0:00:05.189,0:00:07.293 Here's the first question. 0:00:07.293,0:00:09.135 "I have a question about giving. 0:00:09.135,0:00:10.949 I will use myself as an example, 0:00:10.949,0:00:13.155 but the question can [br]be taken more generally. 0:00:13.155,0:00:14.944 What is a good attitude to have 0:00:14.944,0:00:17.282 when it comes to giving? 0:00:17.282,0:00:18.952 When it comes to church, charity, 0:00:18.952,0:00:21.121 supporting ministry efforts, 0:00:21.121,0:00:23.164 or missions, etc., 0:00:23.164,0:00:26.257 but you also have debt? 0:00:26.257,0:00:32.733 We are about $400 behind on the rent. 0:00:32.733,0:00:35.726 And it will take months of small, 0:00:35.726,0:00:38.135 affordable payments here and there 0:00:38.135,0:00:40.916 to pay it off while staying afloat. 0:00:40.916,0:00:44.357 I recently became a Christian..." 0:00:44.357,0:00:46.653 You see these different factors here. 0:00:46.653,0:00:48.203 You see the kind of debt - 0:00:48.203,0:00:49.933 that's something that we might want 0:00:49.933,0:00:51.617 to give consideration to. 0:00:51.617,0:00:52.753 The kind of debt. 0:00:52.753,0:00:55.021 He's a brand new Christian. 0:00:55.021,0:00:56.694 A brand new Christian is probably 0:00:56.694,0:00:57.904 going to look different 0:00:57.904,0:00:58.810 than someone who is 0:00:58.810,0:01:00.262 more of a seasoned Christian, 0:01:00.262,0:01:02.269 or walked with the Lord longer anyway. 0:01:02.269,0:01:05.301 Because you recognize as I recognize, 0:01:05.301,0:01:06.804 when I first got saved, 0:01:06.804,0:01:08.765 I had a mess of debt. 0:01:08.765,0:01:13.127 The financial situation of [br]lots of lost people 0:01:13.127,0:01:14.561 is just a wreck. 0:01:14.561,0:01:16.060 And then you get saved, 0:01:16.060,0:01:18.230 and oh, now you have to start 0:01:18.230,0:01:22.507 putting pieces in place. 0:01:22.507,0:01:26.278 So, "...I recently became a Christian 0:01:26.278,0:01:27.867 and acknowledged truths 0:01:27.867,0:01:29.952 like not storing up treasure on earth, 0:01:29.952,0:01:32.103 not being anxious for tomorrow, 0:01:32.103,0:01:33.423 not idolizing your money 0:01:33.423,0:01:34.582 or trusting in riches, 0:01:34.582,0:01:36.779 trusting in God as a provider, etc. 0:01:36.779,0:01:40.276 And I do not think giving is optional. 0:01:40.276,0:01:42.072 Well, as a Christian, it is something 0:01:42.072,0:01:43.261 you want to practice. 0:01:43.261,0:01:44.631 You want to be able to give. 0:01:44.631,0:01:46.884 And I think there's a text 0:01:46.884,0:01:49.215 which says God provides or increases 0:01:49.215,0:01:52.150 in order that we may be able to give more. 0:01:52.150,0:01:54.202 So with these in mind, 0:01:54.202,0:01:55.742 what is a good attitude to have 0:01:55.742,0:01:58.571 considering your debts when giving. 0:01:58.571,0:02:00.706 Should you give a small amount? 0:02:00.706,0:02:03.586 Or does that show a lack of faith in God 0:02:03.586,0:02:05.499 to provide from His own hand? 0:02:05.499,0:02:09.197 Does that show more of a self-trust? 0:02:09.197,0:02:12.680 Or should you give [br]as you would like to give, 0:02:12.680,0:02:14.803 as if you did have the means, 0:02:14.803,0:02:19.032 trusting in Him for your [br]financial situation. 0:02:19.032,0:02:21.563 Or is that a lack of wisdom 0:02:21.563,0:02:22.997 and lack of stewardship 0:02:22.997,0:02:25.163 for your wife and kids? 0:02:25.163,0:02:29.472 I've heard you say that as a church 0:02:29.472,0:02:33.170 you have tried to intend to give more 0:02:33.170,0:02:36.919 than your abilities as a matter of faith. 0:02:36.919,0:02:38.847 Is this is wise or biblical concerning 0:02:38.847,0:02:42.063 your home and family as well? 0:02:42.063,0:02:44.495 Can you shed some light on the issue? 0:02:44.495,0:02:46.722 Thanks." 0:02:46.722,0:02:55.753 So, what principles do you think? 0:02:55.753,0:02:57.714 That guy came to you 0:02:57.714,0:03:02.348 and asked you about your thoughts on this. 0:03:02.348,0:03:08.562 What are your thoughts? 0:03:08.562,0:03:11.584 I mean, the Scriptures [br]speak a ton about money. 0:03:11.584,0:03:20.467 And so, what do you say? 0:03:20.467,0:03:23.738 And this is real. 0:03:23.738,0:03:26.234 I have had people come to me repeatedly 0:03:26.234,0:03:30.126 who say, I'm in debt, 0:03:30.126,0:03:32.379 I want to give, 0:03:32.379,0:03:34.468 where do I draw the line? 0:03:34.468,0:03:36.181 How do I balance that? 0:03:36.181,0:03:37.951 What do I do? 0:03:37.951,0:03:39.799 What's the best approach? 0:03:39.799,0:03:45.172 Should I, one, continue to give 0:03:45.172,0:03:47.769 generously? 0:03:47.769,0:03:49.995 And trust the Lord? 0:03:49.995,0:03:53.585 Or, should I basically put my giving, 0:03:53.585,0:03:55.322 either totally on hold 0:03:55.322,0:03:59.129 or reduce it significantly 0:03:59.129,0:04:01.309 and attack this debt over here? 0:04:01.309,0:04:03.955 What is the most God honoring way? 0:04:03.955,0:04:05.646 That's really the issue here. 0:04:05.646,0:04:15.647 What is the most God honoring way? 0:04:15.647,0:04:18.307 What do you think? 0:04:18.307,0:04:20.295 Any thoughts? 0:04:20.295,0:04:21.516 (from the room) 0:04:21.516,0:04:24.621 Would it be to pay off the debt first, 0:04:24.621,0:04:27.142 and then to be freed from that debt, 0:04:27.142,0:04:28.410 so you wouldn't be 0:04:28.410,0:04:30.773 like a slave to the lender? 0:04:30.773,0:04:33.156 Tim: OK, now there's a verse coming up 0:04:33.156,0:04:34.426 right there. 0:04:34.426,0:04:36.090 A slave to the lender. 0:04:36.090,0:04:40.093 The borrower is servant or a slave 0:04:40.093,0:04:42.068 to the lender. 0:04:42.068,0:04:43.625 OK. 0:04:43.625,0:04:46.551 Now that's a reality. 0:04:46.551,0:04:48.059 You know, one of the things 0:04:48.059,0:04:51.706 that could come up in [br]a conversation like this 0:04:51.706,0:04:54.171 is whether debt is even permissible 0:04:54.171,0:04:55.492 to the Christian. 0:04:55.492,0:04:58.676 But, if you get saved and [br]you already have debt, 0:04:58.676,0:05:00.217 and you don't have the ability 0:05:00.217,0:05:02.046 to pay it off immediately, 0:05:02.046,0:05:04.292 you're obviously in a situation 0:05:04.292,0:05:05.772 that you have to deal with. 0:05:05.772,0:05:07.639 Whatever your convictions are 0:05:07.639,0:05:09.498 concerning whether a Christian ought 0:05:09.498,0:05:11.196 to get further in debt, 0:05:11.196,0:05:12.988 or whether it's permissible [br]for a Christian 0:05:12.988,0:05:15.495 to take out wise debt? 0:05:15.495,0:05:17.508 Or a business loan? 0:05:17.508,0:05:20.631 Or what exactly is forbidden in Scripture? 0:05:20.631,0:05:22.707 What is permitted in Scripture? 0:05:22.707,0:05:25.420 Some people would go to Romans 0:05:25.420,0:05:28.634 and basically say, 0:05:28.634,0:05:32.408 well, owe no man anything, 0:05:32.408,0:05:34.687 except love. 0:05:34.687,0:05:37.741 And so, if I'm not to owe any man anything 0:05:37.741,0:05:45.355 then I'm not supposed to borrow money. 0:05:45.355,0:05:48.610 Which Mueller basically took that approach 0:05:48.610,0:05:50.649 and interpreted that passage that way. 0:05:50.649,0:05:52.340 And I believe Hudson Taylor, 0:05:52.340,0:05:54.365 kind of following Mueller's lead, 0:05:54.365,0:05:58.661 was minded that way as well. 0:05:58.661,0:06:02.111 I honestly - although those two men 0:06:02.111,0:06:07.047 have been really significant [br]in my own life 0:06:07.047,0:06:08.455 as far as debt 0:06:08.455,0:06:10.327 and as far as trusting God, 0:06:10.327,0:06:16.044 I don't believe that they're exactly 0:06:16.044,0:06:18.195 dealing with that text in Romans 13 0:06:18.195,0:06:22.488 exactly right. 0:06:22.488,0:06:25.508 But, I think that you could 0:06:25.508,0:06:29.408 make a case for the fact - 0:06:29.408,0:06:33.524 I would say from a stewardship standpoint, 0:06:33.524,0:06:36.177 if I'm faced with a situation 0:06:36.177,0:06:39.256 where I can take out a mortgage 0:06:39.256,0:06:41.150 for a house, 0:06:41.150,0:06:44.358 and be actually paying for the house, 0:06:44.358,0:06:47.947 and it would cost me [br]just the same to rent, 0:06:47.947,0:06:52.213 but fifteen years down the road, 0:06:52.213,0:06:56.610 the house is paid for, 0:06:56.610,0:06:58.904 if I'm on a fifteen year mortgage. 0:06:58.904,0:07:03.865 And if I'm renting, I [br]have to go on renting. 0:07:03.865,0:07:06.508 To me, the stewardship there, 0:07:06.508,0:07:08.367 the wisdom is over here. 0:07:08.367,0:07:09.695 And the thing is, 0:07:09.695,0:07:14.673 it's not an unwise type of unsecured debt 0:07:14.673,0:07:16.459 like a student loan. 0:07:16.459,0:07:19.854 Student loans are horrible debt. 0:07:19.854,0:07:21.463 Horrible debt. 0:07:21.463,0:07:24.648 Because you've got no asset. 0:07:24.648,0:07:26.512 And so what happens if you 0:07:26.512,0:07:27.809 drop out of school 0:07:27.809,0:07:29.215 and you don't end up getting 0:07:29.215,0:07:30.971 a high paying job? 0:07:30.971,0:07:33.091 You're wracked with all this debt. 0:07:33.091,0:07:35.008 You've got nothing to show for it. 0:07:35.008,0:07:37.189 It's unsecured. 0:07:37.189,0:07:39.064 And it's just a mess. 0:07:39.064,0:07:41.225 I would never, never advise 0:07:41.225,0:07:42.749 people to take out that. 0:07:42.749,0:07:44.174 But as far as a mortgage, 0:07:44.174,0:07:45.278 you do have an asset. 0:07:45.278,0:07:46.916 You have the home. 0:07:46.916,0:07:49.158 If the bank has to foreclose, 0:07:49.158,0:07:51.788 they're able to repossess your home. 0:07:51.788,0:07:53.879 They at least have that asset 0:07:53.879,0:07:55.526 that you borrowed the money on. 0:07:55.526,0:07:57.530 And so even if you can't pay them back, 0:07:57.530,0:07:59.890 they get the house back. 0:07:59.890,0:08:01.982 You know my take - 0:08:01.982,0:08:04.440 I think loans on cars are 0:08:04.440,0:08:09.660 absolutely bad, bad stewardship. 0:08:09.660,0:08:16.061 But, anyway, that's my take. 0:08:16.061,0:08:16.815 (from the room) 0:08:16.815,0:08:18.401 So what about all the people here 0:08:18.401,0:08:20.065 who have student loans? 0:08:20.065,0:08:22.502 Tim: Well, here's the thing. 0:08:22.502,0:08:24.363 I had student loans. 0:08:24.363,0:08:26.543 I didn't need them for school. 0:08:26.543,0:08:29.243 I took them out to buy [br]cars and motorcycles. 0:08:29.243,0:08:31.603 But see, the thing was, I was lost. 0:08:31.603,0:08:35.591 And I think what we're doing is 0:08:35.591,0:08:37.227 we're dealing with a man here 0:08:37.227,0:08:38.885 much like many of us. 0:08:38.885,0:08:40.534 We wake up one day, 0:08:40.534,0:08:41.920 our eyes are opened, 0:08:41.920,0:08:43.610 God has saved us, 0:08:43.610,0:08:46.131 and now we look at our situation 0:08:46.131,0:08:49.446 and we recognize... Oh. 0:08:49.446,0:08:51.638 Scripture definitely has something to say 0:08:51.638,0:08:53.050 about debt. 0:08:53.050,0:08:55.656 The borrower is servant to the lender. 0:08:55.656,0:08:57.185 That doesn't necessarily mean 0:08:57.185,0:08:58.785 it's absolutely forbidden, 0:08:58.785,0:09:00.236 but that's a reality. 0:09:00.236,0:09:01.743 And that is a reality 0:09:01.743,0:09:04.045 that as long as you're in debt, 0:09:04.045,0:09:05.648 you don't have the freedom. 0:09:05.648,0:09:07.451 Why? Because you're a slave. 0:09:07.451,0:09:09.262 You don't have the freedom 0:09:09.262,0:09:11.137 that you would otherwise have. 0:09:11.137,0:09:13.264 Oh, there's nothing like [br]being out of debt. 0:09:13.264,0:09:14.775 Everything is paid for.[br] 0:09:14.775,0:09:18.753 Because there's a freedom in that. 0:09:18.753,0:09:23.087 But, OK, let's say it's desirable. 0:09:23.087,0:09:25.463 But does that undo the fact 0:09:25.463,0:09:28.151 that we have consistent commandments 0:09:28.151,0:09:33.495 in Scripture to give? 0:09:33.495,0:09:38.782 Anybody throw some verses out? 0:09:38.782,0:09:41.723 Or be able to quote some passages 0:09:41.723,0:09:54.009 that have to do with giving? 0:09:54.009,0:09:57.323 One of my favorites as a young believer 0:09:57.323,0:10:01.280 was the one found in Luke 6. 0:10:01.280,0:10:04.097 Give, and it shall be given to you, 0:10:04.097,0:10:05.422 pressed down, 0:10:05.422,0:10:08.523 shaken together, 0:10:08.523,0:10:09.876 and overflowing. 0:10:09.876,0:10:11.312 Now if you think about 0:10:11.312,0:10:13.916 putting something - 0:10:13.916,0:10:15.264 you know, you put gravel 0:10:15.264,0:10:17.857 or wheat or corn or whatever - 0:10:17.857,0:10:20.604 it's the idea that you put it in a basket 0:10:20.604,0:10:22.197 and you shake it. 0:10:22.197,0:10:24.265 When you shake it, it settles. 0:10:24.265,0:10:25.815 And it's not just shaken 0:10:25.815,0:10:27.342 so that there's no air 0:10:27.342,0:10:29.239 or the least amount of air in there. 0:10:29.239,0:10:33.604 But it's actually pressed down. 0:10:33.604,0:10:36.459 It's the idea you shake it together, 0:10:36.459,0:10:37.949 you press it down, 0:10:37.949,0:10:39.719 and then you just keep filling it 0:10:39.719,0:10:41.089 until it's overflowing. 0:10:41.089,0:10:42.991 That is a promise. 0:10:42.991,0:10:45.333 So here's the thing, 0:10:45.333,0:10:48.004 if I've got a promise in Scripture 0:10:48.004,0:10:50.811 that if I give, it's going [br]to be given to me 0:10:50.811,0:10:52.122 in abundance - 0:10:52.122,0:10:57.621 "Shall men give into your lap." 0:10:57.621,0:10:59.840 What's that mean? 0:10:59.840,0:11:01.133 Well, it means that God is 0:11:01.133,0:11:04.608 going to give you favor with people. 0:11:04.608,0:11:06.893 Now, even though I am not one 0:11:06.893,0:11:10.491 to advocate Old Testament tithing, 0:11:10.491,0:11:12.461 because I don't think the New Testament 0:11:12.461,0:11:13.796 does that. 0:11:13.796,0:11:16.655 But I am one to advocate the principle 0:11:16.655,0:11:18.616 behind the tithing. 0:11:18.616,0:11:20.672 Remember what God said to Israel? 0:11:20.672,0:11:24.940 He said, "test Me." 0:11:24.940,0:11:29.571 Here's the thing, if I'm in debt - 0:11:29.571,0:11:31.037 because I was here. 0:11:31.037,0:11:31.891 I was here. 0:11:31.891,0:11:33.151 When I first got saved, 0:11:33.151,0:11:34.535 I had that tension between, 0:11:34.535,0:11:36.155 OK, I'm in debt, 0:11:36.155,0:11:38.077 and I want to give. 0:11:38.077,0:11:39.807 And then I got out of debt. 0:11:39.807,0:11:41.343 But then I got back into debt 0:11:41.343,0:11:43.361 with this house. 0:11:43.361,0:11:44.820 And I wanted it paid off. 0:11:44.820,0:11:47.027 We paid it off in six years. 0:11:47.027,0:11:48.364 But let me tell you, 0:11:48.364,0:11:49.824 during that six years, 0:11:49.824,0:11:56.715 Ruby and I did not reduce our giving. 0:11:56.715,0:11:59.141 And the thing was, 0:11:59.141,0:12:02.937 I remember a time when we literally 0:12:02.937,0:12:05.329 could go around our house 0:12:05.329,0:12:09.109 and say that sofa - [br]so-and-so gave it to us. 0:12:09.109,0:12:11.474 That end table - so-and-so gave it to us. 0:12:11.474,0:12:12.716 That thing over there - 0:12:12.716,0:12:13.827 somebody gave us that. 0:12:13.827,0:12:14.884 That lamp over there. 0:12:14.884,0:12:16.370 These lamps right here. 0:12:16.370,0:12:17.616 These plants right here. 0:12:17.616,0:12:18.827 There was a time we could 0:12:18.827,0:12:20.676 basically go around [br]all of our stuff - 0:12:20.676,0:12:23.164 those bookshelves over there,[br]that dining room table, 0:12:23.164,0:12:25.098 those chairs there... 0:12:25.098,0:12:27.424 people gave all those things to us. 0:12:27.424,0:12:30.899 Or God brought them to us some way. 0:12:30.899,0:12:34.981 We had this GE refrigerator - 0:12:34.981,0:12:37.630 Sid was just talking about the fact 0:12:37.630,0:12:40.059 that Ruby and I were the first ones 0:12:40.059,0:12:41.649 to buy a mobile home from them. 0:12:41.649,0:12:43.137 Before we lived in this house, 0:12:43.137,0:12:44.268 we bought a mobile home 0:12:44.268,0:12:45.424 from Alamo Homes. 0:12:45.424,0:12:47.807 And I remember, 0:12:47.807,0:12:52.263 I got a free refrigerator thrown in - 0:12:52.263,0:12:54.459 GE refrigerator - 0:12:54.459,0:12:57.601 That thing lasted. 0:12:57.601,0:12:59.222 We brought it here. 0:12:59.222,0:13:01.320 It lasted a long time. 0:13:01.320,0:13:03.288 It just kept going and going 0:13:03.288,0:13:07.725 and going and going and going. 0:13:07.725,0:13:10.212 The thing I'm pointing at is this, 0:13:10.212,0:13:13.522 that I don't think it's either/or. 0:13:13.522,0:13:15.804 And with all the promises that are 0:13:15.804,0:13:17.330 attached to giving, 0:13:17.330,0:13:18.705 don't let the charismatics 0:13:18.705,0:13:21.646 and the health/wealth prosperity people 0:13:21.646,0:13:24.571 dull these promises 0:13:24.571,0:13:26.270 in your own mind. 0:13:26.270,0:13:28.610 God is faithful. 0:13:28.610,0:13:30.677 And you know, 0:13:30.677,0:13:32.442 there's the one that scatters 0:13:32.442,0:13:33.929 and he all the more increases. 0:13:33.929,0:13:35.660 And there's the one that holds back 0:13:35.660,0:13:37.336 what he shouldn't hold back, 0:13:37.336,0:13:39.535 and it only tends to poverty. 0:13:39.535,0:13:41.914 I love that proverb too. 0:13:41.914,0:13:43.805 Because I lived on those things. 0:13:43.805,0:13:46.827 I lived on the promises of Isaiah 58. 0:13:46.827,0:13:48.140 You're helping people 0:13:48.140,0:13:49.816 and you're giving to people. 0:13:49.816,0:13:52.265 And I think the thing that you want to do 0:13:52.265,0:13:54.502 if you're in the place like this guy, 0:13:54.502,0:13:56.714 is you want to do both. 0:13:56.714,0:14:00.042 It's not an either/or. 0:14:00.042,0:14:02.954 You want to test God - 0:14:02.954,0:14:07.349 you don't want to be foolish. 0:14:07.349,0:14:10.901 You want to do what you do prayerfully. 0:14:10.901,0:14:13.241 You don't want to just run [br]out and do something 0:14:13.241,0:14:14.630 because Mueller did it. 0:14:14.630,0:14:16.254 But you know what you want to do, 0:14:16.254,0:14:18.077 you want to study [br]the promises of God 0:14:18.077,0:14:19.617 and you want to act in faith. 0:14:19.617,0:14:20.820 Prayerfully act in faith. 0:14:20.820,0:14:22.926 And I'm not going to say that there's one 0:14:22.926,0:14:27.563 specific way to do it. 0:14:27.563,0:14:30.458 I remember, and I've [br]told this story before, 0:14:30.458,0:14:31.894 but it's always stuck with me. 0:14:31.894,0:14:33.914 My pastor out at Community Baptist Church, 0:14:33.914,0:14:35.541 Pat Horner, 0:14:35.541,0:14:39.427 drove over to Houston to a conference. 0:14:39.427,0:14:41.482 He got into Houston, 0:14:41.482,0:14:45.262 his car was on E (empty), 0:14:45.262,0:14:47.113 going to this conference. 0:14:47.113,0:14:50.234 He's got $20 in his pocket. 0:14:50.234,0:14:53.835 And that's his gas money to get home. 0:14:53.835,0:14:56.791 And went he sat in this meeting, 0:14:56.791,0:14:58.453 at the end of the meeting, 0:14:58.453,0:15:00.096 they have a missionary go up 0:15:00.096,0:15:03.829 and the pastor says this brother so-and-so 0:15:03.829,0:15:06.759 is trying to get to [br]whatever country it was, 0:15:06.759,0:15:08.953 and they brought out one of those 5 gallon 0:15:08.953,0:15:11.077 paint buckets and they set it down there 0:15:11.077,0:15:15.092 and said can we help send this guy? 0:15:15.092,0:15:16.308 Pat just felt led. 0:15:16.308,0:15:18.155 He took the $20 out 0:15:18.155,0:15:19.397 and he threw it in there. 0:15:19.397,0:15:20.916 How was he going to get home? 0:15:20.916,0:15:23.143 You see, he did that by faith. 0:15:23.143,0:15:25.559 He did that by faith - it wasn't foolish. 0:15:25.559,0:15:27.696 He felt led of the Lord to do it. 0:15:27.696,0:15:30.937 He recognized that he wasn't 0:15:30.937,0:15:34.711 going to be able to get back. 0:15:34.711,0:15:36.827 And he said he threw the money in there, 0:15:36.827,0:15:37.952 the service is over, 0:15:37.952,0:15:39.869 and he said he was going down the aisle 0:15:39.869,0:15:41.247 of the church building 0:15:41.247,0:15:42.885 headed out the back door. 0:15:42.885,0:15:48.303 He said a man that he [br]had never met in his life 0:15:48.303,0:15:50.229 came up to him, 0:15:50.229,0:15:54.736 and put his hand on his 0:15:54.736,0:15:57.579 and pressed $20 into it. 0:15:57.579,0:16:01.611 And he told him, 0:16:01.611,0:16:04.786 I have no idea why I'm giving this to you. 0:16:04.786,0:16:08.915 The Lord just impressed it upon me. 0:16:08.915,0:16:14.903 And you know, when the Lord does 0:16:14.903,0:16:17.015 that kind of thing to you, 0:16:17.015,0:16:23.160 that's amazing. 0:16:23.160,0:16:27.156 You want that to happen more. 0:16:27.156,0:16:28.959 Charles Leiter tells me 0:16:28.959,0:16:32.547 about Keith McCloud. 0:16:32.547,0:16:36.396 This brother would get himself into places 0:16:36.396,0:16:40.643 where he wouldn't have gas. 0:16:40.643,0:16:44.454 And he would drive all the way home 0:16:44.454,0:16:48.374 on E (empty). 0:16:48.374,0:16:52.721 We're talking hundreds of miles on E. 0:16:52.721,0:16:56.907 And he just prayed the whole time. 0:16:56.907,0:16:59.526 So, what's that? 0:16:59.526,0:17:03.801 And Hudson Taylor, 0:17:03.801,0:17:09.022 you probably know the story 0:17:09.022,0:17:11.329 or you've heard somebody say it before, 0:17:11.329,0:17:14.355 but he had a thousand missionaries 0:17:14.355,0:17:16.088 in the China Inland Mission. 0:17:16.088,0:17:18.063 But more than that, 0:17:18.063,0:17:20.910 and he didn't have money to pay them. 0:17:20.910,0:17:22.363 Many of them had wives, 0:17:22.363,0:17:23.775 they had children. 0:17:23.775,0:17:25.044 He didn't have any money. 0:17:25.044,0:17:26.790 And one of the other missionaries 0:17:26.790,0:17:29.828 saw him in his office just whistling. 0:17:29.828,0:17:35.359 He loved that song that John Sytsma loves. 0:17:35.359,0:17:38.400 Jesus, I am resting, resting... 0:17:38.400,0:17:40.866 And he was whistling that song, 0:17:40.866,0:17:42.468 and one of the missionaries 0:17:42.468,0:17:44.242 was watching him and thought, 0:17:44.242,0:17:46.263 are you for real? 0:17:46.263,0:17:48.861 You've got all these [br]missionaries at your care 0:17:48.861,0:17:52.079 and no money's coming in. 0:17:52.079,0:17:54.329 He said I've got a quarter in my pocket 0:17:54.329,0:17:56.798 and all the promises of God. 0:17:56.798,0:17:58.345 You see, that's the thing. 0:17:58.345,0:18:01.440 If you've got promises that 0:18:01.440,0:18:04.890 if you scatter, you increase. 0:18:04.890,0:18:08.267 If you hold back, it tends to poverty. 0:18:08.267,0:18:11.579 Well, I can tell you which one is smart. 0:18:11.579,0:18:16.824 (incomplete thought) 0:18:16.824,0:18:18.291 It's kind of like the farmer. 0:18:18.291,0:18:21.169 You know, if the farmer [br] 0:18:21.169,0:18:23.855 throws a lot out there, 0:18:23.855,0:18:26.548 prospect for a good harvest. 0:18:26.548,0:18:28.656 If he's really stingy in what he throws, 0:18:28.656,0:18:30.413 he just throws a couple seeds, 0:18:30.413,0:18:34.355 he just gets a couple stalks of wheat. 0:18:34.355,0:18:37.376 All because he needs to hoard it. 0:18:37.376,0:18:39.250 Gotta keep it. 0:18:39.250,0:18:42.469 But see, that's the very [br]principle of Scripture 0:18:42.469,0:18:45.717 that we should scatter. 0:18:45.717,0:18:49.078 Now, there's different kinds of debt. 0:18:49.078,0:18:50.548 You know, it's one thing 0:18:50.548,0:18:52.591 when I'm living in this house 0:18:52.591,0:18:55.043 and I had a 20 year mortgage 0:18:55.043,0:18:59.664 and I wanted to pay it off fast. 0:18:59.664,0:19:01.856 That's different than 0:19:01.856,0:19:07.147 he's $400 behind right now. 0:19:07.147,0:19:11.595 So, that's kind of a different situation. 0:19:11.595,0:19:15.810 He's in a position where 0:19:15.810,0:19:19.586 he owes somebody money 0:19:19.586,0:19:22.552 and it's past due. 0:19:22.552,0:19:24.096 It's one thing to have debt 0:19:24.096,0:19:25.234 where you owe people, 0:19:25.234,0:19:27.223 but you're making your payments on time. 0:19:27.223,0:19:29.970 It's another thing when you're behind. 0:19:29.970,0:19:31.923 And I would make that a real priority. 0:19:31.923,0:19:33.486 But see, I don't think that 0:19:33.486,0:19:37.372 the only things in the equation 0:19:37.372,0:19:41.086 are whether you give to the Lord 0:19:41.086,0:19:44.428 or whether you pay your debt. 0:19:44.428,0:19:45.988 The reason I'm saying that 0:19:45.988,0:19:51.301 is because there's more money in our lives 0:19:51.301,0:19:53.953 than just what we pay debt with 0:19:53.953,0:19:56.891 and what we give with. 0:19:56.891,0:19:58.349 He's got other bills. 0:19:58.349,0:19:59.729 He's got mouths to feed. 0:19:59.729,0:20:01.268 He talked about having children. 0:20:01.268,0:20:04.200 There's other things happening. 0:20:04.200,0:20:08.727 There's gasoline that's being used. 0:20:08.727,0:20:11.598 So what I would say to somebody 0:20:11.598,0:20:16.060 is all the other money, 0:20:16.060,0:20:18.359 there needs to be some real discipline. 0:20:18.359,0:20:22.623 There needs to be some real sacrifice. 0:20:22.623,0:20:24.743 You know, you can get this tension 0:20:24.743,0:20:25.995 where you're feeling like, 0:20:25.995,0:20:27.598 oh, well I've got debt over here, 0:20:27.598,0:20:29.372 but I also want to be able to give. 0:20:29.372,0:20:31.438 But I think you need to give consideration 0:20:31.438,0:20:32.657 to all the other money 0:20:32.657,0:20:35.166 that's being used in your life. 0:20:35.166,0:20:38.411 Like, if you're in that kind of situation, 0:20:38.411,0:20:41.004 you would not be going out to eat. 0:20:41.004,0:20:43.513 You would not be going to a movie. 0:20:43.513,0:20:45.964 You would not be taking a vacation. 0:20:45.964,0:20:49.330 You would not be using gas 0:20:49.330,0:20:52.299 for things that are unnecessary. 0:20:52.299,0:20:54.857 You basically have to make sacrifices. 0:20:54.857,0:20:59.272 (Incomplete thought) 0:20:59.272,0:21:02.029 Brethren, we had a family 0:21:02.029,0:21:04.634 in the church years ago 0:21:04.634,0:21:07.447 who came to our deacons 0:21:07.447,0:21:10.096 because he couldn't make 0:21:10.096,0:21:15.077 his mortgage payment. 0:21:15.077,0:21:17.605 And a week before that, 0:21:17.605,0:21:20.345 he took his wife to Dallas 0:21:20.345,0:21:28.996 for their anniversary. 0:21:28.996,0:21:32.736 See, and I don't know [br]what the situation is here, 0:21:32.736,0:21:34.279 but I'll tell you this, 0:21:34.279,0:21:36.156 if you're $400 behind, 0:21:36.156,0:21:45.711 I would give in very reserved fashion. 0:21:45.711,0:21:47.823 I would not give liberally 0:21:47.823,0:21:49.482 because I don't think it's right 0:21:49.482,0:21:51.453 for you to go taking a bunch of money 0:21:51.453,0:21:53.011 and putting it in the church box 0:21:53.011,0:21:55.616 when you've got somebody out there 0:21:55.616,0:21:59.119 that you owe money to. 0:21:59.119,0:22:01.014 If I was in his place, 0:22:01.014,0:22:04.493 I would give 0:22:04.493,0:22:11.049 and I would eat rice and beans. 0:22:11.049,0:22:13.441 If you've got to turn the A/C off 0:22:13.441,0:22:16.688 or put it at 82. 0:22:16.688,0:22:18.413 We're not buying clothes. 0:22:18.413,0:22:19.679 We're not buying new shoes 0:22:19.679,0:22:22.404 for the children when school starts. 0:22:22.404,0:22:24.169 None of that. 0:22:24.169,0:22:25.791 You're not doing that. 0:22:25.791,0:22:27.821 You've got to make sacrifices. 0:22:27.821,0:22:32.234 But the other thing is income. 0:22:32.234,0:22:33.740 You know, a man can work 0:22:33.740,0:22:36.212 more than one job. 0:22:36.212,0:22:38.361 My brother-in-law, I remember, 0:22:38.361,0:22:40.305 when we were starting a family, 0:22:40.305,0:22:42.347 my brother-in-law Rick had a family. 0:22:42.347,0:22:43.870 He had three jobs. 0:22:43.870,0:22:46.965 I remember it was rare that [br]we would see him home, 0:22:46.965,0:22:48.718 because he'd get up in the morning, 0:22:48.718,0:22:49.931 he'd go to one job, 0:22:49.931,0:22:50.783 he'd get off, 0:22:50.783,0:22:52.251 he'd go to another job, 0:22:52.251,0:22:54.397 he'd be coming in like at midnight 0:22:54.397,0:22:56.159 from the 3rd job. 0:22:56.159,0:22:58.948 Look, if you've got to work three jobs... 0:22:58.948,0:23:01.503 Work is the way out of debt. 0:23:01.503,0:23:03.890 Work is the way out [br]of difficulties like this. 0:23:03.890,0:23:05.606 Work and sacrifice. 0:23:05.606,0:23:12.921 You can't live like the Joneses. 0:23:12.921,0:23:17.726 Any other thoughts? 0:23:17.726,0:23:20.265 (from the room) 0:23:20.265,0:23:22.363 Do you think it would be wrong 0:23:22.363,0:23:25.846 as far as how you would define giving - 0:23:25.846,0:23:27.778 we could always think of giving 0:23:27.778,0:23:30.363 as a monetary value. 0:23:30.363,0:23:32.522 Would it be right for this guy, 0:23:32.522,0:23:34.101 like I might not be able to give 0:23:34.101,0:23:35.161 so much monetarily, 0:23:35.161,0:23:37.010 but Lord, I want to be able to give 0:23:37.010,0:23:39.143 in different ways, just to serve? 0:23:39.143,0:23:40.905 Tim: Yeah, it might be that. 0:23:40.905,0:23:44.076 It might be, you know what? 0:23:44.076,0:23:46.715 I can't really give money right now, 0:23:46.715,0:23:49.300 but I can go paint the church building. 0:23:49.300,0:23:51.425 I can go mow the lawn. 0:23:51.425,0:23:53.526 Yeah, it could be that kind of thing. 0:23:53.526,0:23:56.429 There's lots of ways to give to people. 0:23:56.429,0:23:58.442 And you know, in some societies 0:23:58.442,0:24:01.143 where the giving might be - 0:24:01.143,0:24:06.732 you hear about preachers [br]that get a chicken. 0:24:06.732,0:24:09.227 There are other things of value 0:24:09.227,0:24:11.239 that we may have. 0:24:11.239,0:24:12.800 It doesn't come down to just 0:24:12.800,0:24:18.372 whether I'm able to put [br]some bills in the box. 0:24:18.372,0:24:20.633 Brethren, I think one thing that 0:24:20.633,0:24:23.769 just needs to grip us. 0:24:23.769,0:24:29.211 You know, if you look back 0:24:29.211,0:24:35.577 at the kings of Judah. 0:24:35.577,0:24:45.420 One of them went by the name of Amaziah. 0:24:45.420,0:24:49.553 Amaziah - he was the one 0:24:49.553,0:24:57.196 who took like a hundred talents of gold, 0:24:57.196,0:25:02.184 and I believe he was going to battle 0:25:02.184,0:25:05.810 against Ben Hadad of Assyria. 0:25:05.810,0:25:11.152 And he paid a hundred talents of gold 0:25:11.152,0:25:17.059 to another king to [br]basically send mercenaries 0:25:17.059,0:25:19.559 to join his own forces. 0:25:19.559,0:25:24.747 And the prophet came to him and said, 0:25:24.747,0:25:28.790 What are you doing? 0:25:28.790,0:25:32.704 We have the Lord on our side. 0:25:32.704,0:25:34.877 You don't need that. 0:25:34.877,0:25:40.386 And the king had already given the money. 0:25:40.386,0:25:41.693 What do I do about 0:25:41.693,0:25:48.699 the hundred talents of gold? 0:25:48.699,0:25:50.300 What do I do about that? 0:25:50.300,0:25:53.033 And the prophet said, 0:25:53.033,0:25:55.780 what's that? 0:25:55.780,0:25:57.995 The Lord's able to give you much more 0:25:57.995,0:26:01.215 if He wants to. 0:26:01.215,0:26:02.746 There's a place in Haggai 0:26:02.746,0:26:05.508 where it says 0:26:05.508,0:26:09.872 the silver is Mine and the gold is Mine, 0:26:09.872,0:26:11.731 saith the Lord. 0:26:11.731,0:26:13.274 See, that's the thing that 0:26:13.274,0:26:19.769 we really have to recognize. 0:26:19.769,0:26:21.870 I could tell you stories 0:26:21.870,0:26:23.827 about my own family 0:26:23.827,0:26:25.593 and our finances 0:26:25.593,0:26:28.953 and the church and its finances. 0:26:28.953,0:26:30.759 And the stories that I've read 0:26:30.759,0:26:33.897 about men that really impacted me 0:26:33.897,0:26:35.193 in this area. 0:26:35.193,0:26:39.576 Just the accounts, the testimony 0:26:39.576,0:26:43.244 of God's faithfulness. 0:26:43.244,0:26:45.323 It's all the Lord's. 0:26:45.323,0:26:46.975 You have as much as you have 0:26:46.975,0:26:48.357 because the Lord has determined 0:26:48.357,0:26:50.144 for you to have exactly that much. 0:26:50.144,0:26:52.882 He could make you more wealthy 0:26:52.882,0:26:54.118 than Bill Gates, 0:26:54.118,0:26:56.207 if that was His intention. 0:26:56.207,0:26:59.110 He can do that. 0:26:59.110,0:27:02.311 He has not forgotten His people. 0:27:02.311,0:27:05.676 If you're in a situation 0:27:05.676,0:27:08.643 where you give 0:27:08.643,0:27:10.645 and you're seeking to test Him - 0:27:10.645,0:27:13.065 not presumptuously, 0:27:13.065,0:27:16.170 but faithfully - you're testing Him, 0:27:16.170,0:27:19.065 because He says, "test Me," 0:27:19.065,0:27:21.412 because He's given these promises. 0:27:21.412,0:27:22.482 And you say, Lord, 0:27:22.482,0:27:24.425 I'm going to trust these promises. 0:27:24.425,0:27:26.310 You say that if I give, 0:27:26.310,0:27:27.611 men will give to me 0:27:27.611,0:27:28.567 into my lap. 0:27:28.567,0:27:30.766 They will give pressed [br]down, shaken together, 0:27:30.766,0:27:31.695 and overflowing. 0:27:31.695,0:27:35.533 I'm going to test You, Lord. 0:27:35.533,0:27:37.702 Because I want to see Your faithfulness. 0:27:37.702,0:27:39.577 I want to see You do this. 0:27:39.577,0:27:40.809 There's a joy in giving. 0:27:40.809,0:27:42.966 It's more blessed to give than to receive. 0:27:42.966,0:27:47.655 And God will cause that to be the reality. 0:27:47.655,0:27:50.513 But then, if you've given 0:27:50.513,0:27:52.741 and then you're in a place of need. 0:27:52.741,0:27:56.240 What better way to come before the Lord 0:27:56.240,0:28:03.921 and say Lord, I've given, and... 0:28:03.921,0:28:06.830 Repeatedly, I can come and say, 0:28:06.830,0:28:17.565 Lord, I need money for whatever. 0:28:17.565,0:28:20.809 Grace needs a vehicle. 0:28:20.809,0:28:24.154 Or Joshua is going to go to college. 0:28:24.154,0:28:26.637 Lord, if I'd taken the [br]money that I've given 0:28:26.637,0:28:30.383 and I basically - it would have 0:28:30.383,0:28:32.184 put Joshua through school 0:28:32.184,0:28:34.163 and we'd have a vehicle, 0:28:34.163,0:28:36.243 but I didn't. 0:28:36.243,0:28:43.201 I gave it, but now I'm in need. 0:28:43.201,0:28:45.919 That's the perfect place to be. 0:28:45.919,0:28:47.843 Because the Lord says 0:28:47.843,0:28:50.467 that if you're pouring yourself out 0:28:50.467,0:28:53.690 for the hungry - spiritually hungry - 0:28:53.690,0:28:54.544 you're giving. 0:28:54.544,0:28:56.010 People put money in that box. 0:28:56.010,0:28:59.431 We're supporting missionaries.[br]We're supporting the spread of the Gospel. 0:28:59.431,0:29:00.953 We're supporting I'll Be Honest. 0:29:00.953,0:29:02.708 We're supporting Bibles that go out. 0:29:02.708,0:29:04.391 We're supporting all manner of 0:29:04.391,0:29:06.442 different kinds of evangelistic outreaches 0:29:06.442,0:29:08.032 and tracts, 0:29:08.032,0:29:12.910 and supporting men who preach the Gospel. 0:29:12.910,0:29:15.329 That's the greater hunger. 0:29:15.329,0:29:18.492 And the promises there in Isaiah 58 0:29:18.492,0:29:23.159 is when the merciful man cries out 0:29:23.159,0:29:28.577 in need, God says, I'm going [br]to say to that man, 0:29:28.577,0:29:30.639 "Here I am." 0:29:30.639,0:29:32.136 See, that's what happens. 0:29:32.136,0:29:34.662 Lord, I have tried to be mindful 0:29:34.662,0:29:36.621 when other people have been in need. 0:29:36.621,0:29:38.333 And now I'm in need. 0:29:38.333,0:29:40.126 See, there's a promise in Scripture 0:29:40.126,0:29:43.823 that says God's going to say, "Here I am." 0:29:43.823,0:29:45.249 It's like when you can say, 0:29:45.249,0:29:47.537 Lord, I've got these needs now 0:29:47.537,0:29:51.222 and You said - Lord, [br]I've got it right here. 0:29:51.222,0:29:55.215 You said that You would take care of me 0:29:55.215,0:29:57.521 when I get into exactly [br]this kind of situation. 0:29:57.521,0:30:00.962 And what I have found out is He will. 0:30:00.962,0:30:02.457 Every single time. 0:30:02.457,0:30:04.335 And I've been able to say that 0:30:04.335,0:30:05.763 about our church. 0:30:05.763,0:30:07.170 Every single time. 0:30:07.170,0:30:08.355 Every single need that our church 0:30:08.355,0:30:10.727 has ever had. 0:30:10.727,0:30:12.840 If there's been a financial need, 0:30:12.840,0:30:14.409 the Lord has provided for it, 0:30:14.409,0:30:16.067 every single time. 0:30:16.067,0:30:18.032 There's no exceptions. 0:30:18.032,0:30:28.620 He's been faithful every single time. 0:30:28.620,0:30:30.338 Any other thoughts on that one? 0:30:30.338,0:30:31.967 (from the room) 0:30:31.967,0:30:33.699 Just another quick testimony. 0:30:33.699,0:30:36.260 Robert Chapman - 0:30:36.260,0:30:37.876 they were ready to leave 0:30:37.876,0:30:41.816 a conference at the train station, 0:30:41.816,0:30:42.905 but they had no money. 0:30:42.905,0:30:44.783 Chapman had been given some money 0:30:44.783,0:30:46.187 at the conference, 0:30:46.187,0:30:47.523 but then almost immediately 0:30:47.523,0:30:49.199 given it to someone who he felt 0:30:49.199,0:30:50.693 needed it more. 0:30:50.693,0:30:52.386 On the way to the railway station, 0:30:52.386,0:30:53.919 Fisher reminded Chapman 0:30:53.919,0:30:55.587 that they had no money. 0:30:55.587,0:30:57.467 Mr. Chapman replied, 0:30:57.467,0:30:59.490 "To whom does the money belong 0:30:59.490,0:31:02.100 and the cattle upon a thousand hills?" 0:31:02.100,0:31:03.799 When they reached the station, 0:31:03.799,0:31:06.177 a man on an arriving train 0:31:06.177,0:31:07.600 recognized Chapman. 0:31:07.600,0:31:08.481 He hurried over, 0:31:08.481,0:31:09.878 handed him a five pound note 0:31:09.878,0:31:12.002 and said, "I've had this in my pocket 0:31:12.002,0:31:14.562 for some time and I'm glad I met you." 0:31:14.562,0:31:17.244 He then got back on [br]his train which departed. 0:31:17.244,0:31:20.256 After a moment, Chapman [br]asked his companion, 0:31:20.256,0:31:23.064 "To whom does the money belong?" 0:31:23.064,0:31:24.654 Tim: And Hudson Taylor had 0:31:24.654,0:31:26.568 a very similar situation. 0:31:26.568,0:31:28.077 He was traveling the U.S. 0:31:28.077,0:31:30.752 He was at a train station in St. Louis. 0:31:30.752,0:31:34.116 Again, just like he was there whistling 0:31:34.116,0:31:36.866 when he's got a thousand missionaries 0:31:36.866,0:31:39.212 and nothing to pay those guys. 0:31:39.212,0:31:43.343 Here he is standing in the line 0:31:43.343,0:31:44.838 to get a ticket for the train, 0:31:44.838,0:31:47.065 and he's got no money. 0:31:47.065,0:31:51.234 And the guy ahead of [br]him is getting agitated. 0:31:51.234,0:31:53.395 He's feeling this conviction. 0:31:53.395,0:31:58.015 You need to buy Hudson Taylor's 0:31:58.015,0:32:00.652 train ticket. 0:32:00.652,0:32:02.875 And so they get all the way up there, 0:32:02.875,0:32:04.744 and the guy can't bear it any longer. 0:32:04.744,0:32:06.395 So he turns around, 0:32:06.395,0:32:08.032 and either he gave him the money 0:32:08.032,0:32:10.752 or he said I'm going to buy your ticket. 0:32:10.752,0:32:13.575 And then Taylor tells him 0:32:13.575,0:32:14.930 I didn't have any money. 0:32:14.930,0:32:17.071 And the guy was actually [br]frustrated with him. 0:32:17.071,0:32:20.820 What? You just stood there in this line? 0:32:20.820,0:32:23.049 And you didn't say anything? 0:32:23.049,0:32:24.867 That just proved the point. 0:32:24.867,0:32:27.661 I don't have to say anything. 0:32:27.661,0:32:30.666 Because God knows. 0:32:30.666,0:32:35.550 Christina - have we not heard 0:32:35.550,0:32:39.166 the report that came there from China? 0:32:39.166,0:32:41.897 She didn't have the money for rent 0:32:41.897,0:32:45.451 and a lost - listen - 0:32:45.451,0:32:49.742 the Chinese - I'm not saying [br]Americans are much better, 0:32:49.742,0:32:51.920 but different countries kind of 0:32:51.920,0:32:53.982 have their different sins. 0:32:53.982,0:32:55.997 But if there's something [br]that the Chinese are, 0:32:55.997,0:32:58.511 they are cold; they are heartless. 0:32:58.511,0:33:02.014 They are not a merciful people. 0:33:02.014,0:33:04.896 And here is this lost neighbor 0:33:04.896,0:33:08.637 who comes and gives Christina 0:33:08.637,0:33:10.227 a large sum of money, 0:33:10.227,0:33:12.103 and the exact amount that was needed 0:33:12.103,0:33:14.850 to pay the rent that she couldn't pay. 0:33:14.850,0:33:17.922 That's the kind of thing that happens. 0:33:17.922,0:33:19.556 I remember reading the story 0:33:19.556,0:33:21.259 about a widow, 0:33:21.259,0:33:23.198 and she didn't have any food, 0:33:23.198,0:33:25.681 and she lived in an apartment complex, 0:33:25.681,0:33:29.156 and some really wicked man 0:33:29.156,0:33:33.858 came and left - he felt prompted - 0:33:33.858,0:33:36.556 and he left a bag of groceries there. 0:33:36.556,0:33:38.187 He could hear the woman, 0:33:38.187,0:33:39.390 either through the wall 0:33:39.390,0:33:40.404 or through the window 0:33:40.404,0:33:41.703 praising the Lord. 0:33:41.703,0:33:43.236 And he couldn't bear that 0:33:43.236,0:33:46.563 and he had to tell her 0:33:46.563,0:33:49.025 that God didn't bring you those groceries. 0:33:49.025,0:33:52.096 I brought you those groceries. 0:33:52.096,0:33:54.409 And she said, "Oh no, 0:33:54.409,0:33:57.910 the Lord brought those to me 0:33:57.910,0:34:03.762 even if he has to use the devil to do it." 0:34:03.762,0:34:07.462 (incomplete thought) 0:34:07.462,0:34:10.320 But you don't need to know 0:34:10.320,0:34:14.096 the means by which it will come. 0:34:14.096,0:34:16.303 You can exhaust your own thinking 0:34:16.303,0:34:17.918 and your own resources, 0:34:17.918,0:34:19.050 and you can rule out - 0:34:19.050,0:34:20.992 well, it's not going to happen this way; 0:34:20.992,0:34:23.763 it's not going to happen that way. 0:34:23.763,0:34:25.726 I've told this story before, 0:34:25.726,0:34:27.420 but I got to a certain place 0:34:27.420,0:34:30.607 where we had gotten into some degree 0:34:30.607,0:34:34.379 of debt over a vehicle that we bought. 0:34:34.379,0:34:36.195 And I did in the past 0:34:36.195,0:34:38.984 what I would not recommend anybody do now 0:34:38.984,0:34:40.704 with regards to a vehicle. 0:34:40.704,0:34:42.185 There was a reason I did it, 0:34:42.185,0:34:45.183 because I had like $3,500 on a GM card 0:34:45.183,0:34:47.750 and it was probably the 0:34:47.750,0:34:53.028 worst automobile mistake [br]I made in my life. 0:34:53.028,0:34:55.829 But I got into some debt over that van, 0:34:55.829,0:34:57.212 and then Ruby had started 0:34:57.212,0:34:58.613 her cheesecake business. 0:34:58.613,0:35:00.056 And I just asked the Lord, 0:35:00.056,0:35:01.552 Lord, would You please allow us 0:35:01.552,0:35:03.547 to be out of debt by the end of the year? 0:35:03.547,0:35:06.612 And suddenly, anonymous checks 0:35:06.612,0:35:09.533 for $1500, $2000 started showing up 0:35:09.533,0:35:11.314 in the mail. 0:35:11.314,0:35:15.269 And we were going to my mom's at Christmas 0:35:15.269,0:35:18.056 and I got almost all the debt paid off, 0:35:18.056,0:35:21.452 except for about $1500. 0:35:21.452,0:35:23.615 We're going to be heading out of town, 0:35:23.615,0:35:26.995 so I won't be able to [br]check the mail anymore. 0:35:26.995,0:35:28.075 And I thought, 0:35:28.075,0:35:30.682 Ruby, I just want to [br]check the church mail. 0:35:30.682,0:35:32.145 All the checks up to that time 0:35:32.145,0:35:33.348 had come to my home. 0:35:33.348,0:35:35.466 I thought, let's just [br]check the church mail 0:35:35.466,0:35:37.326 because we're going to be out of town 0:35:37.326,0:35:38.810 for two weeks - to make sure 0:35:38.810,0:35:42.139 there's not a backlog in the P.O. box. 0:35:42.139,0:35:44.869 And there was a letter for me. 0:35:44.869,0:35:46.771 And it perfectly paid off 0:35:46.771,0:35:47.919 and got me out of debt. 0:35:47.919,0:35:49.320 And then I started thinking, 0:35:49.320,0:35:51.184 you know if those checks keep coming, 0:35:51.184,0:35:53.066 now that I'm out of debt, 0:35:53.066,0:35:55.356 they never kept coming. 0:35:55.356,0:35:56.651 It was all over. 0:35:56.651,0:35:59.622 Nobody else knew. 0:35:59.622,0:36:02.019 Nobody human knew 0:36:02.019,0:36:03.535 that I had asked the Lord - 0:36:03.535,0:36:06.810 and every time one of those would come in, 0:36:06.810,0:36:09.145 I remember putting them out 0:36:09.145,0:36:10.516 on the dining room table 0:36:10.516,0:36:12.293 and calling all the children around. 0:36:12.293,0:36:14.436 Children, look. 0:36:14.436,0:36:20.698 Daddy prayed and look what the Lord did. 0:36:20.698,0:36:22.454 OK. 0:36:22.454,0:36:24.736 Any other thoughts?