0:00:01.600,0:00:04.087 Mission: Investigation 0:00:04.087,0:00:09.000 There are today around 400,000 Muslims in Sweden. 0:00:09.000,0:00:15.067 And the struggle for society is to integrate and build bridges to Islam. 0:00:15.067,0:00:24.752 The most important mosque in Sweden, in Medborgarplatsen, Stockholm, has been visited by many well-known politicians. 0:00:24.752,0:00:32.926 But how do the leaders, the imams in the mosques, relate to basic values in Sweden's democracy, 0:00:32.926,0:00:38.733 such as the value of every human being, equality, and parity between men and women. 0:00:38.733,0:00:41.267 This is the official picture that is given. 0:00:41.267,0:00:57.333 Of course in this mosque, everyone has to know that, as I have repeated several times, this (mosque) follows Swedish laws and that no one is allowed to say anything against those laws. 0:00:57.333,0:01:03.600 Are they honest, when it comes to for example, the viewpoint on women's position as opposed to men? 0:01:03.600,0:01:10.067 Our reporter Nadja Yllner has sought the help of two Muslim women in niqab 0:01:10.067,0:01:15.600 to see and hear what imams in 10 Swedish mosques say they should do 0:01:15.600,0:01:20.871 when told among other things that the man has several wives, and has mistreated his wife. 0:01:25.933,0:01:30.800 Two women are going to help us to find out if there are Muslim leaders 0:01:30.800,0:01:40.733 who are spreading values in their congregations which they perhaps would not admit to publicly. 0:01:40.733,0:01:47.950 One of them is equipped with a hidden camera, the other with a microphone. 0:01:47.950,0:01:53.733 The idea is that they should ask for advice and hear what the imams say when they think 0:01:53.733,0:01:58.533 that it's just two believing Muslim women who are listening. 0:01:58.533,0:02:03.800 The women are going to contact 10 of Sweden's largest mosques. 0:02:03.800,0:02:07.733 We have chosen mosques spread out over the whole country, 0:02:07.733,0:02:19.133 which have many attendees, and so are influential in Sweden, which has been called the world's most equal society. 0:02:19.133,0:02:23.754 Imams' Advice 0:02:33.948,0:02:39.733 It was here in Rinkeby and Tensta that we thought of this investigation. 0:02:39.733,0:02:49.204 Here, three Muslim congregations plan to build a mosque each, with space for up to a 1000 people in each. 0:02:49.204,0:02:52.267 And when women want to pray? Can they join in, in the large space? 0:02:52.267,0:03:02.800 No, the women's section is here, and it's the same as the other. 0:03:02.800,0:03:05.017 Ibrahim Bourale is the chairman of the Islamic Association in Järva, and responsible for one 0:03:05.017,0:03:06.733 of the planned mosques. 0:03:06.733,0:03:08.200 And it continues here? 0:03:08.200,0:03:10.067 Yes, we will see if... 0:03:10.067,0:03:13.445 We live here in Sweden, we are Swedish Muslims 0:03:13.445,0:03:26.333 and we feel that we deserve to have a space to have good services and activities. 0:03:26.333,0:03:31.400 And one floor up we have the women's section, and here... 0:03:31.400,0:03:38.871 The politicians trust the Islamic Association in Järva, which has received the best plot of land. 0:03:38.871,0:03:39.933 Bo Sundin, chairman of Rinkeby-Kista district 0:03:39.933,0:03:43.028 We have a long history of co-operation with them in many areas 0:03:43.028,0:03:53.708 because we have found out that they are a serious and very active actor working to become a part of Swedish society here. 0:04:17.943,0:04:23.926 Today the congregation hold Friday prayers in the Rinkeby people's hall. 0:04:23.926,0:04:30.029 Arabic: Oh Lord, let us die in your faith, and summon us among your people... 0:04:38.926,0:04:45.126 The female visitors do not want us to film them. 0:04:45.126,0:04:50.949 They go in the back way and then up to the gallery. 0:04:51.811,0:04:58.060 There they sit in crowded rows, but they can never see the imam they are listening to, 0:04:58.060,0:05:01.993 since the curtain hangs down in front of them. 0:05:01.993,0:05:09.978 ...is a big problem, it can lead to that one lives in phobia and fear 0:05:34.460,0:05:38.926 What struck me when I came here was how many men there were everywhere. 0:05:38.926,0:05:54.074 It was possible to go to a restaurant and not see a single woman. 0:05:54.074,0:06:01.926 In one restaurant I was invited to sit behind drapery in a room specially for women. 0:06:01.926,0:06:07.260 In another restaurant, a man gestured with his hand to the table further back where he thought we women 0:06:07.260,0:06:10.073 should sit. 0:06:10.073,0:06:16.528 I spoke with a woman who was spat at because her shawl wasn't long enough. 0:06:16.528,0:06:22.660 I heard about others who had begun to use headscarves so they could continue to live in the area. 0:06:22.660,0:06:29.460 Here it is easy to find men who think that God gives them the right to marry several women. 0:06:29.460,0:06:39.726 One has to be just with all, good standard of living, good life for all, this is our religion which says this. 0:06:39.726,0:06:42.660 I have four. 0:06:42.660,0:06:43.811 You have four wives? 0:06:43.811,0:06:44.660 Yes. 0:06:44.660,0:06:45.994 No! Is that true? 0:06:45.994,0:06:47.155 It's true. 0:06:47.155,0:06:47.993 How does it go? 0:06:47.993,0:06:49.663 It's good. 0:06:49.663,0:06:52.393 But how does it work? You can only marry one person here in Sweden. 0:06:52.393,0:06:56.478 No, four is normal for Muslims. 0:06:56.478,0:06:57.732 I have papers with me. 0:06:57.732,0:06:59.417 Can I see? 0:07:03.201,0:07:12.000 In Swedish law, it's only one, four is not possible. 0:07:12.000,0:07:17.933 In the papers from the Population Registry are the names of the four women who had borne his children. 0:07:17.933,0:07:21.067 Only one is registered as his wife. 0:07:21.067,0:07:25.986 The others he had married while abroad. 0:07:25.986,0:07:27.533 But why do you do this? 0:07:27.533,0:07:29.306 It's normal. 0:07:29.306,0:07:31.303 You don't think its a problem? 0:07:31.303,0:07:35.000 It is, it's a big problem. 0:07:35.000,0:07:36.200 You don't think this is right? 0:07:36.200,0:07:41.404 No, I don't like this. It's never right if you have four wives. 0:07:41.404,0:07:44.817 They will be jealous of each other and then there are problems with the children. 0:07:44.817,0:07:49.868 Islam does not say this. Islam does not say this. It isn't like this. 0:08:00.867,0:08:13.800 Many say they know just what Islam is, but just as in Christianity there is in Islam both new interpreters and literalists 0:08:13.800,0:08:21.800 There are imams who are reminiscent of the ex-Archbishop Hammar who spoke out for the rights of homosexuals, 0:08:21.800,0:08:31.000 and imams more like Pentecostal Pastor Åke Green who states that homosexuality is a cancer in the body of society. 0:08:31.000,0:08:41.600 If you compare ex-Archbishop Hammar and Pastor Ulf Ekman and Pentecostal Pastor Åke Green, 0:08:41.600,0:08:48.667 none of them believe the same thing, though they are part of the same religion and the same interpretative tradition. 0:08:48.667,0:08:56.288 One takes it for granted. That's how it is. But not with Muslims, they are all lumped in to one group and people say "that's how they are." 0:08:56.288,0:09:01.400 Professor Mohammad Fazlhashemi has written books on 0:09:01.400,0:09:04.733 how Islam has changed through history. 0:09:04.733,0:09:08.800 He is himself a believing Muslim and prays daily. 0:09:08.800,0:09:16.800 But he believes that Islam, precisely like Christianity, must adjust itself to the time we live in 0:09:16.800,0:09:22.800 and he doesn't like seeing the literalists message spreading. 0:09:22.800,0:09:29.667 At the same time he is afraid that his criticism could be abused by anti-immigrant hostile forces. 0:09:29.667,0:09:34.949 It's a delicate balance between extremes, because this is about extremes. 0:09:34.949,0:09:43.400 We have the anti-immigrant islamophobes on one side 0:09:43.400,0:09:49.087 and on the other the literalist traditionalists. 0:09:54.000,0:09:59.667 Akhdar, as she calls herself, is herself a believing Muslim. 0:09:59.667,0:10:06.018 She grew up in a Muslim country and knows the religious codes. 0:10:06.018,0:10:15.867 The other woman calls herself Mahnaz, she comes from the same country but she has left Islam. 0:10:15.867,0:10:23.688 Together they will contact 10 mosques and try to get a response to these 4 questions: 0:10:23.688,0:10:29.200 1. Can a man marry more than one woman? 0:10:29.200,0:10:37.434 2. Does a woman have the right to by herself decide over her own body and refuse to have sex with her husband? 0:10:37.434,0:10:45.867 3. Can a man hit his wife? 4. And if he does can she ring the police? 0:10:45.867,0:10:51.133 The questions will show whether some of Sweden's largest mosques try to take away from women 0:10:51.133,0:10:57.775 rights they have according to Swedish laws. 0:10:57.775,0:11:04.091 They will begin by contacting two congregations in Rinkeby which have both 0:11:04.091,0:11:12.800 been given plots from Stockholm with the possibility to build a mosque each. 0:11:12.800,0:11:17.094 If it is so that there are imams in these congregations who say that you as a woman must accept 0:11:17.094,0:11:20.867 that your husband can marry more than one, what would that mean? 0:11:20.867,0:11:25.267 It isn't acceptable. We live in Sweden and that isn't acceptable. 0:11:25.267,0:11:27.357 Would you want to co-operate with them then? 0:11:27.357,0:11:31.667 No, but we co-operate with them because they don't have that viewpoint. 0:11:31.667,0:11:37.933 If the imams say you have to have sex with your husband except if you have your period or you are ill... 0:11:37.933,0:11:43.100 This is completely alien to me. It sounds very strange. 0:11:43.100,0:11:45.533 If it comes up in these organizations... 0:11:45.533,0:11:50.733 In that case it would be single individuals who have these viewpoints and it must be brought into the light 0:11:50.733,0:11:55.567 to make sure that it is minimized. 0:11:57.125,0:12:09.867 Akhdar begins by ringing the spokesperson for the Islamic Cultural Centre in Rinkeby Square. 0:12:09.867,0:12:21.135 Akhdar says that her husband was in Iran and married another woman, that she feels terrible and needs to talk with an imam. 0:12:21.135,0:12:25.067 I will give you a number you can call and you can come in as well. 0:12:25.067,0:12:33.133 Many women are in the same situation, I promise you. 0:12:33.133,0:12:38.712 They are my sisters. 0:12:38.712,0:12:50.185 They say they are happy. I even know of a woman whose husband married again and they help each other! 0:12:54.548,0:13:07.979 It will be a while before she can meet the imam at Rinkeby Square, an imam whose response is different from the others. 0:13:10.800,0:13:17.675 The Women's Network in Stockholm helps women and youngsters 0:13:17.675,0:13:21.576 who are exposed to honor violence and oppression. 0:13:21.576,0:13:27.667 Here no one knows about the two women unknown to them with the hidden camera. 0:13:27.667,0:13:31.491 But when we ask these women how they would react if they 0:13:31.491,0:13:37.667 heard an imam say it is acceptable to have several wives or that a woman is obliged to have sex against 0:13:37.667,0:13:43.008 her will, it seems no one would be surprised. 0:13:43.008,0:13:45.609 I would not at all be surprised. 0:13:45.609,0:13:46.933 Azam Qaraee, Women's Network 0:13:46.933,0:13:53.000 Because again, according to the religion, the woman is made for the man. 0:13:53.000,0:13:59.912 And if she says anything against this, then it's "poor man." 0:13:59.912,0:14:02.933 One of the girls who has been given shelter by the network 0:14:02.933,0:14:08.933 was mistreated by the family and forcibly removed when she was 16. 0:14:08.933,0:14:16.747 Now she is 21 and has a job but the pressure from home has not let up. 0:14:16.747,0:14:24.667 Her father is deeply religious and often asks the imam what is right and what is wrong. 0:14:24.667,0:14:32.800 In front of me the imam says to my father, "it is not okay that your daughter comes home late. She can't go out and be with boys." 0:14:32.800,0:14:35.067 "She can't have a boyfriend, it is not allowed." 0:14:35.067,0:14:37.400 But the imam says this to your father, when you are listening? 0:14:37.400,0:14:39.084 And in front of me, yes. 0:14:39.084,0:14:40.000 What do you think of that? 0:14:40.000,0:14:43.067 I think it is unprofessional and low. 0:14:43.067,0:14:48.600 For me it means that he doesn't know what life in the real world means. 0:14:48.600,0:14:52.133 But the imam stated that your father should guide you, who is 21 years old? 0:14:52.133,0:14:59.333 Yes, and my mother as well, who is 53 years. 0:14:59.333,0:15:07.088 The imams have an extreme influence, if they recognize that a woman's sexuality belongs to the woman herself 0:15:07.088,0:15:16.067 and no brother or father can decide, and we have never seen anyone who says this, and we miss it.. 0:15:16.067,0:15:22.600 the day we find an imam or religious leader who says this then I think we would soon be 0:15:22.600,0:15:26.267 finished with these problems. 0:15:26.267,0:15:33.267 Even ethnic Swedes sometimes come to the Women's Network, but then they 0:15:33.267,0:15:39.867 belong to Christian sects such as Jehova's Witness. 0:15:39.867,0:15:51.533 There are Christian sects here in Sweden where we have youngsters with the exact same virginity standards, controls, 0:15:51.533,0:16:02.169 that individuals cannot think or choose themselves, it is the exact same thing. 0:16:08.867,0:16:16.585 It is important that the women are not recognized, this is why they are going in niqab. 0:16:16.585,0:16:25.000 They will play two different roles. Akhdar is the weak and abused but deeply religious woman, 0:16:25.000,0:16:36.118 Mahnaz is her stronger relative, who thinks there should be limits for what a woman should endure. 0:16:46.800,0:16:56.133 With one exception all the congregations we contacted have directly or indirectly taken money from society. 0:16:56.133,0:17:04.333 Half had municipal grants, 5 of 10 had religious community grants from the state. 0:17:04.333,0:17:09.400 This is a grant that has its own law, which says that: 0:17:09.400,0:17:20.333 "Support should only be granted to religious communities which contribute to uphold and strengthen society's basic values." 0:17:20.333,0:17:26.467 This means that among other things the community should "develop understanding of equality between 0:17:26.467,0:17:30.133 men and women." 0:17:30.133,0:17:38.800 There is only one religious community that has not accepted state grants and that is Jehovah's Witness. 0:17:38.800,0:17:45.285 They receive no money as they call their members not to vote. 0:17:45.285,0:17:55.618 If a community openly states that men can marry several wives, this could lead to state grants being taken away. 0:18:07.741,0:18:16.818 It was in Rinkeby we had the idea to do our investigation and it is here we thought the women's' journey would begin. 0:18:16.818,0:18:23.134 But when they arrive in Rinkeby and the Islamic Association in Järva, they don't get to meet any imam. 0:18:23.134,0:18:29.800 I can't give you a name, but if you go for example to Medborgarplatsen's big mosque... 0:18:29.800,0:18:35.667 They are told to go to Stockholm's mosque at Medborgarplatsen instead. 0:18:35.667,0:18:41.948 Stockholm's mosque is Sweden's Muslims' most visible face to the outside world. 0:18:42.200,0:18:51.933 It is here government representatives go when they want to meet representatives of Sweden's Muslims. 0:18:51.933,0:19:01.846 Last February, the civil minister Stefan Attefall attended Friday prayers. 0:19:06.333,0:19:12.548 The women go into Stockholm mosque's family counseling. 0:19:16.679,0:19:22.467 The imam who is there sits there every day between 2 and 4 o'clock. 0:19:22.467,0:19:25.667 Now we will hear what he has to say. 0:19:25.667,0:19:35.783 Each Muslim is allowed to have up to four wives, but there is a requirement. 0:19:35.783,0:19:48.543 The requirement is to be able to support them and give them love. 0:19:48.543,0:19:55.462 I mean that he should not treat one wife better than the others. 0:19:55.462,0:20:06.250 He should love them equally, and treat them with what is it called...equality. 0:20:06.250,0:20:10.462 Live equally with them. Do you understand? 0:20:10.462,0:20:11.316 Yes. 0:20:11.316,0:20:26.583 Can you listen now...so, if he does this, it is okay. I mean if he wants to. 0:20:26.583,0:20:32.568 But it is very difficult. He gets very angry with me. 0:20:32.568,0:20:39.183 If I say anything he gets angry and hits me. 0:20:39.183,0:20:48.891 And the neighbor saw that I had...what is it called...sakhm (bruises). 0:20:48.891,0:20:55.323 She had big yellow bruises over her body. 0:20:55.323,0:20:58.583 He is not allowed to hit her. He is not allowed to hit her at all. 0:20:58.583,0:21:10.392 But he says that the Quran says that if the woman does not listen to her husband, the man can hit his wife. 0:21:10.392,0:21:16.800 He can only do a little like this, with his hand like this, where it doesn't hurt. 0:21:16.800,0:21:18.896 Just like this. Watch now. 0:21:18.896,0:21:20.412 He can only say "I am angry with you." 0:21:20.412,0:21:27.082 Not hit, not hit and hit. 0:21:28.867,0:21:34.859 Now the imam knows that Akhdar's husband has done two things which are illegal in Sweden. 0:21:34.859,0:21:40.992 He has mistreated his wife and married two women. 0:21:40.992,0:21:46.811 But still the imam says Akhdar should not refuse to have sex with him. 0:21:46.811,0:21:49.226 No, she is not allowed to do that. 0:21:49.226,0:21:54.218 But love must come from the heart, this doesn't work. 0:21:54.218,0:21:56.059 It does. Why doesn't it work? 0:21:56.059,0:22:11.592 Because I can't think that my husband can marry a younger woman and that he has done this. 0:22:11.592,0:22:17.325 But why does he want to love her then, why didn't he leave her? 0:22:17.325,0:22:20.525 Why does he want to have her? It means he loves her as well. 0:22:20.525,0:22:23.859 This can't be. 0:22:23.859,0:22:27.859 A man can love four at the same time. 0:22:27.859,0:22:41.564 But she told me that the last time she was badly mistreated and she almost rang the police. 0:22:41.564,0:22:44.592 What do you think? What should I do? 0:22:44.592,0:22:52.192 If you ring the police it can get a little difficult. Do you know why? 0:22:52.192,0:23:05.925 The police will take him into custody and he will be given 2 or 3 years in prison. 0:23:05.925,0:23:15.059 If she rings the police while he is in prison and says, "OK, I've forgiven him, release him from prison." 0:23:15.059,0:23:26.819 The police would say no, he has to remain the whole year. Do you understand me? 0:23:26.819,0:23:38.192 The imam at Sweden's most important mosque tells a mistreated woman not to ring the police. 0:23:38.192,0:23:41.992 Instead he suggests she should give the man more love. 0:23:41.992,0:23:54.325 You can welcome him in a good way and so on and don't refuse him love. 0:23:54.325,0:24:00.659 He might change. He will perhaps change. 0:24:00.659,0:24:05.392 Thank you. 0:24:05.392,0:24:14.925 If the imam in your mosque had said to a woman when she comes to say that her husband had married again 0:24:14.925,0:24:19.552 and the imam then says you have to respect that as long as he treats you equally... 0:24:19.552,0:24:25.392 how would you react? 0:24:25.392,0:24:31.925 With anger and dismay. Because this is against the law. 0:24:31.925,0:24:36.325 Thank you, God willing. Thanks. Peace be with you. 0:24:36.325,0:24:41.459 But if there are imams at the biggest mosque in Sweden who say its better not to go to the police 0:24:41.459,0:24:43.659 what happens then? 0:24:43.659,0:24:58.674 I think that this person should be punished for misconduct. This clearly goes against the law. 0:25:05.059,0:25:10.682 The women's journey continues to Örebro's mosque. 0:25:10.682,0:25:14.859 Over 10,000 people come here every Friday. 0:25:22.905,0:25:27.374 It is not good to ring the police. The police don't do anything. 0:25:27.374,0:25:38.859 The police come and say to the man, get out, and you go to court and divorce. 0:25:38.859,0:25:44.259 So the family will split up. Muslims don't want to split families. 0:25:44.259,0:25:47.205 We want to hold together as a family. 0:25:47.205,0:25:49.018 Yes. 0:25:49.018,0:25:53.125 She is a religious woman. 0:25:53.125,0:26:00.125 So she must know that God allows men to marry with two, three, four. 0:26:02.248,0:26:13.028 He wanted to love her and she is very sad. She refuses to love him. What does the Quran say? 0:26:13.028,0:26:17.325 That is wrong. She must accept. 0:26:17.325,0:26:18.059 She? 0:26:18.059,0:26:22.362 She must have patience then. 0:26:22.362,0:26:26.392 Yes. She must accept. 0:26:26.392,0:26:31.202 If her husband wants love and she says no, that is wrong. 0:26:35.459,0:26:46.557 When they come to the third mosque, the Islamic centre in Malmö, they meet an imam who is just leaving. 0:26:46.557,0:26:48.725 Excuse me. 0:26:48.725,0:26:51.725 Akhdar doesn't have time to ask all her questions. 0:26:51.725,0:26:55.544 But she says that her husband married another woman and 0:26:55.544,0:26:59.659 that she doesn't know what to do because he hits her. 0:26:59.659,0:27:01.605 Roland Vishkurti, Islamic Center in Malmö 0:27:01.605,0:27:04.297 Not the police. You are a Muslim and will have big problems. 0:27:04.297,0:27:07.592 They might take the children away from you as well. 0:27:07.592,0:27:12.059 One time he hit me and the neighbor heard. 0:27:12.059,0:27:16.883 The Swedish just say, "Ring the police, ring the police." 0:27:16.883,0:27:21.643 Yes, in Swedish culture you should ring the police. 0:27:21.643,0:27:25.059 But ask other imams. 0:27:25.059,0:27:25.559 Woman: One has to be patient. 0:27:25.559,0:27:29.921 Patience and prayer. 0:27:29.921,0:27:34.799 The imam commented on the recording saying that he had been misunderstood. 0:27:34.799,0:27:43.181 That he would never defend someone who had mistreated another 0:27:43.181,0:27:44.597 and that he is not a person who doesn't stand up for the weak. 0:27:44.597,0:27:47.818 God help you. Peace be with you. 0:27:50.751,0:27:54.249 When Akhdar rang to the mosque family counselor, it was different. 0:27:54.249,0:28:01.797 He thought she should herself decide if it felt right that she should ring the police. 0:28:10.673,0:28:15.850 The fourth mosque they visited is called Salsabil and is in a normal private property in Malmö. 0:28:15.850,0:28:24.071 They are referred to an Egyptian sheikh who thinks Akhdar should have patience with her husband 0:28:24.071,0:28:29.515 even though he had hit her and married another. 0:28:29.515,0:28:33.150 During the meeting, there is a mosque member who translates 0:28:33.150,0:28:36.649 and reports what the sheikh has said. 0:28:36.649,0:28:38.982 As long as your husband doesn't do anything haram, 0:28:38.982,0:28:42.915 you should never never think of going to the police. 0:28:42.915,0:28:46.827 It would be a big sin. 0:28:46.827,0:28:50.782 I don't want to do it. It's wrong. 0:28:50.782,0:28:54.382 Instead of telling her to go to the police 0:28:54.382,0:28:56.515 he says this: 0:28:56.515,0:29:03.249 How many times has he hit you? 20 times? 30 times? 0:29:03.249,0:29:08.315 One time per year? You see this is not beating. 0:29:08.315,0:29:11.182 Sometimes people get angry. Has he pushed you? 0:29:11.182,0:29:13.582 Do you have any more questions, sister? The sheikh has to go. 0:29:13.582,0:29:16.849 God keep you. 0:29:16.849,0:29:23.398 Afterwards he says that the advice not to go to the police had to do with her husband marrying another. 0:29:23.398,0:29:27.382 He also says that he doesn't want to belittle violence. 0:29:27.382,0:29:35.049 But that a light joking slap on the backside is not beating. 0:29:35.049,0:29:40.849 When we say that we would make him anonymous, since he was only a member in the community, he protests 0:29:40.849,0:29:45.182 and asks to be identified by name. 0:29:45.182,0:29:48.982 The mosque distances itself from his statement. 0:29:48.982,0:29:53.654 This stems from a patriarchal tradition. It is not allowed. 0:29:53.654,0:29:58.582 It should not be allowed, for a woman to endure this kind of humiliation. 0:30:06.515,0:30:16.688 Saudia Arabia is a country where gender separation is the system and laws from the middle ages guide women's lives. 0:30:16.688,0:30:23.538 Wahabism, as the state religion is called, allows no new interpretations of the Quran. 0:30:23.538,0:30:28.275 Those who leave Islam can be punished by death. 0:30:28.275,0:30:32.382 Saudi Arabia and Saudi businessmen and princes 0:30:32.382,0:30:39.715 spread in different ways these ultra-orthodox interpretative traditions through the world. 0:30:39.715,0:30:42.950 Among other things through handing out stipends 0:30:42.950,0:30:47.382 and educate imams who then work in other countries. 0:30:53.305,0:31:00.365 When the women come to the fifth mosque, Uppsala 0:31:00.365,0:31:09.382 they are greeted by a man who was educated in the Islamic university in Medina in Saudi Arabia. 0:31:09.382,0:31:18.383 He tells Akhdar, who he knows has been mistreated by her husband, to go one step further in humiliation. 0:31:18.383,0:31:24.715 Her neighbor told her, "if he hits you again, 0:31:24.715,0:31:27.462 you have to ring the police!" 0:31:27.462,0:31:34.982 That's why he is angry. He thinks she says bad things. 0:31:34.982,0:31:37.215 But I think you can go to your husband and say 0:31:37.215,0:31:40.982 "I'm sorry if I have made a mistake, let's start over." 0:31:40.982,0:31:43.449 I should apologize. 0:31:43.449,0:31:45.649 "We will forget what has is past!" 0:31:45.649,0:31:54.537 There is a very nice hadith, "the real woman, when her husband is angry, holds his hands and 0:31:54.537,0:31:59.715 says, I cannot sleep till you are pleased with me." 0:31:59.715,0:32:02.115 Do you think God will forgive? 0:32:02.115,0:32:06.382 Yes, God willing. You have to struggle. 0:32:06.382,0:32:09.189 God willing, your husband will accept. 0:32:09.189,0:32:12.249 I will apologize and hope that God helps me. 0:32:12.249,0:32:17.382 That I should cleanse my heart and not be jealous. 0:32:17.382,0:32:19.940 I won't ring the police. 0:32:19.940,0:32:23.449 No, don't ring the police. 0:32:23.449,0:32:25.860 God helps us. 0:32:36.263,0:32:40.982 It was also Saudi Arabia which gave Gothenburg's Muslims 0:32:40.982,0:32:50.982 their own real mosque. Those who took the 6 million said that the money was not tied to any conditions. 0:32:50.982,0:33:00.849 Now the mosque has an imam who is educated in Great Britain and in Saudi Arabia. 0:33:00.849,0:33:05.056 There is no difference between sexes. 0:33:05.056,0:33:10.782 Of course, in front of God they have the same rights and same responsibilities. 0:33:10.782,0:33:13.915 Is it misunderstandings then? 0:33:13.915,0:33:16.382 If some think that a man can marry several? 0:33:16.382,0:33:17.688 Yes. 0:33:17.688,0:33:30.649 All this with woman's oppression. I think a lot of this is myth and it is the spreading of propaganda against Islam. 0:33:30.649,0:33:37.582 He agrees that the woman herself has the right to decide over her body but says that both the man and the woman 0:33:37.582,0:33:41.249 have to listen to each other. 0:33:41.249,0:33:45.226 It says, they should listen to their husband. How long? 0:33:45.226,0:33:52.249 There are limits. He can't request something from her God has forbidden. 0:33:52.249,0:33:58.555 Or something which is harmful for her. Or violates her personhood. 0:33:58.555,0:34:01.744 He absolutely can't do that. 0:34:06.182,0:34:09.782 Now the women will find out what the imam says when he does not know 0:34:09.782,0:34:12.182 that a camera is on. 0:34:12.182,0:34:13.782 How would it be now? 0:34:13.782,0:34:18.253 Can a man take another wife? 0:34:28.920,0:34:33.408 She doesn't want to do anything that is haram. 0:34:33.408,0:34:36.334 No, I understand, I understand. 0:34:36.334,0:34:42.162 I think if you have a real reason 0:34:42.162,0:34:46.782 you can demand an explanation. 0:34:46.782,0:35:01.849 You can't demand that he should divorce the other woman. If he has done it the right way you can't demand that. 0:35:01.849,0:35:08.249 Akhdar must now for the seventh time hear that she must share her husband with another woman. 0:35:08.249,0:35:12.998 And she should not turn a few slaps into a big deal. 0:35:12.998,0:35:22.495 I think if you are scared for your life...but he is not like that, is he, your husband? No, no. 0:35:22.495,0:35:29.252 So I don't think she needs to ring the police, since she says it is not serious. 0:35:29.252,0:35:34.515 He just hits me like this since I would not love him. 0:35:34.515,0:35:43.515 This is something which can be solved within the family so I don't think it is serious. 0:35:43.515,0:35:49.082 What about love in bed? 0:35:49.082,0:35:53.586 Can you ring me? 0:35:53.586,0:35:59.182 The last question which they are to talk about over the phone is about sex. 0:35:59.182,0:36:05.916 The imam had said that a man cannot violate a woman's personhood. 0:36:05.916,0:36:10.258 But what will he say to Akhdar? 0:36:10.258,0:36:18.249 Can the man who hit her and who married another still have a right to her body? 0:36:18.249,0:36:23.515 I have read a few books about this 0:36:23.515,0:36:31.782 and there are two ways a woman can say No. 0:36:31.782,0:36:37.915 When she is ill she can say no, and there is nothing wrong with that. 0:36:37.915,0:36:43.672 And the second way is when she has her period. 0:36:43.672,0:36:51.427 These are the two times you can say no. 0:36:51.427,0:36:55.982 When we revealed our hidden recording, the imam says that he meant that both the man and the woman 0:36:55.982,0:37:03.362 should fulfill each other's sexual needs if there is no obstacle such as sickness or menstruation, 0:37:03.362,0:37:08.982 and that family conflicts should first be resolved within the family and authorities should only be involved 0:37:08.982,0:37:11.930 in serious cases. 0:37:14.090,0:37:21.515 I think that people have come into contact with ideas of equality and this relationship between men 0:37:21.515,0:37:32.782 and women, and that there is a large population that does not want this type of "Imam." 0:37:32.782,0:37:39.609 Yes, this is good. Equal rights. That purple one. 0:37:39.609,0:37:43.049 And there is opposition among Muslims. 0:37:43.049,0:37:46.342 Azam and the others at the Women's Network 0:37:46.342,0:37:49.756 have gone to Tensta to demonstrate on International Women's Day. 0:37:49.756,0:37:53.262 "We don't accept that our daughters and sisters should 0:37:53.262,0:37:56.606 be mistreated and murdered for having a boyfriend, 0:37:56.606,0:38:08.982 or are no longer virgins. We want our children to grow up to be equal individuals." 0:38:11.690,0:38:24.261 And in January, Rinkeby's people's house was full of deeply religious Somali Sufis, who protested by celebrating Mawlid 0:38:24.261,0:38:36.428 Mohammad's birthday, which is as forbidden among the ultra-orthodox Muslims as Christmas is for Jehova's Witnesses. 0:38:36.428,0:38:45.249 They call themselves Muslims and say they have the same prophet as we do. 0:38:45.249,0:38:47.597 But they have interpreted everything falsely. 0:38:47.597,0:38:57.182 We think they are spreading false ideas and information especially to women and children. 0:38:57.182,0:39:02.523 In London, the Sufi's are called the quiet majority's voice. 0:39:02.523,0:39:07.790 They are known for their tolerance and they think religion should be a private thing, 0:39:07.790,0:39:15.678 as well as challenging the religious leaders who are spreading Saudi Arabia's ultra orthodox interpretations 0:39:15.678,0:39:20.590 of Islam. 0:39:20.590,0:39:26.723 Only we who are educated in religion but who don't share their beliefs can understand. 0:39:26.723,0:39:33.390 They use different methods to deal with different people. 0:39:33.390,0:39:35.257 How do you mean? 0:39:35.257,0:39:41.011 When they meet with Swedish authorities they say what they think they want to hear. 0:39:41.011,0:39:49.400 It is the same in Britain and Arab countries. 0:39:53.862,0:39:58.867 We end our journey with those we rang first. 0:39:58.867,0:40:02.733 The Islamic Cultural Centre in Rinkeby. 0:40:02.733,0:40:06.067 It took a while for the women to get an appointment with the imam. 0:40:06.067,0:40:13.645 But now he is waiting for them, one late Friday night in Rinkeby Square. 0:40:13.645,0:40:24.867 We have also heard that it is here that the most hardline interpretations of the Quran are spread. 0:40:24.867,0:40:28.467 I say that when we speak about religion 0:40:28.467,0:40:31.133 we have to talk about everything. 0:40:31.133,0:40:40.400 If I am going to lie with her one night, then I lie with the other the second night, if she is there. 0:40:40.400,0:40:45.224 It has to be equal. 0:40:45.224,0:40:50.067 Just as the other imams, he says her husband under certain circumstances has the right to marry 0:40:50.067,0:40:52.631 with several women. 0:40:52.631,0:40:59.133 But when he finds out that the man hits her, 0:40:59.133,0:41:01.000 the women get a reply they have not heard before. 0:41:01.000,0:41:04.467 If he does this, she has the right to report him to the police. 0:41:04.467,0:41:07.051 This is the most important thing. 0:41:07.051,0:41:10.267 Will he go to prison? 0:41:10.267,0:41:12.733 It doesn't matter. 0:41:12.733,0:41:18.733 I think the last word is that you have to report him to the police. 0:41:18.733,0:41:28.769 Everything he says, doesn't belong in the religion. Understood? 0:41:31.133,0:41:34.682 The result was the opposite of what we expected. 0:41:34.682,0:41:40.467 In the small mosque which has a reputation for hardline Islamism 0:41:40.467,0:41:49.775 we found the first Imam who says to Akhdar that she must report her husband to the police. 0:41:49.775,0:41:57.067 In the really big mosque, where the Swedish ministers go, 0:41:57.067,0:42:02.267 the woman is told to give total submission. 0:42:02.267,0:42:15.067 "Don't refuse to give love to him, maybe he will change." 0:42:15.067,0:42:21.067 We have now asked our questions to all 10 mosques. 0:42:21.067,0:42:22.539 We visited 7 of these. 0:42:22.539,0:42:24.443 The other 3 we phoned. 0:42:24.443,0:42:29.067 Now we know which interpretations of Islam they are spreading. 0:42:29.067,0:42:34.933 No mosque says that the Quran gives a man the right to beat his wife. 0:42:34.933,0:42:44.458 But according to one mosque, he has the right to do this (man demonstrates) 0:42:44.458,0:42:54.067 6 of the 10 say that a Muslim woman is obligated to have sex with her husband even against her will. 0:42:54.067,0:42:58.622 "She must accept, she must accept." 0:42:58.622,0:43:07.191 6 mosques say that the woman should not go to the police if the man hits her. 0:43:07.191,0:43:14.342 They think the problem should be resolved in the family, perhaps with the help of an imam. 0:43:14.342,0:43:21.285 "Not the police. You are Muslim and will have a lot of problems. They might take away your children." 0:43:21.285,0:43:28.733 In one mosque, there is a mixed statement, another gives us a weak answer. 0:43:28.733,0:43:37.121 Only 2 say that the woman should definitely report the mistreatment to the police. 0:43:37.121,0:43:46.200 In 9 mosques we were told that the man under certain circumstances could marry several women. 0:43:46.200,0:43:50.400 "He can marry another. It is not haram." 0:43:50.400,0:43:55.467 "It is allowed to have up to four wives." 0:43:55.467,0:44:03.619 Only one says the man can't do this and that one must follow Swedish law in Sweden. 0:44:07.867,0:44:16.758 How many of the 400,000 Muslims in Sweden do you think agree with these imams who say it should be resolved within the family, 0:44:16.758,0:44:21.267 and have sex against your will, and accept your husband marrying another? 0:44:21.267,0:44:33.533 It is difficult to say, but spontaneously I would say very few. Very few would go along with this kind of humiliation. 0:44:33.533,0:44:36.133 But these are the spokespeople for the whole group? 0:44:36.133,0:44:41.066 Yes. This is the problem. 0:44:48.467,0:44:55.959 You can go on our website and chat about the report with Nadia Yllner and Sanna Klinghoffer. 0:44:58.933,0:45:03.000 I am going to visit several of the mosques where we recorded secretly. 0:45:03.000,0:45:08.933 First, the most important in Sweden. Stockholm's mosque in Medborgarplatsen. 0:45:08.933,0:45:16.467 A spokesperson for the Islamic Association, Abdallah Saleh, will answer the questions. 0:45:16.467,0:45:19.533 The five o'clock prayer meeting has just ended. 0:45:19.533,0:45:23.667 We meet on the top floor. 0:45:23.667,0:45:34.600 The politics of this mosque and interpretation of Islam fits in perfectly with Swedish society and to Sweden. 0:45:34.600,0:45:41.800 Swedish society's basic values are democracy, equality, parity between man and woman. 0:45:41.800,0:45:45.000 Does this clash with what you teach? 0:45:45.000,0:45:50.467 I think everything you have mentioned is part of Islam. 0:45:50.467,0:45:52.819 We don't have any problems with them. 0:45:52.819,0:45:54.600 So men and women have equal rights? 0:45:54.600,0:45:59.067 They each have their roles and they complete each other. 0:45:59.067,0:46:04.661 But when it comes to rights, there is no difference. 0:46:04.661,0:46:06.333 No difference. 0:46:06.333,0:46:11.325 We follow Sweden's laws. Stockholm's mosque is in Stockholm, in Sweden 0:46:11.325,0:46:13.809 and it is under Swedish laws. 0:46:13.809,0:46:21.147 If a man mistreats and abuses his wife, should she report it to the police? 0:46:21.147,0:46:23.733 She? Of course. 0:46:23.733,0:46:29.000 That's how it is. That's what you say when you give advice to women? 0:46:29.000,0:46:34.000 If someone came to ask me that is what I would answer, of course. 0:46:34.000,0:46:42.800 I told Abdallah Saleh that two women had come to the mosque's family counselor, the imam Mahmud Adam 0:46:42.800,0:46:49.267 and after the woman had spoken about her husband having another wife, and that she had been given the 0:46:49.267,0:46:53.400 advice to accept this, since the man has the right to four wives. 0:46:53.400,0:47:07.494 They also said that the man had mistreated the woman, and he replied that she should still not refuse him sex and not report it to the police. 0:47:07.494,0:47:12.904 I think it is an individual question, for each person. God created us free. 0:47:12.904,0:47:22.000 Every person who is mistreated by another, it is she or he who decides what they should do. 0:47:22.000,0:47:28.400 They should not wait for an imam or minister to tell them what to do. 0:47:28.400,0:47:33.245 So you should not have said this? That she should not report it to the police? 0:47:33.245,0:47:36.067 And that she should have sex with the one who had mistreated her? 0:47:36.067,0:47:38.600 No, I don't know. This should not have happened. 0:47:38.600,0:47:40.867 It should not have happened, you say. 0:47:40.867,0:47:43.485 Now that I am here, could I ask him do you think? 0:47:43.485,0:47:47.267 Yes, if he accepts and he is here. 0:47:47.267,0:47:55.400 Abdallah Salah goes down and talks to the imam who met the women 0:47:55.400,0:48:04.800 No, but you can talk to him after five minutes on the phone. 0:48:04.800,0:48:12.231 Words against words. 0:48:12.231,0:48:18.895 Now they don't know that we have filmed the meeting between the women and the imam. 0:48:18.895,0:48:28.648 OK, good, but you never told her that, just to clarify, you never told her not to report him to the police? 0:48:28.648,0:48:33.102 Okay, thank you. 0:48:33.102,0:48:35.667 So you trust him? 0:48:35.667,0:48:43.415 I trust him, until proven otherwise. 0:48:51.933,0:48:57.417 Here we have this meeting filmed. 0:48:57.417,0:49:05.400 You can listen yourself and see for yourself, this meeting here in your mosque. 0:49:05.400,0:49:17.400 "It can be a little difficult. Do you know why? The police will take him into custody. 0:49:17.400,0:49:29.000 and he will be given 2 or 3 years in prison." 0:49:29.000,0:49:31.267 What do you say? 0:49:31.267,0:49:37.495 Well, he doesn't say clearly to her that you should not report him. 0:49:37.495,0:49:40.067 He advices her. 0:49:40.067,0:49:47.067 Yes. Well not really, but I judge this to be misconduct in service, nothing else. He cannot do this. 0:49:47.067,0:49:51.334 He cannot. 0:49:51.334,0:49:53.533 How serious do you think it is? 0:49:53.533,0:50:01.133 I think it is very serious. I have to call him in or contact the management to call him in for a conversation. 0:50:01.133,0:50:08.067 This is what one finds, for these two women who came here, this is the reality. 0:50:08.067,0:50:11.675 One couldn't trust you when it comes to these questions. 0:50:11.675,0:50:16.667 No, wait a bit, you have come here to show what? What is it you want to say? 0:50:16.667,0:50:17.828 But this is what the women have... 0:50:17.828,0:50:24.237 No but remember that he did not tell her do not report him. 0:50:24.237,0:50:38.267 He tried to...our role here is to try to keep people together. But the way he did it, if she understood 0:50:38.267,0:50:41.200 that she should not report this, I said that it was misconduct. 0:50:41.200,0:50:42.255 If she understood? It is clear, he... 0:50:42.255,0:50:48.400 Then it is misconduct. It has to do with an individual's judgement and nothing else. 0:50:48.400,0:50:58.672 We don't have this as a policy. We are very clear about this. In the routine, you can talk for five minutes 0:50:58.672,0:51:06.600 or one hour, but what he has done is unacceptable for me as someone responsible or someone in 0:51:06.600,0:51:07.820 the management. 0:51:07.820,0:51:12.333 Is he a total exception do you think? He has nothing to do with your viewpoints? 0:51:12.333,0:51:13.933 No, no. 0:51:13.933,0:51:15.600 Why does he say this then? 0:51:15.600,0:51:23.467 You can ask him. But for me, as an institution, as a mosque, everything that has happened here should not happen. 0:51:23.467,0:51:26.267 Ring him up and tell him you watched this then. 0:51:26.267,0:51:40.400 Abdallah ringer Mahmud Adam and we agree to return the next day at 9 o'clock for an interview. 0:51:40.400,0:51:49.400 I would like you to watch it and express yourself. 0:51:49.400,0:51:55.867 Before this, we had time to visit Uppsala mosque, where the family counselor Abdul Waddud told 0:51:55.867,0:52:03.267 the mistreated woman in niqab to ask pardon of her husband because she had made him angry. 0:52:03.267,0:52:10.305 I am meeting Khalid Chowdery who is chairman of the Islamic Association in Uppsala. 0:52:10.305,0:52:16.400 I asked him the same questions as in Stockholm and got the same answers. Here we follow Swedish laws 0:52:16.400,0:52:18.800 and Swedish values. 0:52:18.800,0:52:24.133 I speak about family counselor Waddud and his meeting with the two women. 0:52:24.133,0:52:37.467 About three times, he is told that, of the two women that came in, one was mistreated 0:52:37.467,0:52:51.667 by her husband, who has several wives. We have recorded this meeting when the two women visited. They are wearing niqab. 0:52:51.667,0:52:53.133 I will play it for you, is that okay? 0:52:53.133,0:53:02.968 "I will apologize, and hope God helps me. That I should cleanse my heart and not be jealous." 0:53:02.968,0:53:05.638 I won't ring the police. 0:53:05.638,0:53:08.634 No you shouldn't ring the police. 0:53:08.634,0:53:11.304 God helps us. 0:53:11.304,0:53:18.067 "No you should not ring the police" - crystal clear. 0:53:18.067,0:53:26.467 He is personally responsible. It is not our mosque or association. 0:53:26.467,0:53:34.318 The woman who was mistreated should ask pardon, he said. 0:53:42.419,0:53:57.512 We follow Swedish law. It depends on her, there is a law there to protect her. 0:53:57.512,0:54:01.267 Yes, but he tells her not to go to the police. 0:54:01.267,0:54:03.400 Yes but that is his responsibility. 0:54:03.400,0:54:08.681 What kind of viewpoint on women is this? What kind of viewpoint on humans? 0:54:08.681,0:54:11.267 That a man has a right to four wives? 0:54:11.267,0:54:14.161 That is not legal. 0:54:14.161,0:54:18.867 It is not legal in Sweden, in Swedish law. 0:54:18.867,0:54:21.267 Yes, but this is Sweden where this is happening. 0:54:21.267,0:54:24.067 Yes, and that is what we also believe. 0:54:24.067,0:54:27.267 We accept this also. We don't have four wives. 0:54:27.267,0:54:42.067 She can go to the police if she wants or she can forgive him if she wants. It depends on her. 0:54:42.067,0:54:51.467 He is also a person who has studied Islam and he has his own understanding. He is not speaking for Uppsala mosque. 0:54:54.929,0:54:58.133 It is his private understanding? 0:54:58.133,0:55:00.624 Perhaps. 0:55:00.624,0:55:06.034 I phone Abdul Waddud, the family counselor in the secret recording. 0:55:06.034,0:55:10.733 He doesn't want to meet me or see the material. 0:55:10.733,0:55:13.504 Should the woman ask for pardon when a man hits her? 0:55:17.933,0:55:25.632 Back to the mosque in Stockholm where we were promised an interview with Mahmud Adam. 0:55:25.632,0:55:32.733 But the management has had a crisis meeting and decided that he is suspended until further investigation 0:55:32.733,0:55:35.400 and that he is forbidden from talking to media. 0:55:35.400,0:55:38.704 But we want to speak to him. 0:55:38.704,0:55:45.740 I am here to take responsibility, and we have decided the employees under investigation should not speak. 0:55:45.740,0:55:50.467 Why not? Why can't he speak with us? That would be the best way to investigate. 0:55:50.467,0:55:59.649 Yes, that's right. That's why I met you yesterday and I am here today to listen to you and we are very 0:55:59.649,0:56:06.638 grateful and we see this as very serious and will do this investigation and return to you. 0:56:06.638,0:56:12.333 Today you are not certain, despite hearing and seeing it, that he has done something wrong? 0:56:12.333,0:56:20.467 I heard Mahmud and heard you and it is not just me who is responsible. We will investigate and come back 0:56:20.467,0:56:22.533 with a response. Are you satisfied? 0:56:22.533,0:56:24.239 So you have changed your mind from yesterday? 0:56:24.239,0:56:31.200 I have not changed my mind. I have said we have a policy, we will compare everything Mahmud has done 0:56:31.200,0:56:36.467 with that policy. If it is wrong, we will call it misconduct and next time you will not need to use a 0:56:36.467,0:56:47.933 hidden camera, you can ring at any time and come at any time and film any activity you want to film. 0:56:47.933,0:56:49.267 We have nothing to hide. 0:56:49.267,0:56:52.567 Was it not a good thing we used a hidden camera, or we would have believed what you said? 0:56:52.567,0:56:56.133 We are very thankful you helped us to improve us as I said yesterday 0:56:56.133,0:57:00.533 And I am still thanking you for this. 0:57:00.533,0:57:03.793 Otherwise we would never have done an investigation 0:57:06.894,9:59:59.000 Here Mission: Investigation ends tonight. Next week...