0:00:00.145,0:00:01.642 Chris Anderson: Al, welcome. 0:00:01.666,0:00:04.146 So look, just six months ago -- 0:00:05.169,0:00:08.481 it seems a lifetime ago,[br]but it really was just six months ago -- 0:00:08.505,0:00:14.535 climate seemed to be on the lips[br]of every thinking person on the planet. 0:00:14.559,0:00:18.824 Recent events seem to have swept it[br]all away from our attention. 0:00:18.848,0:00:21.150 How worried are you about that? 0:00:22.620,0:00:25.855 Al Gore: Well, first of all Chris,[br]thank you so much for inviting me 0:00:25.879,0:00:27.126 to have this conversation. 0:00:27.150,0:00:30.917 People are reacting differently 0:00:30.941,0:00:32.307 to the climate crisis 0:00:32.331,0:00:34.948 in the midst of these[br]other great challenges 0:00:34.972,0:00:38.268 that have taken over our awareness, 0:00:38.292,0:00:39.460 appropriately. 0:00:40.175,0:00:43.852 One reason is something[br]that you mentioned. 0:00:43.876,0:00:47.465 People get the fact[br]that when scientists are warning us 0:00:47.489,0:00:49.677 in ever more dire terms 0:00:49.701,0:00:51.827 and setting their hair[br]on fire, so to speak, 0:00:51.851,0:00:54.812 it's best to listen[br]to what they're saying, 0:00:54.836,0:00:59.254 and I think that lesson[br]has begun to sink in in a new way. 0:00:59.278,0:01:01.372 Another similarity, by the way, 0:01:01.396,0:01:06.478 is that the climate crisis,[br]like the COVID-19 pandemic, 0:01:06.502,0:01:09.341 has revealed in a new way 0:01:09.365,0:01:14.221 the shocking injustices[br]and inequalities and disparities 0:01:14.245,0:01:17.644 that affect communities of color 0:01:17.668,0:01:20.277 and low-income communities. 0:01:20.874,0:01:22.453 There are differences. 0:01:22.477,0:01:27.464 The climate crisis has effects[br]that are not measured in years, 0:01:27.488,0:01:29.572 as the pandemic is, 0:01:29.596,0:01:33.942 but consequences that are measured[br]in centuries and even longer. 0:01:34.440,0:01:39.826 And the other difference is that[br]instead of depressing economic activity 0:01:39.850,0:01:41.517 to deal with the climate crisis, 0:01:41.541,0:01:47.200 as nations around the world[br]have had to do with COVID-19, 0:01:47.224,0:01:51.107 we have the opportunity to create[br]tens of millions of new jobs. 0:01:51.131,0:01:54.199 That sounds like a political phrasing, 0:01:54.223,0:01:56.680 but it's literally true. 0:01:56.704,0:01:58.096 For the last five years, 0:01:58.120,0:02:01.494 the fastest-growing job in the US[br]has been solar installer. 0:02:01.518,0:02:05.527 The second-fastest has been[br]wind turbine technician. 0:02:05.551,0:02:11.055 And the "Oxford Review of Economics,"[br]just a few weeks ago, 0:02:11.079,0:02:16.326 pointed the way to[br]a very jobs-rich recovery 0:02:16.350,0:02:20.463 if we emphasize renewable energy[br]and sustainability technology. 0:02:20.487,0:02:23.986 So I think we are crossing[br]a tipping point, 0:02:24.010,0:02:27.237 and you need only look[br]at the recovery plans 0:02:27.261,0:02:30.178 that are being presented[br]in nations around the world 0:02:30.202,0:02:34.579 to see that they're very much[br]focused on a green recovery. 0:02:35.078,0:02:37.634 CA: I mean, one obvious impact[br]of the pandemic 0:02:37.658,0:02:41.456 is that it's brought the world's economy[br]to a shuddering halt, 0:02:41.480,0:02:45.482 thereby reducing greenhouse gas emissions. 0:02:45.506,0:02:48.288 I mean, how big an effect has that been, 0:02:48.312,0:02:52.029 and is it unambiguously good news? 0:02:52.943,0:02:55.706 AG: Well, it's a little bit[br]of an illusion, Chris, 0:02:55.730,0:03:02.341 and you need only look back[br]to the Great Recession in 2008 and '09, 0:03:02.365,0:03:05.639 when there was a one percent[br]decline in emissions, 0:03:05.663,0:03:07.624 but then in 2010, 0:03:07.648,0:03:10.645 they came roaring back during the recovery 0:03:10.669,0:03:13.208 with a four percent increase. 0:03:13.232,0:03:18.051 The latest estimates are that emissions[br]will go down by at least five percent 0:03:18.075,0:03:21.152 during this induced coma, 0:03:21.176,0:03:26.607 as the economist Paul Krugman[br]perceptively described it, 0:03:26.631,0:03:30.799 but whether it goes back the way it did[br]after the Great Recession 0:03:30.823,0:03:33.615 is in part up to us, 0:03:33.639,0:03:38.292 and if these green recovery plans[br]are actually implemented, 0:03:38.316,0:03:42.205 and I know many countries[br]are determined to implement them, 0:03:42.229,0:03:45.723 then we need not repeat that pattern. 0:03:45.747,0:03:48.994 After all, this whole process is occurring 0:03:49.018,0:03:55.938 during a period when[br]the cost of renewable energy 0:03:55.962,0:03:57.924 and electric vehicles, batteries 0:03:57.948,0:04:01.068 and a range of other[br]sustainability approaches 0:04:01.092,0:04:04.695 are continuing to fall in price, 0:04:04.719,0:04:08.167 and they're becoming[br]much more competitive. 0:04:08.191,0:04:12.854 Just a quick reference[br]to how fast this is: 0:04:12.878,0:04:15.903 five years ago, electricity[br]from solar and wind 0:04:15.927,0:04:19.087 was cheaper than electricity[br]from fossil fuels 0:04:19.111,0:04:20.891 in only one percent of the world. 0:04:20.915,0:04:24.048 This year, it's cheaper[br]in two-thirds of the world, 0:04:24.072,0:04:26.093 and five years from now, 0:04:26.117,0:04:30.667 it will be cheaper in virtually[br]100 percent of the world. 0:04:30.691,0:04:34.821 EVs will be cost-competitive[br]within two years, 0:04:34.845,0:04:38.266 and then will continue falling in price. 0:04:38.290,0:04:41.154 And so there are changes underway 0:04:41.178,0:04:45.472 that could interrupt the pattern[br]we saw after the Great Recession. 0:04:46.193,0:04:50.050 CA: The reason those pricing differentials[br]happen in different parts of the world 0:04:50.074,0:04:53.851 is obviously because there's different[br]amounts of sunshine and wind there 0:04:53.875,0:04:56.051 and different building costs and so forth. 0:04:56.624,0:05:01.150 AG: Well, yes, and government policies[br]also account for a lot. 0:05:01.174,0:05:04.633 The world is continuing[br]to subsidize fossil fuels 0:05:04.657,0:05:06.578 at a ridiculous amount, 0:05:06.602,0:05:11.653 more so in many developing countries[br]than in the US and developed countries, 0:05:11.677,0:05:15.972 but it's subsidized here as well. 0:05:15.996,0:05:18.288 But everywhere in the world, 0:05:18.312,0:05:22.702 wind and solar will be cheaper[br]as a source of electricity 0:05:22.726,0:05:24.277 than fossil fuels, 0:05:24.301,0:05:25.814 within a few years. 0:05:27.180,0:05:29.872 CA: I think I've heard it said[br]that the fall in emissions 0:05:29.896,0:05:32.019 caused by the pandemic 0:05:32.043,0:05:35.291 isn't that much more than, actually,[br]the fall that we will need 0:05:35.315,0:05:37.132 every single year 0:05:37.156,0:05:40.406 if we're to meet emissions targets. 0:05:40.961,0:05:42.840 Is that true, and, if so, 0:05:42.864,0:05:45.080 doesn't that seem impossibly daunting? 0:05:45.800,0:05:48.445 AG: It does seem daunting,[br]but first look at the number. 0:05:48.469,0:05:51.769 That number came from a study[br]a little over a year ago 0:05:51.793,0:05:54.483 released by the IPCC 0:05:54.507,0:05:59.755 as to what it would take to keep[br]the Earth's temperatures from increasing 0:05:59.779,0:06:02.941 more than 1.5 degrees Celsius. 0:06:02.965,0:06:08.001 And yes, the annual reductions[br]would be significant, 0:06:08.025,0:06:10.912 on the order of what we've seen[br]with the pandemic. 0:06:10.936,0:06:12.698 And yes, that does seem daunting. 0:06:12.722,0:06:19.707 However, we do have the opportunity[br]to make some fairly dramatic changes, 0:06:19.731,0:06:22.331 and the plan is not a mystery. 0:06:22.355,0:06:27.806 You start with the two sectors that are[br]closest to an effective transition -- 0:06:27.830,0:06:30.688 electricity generation, as I mentioned -- 0:06:30.712,0:06:33.304 and last year, 2019, 0:06:33.328,0:06:37.270 if you look at all of the new[br]electricity generation built 0:06:37.294,0:06:38.770 all around the world, 0:06:38.794,0:06:43.141 72 percent of it was from solar and wind. 0:06:43.165,0:06:47.986 And already, without the continuing[br]subsidies for fossil fuels, 0:06:48.010,0:06:50.510 we would see many more of these plants 0:06:50.534,0:06:51.908 being shut down. 0:06:51.932,0:06:54.051 There are some new[br]fossil plants being built, 0:06:54.075,0:06:57.004 but many more are being shut down. 0:06:57.028,0:06:59.139 And where transportation is concerned, 0:06:59.163,0:07:01.850 the second sector ready to go, 0:07:01.874,0:07:07.515 in addition to the cheaper prices[br]for EVs that I made reference to before, 0:07:07.539,0:07:12.078 there are some 45 jurisdictions[br]around the world -- 0:07:12.102,0:07:16.886 national, regional and municipal -- 0:07:16.910,0:07:20.313 where laws have been passed[br]beginning a phaseout 0:07:20.337,0:07:21.880 of internal combustion engines. 0:07:21.904,0:07:26.243 Even India said that by 2030,[br]less than 10 years from now, 0:07:26.267,0:07:31.039 it will be illegal to sell[br]any new internal combustion engines 0:07:31.063,0:07:32.364 in India. 0:07:32.388,0:07:34.661 There are many other examples. 0:07:34.685,0:07:39.051 So the past small reductions 0:07:39.075,0:07:43.023 may not be an accurate guide[br]to the kind we can achieve 0:07:43.047,0:07:46.100 with serious national plans 0:07:46.124,0:07:48.592 and a focused global effort. 0:07:49.564,0:07:53.077 CA: So help us understand[br]just the big picture here, Al. 0:07:53.101,0:07:56.324 I think before the pandemic, 0:07:56.348,0:07:58.927 the world was emitting 0:07:58.951,0:08:03.154 about 55 gigatons of what[br]they call "CO2 equivalent," 0:08:03.178,0:08:05.062 so that includes other greenhouse gases 0:08:05.086,0:08:09.193 like methane dialed up[br]to be the equivalent of CO2. 0:08:09.217,0:08:11.859 And am I right in saying that the IPCC, 0:08:11.883,0:08:15.044 which is the global[br]organization of scientists, 0:08:15.068,0:08:19.991 is recommending that[br]the only way to fix this crisis 0:08:20.015,0:08:22.726 is to get that number from 55 to zero 0:08:22.750,0:08:25.845 by 2050 at the very latest, 0:08:25.869,0:08:30.237 and that even then, there's a chance[br]that we will end up with temperature rises 0:08:30.261,0:08:34.678 more like two degrees Celsius[br]rather than 1.5? 0:08:34.702,0:08:37.775 I mean, is that approximately[br]the big picture 0:08:37.799,0:08:40.077 of what the IPCC is recommending? 0:08:40.803,0:08:42.083 AG: That's correct. 0:08:42.107,0:08:46.872 The global goal established[br]in the Paris Conference 0:08:46.896,0:08:49.821 is to get to net zero on a global basis 0:08:49.845,0:08:51.359 by 2050, 0:08:51.383,0:08:53.104 and many people quickly add 0:08:53.128,0:08:58.456 that that really means a 45[br]to 50 percent reduction by 2030 0:08:58.480,0:09:03.101 to make that pathway[br]to net zero feasible. 0:09:03.902,0:09:06.398 CA: And that kind of timeline[br]is the kind of timeline 0:09:06.422,0:09:08.296 where people couldn't even imagine it. 0:09:08.320,0:09:10.568 It's just hard to think[br]of policy over 30 years. 0:09:10.592,0:09:12.570 So that's actually a very good shorthand, 0:09:12.594,0:09:16.954 that humanity's task is to cut[br]emissions in half by 2030, 0:09:16.978,0:09:19.410 approximately speaking, 0:09:19.434,0:09:24.921 which I think boils down to about[br]a seven or eight percent reduction a year, 0:09:24.945,0:09:26.816 something like that, if I'm not wrong. 0:09:26.840,0:09:28.750 AG: Not quite. Not quite that large 0:09:28.774,0:09:30.768 but close, yes. 0:09:31.806,0:09:36.926 CA: So it is something like the effect[br]that we've experienced this year 0:09:36.950,0:09:39.166 may be necessary. 0:09:39.190,0:09:42.247 This year, we've done it[br]by basically shutting down the economy. 0:09:42.271,0:09:45.321 You're talking about a way of doing it[br]over the coming years 0:09:45.345,0:09:49.217 that actually gives some[br]economic growth and new jobs. 0:09:49.241,0:09:50.948 So talk more about that. 0:09:50.972,0:09:54.131 You've referred to[br]changing our energy sources, 0:09:54.155,0:09:55.969 changing how we transport. 0:09:55.993,0:09:57.680 If we did those things, 0:09:57.704,0:10:00.467 how much of the problem does that solve? 0:10:01.284,0:10:02.787 AG: Well, we can get to -- 0:10:02.811,0:10:05.826 well, in addition to doing[br]the two sectors that I mentioned, 0:10:05.850,0:10:10.883 we also have to deal with manufacturing[br]and all the use cases 0:10:10.907,0:10:14.601 that require temperatures[br]of a thousand degrees Celsius, 0:10:14.625,0:10:16.908 and there are solutions there as well. 0:10:16.932,0:10:22.562 I'll come back and mention an exciting one[br]that Germany has just embarked upon. 0:10:22.586,0:10:26.482 We also have to tackle[br]regenerative agriculture. 0:10:26.506,0:10:32.091 There is the opportunity[br]to sequester a great deal of carbon 0:10:32.115,0:10:34.497 in topsoils around the world 0:10:34.521,0:10:37.875 by changing the agricultural techniques. 0:10:37.899,0:10:41.074 There is a farmer-led movement to do that. 0:10:41.098,0:10:44.956 We need to also retrofit buildings. 0:10:44.980,0:10:50.359 We need to change our management[br]of forests and the ocean. 0:10:50.383,0:10:53.688 But let me just mention[br]two things briefly. 0:10:53.712,0:10:56.995 First of all, the high[br]temperature use cases. 0:10:57.423,0:11:00.726 Angela Merkel, just 10 days ago, 0:11:00.750,0:11:04.288 with the leadership of[br]her minister Peter Altmaier, 0:11:04.312,0:11:07.188 who is a good friend[br]and a great public servant, 0:11:07.212,0:11:11.560 have just embarked on[br]a green hydrogen strategy 0:11:11.584,0:11:14.180 to make hydrogen 0:11:14.204,0:11:17.761 with zero marginal cost renewable energy. 0:11:17.785,0:11:20.339 And just a word on that, Chris: 0:11:20.363,0:11:25.045 you've heard about the intermittency[br]of wind and solar -- 0:11:25.069,0:11:28.223 solar doesn't produce electricity[br]when the sun's not shining, 0:11:28.247,0:11:31.251 and wind doesn't[br]when the wind's not blowing -- 0:11:31.275,0:11:33.618 but batteries are getting better, 0:11:33.642,0:11:37.711 and these technologies are becoming[br]much more efficient and powerful, 0:11:37.735,0:11:41.598 so that for an increasing number[br]of hours of each day, 0:11:41.622,0:11:46.825 they're producing often way more[br]electricity than can be used. 0:11:46.849,0:11:48.298 So what to do with it? 0:11:48.322,0:11:52.641 The marginal cost[br]for the next kilowatt-hour is zero. 0:11:52.665,0:11:53.826 So all of a sudden, 0:11:53.850,0:11:59.007 the very energy-intensive process[br]of cracking hydrogen from water 0:11:59.031,0:12:01.490 becomes economically feasible, 0:12:01.514,0:12:07.309 and it can be substituted[br]for coal and gas, 0:12:07.333,0:12:08.876 and that's already being done. 0:12:08.900,0:12:13.454 There's a Swedish company[br]already making steel with green hydrogen, 0:12:13.478,0:12:18.329 and, as I say, Germany has just embarked[br]on a major new initiative to do that. 0:12:18.353,0:12:21.695 I think they're pointing the way[br]for the rest of the world. 0:12:21.719,0:12:25.001 Now, where building retrofits[br]are concerned, just a moment on this, 0:12:25.025,0:12:29.637 because about 20 to 25 percent[br]of the global warming pollution 0:12:29.661,0:12:32.152 in the world and in the US 0:12:32.176,0:12:35.254 comes from inefficient buildings 0:12:35.278,0:12:39.715 that were constructed[br]by companies and individuals 0:12:39.739,0:12:42.212 who were trying to be competitive[br]in the marketplace 0:12:42.236,0:12:44.933 and keep their margins acceptably high 0:12:44.957,0:12:48.596 and thereby skimping on insulation[br]and the right windows 0:12:48.620,0:12:50.728 and LEDs and the rest. 0:12:50.752,0:12:54.537 And yet the person or company[br]that buys that building 0:12:54.561,0:12:56.014 or leases that building, 0:12:56.038,0:12:58.946 they want their monthly[br]utility bills much lower. 0:12:58.970,0:13:00.833 So there are now ways 0:13:00.857,0:13:03.931 to close that so-called[br]agent-principal divide, 0:13:03.955,0:13:07.901 the differing incentives[br]for the builder and occupier, 0:13:07.925,0:13:12.850 and we can retrofit buildings with[br]a program that literally pays for itself 0:13:12.874,0:13:14.728 over three to five years, 0:13:14.752,0:13:17.993 and we could put tens of millions[br]of people to work 0:13:18.017,0:13:21.180 in jobs that by definition[br]cannot be outsourced 0:13:21.204,0:13:24.753 because they exist[br]in every single community. 0:13:24.777,0:13:27.771 And we really ought to get serious[br]about doing this, 0:13:27.795,0:13:30.690 because we're going to need all those jobs 0:13:30.714,0:13:35.498 to get sustainable prosperity[br]in the aftermath of this pandemic. 0:13:37.192,0:13:39.202 CA: Just going back[br]to the hydrogen economy 0:13:39.226,0:13:40.905 that you referred to there, 0:13:40.929,0:13:42.227 when some people hear that, 0:13:42.251,0:13:45.497 they think, "Oh, are you talking[br]about hydrogen-fueled cars?" 0:13:45.521,0:13:48.648 And they've heard that that[br]probably won't be a winning strategy. 0:13:48.672,0:13:51.374 But you're thinking much more[br]broadly than that, I think, 0:13:51.398,0:13:55.835 that it's not just hydrogen[br]as a kind of storage mechanism 0:13:55.859,0:13:59.029 to act as a buffer for renewable energy, 0:13:59.053,0:14:00.777 but also hydrogen could be essential 0:14:00.801,0:14:05.715 for some of the other processes[br]in the economy like making steel, 0:14:05.739,0:14:06.912 making cement, 0:14:06.936,0:14:11.458 that are fundamentally[br]carbon-intensive processes right now 0:14:11.482,0:14:14.860 but could be transformed if we had[br]much cheaper sources of hydrogen. 0:14:14.884,0:14:16.050 Is that right? 0:14:16.377,0:14:20.652 AG: Yes, I was always skeptical[br]about hydrogen, Chris, 0:14:20.676,0:14:25.099 principally because it's been[br]so expensive to make it, 0:14:25.123,0:14:27.948 to "crack it out of water," as they say. 0:14:27.972,0:14:30.455 But the game-changer has been 0:14:30.479,0:14:36.010 the incredible abundance[br]of solar and wind electricity 0:14:36.034,0:14:40.255 in volumes and amounts[br]that people didn't expect, 0:14:40.279,0:14:43.027 and all of a sudden,[br]it's cheap enough to use 0:14:43.051,0:14:46.204 for these very energy-intensive processes 0:14:46.228,0:14:48.464 like creating green hydrogen. 0:14:48.488,0:14:51.853 I'm still a bit skeptical[br]about using it in vehicles. 0:14:51.877,0:14:58.298 Toyota's been betting on that for 25 years[br]and it hasn't really worked for them. 0:14:58.322,0:15:00.066 Never say never, maybe it will, 0:15:00.090,0:15:05.186 but I think it's most useful for these[br]high-temperature industrial processes, 0:15:05.210,0:15:10.532 and we already have a pathway[br]for decarbonizing transportation 0:15:10.556,0:15:11.985 with electricity 0:15:12.009,0:15:14.292 that's working extremely well. 0:15:14.316,0:15:19.591 Tesla's going to be soon the most valuable[br]automobile company in the world, 0:15:19.615,0:15:20.905 already in the US, 0:15:20.929,0:15:23.691 and they're about to overtake Toyota. 0:15:23.715,0:15:30.558 There is now a semitruck company[br]that's been stood up by Tesla 0:15:30.582,0:15:36.126 and another that is going to be a hybrid[br]with electricity and green hydrogen, 0:15:36.150,0:15:39.834 so we'll see whether or not[br]they can make it work in that application. 0:15:39.858,0:15:43.539 But I think electricity is preferable[br]for cars and trucks. 0:15:44.510,0:15:47.220 CA: We're coming to some[br]community questions in a minute. 0:15:47.244,0:15:49.540 Let me ask you, though, about nuclear. 0:15:49.564,0:15:53.080 Some environmentalists[br]believe that nuclear, 0:15:53.104,0:15:55.885 or maybe new generation nuclear power 0:15:55.909,0:15:58.936 is an essential part of the equation 0:15:58.960,0:16:02.475 if we're to get to a truly clean future, 0:16:02.499,0:16:03.794 a clean energy future. 0:16:03.818,0:16:07.625 Are you still pretty skeptical[br]on nuclear, Al? 0:16:08.441,0:16:11.727 AG: Well, the market's skeptical[br]about it, Chris. 0:16:11.751,0:16:16.540 It's been a crushing disappointment[br]for me and for so many. 0:16:16.564,0:16:20.150 I used to represent Oak Ridge,[br]where nuclear energy began, 0:16:20.174,0:16:22.405 and when I was a young congressman, 0:16:22.429,0:16:23.761 I was a booster. 0:16:23.785,0:16:26.007 I was very enthusiastic about it. 0:16:26.031,0:16:28.074 But the cost overruns 0:16:28.098,0:16:32.096 and the problems in building these plants 0:16:32.120,0:16:34.525 have become so severe 0:16:34.549,0:16:38.549 that utilities just don't have[br]an appetite for them. 0:16:38.573,0:16:43.358 It's become the most expensive[br]source of electricity. 0:16:43.382,0:16:49.051 Now, let me hasten to add[br]that there are some older nuclear reactors 0:16:49.075,0:16:55.146 that have more useful time[br]that could be added onto their lifetimes. 0:16:55.170,0:16:56.972 And like a lot of environmentalists, 0:16:56.996,0:17:02.534 I've come to the view[br]that if they can be determined to be safe, 0:17:02.558,0:17:09.296 they should be allowed to continue[br]operating for a time. 0:17:09.320,0:17:11.809 But where new nuclear[br]power plants are concerned, 0:17:11.833,0:17:13.534 here's a way to look at it. 0:17:13.558,0:17:16.036 If you are -- you've been a CEO, Chris. 0:17:16.060,0:17:20.341 If you were the CEO of --[br]I guess you still are. 0:17:20.365,0:17:23.514 If you were the CEO[br]of an electric utility, 0:17:23.538,0:17:25.387 and you told your executive team, 0:17:25.411,0:17:28.341 "I want to build a nuclear power plant," 0:17:28.365,0:17:31.987 two of the first questions[br]you would ask are, number one: 0:17:32.011,0:17:33.985 How much will it cost? 0:17:34.009,0:17:37.253 And there's not a single[br]engineering consulting firm 0:17:37.277,0:17:39.577 that I've been able to find[br]anywhere in the world 0:17:39.601,0:17:43.019 that will put their name on an opinion 0:17:43.043,0:17:45.002 giving you a cost estimate. 0:17:45.026,0:17:46.642 They just don't know. 0:17:46.666,0:17:48.688 A second question you would ask is: 0:17:48.712,0:17:53.350 How long will it take to build it,[br]so we can start selling the electricity? 0:17:53.374,0:17:55.323 And again, the answer you will get is, 0:17:55.347,0:17:56.826 "We have no idea." 0:17:56.850,0:17:59.480 So if you don't know[br]how much it's going to cost, 0:17:59.504,0:18:02.204 and you don't know[br]when it's going to be finished, 0:18:02.228,0:18:05.521 and you already know that[br]the electricity is more expensive 0:18:05.545,0:18:08.782 than the alternate ways to produce it, 0:18:08.806,0:18:10.816 that's going to be a little discouraging, 0:18:10.840,0:18:14.361 and, in fact, that's been the case[br]for utilities around the world. 0:18:15.715,0:18:16.885 CA: OK. 0:18:16.909,0:18:19.510 So there's definitely[br]an interesting debate there, 0:18:19.534,0:18:22.349 but we're going to come on[br]to some community questions. 0:18:22.373,0:18:24.909 Let's have the first[br]of those questions up, please. 0:18:26.306,0:18:28.785 From Prosanta Chakrabarty: 0:18:28.809,0:18:31.437 "People who are skeptical[br]of COVID and of climate change 0:18:31.461,0:18:33.505 seem to be skeptical[br]of science in general. 0:18:33.529,0:18:35.932 It may be that the singular[br]message from scientists 0:18:35.956,0:18:37.339 gets diluted and convoluted. 0:18:37.363,0:18:39.026 How do we fix that?" 0:18:39.757,0:18:43.879 AG: Yeah, that's[br]a great question, Prosanta. 0:18:44.609,0:18:49.815 Boy, I'm trying to put this[br]succinctly and shortly. 0:18:49.839,0:18:52.276 I think that there has been 0:18:52.300,0:18:57.163 a feeling that experts in general 0:18:57.187,0:19:00.736 have kind of let the US down, 0:19:00.760,0:19:07.750 and that feeling is much more pronounced[br]in the US than in most other countries. 0:19:07.774,0:19:14.726 And I think that the considered opinion[br]of what we call experts 0:19:14.750,0:19:18.747 has been diluted over the last few decades 0:19:18.771,0:19:24.790 by the unhealthy dominance[br]of big money in our political system, 0:19:24.814,0:19:31.371 which has found ways[br]to really twist economic policy 0:19:31.395,0:19:33.604 to benefit elites. 0:19:33.628,0:19:35.268 And this sounds a little radical, 0:19:35.292,0:19:38.356 but it's actually what has happened. 0:19:38.380,0:19:42.266 And we have gone for more than 40 years 0:19:42.290,0:19:45.671 without any meaningful increase[br]in middle-income pay, 0:19:45.695,0:19:50.871 and where the injustice experienced[br]by African Americans 0:19:50.895,0:19:53.526 and other communities[br]of color are concerned, 0:19:53.550,0:19:58.560 the differential in pay between[br]African Americans and majority Americans 0:19:58.584,0:20:01.868 is the same as it was in 1968, 0:20:01.892,0:20:04.626 and the family wealth, 0:20:04.650,0:20:06.042 the net worth -- 0:20:06.066,0:20:11.141 it takes 11 and a half so-called[br]"typical" African American families 0:20:11.165,0:20:16.569 to make up the net worth of one[br]so-called "typical" White American family. 0:20:16.593,0:20:20.588 And you look at the soaring incomes 0:20:20.612,0:20:24.153 in the top one[br]or the top one-tenth of one percent, 0:20:24.177,0:20:25.723 and people say, "Wait a minute. 0:20:25.747,0:20:29.865 Whoever the experts were[br]that designed these policies, 0:20:29.889,0:20:33.966 they haven't been doing[br]a good job for me." 0:20:33.990,0:20:36.060 A final point, Chris: 0:20:36.084,0:20:39.147 there has been an assault on reason. 0:20:39.171,0:20:42.380 There has been a war against truth. 0:20:42.404,0:20:45.585 There has been a strategy, 0:20:45.609,0:20:51.060 maybe it was best known as a strategy[br]decades ago by the tobacco companies 0:20:51.084,0:20:56.064 who hired actors and dressed them up[br]as doctors to falsely reassure people 0:20:56.088,0:20:59.505 that there were no health consequences[br]from smoking cigarettes, 0:20:59.529,0:21:02.882 and a hundred million people[br]died as a result. 0:21:02.906,0:21:08.854 That same strategy of diminishing[br]the significance of truth, 0:21:08.878,0:21:13.152 diminishing, as someone said,[br]the authority of knowledge, 0:21:13.176,0:21:17.509 I think that has made it[br]kind of open season 0:21:17.533,0:21:22.096 on any inconvenient truth --[br]forgive another buzz phrase, 0:21:22.120,0:21:24.426 but it is apt. 0:21:24.450,0:21:30.880 We cannot abandon our devotion[br]to the best available evidence 0:21:30.904,0:21:33.952 tested in reasoned discourse 0:21:33.976,0:21:36.464 and used as the basis 0:21:36.488,0:21:39.708 for the best policies we can form. 0:21:39.732,0:21:43.298 CA: Is it possible, Al,[br]that one consequence of the pandemic 0:21:43.322,0:21:46.093 is actually a growing number of people 0:21:46.117,0:21:49.406 have revisited their opinions[br]on scientists? 0:21:49.430,0:21:52.190 I mean, you've had a chance[br]in the last few months to say, 0:21:52.214,0:21:55.502 "Do I trust my political leader[br]or do I trust this scientist 0:21:55.526,0:21:57.470 in terms of what they're saying 0:21:57.494,0:21:59.921 about this virus?" 0:21:59.945,0:22:02.646 Maybe lessons from that[br]could be carried forward? 0:22:03.646,0:22:07.408 AG: Well, you know, I think[br]if the polling is accurate, 0:22:07.432,0:22:13.231 people do trust their doctors[br]a lot more than some of the politicians 0:22:13.255,0:22:18.564 who seem to have a vested interest[br]in pretending the pandemic isn't real. 0:22:18.588,0:22:22.419 And if you look at the incredible bust 0:22:22.443,0:22:25.927 at President Trump's rally in Tulsa, 0:22:25.951,0:22:32.942 a stadium of 19,000 people[br]with less than one-third filled, 0:22:32.966,0:22:34.496 according to the fire marshal, 0:22:34.520,0:22:38.057 you saw all the empty seats[br]if you saw the news clips, 0:22:38.081,0:22:42.727 so even the most loyal Trump supporters 0:22:42.751,0:22:48.310 must have decided to trust their doctors[br]and the medical advice 0:22:48.334,0:22:52.017 rather than Dr. Donald Trump. 0:22:53.080,0:22:56.104 CA: With a little help from[br]the TikTok generation, perchance. 0:22:56.128,0:22:58.693 AG: Well, but that didn't[br]affect the turnout. 0:22:58.717,0:23:02.776 What they did, very cleverly,[br]and I'm cheering them on, 0:23:02.800,0:23:09.367 what they did was affect[br]the Trump White House's expectations. 0:23:09.391,0:23:13.759 They're the reason why he went out[br]a couple days beforehand 0:23:13.783,0:23:16.192 and said, "We've had[br]a million people sign up." 0:23:16.216,0:23:17.829 But they didn't prevent -- 0:23:17.853,0:23:22.175 they didn't take seats that others[br]could have otherwise taken. 0:23:22.199,0:23:25.047 They didn't affect the turnout,[br]just the expectations. 0:23:25.071,0:23:27.982 CA: OK, let's have our next question here. 0:23:30.848,0:23:34.343 "Are you concerned the world will rush[br]back to the use of the private car 0:23:34.367,0:23:37.458 out of fear of using[br]shared public transportation?" 0:23:38.923,0:23:45.792 AG: Well, that could actually be[br]one of the consequences, absolutely. 0:23:45.816,0:23:49.236 Now, the trends on mass transit 0:23:49.260,0:23:52.713 were already inching[br]in the wrong direction 0:23:52.737,0:23:57.706 because of Uber and Lyft[br]and the ridesharing services, 0:23:57.730,0:24:04.420 and if autonomy ever reaches the goals[br]that its advocates have hoped for 0:24:04.444,0:24:08.434 then that may also have a similar effect. 0:24:08.458,0:24:12.314 But there's no doubt that some people 0:24:12.338,0:24:17.821 are going to be probably[br]a little more reluctant 0:24:17.845,0:24:20.446 to take mass transportation 0:24:20.470,0:24:27.448 until the fear of this pandemic[br]is well and truly gone. 0:24:27.472,0:24:30.267 CA: Yeah. Might need[br]a vaccine on that one. 0:24:30.291,0:24:31.808 AG: (Laughs) Yeah. 0:24:31.832,0:24:33.060 CA: Next question. 0:24:36.233,0:24:38.855 Sonaar Luthra, thank you[br]for this question from LA. 0:24:38.879,0:24:41.558 "Given the temperature rise[br]in the Arctic this past week, 0:24:41.582,0:24:43.939 seems like the rate[br]we are losing our carbon sinks 0:24:43.963,0:24:45.208 like permafrost or forests 0:24:45.232,0:24:47.436 is accelerating faster than we predicted. 0:24:47.460,0:24:50.898 Are our models too focused[br]on human emissions?" 0:24:50.922,0:24:52.073 Interesting question. 0:24:52.097,0:24:57.362 AG: Well, the models are focused[br]on the factors that have led 0:24:57.386,0:25:00.863 to these incredible temperature spikes 0:25:00.887,0:25:02.888 in the north of the Arctic Circle. 0:25:02.912,0:25:06.003 They were predicted,[br]they have been predicted, 0:25:06.027,0:25:08.845 and one of the reasons for it 0:25:08.869,0:25:12.498 is that as the snow and ice cover melts, 0:25:12.522,0:25:17.355 the sun's incoming rays are no longer[br]reflected back into space 0:25:17.379,0:25:19.514 at a 90 percent rate, 0:25:19.538,0:25:23.825 and instead, when they fall on[br]the dark tundra or the dark ocean, 0:25:23.849,0:25:26.179 they're absorbed at a 90 percent rate. 0:25:26.203,0:25:32.050 So that's a magnifier[br]of the warming in the Arctic, 0:25:32.074,0:25:33.828 and this has been predicted. 0:25:33.852,0:25:37.978 There are a number of other consequences[br]that are also in the models, 0:25:38.002,0:25:41.776 but some of them[br]may have to be recalibrated. 0:25:41.800,0:25:45.441 The scientists are freshly concerned 0:25:45.465,0:25:50.579 that the emissions of both CO2 and methane 0:25:50.603,0:25:53.415 from the thawing tundra 0:25:53.439,0:25:58.200 could be larger than they[br]had hoped they would be. 0:25:58.224,0:26:02.124 There's also just been a brand-new study. 0:26:02.148,0:26:03.731 I won't spend time on this, 0:26:03.755,0:26:07.769 because it deals with a kind of geeky term[br]called "climate sensitivity," 0:26:07.793,0:26:12.999 which has been a factor in the models[br]with large error bars 0:26:13.023,0:26:15.312 because it's so hard to pin down. 0:26:15.336,0:26:18.529 But the latest evidence[br]indicates, worryingly, 0:26:18.553,0:26:22.164 that the sensitivity may be[br]greater than they had thought, 0:26:22.188,0:26:26.007 and we will have[br]an even more daunting task. 0:26:26.031,0:26:28.091 That shouldn't discourage us. 0:26:28.115,0:26:31.744 I truly believe that once[br]we cross this tipping point, 0:26:31.768,0:26:33.830 and I do believe we're doing it now, 0:26:33.854,0:26:35.066 as I've said, 0:26:35.090,0:26:38.388 then I think we're going[br]to find a lot of ways 0:26:38.412,0:26:40.979 to speed up the emissions reductions. 0:26:42.369,0:26:44.850 CA: We'll take one more question[br]from the community. 0:26:47.350,0:26:50.153 Haha. "Geoengineering[br]is making extraordinary progress. 0:26:50.177,0:26:55.163 Exxon is investing in technology[br]from Global Thermostat 0:26:55.187,0:26:56.810 that seems promising. 0:26:56.834,0:27:01.181 What do you think of these air and water[br]carbon capture technologies?" 0:27:01.205,0:27:02.638 Stephen Petranek. 0:27:03.331,0:27:07.360 AG: Yeah. Well, you and I have[br]talked about this before, Chris. 0:27:07.384,0:27:11.366 I've been strongly opposed 0:27:11.390,0:27:17.853 to conducting an unplanned[br]global experiment 0:27:17.877,0:27:22.063 that could go wildly wrong, 0:27:22.087,0:27:25.825 and most are really[br]scared of that approach. 0:27:25.849,0:27:31.758 However, the term "geoengineering"[br]is a nuanced term that covers a lot. 0:27:31.782,0:27:37.696 If you want to paint roofs white[br]to reflect more energy 0:27:37.720,0:27:41.591 from the cityscapes, 0:27:41.615,0:27:46.210 that's not going to bring a danger[br]of a runaway effect, 0:27:46.234,0:27:47.828 and there are some other things 0:27:47.852,0:27:51.707 that are loosely called "geoengineering"[br]like that, which are fine. 0:27:51.731,0:27:57.034 But the idea of blocking out[br]the sun's rays -- 0:27:57.058,0:27:59.430 that's insane in my opinion. 0:27:59.454,0:28:03.049 Turns out plants need sunlight[br]for photosynthesis 0:28:03.073,0:28:05.404 and solar panels need sunlight 0:28:05.428,0:28:11.053 for producing electricity[br]from the sun's rays. 0:28:11.077,0:28:16.023 And the consequences of changing[br]everything we know 0:28:16.047,0:28:22.515 and pretending that the consequences[br]are going to precisely cancel out 0:28:22.539,0:28:28.401 the unplanned experiment of global warming[br]that we already have underway, 0:28:28.425,0:28:30.774 you know, there are[br]glitches in our thinking. 0:28:30.798,0:28:33.107 One of them is called[br]the "single solution bias," 0:28:33.131,0:28:36.813 and there are people[br]who just have a hunger to say, 0:28:36.837,0:28:40.368 "Well, that one solution, we just need[br]to latch on to that and do that, 0:28:40.392,0:28:42.029 and damn the consequences." 0:28:42.053,0:28:43.750 Well, it's nuts. 0:28:43.774,0:28:46.358 CA: But let me push back on this[br]just a little bit. 0:28:46.382,0:28:49.458 So let's say that we agree[br]that a single solution, 0:28:49.482,0:28:53.999 all-or-nothing attempt[br]at geoengineering is crazy. 0:28:54.023,0:28:59.191 But there are scenarios where the world[br]looks at emissions and just sees, 0:28:59.215,0:29:00.964 in 10 years' time, let's say, 0:29:00.988,0:29:03.778 that they are just not[br]coming down fast enough 0:29:03.802,0:29:07.844 and that we are at risk[br]of several other liftoff events 0:29:07.868,0:29:10.583 where this train will just[br]get away from us, 0:29:10.607,0:29:15.801 and we will see temperature rises[br]of three, four, five, six, seven degrees, 0:29:15.825,0:29:19.485 and all of civilization is at risk. 0:29:19.509,0:29:23.496 Surely, there is an approach[br]to geoengineering 0:29:23.520,0:29:27.296 that could be modeled, in a way,[br]on the way that we approach medicine. 0:29:27.320,0:29:30.728 Like, for hundreds of years,[br]we don't really understand the human body, 0:29:30.752,0:29:33.101 people would try interventions, 0:29:33.125,0:29:37.536 and some of them would work,[br]and some of them wouldn't. 0:29:37.560,0:29:40.518 No one says in medicine, "You know, 0:29:40.542,0:29:45.058 go in and take an all-or-nothing decision 0:29:45.082,0:29:46.634 on someone's life," 0:29:46.658,0:29:48.595 but they do say, "Let's try some stuff." 0:29:48.619,0:29:51.353 If an experiment can be reversible, 0:29:51.377,0:29:53.178 if it's plausible in the first place, 0:29:53.202,0:29:55.837 if there's reason to think[br]that it might work, 0:29:55.861,0:30:00.810 we actually owe it to[br]the future health of humanity 0:30:00.834,0:30:04.623 to try at least some types of tests[br]to see what could work. 0:30:04.647,0:30:08.607 So, small tests to see[br]whether, for example, 0:30:08.631,0:30:11.210 seeding of something in the ocean 0:30:11.234,0:30:15.400 might create, in a nonthreatening way, 0:30:15.424,0:30:16.881 carbon sinks. 0:30:16.905,0:30:21.488 Or maybe, rather than filling[br]the atmosphere with sulfur dioxide, 0:30:21.512,0:30:25.861 a smaller experiment[br]that was not that big a deal 0:30:25.885,0:30:29.756 to see whether, cost-effectively, you[br]could reduce the temperature a little bit. 0:30:29.780,0:30:32.205 Surely, that isn't completely crazy 0:30:32.229,0:30:34.745 and is at least something[br]we should be thinking about 0:30:34.769,0:30:37.101 in case these other measures don't work? 0:30:37.870,0:30:41.631 AG: Well, there've already been[br]such experiments 0:30:41.655,0:30:43.048 to seed the ocean 0:30:43.072,0:30:47.793 to see if that can increase[br]the uptake of CO2. 0:30:47.817,0:30:51.830 And the experiments[br]were an unmitigated failure, 0:30:51.854,0:30:55.122 as many predicted they would be. 0:30:55.146,0:30:59.066 But that, again, is the kind of approach 0:30:59.090,0:31:00.247 that's very different 0:31:00.271,0:31:04.493 from putting tinfoil strips[br]in the atmosphere orbiting the Earth. 0:31:04.517,0:31:10.295 That was the way that solar[br]geoengineering proposal started. 0:31:10.319,0:31:13.683 Now they're focusing on chalk, 0:31:13.707,0:31:17.669 so we have chalk dust all over everything. 0:31:17.693,0:31:24.174 But more serious than that is the fact[br]that it might not be reversible. 0:31:24.198,0:31:26.926 CA: But, Al, that's the rhetoric response. 0:31:26.950,0:31:30.077 The amount of dust that you need 0:31:30.101,0:31:33.383 to drop by a degree or two 0:31:33.407,0:31:35.926 wouldn't result in chalk dust[br]over everything. 0:31:35.950,0:31:37.753 It would be unbelievably -- 0:31:37.777,0:31:43.083 like, it would be less than the dust[br]that people experience every day, anyway. 0:31:43.107,0:31:44.842 I mean, I just -- 0:31:46.220,0:31:50.680 AG: First of all, I don't know[br]how you do a small experiment 0:31:50.704,0:31:52.224 in the atmosphere. 0:31:52.248,0:31:54.283 And secondly, 0:31:54.307,0:31:57.672 if we were to take that approach, 0:31:57.696,0:32:01.621 we would have to steadily[br]increase the amount 0:32:01.645,0:32:03.770 of whatever substance they decided. 0:32:03.794,0:32:07.385 We'd have to increase[br]it every single year, 0:32:07.409,0:32:09.197 and if we ever stopped, 0:32:09.221,0:32:14.701 then there would be a sudden snapback, 0:32:14.725,0:32:20.045 like "The Picture of Dorian Gray,"[br]that old book and movie, 0:32:20.069,0:32:24.985 where suddenly all of the things[br]caught up with you at once. 0:32:25.009,0:32:29.401 The fact that anyone is even[br]considering these approaches, Chris, 0:32:29.425,0:32:33.855 is a measure of a feeling of desperation 0:32:33.879,0:32:38.137 that some have begun to feel, 0:32:38.161,0:32:40.105 which I understand, 0:32:40.129,0:32:47.129 but I don't think it should drive us[br]toward these reckless experiments. 0:32:47.153,0:32:51.496 And by the way, using your analogy[br]to experimental cancer treatments, 0:32:51.520,0:32:52.787 for example, 0:32:52.811,0:32:56.049 you usually get informed consent[br]from the patient. 0:32:56.073,0:32:59.592 Getting informed consent[br]from 7.8 billion people 0:32:59.616,0:33:02.296 who have no voice and no say, 0:33:02.320,0:33:07.397 who are subject to the potentially[br]catastrophic consequences 0:33:07.421,0:33:11.841 of this wackadoodle proposal[br]that somebody comes up with 0:33:11.865,0:33:15.805 to try to rearrange[br]the entire Earth's atmosphere 0:33:15.829,0:33:19.042 and hope and pretend[br]that it's going to cancel out, 0:33:19.066,0:33:24.002 the fact that we're putting[br]152 million tons 0:33:24.026,0:33:26.645 of heat-trapping, manmade[br]global warming pollution 0:33:26.669,0:33:28.683 into the sky every day. 0:33:28.707,0:33:31.793 That's what's really insane. 0:33:31.817,0:33:34.361 A scientist decades ago 0:33:34.385,0:33:35.810 compared it this way. 0:33:35.834,0:33:39.110 He said, if you had two people[br]on a sinking boat 0:33:39.134,0:33:41.530 and one of them says, 0:33:41.554,0:33:46.527 "You know, we could probably use[br]some mirrors to signal to shore 0:33:46.551,0:33:48.242 to get them to build 0:33:48.266,0:33:50.725 a sophisticated wave-generating machine 0:33:50.749,0:33:54.872 that will cancel out[br]the rocking of the boat 0:33:54.896,0:33:56.772 by these guys in the back of the boat." 0:33:56.796,0:33:59.219 Or you could get them[br]to stop rocking the boat. 0:33:59.243,0:34:04.135 And that's what we need to do.[br]We need to stop what's causing the crisis. 0:34:04.159,0:34:05.676 CA: Yeah, that's a great story, 0:34:05.700,0:34:09.581 but if the effort to stop the people[br]rocking in the back of the boat 0:34:09.605,0:34:13.871 is as complex as the scientific[br]proposal you just outlined, 0:34:13.895,0:34:16.902 whereas the experiment to stop the waves 0:34:16.926,0:34:20.326 is actually as simple as telling[br]the people to stop rocking the boat, 0:34:20.350,0:34:21.609 that story changes. 0:34:21.633,0:34:26.010 And I think you're right that[br]the issue of informed consent 0:34:26.034,0:34:27.575 is a really challenging one, 0:34:27.599,0:34:29.580 but, I mean, no one gave informed consent 0:34:29.604,0:34:34.009 to do all of the other things[br]we're doing to the atmosphere. 0:34:34.033,0:34:37.526 And I agree that the moral hazard issue 0:34:37.550,0:34:39.471 is worrying, 0:34:39.495,0:34:43.677 that if we became dependent[br]on geoengineering 0:34:43.701,0:34:46.690 and took away our efforts to do the rest, 0:34:46.714,0:34:48.034 that would be tragic. 0:34:48.058,0:34:49.341 It just seems like, 0:34:49.365,0:34:51.829 I wish it was possible[br]to have a nuanced debate 0:34:51.853,0:34:53.482 of people saying, you know what, 0:34:53.506,0:34:55.966 there's multiple dials[br]to a very complex problem. 0:34:55.990,0:34:59.098 We're going to have to adjust[br]several of them very, very carefully 0:34:59.122,0:35:02.170 and keep talking to each other. 0:35:02.194,0:35:03.754 Wouldn't that be a goal 0:35:03.778,0:35:06.333 to just try and have[br]a more nuanced debate about this, 0:35:06.357,0:35:08.797 rather than all of that geoengineering 0:35:08.821,0:35:10.058 can't work? 0:35:10.995,0:35:14.171 AG: Well, I've said some of it, 0:35:14.195,0:35:16.651 you know, the benign forms[br]that I've mentioned, 0:35:16.675,0:35:18.696 I'm not ruling those out. 0:35:18.720,0:35:22.801 But blocking the Sun's rays[br]from the Earth, 0:35:22.825,0:35:28.639 not only do you affect 7.8 billion people, 0:35:28.663,0:35:30.658 you affect the plants 0:35:30.682,0:35:32.215 and the animals 0:35:32.239,0:35:33.928 and the ocean currents 0:35:33.952,0:35:35.637 and the wind currents 0:35:35.661,0:35:38.555 and natural processes 0:35:38.579,0:35:45.417 that we're in danger[br]of disrupting even more. 0:35:45.441,0:35:52.304 Techno-optimism is something[br]I've engaged in in the past, 0:35:52.328,0:35:59.328 but to latch on to some[br]brand-new technological solution 0:35:59.352,0:36:03.467 to rework the entire Earth's[br]natural system 0:36:03.491,0:36:06.444 because somebody thinks he's clever enough 0:36:06.468,0:36:10.391 to do it in a way[br]that precisely cancels out 0:36:10.415,0:36:14.281 the consequences of using[br]the atmosphere as an open sewer 0:36:14.305,0:36:16.684 for heat-trapping manmade gases. 0:36:16.708,0:36:20.542 It's much more important to stop using[br]the atmosphere as an open sewer. 0:36:20.566,0:36:22.523 That's what the problem is. 0:36:22.547,0:36:26.369 CA: All right, well, we'll agree that that[br]is the most important thing, for sure, 0:36:26.393,0:36:27.564 and speaking of which, 0:36:27.588,0:36:30.999 do you believe the world[br]needs carbon pricing, 0:36:31.023,0:36:33.973 and is there any prospect[br]for getting there? 0:36:35.263,0:36:39.744 AG: Yes. Yes to both questions. 0:36:39.768,0:36:43.109 For decades, almost every economist 0:36:43.133,0:36:45.626 who is asked about the climate crisis 0:36:45.650,0:36:48.163 says, "Well, we just need[br]to put a price on carbon." 0:36:48.187,0:36:53.076 And I have certainly been[br]in favor of that approach. 0:36:53.100,0:36:54.296 But it is daunting. 0:36:54.320,0:36:59.104 Nevertheless, there are[br]43 jurisdictions around the world 0:36:59.128,0:37:02.757 that already have a price on carbon. 0:37:02.781,0:37:04.064 We're seeing it in Europe. 0:37:04.088,0:37:07.612 They finally straightened out[br]their carbon pricing mechanism. 0:37:07.636,0:37:10.717 It's an emissions trading version of it. 0:37:10.741,0:37:13.902 We have places that have put[br]a tax on carbon. 0:37:13.926,0:37:17.533 That's the approach the economists prefer. 0:37:17.557,0:37:21.819 China is beginning to implement[br]its national emissions trading program. 0:37:21.843,0:37:27.172 California and quite a few other states[br]in the US are already doing it. 0:37:27.196,0:37:32.834 It can be given back to people[br]in a revenue-neutral way. 0:37:32.858,0:37:36.947 But the opposition to it, Chris,[br]which you've noted, 0:37:36.971,0:37:42.263 is impressive enough[br]that we do have to take other approaches, 0:37:42.287,0:37:46.129 and I would say most climate activists[br]are now saying, look, 0:37:46.153,0:37:48.998 let's don't make the best[br]the enemy of the better. 0:37:49.022,0:37:51.050 There are other ways to do this as well. 0:37:51.074,0:37:56.069 We need every solution[br]we can rationally employ, 0:37:56.093,0:38:00.322 including by regulation. 0:38:00.346,0:38:07.156 And often, when the political difficulty[br]of a proposal becomes too difficult 0:38:07.180,0:38:09.595 in a market-oriented approach, 0:38:09.619,0:38:13.161 the fallback is with regulation, 0:38:13.185,0:38:16.764 and it's been given[br]a bad name, regulation, 0:38:16.788,0:38:19.333 but many places are doing it. 0:38:19.357,0:38:22.139 I mentioned phasing out[br]internal combustion engines. 0:38:22.163,0:38:24.258 That's an example. 0:38:24.282,0:38:28.474 There are 160 cities in the US 0:38:28.498,0:38:33.226 that have already by regulation ordered[br]that within a date certain, 0:38:33.250,0:38:38.573 100 percent of all their electricity[br]will have to come from renewable sources. 0:38:38.597,0:38:44.044 And again, the market forces that[br]are driving the cost of renewable energy 0:38:44.068,0:38:47.919 and sustainability solutions[br]ever downward, 0:38:47.943,0:38:50.488 that gives us the wind at our back. 0:38:50.512,0:38:52.631 This is working in our favor. 0:38:53.779,0:38:56.147 CA: I mean, the pushback on carbon pricing 0:38:56.171,0:38:59.447 often goes further from parts[br]of the environmental movement, 0:38:59.471,0:39:02.564 which is to a pushback[br]on the role of business in general. 0:39:02.588,0:39:05.291 Business is actually -- well,[br]capitalism -- is blamed 0:39:05.315,0:39:07.370 for the climate crisis 0:39:07.394,0:39:11.182 because of unrelenting growth, 0:39:12.960,0:39:17.153 to the point where many people[br]don't trust business 0:39:17.177,0:39:19.793 to be part of the solution. 0:39:19.817,0:39:22.790 The only way to go forward[br]is to regulate, 0:39:22.814,0:39:24.834 to force businesses to do the right thing. 0:39:24.858,0:39:28.823 Do you think that business[br]has to be part of the solution? 0:39:30.371,0:39:31.535 AG: Well, definitely, 0:39:31.559,0:39:37.064 because the allocation of capital[br]needed to solve this crisis 0:39:37.088,0:39:41.664 is greater than what[br]governments can handle. 0:39:41.688,0:39:44.822 And businesses are beginning, 0:39:44.846,0:39:49.891 many businesses are beginning[br]to play a very constructive role. 0:39:49.915,0:39:53.617 They're getting a demand that they do so 0:39:53.641,0:39:55.841 from their customers,[br]from their investors, 0:39:55.865,0:39:57.815 from their boards, 0:39:57.839,0:40:00.555 from their executive teams,[br]from their families. 0:40:00.579,0:40:02.083 And by the way, 0:40:02.107,0:40:06.297 the rising generation is demanding[br]a brighter future, 0:40:06.321,0:40:09.844 and when CEOs interview[br]potential new hires, 0:40:09.868,0:40:13.804 they find that the new hires[br]are interviewing them. 0:40:13.828,0:40:16.466 They want to make a nice income, 0:40:16.490,0:40:20.121 but they want to be able to tell[br]their family and friends and peers 0:40:20.145,0:40:24.061 that they're doing something[br]more than just making money. 0:40:24.085,0:40:29.255 One illustration of how[br]this new generation is changing, Chris: 0:40:29.279,0:40:33.007 there are 65 colleges in the US right now 0:40:33.031,0:40:37.655 where the College Young Republican Clubs[br]have joined together 0:40:37.679,0:40:40.955 to jointly demand that[br]the Republican National Committee 0:40:40.979,0:40:42.926 change its policy on climate, 0:40:42.950,0:40:46.156 lest they lose that entire generation. 0:40:46.180,0:40:48.649 This is a global phenomenon. 0:40:48.673,0:40:52.479 The Greta Generation is now leading this 0:40:52.503,0:40:55.076 in so many ways, 0:40:55.100,0:40:57.805 and if you look at the polling, 0:40:57.829,0:41:01.807 again, the vast majority[br]of young Republicans 0:41:01.831,0:41:05.115 are demanding a change on climate policy. 0:41:05.139,0:41:08.906 This is really a movement 0:41:08.930,0:41:11.441 that is building still. 0:41:12.302,0:41:14.131 CA: I was going to ask you about that, 0:41:14.155,0:41:17.322 because one of the most painful things[br]over the last 20 years 0:41:17.346,0:41:20.172 has just been how climate[br]has been politicized, 0:41:20.196,0:41:22.907 certainly in the US. 0:41:22.931,0:41:26.212 You've probably felt yourself[br]at the heart of that a lot of the time, 0:41:26.236,0:41:28.023 with people attacking you personally 0:41:28.047,0:41:32.086 in the most merciless,[br]and unfair ways, often. 0:41:32.110,0:41:36.785 Do you really see signs[br]that that might be changing, 0:41:36.809,0:41:38.460 led by the next generation? 0:41:39.285,0:41:42.206 AG: Yeah, there's no question about it. 0:41:42.230,0:41:44.101 I don't want to rely on polls too much. 0:41:44.125,0:41:45.544 I've mentioned them already. 0:41:45.568,0:41:47.353 But there was a new one that came out 0:41:47.377,0:41:52.044 that looked at the wavering[br]Trump supporters, 0:41:52.068,0:41:54.272 those who supported him[br]strongly in the past 0:41:54.296,0:41:55.580 and want to do so again. 0:41:55.604,0:41:59.037 The number one issue,[br]surprisingly to some, 0:41:59.061,0:42:00.842 that is giving them pause, 0:42:00.866,0:42:06.129 is the craziness of President Trump[br]and his administration on climate. 0:42:06.153,0:42:11.686 We're seeing big majorities[br]of the Republican Party overall 0:42:11.710,0:42:15.721 saying that they're ready[br]to start exploring some real solutions 0:42:15.745,0:42:17.043 to the climate crisis. 0:42:17.067,0:42:20.136 I think that we're really getting there,[br]no question about it. 0:42:20.866,0:42:23.915 CA: I mean, you've been[br]the figurehead for raising this issue, 0:42:23.939,0:42:26.992 and you happen to be a Democrat. 0:42:27.680,0:42:31.564 Is there anything[br]that you can personally do 0:42:31.588,0:42:34.434 to -- I don't know -- to open the tent,[br]to welcome people, 0:42:34.458,0:42:37.680 to try and say, "This is[br]beyond politics, dear friends"? 0:42:38.970,0:42:41.733 AG: Yeah. Well, I've tried[br]all of those things, 0:42:41.757,0:42:47.919 and maybe it's made a little[br]positive difference. 0:42:47.943,0:42:50.717 I've worked with[br]the Republicans extensively. 0:42:50.741,0:42:55.005 And, you know, well after[br]I left the White House, 0:42:55.029,0:42:58.883 I had Newt Gingrich and Pat Robertson 0:42:58.907,0:43:01.028 and other prominent Republicans 0:43:01.052,0:43:03.667 appear on national TV ads with me 0:43:03.691,0:43:06.510 saying we've got to solve[br]the climate crisis. 0:43:06.534,0:43:10.996 But the petroleum industry 0:43:11.020,0:43:14.912 has really doubled down 0:43:14.936,0:43:18.329 enforcing discipline[br]within the Republican Party. 0:43:18.353,0:43:21.778 I mean, look at the attacks[br]they've launched against the Pope 0:43:21.802,0:43:25.080 when he came out with his encyclical 0:43:25.104,0:43:27.322 and was demonized, 0:43:27.346,0:43:28.693 not by all for sure, 0:43:28.717,0:43:33.355 but there were hawks[br]in the anti-climate movement 0:43:33.379,0:43:39.329 who immediately started[br]training their guns on Pope Francis, 0:43:39.353,0:43:42.126 and there are many other examples. 0:43:42.150,0:43:43.552 They enforce discipline 0:43:43.576,0:43:46.637 and try to make it a partisan issue, 0:43:46.661,0:43:48.665 even as Democrats reach out 0:43:48.689,0:43:51.350 to try to make it bipartisan. 0:43:51.374,0:43:55.441 I totally agree with you[br]that it should not be a partisan issue. 0:43:55.465,0:43:57.566 It didn't use to be, 0:43:57.590,0:44:01.580 but it's been artificially[br]weaponized as an issue. 0:44:01.604,0:44:04.106 CA: I mean, the CEOs[br]of oil companies also have kids 0:44:04.130,0:44:06.882 who are talking to them. 0:44:06.906,0:44:08.987 It feels like some of them are moving 0:44:09.011,0:44:10.891 and are trying to invest 0:44:10.915,0:44:14.339 and trying to find ways[br]of being part of the future. 0:44:14.363,0:44:15.722 Do you see signs of that? 0:44:16.992,0:44:18.152 AG: Yeah. 0:44:18.176,0:44:23.236 I think that business leaders,[br]including in the oil and gas companies, 0:44:23.260,0:44:26.781 are hearing from their families. 0:44:26.805,0:44:28.931 They're hearing from their friends. 0:44:28.955,0:44:31.785 They're hearing from their employees. 0:44:31.809,0:44:35.422 And, by the way, we've seen[br]in the tech industry 0:44:35.446,0:44:38.861 some mass walkouts by employees 0:44:38.885,0:44:42.991 who are demanding[br]that some of the tech companies 0:44:43.015,0:44:44.769 do more and get serious. 0:44:44.793,0:44:46.234 I'm so proud of Apple. 0:44:46.258,0:44:49.291 Forgive me for parenthetically[br]praising Apple. 0:44:49.315,0:44:52.415 You know, I'm on the board,[br]but I'm such a big fan of Tim Cook 0:44:52.439,0:44:54.690 and my colleagues at Apple. 0:44:54.714,0:44:57.255 It's an example of a tech company 0:44:57.279,0:44:59.549 that's really doing fantastic things. 0:44:59.573,0:45:01.279 And there's some others as well. 0:45:01.303,0:45:04.744 There are others in many industries. 0:45:04.768,0:45:08.668 But the pressures on[br]the oil and gas companies 0:45:08.692,0:45:10.707 are quite extraordinary. 0:45:10.731,0:45:15.337 You know, BP just wrote down[br]12 and a half billion dollars' worth 0:45:15.361,0:45:19.112 of oil and gas assets 0:45:19.136,0:45:23.084 and said that they're never[br]going to see the light of day. 0:45:23.108,0:45:28.564 Two-thirds of the fossil fuels[br]that have already been discovered 0:45:28.588,0:45:32.545 cannot be burned and will not be burned. 0:45:32.569,0:45:38.322 And so that's a big economic risk[br]to the global economy, 0:45:38.346,0:45:40.126 like the subprime mortgage crisis. 0:45:40.150,0:45:44.849 We've got 22 trillion dollars[br]of subprime carbon assets, 0:45:44.873,0:45:47.277 and just yesterday,[br]there was a major report 0:45:47.301,0:45:50.222 that the fracking industry in the US 0:45:50.246,0:45:53.834 is seeing now a wave of bankruptcies 0:45:53.858,0:45:57.473 because the price[br]of the fracked gas and oil 0:45:57.497,0:46:03.113 has fallen below levels[br]that make them economic. 0:46:03.137,0:46:05.276 CA: Is the shorthand[br]of what's happened there 0:46:05.300,0:46:10.263 that electric cars and electric[br]technologies and solar and so forth 0:46:10.287,0:46:13.139 have helped drive down the price of oil 0:46:13.163,0:46:15.365 to the point where[br]huge amounts of the reserves 0:46:15.389,0:46:18.700 just can't be developed profitably? 0:46:19.509,0:46:21.383 AG: Yes, that's it. 0:46:21.407,0:46:23.583 That's mainly it. 0:46:23.607,0:46:30.590 The projections for energy sources[br]in the next several years 0:46:30.614,0:46:34.166 uniformly predict that electricity[br]from wind and solar 0:46:34.190,0:46:37.477 is going to continue to plummet in price, 0:46:37.501,0:46:42.360 and therefore using gas or coal 0:46:42.384,0:46:48.044 to make steam to turn the turbines 0:46:48.068,0:46:49.876 is just not going to be economical. 0:46:49.900,0:46:53.406 Similarly, the electrification[br]of the transportation sector 0:46:53.430,0:46:56.383 is having the same effect. 0:46:56.407,0:47:01.012 Some are also looking at the trend 0:47:01.036,0:47:04.274 in national, regional[br]and local governance. 0:47:04.298,0:47:05.660 I mentioned this before, 0:47:05.684,0:47:10.076 but they're predicting[br]a very different energy future. 0:47:10.100,0:47:12.262 But let me come back, Chris, 0:47:12.286,0:47:14.288 because we talked about business leaders. 0:47:14.312,0:47:18.256 I think you were getting in a question[br]a moment ago about capitalism itself, 0:47:18.280,0:47:20.066 and I do want to say a word on that, 0:47:20.090,0:47:22.257 because there are a lot of people who say 0:47:22.281,0:47:25.796 maybe capitalism is the basic problem. 0:47:25.820,0:47:32.323 I think the current form of capitalism[br]we have is desperately in need of reform. 0:47:32.347,0:47:35.895 The short-term outlook is often mentioned, 0:47:35.919,0:47:40.191 but the way we measure[br]what is of value to us 0:47:40.215,0:47:45.239 is also at the heart of the crisis[br]of modern capitalism. 0:47:45.263,0:47:49.123 Now, capitalism is at the base[br]of every successful economy, 0:47:49.147,0:47:50.959 and it balances supply and demand, 0:47:50.983,0:47:53.645 unlocks a higher fraction[br]of the human potential, 0:47:53.669,0:47:55.915 and it's not going anywhere, 0:47:55.939,0:47:59.074 but it needs to be reformed, 0:47:59.098,0:48:01.519 because the way we measure[br]what's valuable now 0:48:01.543,0:48:04.587 ignores so-called negative externalities 0:48:04.611,0:48:06.274 like pollution. 0:48:06.298,0:48:09.420 It also ignores positive externalities 0:48:09.444,0:48:12.179 like investments[br]in education and health care, 0:48:12.203,0:48:14.402 mental health care, family services. 0:48:14.426,0:48:20.780 It ignores the depletion of resources[br]like groundwater and topsoil 0:48:20.804,0:48:23.422 and the web of living species. 0:48:23.446,0:48:27.934 And it ignores the distribution[br]of incomes and net worths, 0:48:27.958,0:48:32.487 so when GDP goes up, people cheer, 0:48:32.511,0:48:37.033 two percent, three percent -- wow! --[br]four percent, and they think, "Great!" 0:48:37.057,0:48:40.479 But it's accompanied[br]by vast increases in pollution, 0:48:40.503,0:48:44.769 chronic underinvestment in public goods, 0:48:44.793,0:48:49.160 the depletion of irreplaceable[br]natural resources, 0:48:49.184,0:48:54.628 and the worst inequality crisis we've seen[br]in more than a hundred years 0:48:54.652,0:48:58.458 that is threatening the future[br]of both capitalism and democracy. 0:48:58.482,0:49:00.879 So we have to change it.[br]We have to reform it. 0:49:01.776,0:49:04.647 CA: So reform capitalism,[br]but don't throw it out. 0:49:04.671,0:49:07.388 We're going to need it as a tool[br]as we go forward 0:49:07.412,0:49:09.051 if we're to solve this. 0:49:09.075,0:49:11.772 AG: Yeah, I think that's right,[br]and just one other point: 0:49:11.796,0:49:15.701 the worst environmental abuses[br]in the last hundred years 0:49:15.725,0:49:19.807 have been in jurisdictions[br]that experimented during the 20th century 0:49:19.831,0:49:23.877 with the alternatives to capitalism[br]on the left and right. 0:49:24.408,0:49:26.121 CA: Interesting. All right. 0:49:26.145,0:49:28.409 Two last community questions quickly. 0:49:32.063,0:49:33.672 Chadburn Blomquist: 0:49:33.696,0:49:37.137 "As you are reading the tea leaves[br]of the impact of the current pandemic, 0:49:37.161,0:49:40.604 what do you think in regard to[br]our response to combatting climate change 0:49:40.628,0:49:42.833 will be the most impactful[br]lesson learned?" 0:49:43.878,0:49:46.199 AG: Boy, that's a very[br]thoughtful question, 0:49:46.223,0:49:50.869 and I wish my answer could rise[br]to the same level on short notice. 0:49:50.893,0:49:53.060 I would say first, 0:49:53.084,0:49:55.491 don't ignore the scientists. 0:49:55.515,0:49:58.033 When there is virtual unanimity 0:49:58.057,0:50:01.468 among the scientific and medical experts, 0:50:01.492,0:50:02.688 pay attention. 0:50:02.712,0:50:05.746 Don't let some politician dissuade you. 0:50:05.770,0:50:08.680 I think President Trump is slowly learning 0:50:08.704,0:50:12.425 that's it's kind of difficult[br]to gaslight a virus. 0:50:12.449,0:50:14.801 He tried to gaslight the virus in Tulsa. 0:50:14.825,0:50:17.007 It didn't come off very well, 0:50:17.031,0:50:22.872 and tragically, he decided[br]to recklessly roll the dice a month ago 0:50:22.896,0:50:27.027 and ignore the recommendations[br]for people to wear masks 0:50:27.051,0:50:28.291 and to socially distance 0:50:28.315,0:50:30.072 and to do the other things, 0:50:30.096,0:50:34.388 and I think that lesson[br]is beginning to take hold 0:50:34.412,0:50:35.691 in a much stronger way. 0:50:35.715,0:50:37.271 But beyond that, Chris, 0:50:37.295,0:50:41.715 I think that this period of time[br]has been characterized 0:50:41.739,0:50:47.252 by one of the most profound opportunities 0:50:47.276,0:50:50.923 for people to rethink[br]the patterns of their lives 0:50:50.947,0:50:56.864 and to consider whether or not[br]we can't do a lot of things better 0:50:56.888,0:50:58.393 and differently. 0:50:58.417,0:51:02.834 And I think that this rising[br]generation I mentioned before 0:51:02.858,0:51:05.141 has been even more profoundly affected 0:51:05.165,0:51:06.479 by this interlude, 0:51:06.503,0:51:08.360 which I hope ends soon, 0:51:08.384,0:51:10.108 but I hope the lessons endure. 0:51:10.132,0:51:11.635 I expect they will. 0:51:12.240,0:51:16.123 CA: Yeah, it's amazing how many things[br]you can do without emitting carbon, 0:51:16.147,0:51:17.869 that we've been forced to do. 0:51:17.893,0:51:19.879 Let's have one more question here. 0:51:23.052,0:51:26.064 Frank Hennessy: "Are you encouraged[br]by the ability of people 0:51:26.088,0:51:28.980 to quickly adapt to the new[br]normal due to COVID-19 0:51:29.004,0:51:32.221 as evidence that people can and will[br]change their habits 0:51:32.245,0:51:34.225 to respond to climate change?" 0:51:35.898,0:51:42.018 AG: Yes, but I think we have[br]to keep in mind 0:51:42.042,0:51:45.357 that there is a crisis within this crisis. 0:51:45.381,0:51:51.871 The impact on the African American[br]community, which I mentioned before, 0:51:51.895,0:51:55.182 on the Latinx community, 0:51:55.206,0:51:56.487 Indigenous peoples. 0:51:56.511,0:51:59.463 The highest infection rate[br]is in the Navajo Nation right now. 0:51:59.487,0:52:04.582 So some of these questions[br]appear differently 0:52:04.606,0:52:10.464 to those who are really[br]getting the brunt of this crisis, 0:52:10.488,0:52:17.441 and it is unacceptable[br]that we allow this to continue. 0:52:17.853,0:52:21.333 It feels one way to you and me 0:52:21.357,0:52:24.888 and perhaps to many in our audience today, 0:52:24.912,0:52:27.724 but for low-income communities of color, 0:52:27.748,0:52:29.818 it's an entirely different crisis, 0:52:29.842,0:52:31.887 and we owe it to them 0:52:31.911,0:52:34.097 and to all of us 0:52:34.121,0:52:37.994 to get busy and to start[br]using the best science 0:52:38.018,0:52:40.188 and solve this pandemic. 0:52:40.212,0:52:42.988 You know the phrase "pandemic economics." 0:52:43.012,0:52:45.724 Somebody said, the first principle[br]of pandemic economics 0:52:45.748,0:52:47.433 is take care of the pandemic, 0:52:47.457,0:52:50.558 and we're not doing that yet. 0:52:50.582,0:52:53.310 We're seeing the president[br]try to goose the economy 0:52:53.334,0:52:54.653 for his reelection, 0:52:54.677,0:52:56.185 never mind the prediction 0:52:56.209,0:52:59.852 of tens of thousands[br]of additional American deaths, 0:52:59.876,0:53:02.574 and that is just[br]unforgivable in my opinion. 0:53:03.472,0:53:05.856 CA: Thank you, Frank. 0:53:06.336,0:53:10.455 So Al, you, along with others[br]in the community played a key role 0:53:10.479,0:53:16.950 in encouraging TED to launch[br]this initiative called "Countdown." 0:53:16.974,0:53:18.760 Thank you for that, 0:53:18.784,0:53:22.196 and I guess this conversation[br]is continuing among many of us. 0:53:22.220,0:53:25.837 If you're interested[br]in climate, watching this, 0:53:25.861,0:53:30.164 check out the Countdown website, 0:53:30.188,0:53:31.942 countdown.ted.com, 0:53:31.966,0:53:35.616 and be part of 10/10/2020, 0:53:35.640,0:53:40.226 when we are trying[br]to put out an alert to the world 0:53:40.250,0:53:41.536 that climate can't wait, 0:53:41.560,0:53:43.265 that it really matters, 0:53:43.289,0:53:45.969 and there's going to be[br]some amazing content 0:53:45.993,0:53:48.364 free to the world on that day. 0:53:48.388,0:53:52.901 Thank you, Al, for your inspiration[br]and support in doing that. 0:53:52.925,0:53:55.272 I wonder whether you[br]could end today's session 0:53:55.296,0:53:57.990 just by painting us a picture, 0:53:58.014,0:54:02.948 like how might things roll out[br]over the next decade or so? 0:54:02.972,0:54:06.836 Just tell us whether there is still[br]a story of hope here. 0:54:07.604,0:54:08.935 AG: I'd be glad to. 0:54:08.959,0:54:11.838 I've got to get one plug in.[br]I'll make it brief. 0:54:11.862,0:54:15.632 July 18 through July 26, 0:54:15.656,0:54:19.951 The Climate Reality Project[br]is having a global training. 0:54:19.975,0:54:22.559 We've already had 8,000 people register. 0:54:22.583,0:54:25.534 You can go to climatereality.com. 0:54:25.558,0:54:27.386 Now, a bright future. 0:54:27.410,0:54:30.973 It begins with all of the kinds of efforts 0:54:30.997,0:54:34.187 that you've thrown yourself into[br]in organizing Countdown. 0:54:34.211,0:54:37.385 Chris, you and your team have been amazing 0:54:37.409,0:54:40.228 to work with, 0:54:40.252,0:54:44.666 and I'm so excited[br]about the Countdown project. 0:54:44.690,0:54:48.355 TED has an unparalleled ability 0:54:48.379,0:54:50.756 to spread ideas that are worth spreading, 0:54:50.780,0:54:52.718 to raise consciousness, 0:54:52.742,0:54:54.831 to enlighten people around the world, 0:54:54.855,0:54:59.104 and it's needed for climate[br]and the solutions to the climate crisis 0:54:59.128,0:55:01.388 like it's never been needed before, 0:55:01.412,0:55:05.095 and I just want to thank you[br]for what you personally are doing 0:55:05.119,0:55:08.979 to organize this fantastic[br]Countdown program. 0:55:11.130,0:55:12.312 CA: Thank you. 0:55:12.336,0:55:14.241 And the world? Are we going to do this? 0:55:14.265,0:55:16.747 Do you think that humanity[br]is going to pull this off 0:55:16.771,0:55:20.345 and that our grandchildren 0:55:20.369,0:55:22.192 are going to have beautiful lives 0:55:22.216,0:55:24.788 where they can celebrate nature[br]and not spend every day 0:55:24.812,0:55:28.374 in fear of the next tornado or tsunami? 0:55:29.303,0:55:32.893 AG: I am optimistic that we will do it, 0:55:32.917,0:55:36.532 but the answer is in our hands. 0:55:36.556,0:55:41.299 We have seen dark times[br]in periods of the past, 0:55:41.323,0:55:44.593 and we have risen to meet the challenge. 0:55:44.617,0:55:49.763 We have limitations of our long[br]evolutionary heritage 0:55:49.787,0:55:51.512 and elements of our culture, 0:55:51.536,0:55:55.423 but we also have the ability[br]to transcend our limitations, 0:55:55.447,0:55:56.796 and when the chips are down, 0:55:56.820,0:55:59.355 and when survival is at stake 0:55:59.379,0:56:02.153 and when our children[br]and future generations are at stake, 0:56:02.177,0:56:07.463 we're capable of more than we sometimes[br]allow ourselves to think we can do. 0:56:07.487,0:56:09.509 This is such a time. 0:56:09.533,0:56:12.729 I believe we will rise to the occasion, 0:56:12.753,0:56:14.905 and we will create a bright, 0:56:14.929,0:56:18.991 clean, prosperous, just and fair future. 0:56:19.015,0:56:21.048 I believe it with all my heart. 0:56:22.339,0:56:25.989 CA: Al Gore, thank you[br]for your life of work, 0:56:26.013,0:56:28.054 for all you've done to elevate this issue 0:56:28.078,0:56:29.977 and for spending this time with us now. 0:56:30.001,0:56:31.167 Thank you. 0:56:31.191,0:56:32.477 AG: Back at you. Thank you.