, but you never told her that, just to clarify, you never told her not to report him to the police? 459 00:48:28,648 --> 00:48:33,102 Okay, thank you. 460 00:48:33,102 --> 00:48:35,667 So you trust him? 461 00:48:35,667 --> 00:48:43,415 I trust him, until proven otherwise. 462 00:48:51,933 --> 00:48:57,417 Here we have this meeting filmed. 463 00:48:57,417 --> 00:49:05,400 You can listen yourself and see for yourself, this meeting here in your mosque. 464 00:49:05,400 --> 00:49:17,400 "It can be a little difficult. Do you know why? The police will take him into custody. 465 00:49:17,400 --> 00:49:29,000 and he will be given 2 or 3 years in prison." 466 00:49:29,000 --> 00:49:31,267 What do you say? 467 00:49:31,267 --> 00:49:37,495 Well, he doesn't say clearly to her that you should not report him. 468 00:49:37,495 --> 00:49:40,067 He advices her. 469 00:49:40,067 --> 00:49:47,067 Yes. Well not really, but I judge this to be misconduct in service, nothing else. He cannot do this. 470 00:49:47,067 --> 00:49:51,334 He cannot. 471 00:49:51,334 --> 00:49:53,533 How serious do you think it is? 472 00:49:53,533 --> 00:50:01,133 I think it is very serious. I have to call him in or contact the management to call him in for a conversation. 473 00:50:01,133 --> 00:50:08,067 This is what one finds, for these two women who came here, this is the reality. 474 00:50:08,067 --> 00:50:11,675 One couldn't trust you when it comes to these questions. 475 00:50:11,675 --> 00:50:16,667 No, wait a bit, you have come here to show what? What is it you want to say? 476 00:50:16,667 --> 00:50:17,828 But this is what the women have... 477 00:50:17,828 --> 00:50:24,237 No but remember that he did not tell her do not report him. 478 00:50:24,237 --> 00:50:38,267 He tried to...our role here is to try to keep people together. But the way he did it, if she understood 479 00:50:38,267 --> 00:50:41,200 that she should not report this, I said that it was misconduct. 480 00:50:41,200 --> 00:50:42,255 If she understood? It is clear, he... 481 00:50:42,255 --> 00:50:48,400 Then it is misconduct. It has to do with an individual's judgement and nothing else. 482 00:50:48,400 --> 00:50:58,672 We don't have this as a policy. We are very clear about this. In the routine, you can talk for five minutes 483 00:50:58,672 --> 00:51:06,600 or one hour, but what he has done is unacceptable for me as someone responsible or someone in 484 00:51:06,600 --> 00:51:07,820 the management. 485 00:51:07,820 --> 00:51:12,333 Is he a total exception do you think? He has nothing to do with your viewpoints? 486 00:51:12,333 --> 00:51:13,933 No, no. 487 00:51:13,933 --> 00:51:15,600 Why does he say this then? 488 00:51:15,600 --> 00:51:23,467 You can ask him. But for me, as an institution, as a mosque, everything that has happened here should not happen. 489 00:51:23,467 --> 00:51:26,267 Ring him up and tell him you watched this then. 490 00:51:26,267 --> 00:51:40,400 Abdallah ringer Mahmud Adam and we agree to return the next day at 9 o'clock for an interview. 491 00:51:40,400 --> 00:51:49,400 I would like you to watch it and express yourself. 492 00:51:49,400 --> 00:51:55,867 Before this, we had time to visit Uppsala mosque, where the family counselor Abdul Waddud told 493 00:51:55,867 --> 00:52:03,267 the mistreated woman in niqab to ask pardon of her husband because she had made him angry. 494 00:52:03,267 --> 00:52:10,305 I am meeting Khalid Chowdery who is chairman of the Islamic Association in Uppsala. 495 00:52:10,305 --> 00:52:16,400 I asked him the same questions as in Stockholm and got the same answers. Here we follow Swedish laws 496 00:52:16,400 --> 00:52:18,800 and Swedish values. 497 00:52:18,800 --> 00:52:24,133 I speak about family counselor Waddud and his meeting with the two women. 498 00:52:24,133 --> 00:52:37,467 About three times, he is told that, of the two women that came in, one was mistreated 499 00:52:37,467 --> 00:52:51,667 by her husband, who has several wives. We have recorded this meeting when the two women visited. They are wearing niqab. 500 00:52:51,667 --> 00:52:53,133 I will play it for you, is that okay? 501 00:52:53,133 --> 00:53:02,968 "I will apologize, and hope God helps me. That I should cleanse my heart and not be jealous." 502 00:53:02,968 --> 00:53:05,638 I won't ring the police. 503 00:53:05,638 --> 00:53:08,634 No you shouldn't ring the police. 504 00:53:08,634 --> 00:53:11,304 God helps us. 505 00:53:11,304 --> 00:53:18,067 "No you should not ring the police" - crystal clear. 506 00:53:18,067 --> 00:53:26,467 He is personally responsible. It is not our mosque or association. 507 00:53:26,467 --> 00:53:34,318 The woman who was mistreated should ask pardon, he said. 508 00:53:42,419 --> 00:53:57,512 We follow Swedish law. It depends on her, there is a law there to protect her. 509 00:53:57,512 --> 00:54:01,267 Yes, but he tells her not to go to the police. 510 00:54:01,267 --> 00:54:03,400 Yes but that is his responsibility. 511 00:54:03,400 --> 00:54:08,681 What kind of viewpoint on women is this? What kind of viewpoint on humans? 512 00:54:08,681 --> 00:54:11,267 That a man has a right to four wives? 513 00:54:11,267 --> 00:54:14,161 That is not legal. 514 00:54:14,161 --> 00:54:18,867 It is not legal in Sweden, in Swedish law. 515 00:54:18,867 --> 00:54:21,267 Yes, but this is Sweden where this is happening. 516 00:54:21,267 --> 00:54:24,067 Yes, and that is what we also believe. 517 00:54:24,067 --> 00:54:27,267 We accept this also. We don't have four wives. 518 00:54:27,267 --> 00:54:42,067 She can go to the police if she wants or she can forgive him if she wants. It depends on her. 519 00:54:42,067 --> 00:54:51,467 He is also a person who has studied Islam and he has his own understanding. He is not speaking for Uppsala mosque. 520 00:54:54,929 --> 00:54:58,133 It is his private understanding? 521 00:54:58,133 --> 00:55:00,624 Perhaps. 522 00:55:00,624 --> 00:55:06,034 I phone Abdul Waddud, the family counselor in the secret recording. 523 00:55:06,034 --> 00:55:10,733 He doesn't want to meet me or see the material. 524 00:55:10,733 --> 00:55:13,504 Should the woman ask for pardon when a man hits her? 525 00:55:17,933 --> 00:55:25,632 Back to the mosque in Stockholm where we were promised an interview with Mahmud Adam. 526 00:55:25,632 --> 00:55:32,733 But the management has had a crisis meeting and decided that he is suspended until further investigation 527 00:55:32,733 --> 00:55:35,400 and that he is forbidden from talking to media. 528 00:55:35,400 --> 00:55:38,704 But we want to speak to him. 529 00:55:38,704 --> 00:55:45,740 I am here to take responsibility, and we have decided the employees under investigation should not speak. 530 00:55:45,740 --> 00:55:50,467 Why not? Why can't he speak with us? That would be the best way to investigate. 531 00:55:50,467 --> 00:55:59,649 Yes, that's right. That's why I met you yesterday and I am here today to listen to you and we are very 532 00:55:59,649 --> 00:56:06,638 grateful and we see this as very serious and will do this investigation and return to you. 533 00:56:06,638 --> 00:56:12,333 Today you are not certain, despite hearing and seeing it, that he has done something wrong? 534 00:56:12,333 --> 00:56:20,467 I heard Mahmud and heard you and it is not just me who is responsible. We will investigate and come back 535 00:56:20,467 --> 00:56:22,533 with a response. Are you satisfied? 536 00:56:22,533 --> 00:56:24,239 So you have changed your mind from yesterday? 537 00:56:24,239 --> 00:56:31,200 I have not changed my mind. I have said we have a policy, we will compare everything Mahmud has done 538 00:56:31,200 --> 00:56:36,467 with that policy. If it is wrong, we will call it misconduct and next time you will not need to use a 539 00:56:36,467 --> 00:56:47,933 hidden camera, you can ring at any time and come at any time and film any activity you want to film. 540 00:56:47,933 --> 00:56:49,267 We have nothing to hide. 541 00:56:49,267 --> 00:56:52,567 Was it not a good thing we used a hidden camera, or we would have believed what you said? 542 00:56:52,567 --> 00:56:56,133 We are very thankful you helped us to improve us as I said yesterday 543 00:56:56,133 --> 00:57:00,533 And I am still thanking you for this. 544 00:57:00,533 --> 00:57:03,793 Otherwise we would never have done an investigation 545 00:57:06,894 --> 99:59:59,999 Here Mission: Investigation ends tonight. Next week...