0:00:00.678,0:00:03.274
One summer afternoon in 2013,

0:00:03.298,0:00:06.426
DC police detained, questioned[br]and searched a man

0:00:06.450,0:00:09.542
who appeared suspicious[br]and potentially dangerous.

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This wasn't what I was wearing[br]the day of the detention, to be fair,

0:00:13.785,0:00:15.608
but I have a picture of that as well.

0:00:15.632,0:00:18.328
I know it's very frightening --[br]try to remain calm.

0:00:18.352,0:00:19.445
(Laughter)

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At this time, I was interning

0:00:21.915,0:00:24.647
at the Public Defender Service[br]in Washington DC,

0:00:24.671,0:00:27.090
and I was visiting[br]a police station for work.

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I was on my way out,

0:00:28.298,0:00:30.290
and before I could make it to my car,

0:00:30.314,0:00:32.615
two police cars pulled up[br]to block my exit,

0:00:32.639,0:00:34.970
and an officer approached me from behind.

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He told me to stop, take my backpack off

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and put my hands on the police car[br]parked next to us.

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About a dozen officers[br]then gathered near us.

0:00:43.819,0:00:45.066
All of them had handguns,

0:00:45.090,0:00:46.430
some had assault rifles.

0:00:46.454,0:00:48.188
They rifled through my backpack.

0:00:48.212,0:00:49.617
They patted me down.

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They took pictures of me[br]spread on the police car,

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and they laughed.

0:00:53.206,0:00:54.746
And as all this was happening --

0:00:54.770,0:00:58.020
as I was on the police car trying[br]to ignore the shaking in my legs,

0:00:58.044,0:01:00.379
trying to think clearly[br]about what I should do --

0:01:00.403,0:01:02.402
something stuck out to me as odd.

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When I look at myself in this photo,

0:01:04.444,0:01:06.279
if I were to describe myself,

0:01:06.303,0:01:08.090
I think I'd say something like,

0:01:08.114,0:01:13.503
"19-year-old Indian male,[br]bright T-shirt, wearing glasses."

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But they weren't including[br]any of these details.

0:01:15.832,0:01:18.082
Into their police radios[br]as they described me,

0:01:18.106,0:01:20.738
they kept saying, "Middle Eastern[br]male with a backpack.

0:01:20.762,0:01:22.791
Middle Eastern male with a backpack."

0:01:22.815,0:01:25.888
And this description carried on[br]into their police reports.

0:01:26.419,0:01:31.025
I never expected to be described[br]by my own government in these terms:

0:01:31.049,0:01:32.307
"lurking,"

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"nefarious,"

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"terrorist."

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And the detention dragged on like this.

0:01:38.983,0:01:42.861
They sent dogs trained to smell explosives[br]to sweep the area I'd been in.

0:01:42.885,0:01:46.312
They called the federal government[br]to see if I was on any watch lists.

0:01:46.336,0:01:49.187
They sent a couple of detectives[br]to cross-examine me on why,

0:01:49.211,0:01:51.327
if I claimed I had nothing to hide,

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I wouldn't consent to a search of my car.

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And I could see[br]they weren't happy with me,

0:01:55.506,0:01:58.589
but I felt I had no way of knowing[br]what they'd want to do next.

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At one point, the officer[br]who patted me down

0:02:01.534,0:02:05.064
scanned the side of the police station[br]to see where the security camera was

0:02:05.088,0:02:07.960
to see how much of this[br]was being recorded.

0:02:07.984,0:02:09.152
And when he did that,

0:02:09.176,0:02:12.646
it really sank in how completely[br]I was at their mercy.

0:02:12.670,0:02:15.093
I think we're all normalized[br]from a young age

0:02:15.117,0:02:18.870
to the idea of police officers[br]and arrests and handcuffs,

0:02:18.894,0:02:22.836
so it's easy to forget how demeaning[br]and coercive a thing it is

0:02:22.860,0:02:25.765
to seize control over[br]another person's body.

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I know it sounds like[br]the point of my story

0:02:27.858,0:02:30.300
is how badly treated I was[br]because of my race --

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and yes, I don't think I would've been[br]detained if I were white.

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But actually, what I have in mind[br]today is something else.

0:02:36.231,0:02:38.949
What I have in mind is how[br]much worse things might've been

0:02:38.973,0:02:40.137
if I weren't affluent.

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I mean, they thought I might be trying[br]to plant an explosive,

0:02:43.103,0:02:46.272
and they investigated that possibility[br]for an hour and a half,

0:02:46.296,0:02:48.008
but I was never put in handcuffs,

0:02:48.032,0:02:50.044
I was never taken to a jail cell.

0:02:50.068,0:02:54.128
I think if I were from one of Washington[br]DC's poor communities of color,

0:02:54.152,0:02:56.575
and they thought I was[br]endangering officers' lives,

0:02:56.599,0:02:58.220
things might've ended differently.

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And in fact, in our system, I think[br]it's better to be an affluent person

0:03:01.672,0:03:03.960
suspected of trying[br]to blow up a police station

0:03:03.984,0:03:05.651
than it is to be a poor person

0:03:05.675,0:03:08.332
who's suspected of much,[br]much less than this.

0:03:08.356,0:03:10.931
I want to give you an example[br]from my current work.

0:03:11.309,0:03:14.559
Right now, I'm working[br]at a civil rights organization in DC,

0:03:14.583,0:03:16.915
called Equal Justice Under Law.

0:03:16.939,0:03:19.848
Let me start by asking you all a question.

0:03:19.872,0:03:22.859
How many of you have ever gotten[br]a parking ticket in your life?

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Raise your hand.

0:03:24.071,0:03:26.017
Yeah. So have I.

0:03:26.041,0:03:27.374
And when I had to pay it,

0:03:27.398,0:03:29.429
it felt annoying and it felt bad,

0:03:29.453,0:03:31.369
but I paid it and I moved on.

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I'm guessing most of you[br]have paid your tickets as well.

0:03:34.616,0:03:38.903
But what would happen if you[br]couldn't afford the amount on the ticket

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and your family doesn't have[br]the money either, what happens then?

0:03:42.121,0:03:45.112
Well, one thing that's not supposed[br]to happen under the law is,

0:03:45.136,0:03:47.240
you're not supposed to be[br]arrested and jailed

0:03:47.264,0:03:49.360
simply because you can't afford to pay.

0:03:49.384,0:03:51.188
That's illegal under federal law.

0:03:51.212,0:03:54.140
But that's what local governments[br]across the country are doing

0:03:54.164,0:03:55.321
to people who are poor.

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And so many of our lawsuits[br]at Equal Justice Under Law

0:03:58.289,0:04:00.742
target these modern-day debtors' prisons.

0:04:01.771,0:04:04.492
One of our cases is against[br]Ferguson, Missouri.

0:04:04.516,0:04:06.340
And I know when I say Ferguson,

0:04:06.364,0:04:08.462
many of you will think of police violence.

0:04:08.486,0:04:10.773
But today I want to talk[br]about a different aspect

0:04:10.797,0:04:14.263
of the relationship between[br]their police force and their citizens.

0:04:14.287,0:04:17.821
Ferguson was issuing an average[br]of over two arrest warrants,

0:04:17.845,0:04:19.852
per person, per year,

0:04:19.876,0:04:22.124
mostly for unpaid debt to the courts.

0:04:22.996,0:04:27.019
When I imagine what that would feel like[br]if, every time I left my house,

0:04:27.043,0:04:30.143
there was a chance a police officer[br]would run my license plate,

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see a warrant for unpaid debt,

0:04:31.882,0:04:34.012
seize my body they way the did in DC

0:04:34.036,0:04:35.953
and then take me to a jail cell,

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I feel a little sick.

0:04:38.838,0:04:41.994
I've met many of the people in Ferguson[br]who have experienced this,

0:04:42.018,0:04:43.805
and I've heard some of their stories.

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In Ferguson's jail,

0:04:45.221,0:04:48.330
in each small cell,[br]there's a bunk bed and a toilet,

0:04:48.354,0:04:50.656
but they pack four people into each cell.

0:04:50.680,0:04:53.795
So there'd be two people on the bunks[br]and two people on the floor,

0:04:53.819,0:04:56.746
one with nowhere to go except[br]right next to the filthy toilet,

0:04:56.770,0:04:57.930
which was never cleaned.

0:04:57.954,0:05:00.117
In fact, the whole cell was never cleaned,

0:05:00.141,0:05:03.696
so the floor and the walls were lined[br]with blood and mucus.

0:05:04.088,0:05:05.238
No water to drink,

0:05:05.262,0:05:07.966
except coming out of a spigot[br]connected to the toilet.

0:05:07.990,0:05:09.710
The water looked and tasted dirty,

0:05:09.734,0:05:11.249
there was never enough food,

0:05:11.273,0:05:12.821
never any showers.

0:05:12.845,0:05:15.635
Women menstruating[br]without any hygiene products --

0:05:15.659,0:05:17.353
no medical attention whatsoever.

0:05:17.377,0:05:19.557
When I asked a woman[br]about medical attention,

0:05:19.581,0:05:21.976
she laughed, and she said, "Oh, no, no.

0:05:22.000,0:05:25.145
The only attention you get[br]from the guards in there is sexual."

0:05:25.838,0:05:28.558
So, they'd take the debtors[br]to this place and they'd say,

0:05:28.582,0:05:32.118
"We're not letting you leave[br]until you make a payment on your debt."

0:05:32.142,0:05:34.772
And if you could -- if you[br]could call a family member

0:05:34.796,0:05:36.937
who could somehow come up with some money,

0:05:36.961,0:05:38.354
then maybe you were out.

0:05:38.378,0:05:40.537
If it was enough money, you were out.

0:05:40.561,0:05:43.879
But if it wasn't, you'd stay there[br]for days or weeks,

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and every day the guards[br]would come down to the cells

0:05:46.713,0:05:50.100
and haggle with the debtors[br]about the price of release that day.

0:05:50.625,0:05:54.747
You'd stay until, at some point,[br]the jail would be booked to capacity,

0:05:54.771,0:05:56.721
and they'd want to book someone new in.

0:05:56.745,0:05:58.306
And at that point, they'd think,

0:05:58.330,0:06:01.085
"OK, it's unlikely this person[br]can come up with the money,

0:06:01.109,0:06:02.969
it's more likely this new person will."

0:06:02.993,0:06:05.971
You're out, they're in,[br]and the machine kept moving like that.

0:06:05.995,0:06:08.021
I met a man who,

0:06:08.045,0:06:12.312
nine years ago, was arrested[br]for panhandling in a Walgreens.

0:06:12.336,0:06:16.392
He couldn't afford his fines[br]and his court fees from that case.

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When he was young[br]he survived a house fire,

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only because he jumped out[br]of the third-story window to escape.

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But that fall left him[br]with damage to his brain

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and several parts of this body,[br]including his leg.

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So he can't work,

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and he relies on social security[br]payments to survive.

0:06:30.826,0:06:32.512
When I met him in his apartment,

0:06:32.536,0:06:35.415
he had nothing of value there --[br]not even food in his fridge.

0:06:35.439,0:06:36.604
He's chronically hungry.

0:06:36.628,0:06:40.107
He had nothing of value in his apartment[br]except a small piece of cardboard

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on which he'd written[br]the names of children.

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He cherished this a lot.[br]He was happy to show it to me.

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But he can't pay his fines and fees[br]because he has nothing to give.

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In the last nine years,[br]he's been arrested 13 times,

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and jailed for a total of 130 days[br]on that panhandling case.

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One of those stretches lasted 45 days.

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Just imagine spending from right now[br]until sometime in June

0:07:04.161,0:07:06.957
in the place that I described to you[br]a few moments ago.

0:07:08.616,0:07:12.697
He told me about all the suicide attempts[br]he's seen in Ferguson's jail;

0:07:12.721,0:07:14.994
about the time a man found[br]a way to hang himself

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out of reach of the other inmates,

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so all they could do[br]was yell and yell and yell,

0:07:19.888,0:07:21.628
trying to get the guards' attention,

0:07:21.652,0:07:23.645
so they could come down and cut him down.

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And he told me that it took the guards[br]over five minutes to respond,

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and when they came,[br]the man was unconscious.

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So they called the paramedics[br]and the paramedics went to the cell.

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They said, "He'll be OK,"

0:07:33.972,0:07:36.176
so they just left him there on the floor.

0:07:36.200,0:07:39.494
I heard many stories like this[br]and they shouldn't have surprised me,

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because suicide is the single leading[br]cause of death in our local jails.

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This is related to the lack[br]of mental health care in our jails.

0:07:46.863,0:07:50.783
I met a woman, single mother of three,[br]making seven dollars an hour.

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She relies on food stamps[br]to feed herself and her children.

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About a decade ago,

0:07:55.676,0:07:59.441
she got a couple of traffic tickets[br]and a minor theft charge,

0:07:59.465,0:08:02.233
and she can't afford her fines[br]and fees on those cases.

0:08:02.726,0:08:06.226
Since then, she's been jailed[br]about 10 times on those cases,

0:08:06.250,0:08:08.533
but she has schizophrenia[br]and bipolar disorder,

0:08:08.557,0:08:10.708
and she needs medication every day.

0:08:10.732,0:08:13.770
She doesn't have access[br]to those medications in Ferguson's jail,

0:08:13.794,0:08:16.010
because no one has access[br]to their medications.

0:08:16.034,0:08:20.060
She told me about what it was like[br]to spend two weeks in a cage,

0:08:20.084,0:08:23.637
hallucinating people and shadows[br]and hearing voices,

0:08:23.661,0:08:26.255
begging for the medication[br]that would make it all stop,

0:08:26.279,0:08:27.649
only to be ignored.

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And this isn't anomalous, either:

0:08:30.240,0:08:33.765
thirty percent of women in our local jails[br]have serious mental health needs

0:08:33.789,0:08:34.945
just like hers,

0:08:34.969,0:08:39.486
but only one in six receives[br]any mental health care while in jail.

0:08:39.510,0:08:43.335
And so, I heard all these stories[br]about this grotesque dungeon

0:08:43.359,0:08:45.557
that Ferguson was operating[br]for its debtors,

0:08:45.581,0:08:47.874
and when it came time[br]for me to actually see it

0:08:47.898,0:08:49.852
and to go visit Ferguson's jail,

0:08:49.876,0:08:51.916
I'm not sure what I was expecting to see,

0:08:51.940,0:08:53.894
but I wasn't expecting this.

0:08:54.495,0:08:56.334
It's an ordinary government building.

0:08:56.358,0:08:58.814
It could be a post office or a school.

0:08:58.838,0:09:02.530
It reminded me that these illegal[br]extortion schemes

0:09:02.554,0:09:04.642
aren't being run somewhere in the shadows,

0:09:04.666,0:09:07.382
they're being run out in the open[br]by our public officials.

0:09:07.406,0:09:09.106
They're a matter of public policy.

0:09:09.130,0:09:11.969
And this reminded me[br]that poverty jailing in general,

0:09:11.993,0:09:14.201
even outside the debtors' prison context,

0:09:14.225,0:09:17.146
plays a very visible and central role[br]in our justice system.

0:09:17.818,0:09:20.030
What I have in mind is our policy of bail.

0:09:20.054,0:09:22.606
In our system, whether[br]you're detained or free,

0:09:22.630,0:09:25.760
pending trial is not a matter[br]of how dangerous you are

0:09:25.784,0:09:28.032
or how much of a flight risk you pose.

0:09:28.056,0:09:31.142
It's a matter of whether you can afford[br]to post your bail amount.

0:09:31.166,0:09:33.878
So Bill Cosby, whose bail[br]was set at a million dollars,

0:09:33.902,0:09:37.362
immediately writes the check,[br]and doesn't spend a second in a jail cell.

0:09:37.386,0:09:39.118
But Sandra Bland, who died in jail,

0:09:39.142,0:09:43.140
was only there because her family[br]was unable to come up with 500 dollars.

0:09:43.164,0:09:46.551
In fact, there are half a million[br]Sandra Blands across the country --

0:09:46.575,0:09:48.841
500,000 people who are in jail right now,

0:09:48.865,0:09:51.526
only because they can't afford[br]their bail amount.

0:09:51.550,0:09:54.607
We're told that our jails[br]are places for criminals,

0:09:54.631,0:09:56.644
but statistically that's not the case:

0:09:56.668,0:10:00.969
three out of every five people[br]in jail right now are there pretrial.

0:10:00.993,0:10:03.175
They haven't been convicted of any crime;

0:10:03.199,0:10:05.710
they haven't pled guilty to any offense.

0:10:06.351,0:10:07.695
Right here in San Francisco,

0:10:07.719,0:10:11.109
85 percent of the inmates[br]in our jail in San Francisco

0:10:11.133,0:10:12.877
are pretrial detainees.

0:10:12.901,0:10:16.286
This means San Francisco is spending[br]something like 80 million dollars

0:10:16.310,0:10:17.480
every year

0:10:17.504,0:10:19.220
to fund pretrial detention.

0:10:21.240,0:10:25.659
Many of these people who are in jail[br]only because they can't post bail

0:10:25.683,0:10:27.929
are facing allegations so minor

0:10:27.953,0:10:31.336
that the amount of time it would take[br]for them to sit waiting for trial

0:10:31.360,0:10:34.412
is longer than the sentence[br]they would receive if convicted,

0:10:34.436,0:10:36.704
which means they're guaranteed[br]to get out faster

0:10:36.728,0:10:38.012
if they just plead guilty.

0:10:38.036,0:10:39.595
So now the choice is:

0:10:39.619,0:10:42.492
Should I stay here in this horrible place,

0:10:42.516,0:10:44.626
away from my family and my dependents,

0:10:44.650,0:10:47.127
almost guaranteed to lose my job,

0:10:47.151,0:10:48.772
and then fight the charges?

0:10:48.796,0:10:52.365
Or should I just plead guilty to whatever[br]the prosecutor wants and get out?

0:10:52.389,0:10:55.324
And at this point, they're pretrial[br]detainees, not criminals.

0:10:55.348,0:10:58.240
But once they take that plea deal,[br]we'll call them criminals,

0:10:58.264,0:11:01.644
even though an affluent person[br]would never have been in this situation,

0:11:01.668,0:11:04.542
because an affluent person[br]would have simply been bailed out.

0:11:04.566,0:11:06.656
At this point you might be wondering,

0:11:06.680,0:11:09.474
"This guy's in the inspiration section,[br]what is he doing --

0:11:09.498,0:11:10.658
(Laughter)

0:11:10.682,0:11:13.488
"This is extremely depressing.[br]I want my money back."

0:11:13.512,0:11:14.718
(Laughter)

0:11:14.742,0:11:17.141
But in actuality,

0:11:17.165,0:11:21.555
I find talking about jailing much less[br]depressing than the alternative,

0:11:21.579,0:11:24.015
because I think if we don't talk[br]about these issues

0:11:24.039,0:11:26.440
and collectively change[br]how we think about jailing,

0:11:26.464,0:11:27.968
at the end of all of our lives,

0:11:27.992,0:11:31.123
we'll still have jails full of poor people[br]who don't belong there.

0:11:31.147,0:11:32.701
That really is depressing to me.

0:11:32.725,0:11:36.149
But what's exciting to me is the thought[br]that these stories can moves us

0:11:36.173,0:11:38.216
to think about jailing in different terms.

0:11:38.240,0:11:41.611
Not in sterile policy terms[br]like "mass incarceration,"

0:11:41.635,0:11:43.621
or "sentencing of nonviolent offenders,"

0:11:43.645,0:11:44.811
but in human terms.

0:11:44.835,0:11:49.420
When we put a human being in a cage[br]for days or weeks or months

0:11:49.444,0:11:50.888
or even years,

0:11:50.912,0:11:53.261
what are we doing[br]to that person's mind and body?

0:11:53.285,0:11:56.043
Under what conditions[br]are we really willing to do that?

0:11:56.569,0:11:59.375
And so if starting with a few[br]hundred of us in this room,

0:11:59.399,0:12:02.443
we can commit to thinking about[br]jailing in this different light,

0:12:02.467,0:12:05.947
then we can undo that normalization[br]I was referring to earlier.

0:12:05.971,0:12:09.009
If I leave you with anything today,[br]I hope it's with the thought

0:12:09.033,0:12:11.465
that if we want anything[br]to fundamentally change --

0:12:11.489,0:12:14.769
not just to reform our policies[br]on bail and fines and fees --

0:12:14.793,0:12:17.846
but also to make sure that whatever[br]new policies replace those

0:12:17.870,0:12:20.921
don't punish the poor and the marginalized[br]in their own new way.

0:12:20.945,0:12:22.577
If we want that kind of change,

0:12:22.601,0:12:25.126
then this shift in thinking[br]is required of each of us.

0:12:25.150,0:12:26.334
Thank you.

0:12:26.358,0:12:29.015
(Applause)