0:00:13.690,0:00:15.840 - [Doreen Garner] I've been[br]having more conversations 0:00:15.840,0:00:18.440 with God in the morning and you know, 0:00:18.440,0:00:20.820 it's usually you know smoke like a joint 0:00:20.820,0:00:22.173 and then talk in a mirror. 0:00:24.530,0:00:26.885 A lot of my most impactful works 0:00:26.885,0:00:28.763 are through those conversations. 0:00:38.220,0:00:42.890 Since lockdown I've changed[br]material tone a lot, 0:00:42.890,0:00:45.733 you know, I've been really aware of 0:00:45.733,0:00:50.733 how Black people are viewing like 0:00:50.820,0:00:53.000 Black bodies in public spaces, 0:00:53.000,0:00:57.550 especially if they like allude[br]to any type of violence. 0:00:57.550,0:01:00.640 So, you know, my sculptures 0:01:00.640,0:01:03.370 usually end up looking pretty violent or 0:01:03.370,0:01:06.260 grotesque or however you[br]want to describe them. 0:01:06.260,0:01:10.260 And so I didn't want to trigger anybody 0:01:11.130,0:01:15.760 more so than before COVID and 0:01:15.760,0:01:19.770 ways that Black death was[br]broadcasted on TV last year. 0:01:19.770,0:01:23.140 So I'm kind of changing tone materially. 0:01:23.140,0:01:26.030 I'm working more with white flesh and 0:01:28.140,0:01:30.287 disease and toxicity. 0:01:31.580,0:01:32.555 - [Doreen Garner] Yeah 0:01:32.555,0:01:35.222 (Doreen laughs) 0:01:38.586,0:01:42.503 (suspenseful fast paced music) 0:01:47.707,0:01:48.740 Right now, 0:01:48.740,0:01:53.740 I'm doing some castings[br]for a piece I'm working on 0:01:53.850,0:01:56.430 it's, it's a series, 0:01:56.430,0:01:59.176 but I'm starting two of the flags 0:01:59.176,0:02:04.130 and they're made out of flesh. 0:02:04.130,0:02:08.650 It's supposed to be white[br]diseased skin on the front 0:02:08.650,0:02:11.680 composing colonizing country flags, 0:02:11.680,0:02:16.080 and then Black bodies on the backside 0:02:16.080,0:02:19.633 that are kind of bloody and piled up. 0:02:19.633,0:02:21.863 The two flags I'm working on right now, 0:02:21.863,0:02:26.696 it's the British flag. And[br]then the flag of Portugal. 0:02:29.330,0:02:32.295 - [Doreen Garner] Those are[br]just two of a few countries 0:02:32.295,0:02:36.192 that were leading in the[br]transatlantic slave trade. 0:02:36.192,0:02:41.030 These two pieces are going[br]to a solo show in Austria, 0:02:41.030,0:02:46.030 and I don't want to put a[br]bunch of bloody Black bodies 0:02:46.200,0:02:49.590 just by themselves as[br]entertainment. So I want them 0:02:49.590,0:02:54.253 to think about ways that their whiteness, 0:02:57.580,0:03:02.569 adds to racism experienced[br]throughout the globe, 0:03:02.569,0:03:04.720 regardless of whether they think 0:03:04.720,0:03:06.050 that they're involved or not. 0:03:06.050,0:03:07.360 A lot of Europeans are like, no, 0:03:07.360,0:03:08.640 we don't do that over[br]here. It's like, well, 0:03:08.640,0:03:09.840 y'all started this shit. 0:03:12.860,0:03:15.070 This piece is a smallpox piece. 0:03:15.070,0:03:18.713 And then this one is more syphilis. 0:03:20.410,0:03:25.310 Working now with white flesh,[br]it's been really difficult 0:03:25.310,0:03:29.158 making the adjustment color-wise. 0:03:29.158,0:03:32.173 There has been a complete[br]shift in my palette 0:03:32.173,0:03:36.550 and figuring out what looks human. 0:03:36.550,0:03:39.220 I've been getting so frustrated 0:03:39.220,0:03:41.740 with trying to get white[br]people's skin tone right. 0:03:41.740,0:03:44.800 And I was explaining[br]this to my friend Nene, 0:03:44.800,0:03:46.040 and she was like, oh, you know, 0:03:46.040,0:03:48.630 I totally feel you because for so long, 0:03:48.630,0:03:50.790 they've gotten our skin tone wrong. 0:03:50.790,0:03:54.933 And it just sent chills because 0:03:54.933,0:03:57.380 I think about all the[br]ways that Black people 0:03:57.380,0:04:01.636 have been misrepresented aesthetically 0:04:01.636,0:04:06.310 and they're totally wrong and offensive. 0:04:06.310,0:04:10.020 And so it's really crazy for me 0:04:10.020,0:04:14.610 to actively try to get[br]their skin tone right, 0:04:14.610,0:04:18.210 when there hasn't been the[br]same amount of consideration 0:04:19.600,0:04:21.453 in ways that they represent us. 0:04:26.980,0:04:29.120 The piece that I did for Basel 0:04:29.120,0:04:32.274 did kind of focus more on whiteness. 0:04:32.274,0:04:37.274 And focusing on whiteness for that piece, 0:04:37.280,0:04:42.180 people read as a more[br]abstract and you know, 0:04:42.180,0:04:44.010 that the piece hasn't sold yet, 0:04:44.010,0:04:45.470 not to say that it won't sell, 0:04:45.470,0:04:50.470 but just thinking about ways[br]that pieces that I've made 0:04:51.770,0:04:56.313 that have had Black[br]bodies have sold faster, 0:04:58.040,0:05:00.957 you know, something to think about. 0:05:10.430,0:05:11.340 - [Doreen Garner] I[br]mean, that's the thing is 0:05:11.340,0:05:13.640 I'm not really trying to[br]shit on the art world. 0:05:13.640,0:05:18.640 It just makes me feel viscerally[br]uncomfortable sometimes. 0:05:18.840,0:05:23.840 And that can come in social[br]anxiety at exhibition, 0:05:25.300,0:05:28.290 or staying up all night, 0:05:28.290,0:05:31.310 trying to prepare files for an application 0:05:31.310,0:05:33.420 that I might get denied for. 0:05:33.420,0:05:35.220 And what does that do to me? You know, 0:05:35.220,0:05:40.220 it's like constantly setting[br]up yourself for denial. 0:05:40.862,0:05:44.143 Seems kind of unhealthy,[br]right? Mentally unhealthy. 0:05:45.370,0:05:49.480 And I think that's why[br]I really enjoy tattooing 0:05:49.480,0:05:52.230 because I don't have to think[br]about that stuff anymore. 0:05:55.552,0:05:58.640 I'm just interacting with that one person 0:05:59.870,0:06:00.703 for a few hours. 0:06:02.150,0:06:05.293 It's not rooted in acceptance or denial. 0:06:06.563,0:06:07.875 - [Doreen Garner] You ready Debbie? 0:06:07.875,0:06:08.708 - [Debbie Snax] Yeah. 0:06:08.708,0:06:10.600 - [Doreen Garner] We're gonna put it on. 0:06:14.760,0:06:17.823 We met on the internet. 0:06:18.890,0:06:22.286 Debbie is a tattooer from Atlanta 0:06:22.286,0:06:25.113 and now we're like little tattoo besties. 0:06:26.740,0:06:28.646 - [Debbie Snax] Being a[br]traditional tattooer is mostly a, 0:06:28.646,0:06:31.330 it's a traditional white[br]thing to do. You know? 0:06:31.330,0:06:34.320 So most of the time, if I[br]find people who are kind of 0:06:34.320,0:06:38.090 on my same level then they're white. 0:06:38.090,0:06:42.063 So being around Doreen[br]has made me want to, 0:06:42.940,0:06:46.384 not transform myself[br]into more Black, but just 0:06:46.384,0:06:49.703 it's made me more comfortable[br]with drawing Black things. 0:06:58.312,0:07:02.040 - [Doreen] The community that[br]I have in the tattoo world, 0:07:02.040,0:07:05.370 you know they're just more my people. 0:07:05.370,0:07:09.473 Very weird. You know weird, tattooed. 0:07:11.052,0:07:14.095 (laughing) 0:07:14.095,0:07:15.165 - [Doreen] I love it, I love it. 0:07:15.165,0:07:16.610 - [Off Camera] Oh my god,[br]I hate this, I hate this. 0:07:16.610,0:07:17.667 - Oh my gosh 0:07:17.667,0:07:19.400 (laughter) 0:07:19.400,0:07:21.840 - [Debbie Snax] When you[br]first became into yourself, 0:07:21.840,0:07:23.357 did you think you would be a tattooer? 0:07:23.357,0:07:26.810 - [Doreen Garner] No, I mean, I always, 0:07:26.810,0:07:29.500 I was always such a shy nerd. 0:07:29.500,0:07:33.620 And I never thought, I[br]mean I had always hoped 0:07:33.620,0:07:35.790 that I would be covered in tattoos 0:07:35.790,0:07:36.830 and a lot of gold jewelry. 0:07:36.830,0:07:39.221 You know, now that it's happening, 0:07:39.221,0:07:40.915 I'm about it. 0:07:40.915,0:07:42.115 - [Debbie Snax] Right,[br]it's a cute little vibe. 0:07:42.115,0:07:43.333 - [Doreen Garner] It's a cute little vibe. 0:07:43.333,0:07:48.333 - [Debbie Snax] Yeah (laughs) 0:07:48.570,0:07:49.403 [Doreen Garner] Then with tattooing, 0:07:49.403,0:07:50.236 it allows people to collect my work. 0:07:52.770,0:07:54.330 You know, they wouldn't[br]necessarily be able 0:07:54.330,0:07:57.344 to buy a 50 inch flag made of flesh 0:07:57.344,0:07:59.313 and put on their wall, you know. 0:08:01.960,0:08:04.140 Most of the people that I tattoo 0:08:04.140,0:08:04.973 have no idea that I'm a sculptor 0:08:04.973,0:08:05.806 and to what degree my art practice goes. 0:08:14.870,0:08:17.720 If you are Black, melanated and tattooed, 0:08:17.720,0:08:19.735 we're going to be taking some photographs 0:08:19.735,0:08:22.490 of Black people that have tattoos, 0:08:22.490,0:08:24.380 because there's not a lot of documentation 0:08:24.380,0:08:25.830 of Black people with tattoos. 0:08:28.047,0:08:28.880 - [Interviewee] I'm sure, 0:08:28.880,0:08:30.200 everybody here has been tatted by Doreen. 0:08:30.200,0:08:31.093 - [Off camera] They have. 0:08:31.093,0:08:31.926 - [Interviewee] Including yourself? 0:08:31.926,0:08:33.310 - [Off Camera] No, I'm[br]the last one standing. 0:08:33.310,0:08:36.810 - [Interviewee] This is not good. 0:08:38.450,0:08:40.920 - [Doreen Garner] You[br]know, with my tattoos, 0:08:40.920,0:08:42.660 I'm just trying to create the images 0:08:42.660,0:08:46.763 that Black people wanna[br]get on their body, forever. 0:08:48.641,0:08:50.675 Things that they resonate with, 0:08:50.675,0:08:53.253 things that make them feel beautiful.