0:00:00.718,0:00:03.336
One summer afternoon in 2013,

0:00:03.336,0:00:06.318
D.C. police detained,[br]questioned and searched

0:00:06.318,0:00:09.580
a man who appeared suspicious[br]and potentially dangerous.

0:00:10.336,0:00:12.960
This wasn't what I was wearing[br]the day of the detention,

0:00:12.960,0:00:13.958
to be fair,

0:00:13.958,0:00:15.721
but I have a picture of that as well.

0:00:15.721,0:00:17.219
I know it's very frightening --

0:00:17.219,0:00:18.472
try to remain calm.

0:00:18.472,0:00:19.469
(Laughter)

0:00:19.469,0:00:20.861
At this time,

0:00:20.861,0:00:24.913
I was interning at the Public[br]Defender Service in Washington D.C.,

0:00:24.913,0:00:27.303
and I was visiting a police[br]station for work.

0:00:27.303,0:00:28.298
I was on my way out,

0:00:28.298,0:00:30.314
and before I could make it to my car,

0:00:30.314,0:00:32.639
two police cars pulled up[br]to block my exit,

0:00:32.639,0:00:34.659
and an officer approached me from behind.

0:00:34.994,0:00:36.178
He told me to stop,

0:00:36.178,0:00:37.290
take my backpack off

0:00:37.290,0:00:40.366
and put my hands on the police car[br]parked next to us.

0:00:40.914,0:00:43.596
About a dozen officers[br]then gathered near us.

0:00:43.819,0:00:45.090
All of them had handguns,

0:00:45.090,0:00:46.456
some had assault rifles.

0:00:46.456,0:00:48.311
They rifled through my backpack,

0:00:48.311,0:00:49.739
they patted me down,

0:00:49.739,0:00:52.046
they took pictures of me[br]spread on the police car

0:00:52.046,0:00:53.120
and they laughed.

0:00:53.120,0:00:54.742
And as all this was happening --

0:00:54.742,0:00:57.880
as I was on the police car trying[br]to ignore the shaking in my legs,

0:00:57.880,0:01:00.403
trying to think clearly[br]about what I should do --

0:01:00.403,0:01:02.243
something stuck out to me as odd.

0:01:02.517,0:01:04.444
When I look at myself in this photo,

0:01:04.444,0:01:06.303
if I were to describe myself,

0:01:06.303,0:01:08.285
I think I'd say something like,

0:01:08.285,0:01:10.945
"19-year-old Indian male,

0:01:10.945,0:01:12.015
bright T-shirt,

0:01:12.015,0:01:13.099
wearing glasses."

0:01:13.552,0:01:16.933
But they weren't including any[br]of these details into their police radios

0:01:16.933,0:01:17.942
as they described me.

0:01:17.942,0:01:20.518
They kept saying, "Middle Eastern[br]male with a backpack.

0:01:20.518,0:01:22.589
Middle Eastern male with a backpack."

0:01:22.941,0:01:25.888
And this description carried on[br]into their police reports.

0:01:26.606,0:01:31.198
I never expected to be described[br]by my own government in these terms:

0:01:31.198,0:01:33.365
"lurking ...

0:01:33.365,0:01:35.992
nefarious ...

0:01:35.992,0:01:37.097
terrorist."

0:01:37.097,0:01:38.983
And the detention dragged on like this.

0:01:38.983,0:01:43.026
They sent dogs trained to smell explosives[br]to sweep the area I'd been in.

0:01:43.026,0:01:46.328
They called the federal government[br]to see if I was on any watch lists.

0:01:46.328,0:01:49.212
They sent a couple of detectives[br]to cross-examine me on why,

0:01:49.212,0:01:51.505
if I claimed I had nothing to hide,

0:01:51.505,0:01:53.465
I wouldn't consent to a search of my car.

0:01:53.465,0:01:55.482
And I could see they[br]weren't happy with me,

0:01:55.482,0:01:58.747
but I felt I had no way of knowing[br]what they'd want to do next.

0:01:58.747,0:02:01.667
At one point, the officer[br]who patted me down

0:02:01.667,0:02:05.220
scanned the side of the police station[br]to see where the security camera was

0:02:05.220,0:02:07.849
to see how much of this[br]was being recorded.

0:02:08.115,0:02:09.263
And when he did that,

0:02:09.263,0:02:12.615
it really sank in how completely[br]I was at their mercy.

0:02:12.913,0:02:15.206
I think we're all normalized[br]from a young age

0:02:15.206,0:02:18.894
to the idea of police officers[br]and arrests and handcuffs,

0:02:18.894,0:02:22.860
so it's easy to forget how demeaning[br]and [coercive] a thing it is

0:02:22.860,0:02:25.506
to seize control over[br]another person's body.

0:02:25.851,0:02:27.858
I know it sounds like[br]the point of my story

0:02:27.858,0:02:30.479
is how badly treated I was[br]because of my race --

0:02:30.479,0:02:33.571
and yes, I don't think I would've been[br]detained if I were white --

0:02:33.571,0:02:36.233
but actually what I have in mind[br]today is something else.

0:02:36.233,0:02:38.974
What I have in mind is how[br]much worse things might've been

0:02:38.974,0:02:40.405
if I weren't affluent.

0:02:40.405,0:02:43.346
I mean, they thought I might be[br]trying to plant an explosive,

0:02:43.346,0:02:46.538
and they investigated that possibility[br]for an hour-and-a-half,

0:02:46.538,0:02:48.273
but I was never put in handcuffs,

0:02:48.273,0:02:50.156
I was never taken to a jail cell.

0:02:50.156,0:02:51.665
I think if I were from

0:02:51.665,0:02:54.253
one of Washington D.C.'s[br]poor communities of color,

0:02:54.253,0:02:56.673
and they thought I was[br]endangering officers' lives,

0:02:56.673,0:02:58.300
things might've ended differently.

0:02:58.300,0:02:59.303
And in fact,

0:02:59.303,0:03:00.303
in our system,

0:03:00.303,0:03:02.351
I think it's better[br]to be an affluent person

0:03:02.351,0:03:04.554
suspected of trying[br]to blow up a police station

0:03:04.554,0:03:08.624
than it is to be a poor person who's[br]suspected of much, much less than this.

0:03:08.624,0:03:11.199
I want to give you an example[br]from my current work.

0:03:11.508,0:03:14.706
Right now, I'm working for[br]a civil rights organization in D.C.

0:03:14.706,0:03:16.876
called Equal Justice Under Law.

0:03:17.130,0:03:20.030
Let me start by asking you all a question.

0:03:20.030,0:03:23.000
How many of you have ever gotten[br]a parking ticket in your life?

0:03:23.000,0:03:24.090
Raise your hand.

0:03:24.090,0:03:25.394
Yeah, so have I.

0:03:26.091,0:03:27.398
And when I had to pay it,

0:03:27.398,0:03:29.453
it felt annoying and it felt bad,

0:03:29.453,0:03:31.337
but I paid it and I moved on.

0:03:31.608,0:03:34.423
I'm guessing most of you[br]have paid your tickets as well.

0:03:34.680,0:03:38.990
But what would happen if you couldn't[br]afford the amount on the ticket

0:03:38.990,0:03:41.147
and your family doesn't[br]have the money either?

0:03:41.147,0:03:42.257
What happens then?

0:03:42.257,0:03:45.029
Well, one thing that's not supposed[br]to happen under the law

0:03:45.029,0:03:47.262
is you're not supposed to be[br]arrested and jailed

0:03:47.262,0:03:49.539
simply because you can't afford to pay.

0:03:49.539,0:03:51.308
That's illegal under federal law,

0:03:51.308,0:03:54.259
but that's what local govenerments[br]across the country are doing

0:03:54.259,0:03:55.499
to people who are poor.

0:03:55.499,0:03:58.442
And so many of our lawsuits[br]at Equal Justice Under Law

0:03:58.442,0:04:01.055
target these modern-day debtors' prisons.

0:04:01.891,0:04:04.635
One of our cases is against[br]Ferguson, Missouri,

0:04:04.635,0:04:06.482
and I know when I say Ferguson,

0:04:06.482,0:04:08.701
many of you will think of police violence,

0:04:08.701,0:04:10.997
but today I want to talk[br]about a different aspect

0:04:10.997,0:04:14.254
of the relationship between[br]their police force and their citizens.

0:04:14.500,0:04:18.826
Ferguson was issuing an average[br]of over two arrest warrants per person,

0:04:18.826,0:04:20.161
per year,

0:04:20.161,0:04:22.409
mostly for unpaid debt to the courts.

0:04:23.116,0:04:27.213
When I imagine what that would feel like[br]if every time I left my house

0:04:27.213,0:04:30.336
there was a chance a police officer[br]would run my license plate,

0:04:30.336,0:04:31.989
see a warrant for unpaid debt,

0:04:31.989,0:04:34.036
seize my body they way the did in D.C.

0:04:34.036,0:04:36.149
and then take me to a jail cell,

0:04:36.149,0:04:37.783
I feel a little sick.

0:04:38.882,0:04:41.990
I've met many of the people in Ferguson[br]who have experienced this,

0:04:41.990,0:04:43.763
and I've heard some of their stories.

0:04:43.856,0:04:45.373
In Ferguson's jail,

0:04:45.373,0:04:48.505
in each small cell there's[br]a bunk bed and a toilet,

0:04:48.505,0:04:50.774
but they pack four people into each cell.

0:04:50.774,0:04:53.869
So there'd be two people on the bunks[br]and two people on the floor,

0:04:53.869,0:04:56.770
one with nowhere to go except[br]right next to the filthy toilet,

0:04:56.770,0:04:57.935
which was never cleaned.

0:04:57.935,0:04:59.959
In fact, the whole cell was never cleaned,

0:04:59.959,0:05:03.514
so the floor and the walls were lined[br]with blood and mucus.

0:05:04.216,0:05:05.262
No water to drink

0:05:05.262,0:05:08.128
except coming out of a spigot[br]connected to the toilet.

0:05:08.128,0:05:09.871
The water looked and tasted dirty,

0:05:09.871,0:05:11.409
there was never enough food,

0:05:11.409,0:05:12.893
never any showers.

0:05:12.893,0:05:15.706
Women menstruating without[br]any hygiene products --

0:05:15.706,0:05:17.449
no medical attention whatsoever.

0:05:17.449,0:05:19.652
When I asked a woman[br]about medical attention,

0:05:19.652,0:05:20.652
she laughed,

0:05:20.652,0:05:22.185
and she said, "Oh, no no.

0:05:22.185,0:05:25.235
The only attention you get [br]from the guards in there is sexual."

0:05:25.838,0:05:28.685
So, they'd take the debtors[br]to this place and they'd say,

0:05:28.685,0:05:31.899
"We're not letting you leave until[br]you make a payment on your debt."

0:05:32.188,0:05:33.234
And if you could --

0:05:33.234,0:05:37.095
if you could call a family member who[br]could somehow come up with some money,

0:05:37.095,0:05:38.378
then maybe you were out.

0:05:38.378,0:05:39.479
If it was enough money,

0:05:39.479,0:05:40.647
you were out.

0:05:40.647,0:05:41.650
But if it wasn't,

0:05:41.650,0:05:43.903
then you'd stay there for days or weeks,

0:05:43.903,0:05:46.713
and every day the guards[br]would come down to the cells

0:05:46.713,0:05:50.100
and haggle with the debtors about[br]the price of release that day.

0:05:50.721,0:05:54.867
You'd stay until at some point the jail[br]would be booked to capacity,

0:05:54.867,0:05:56.745
and they'd want to book someone new in,

0:05:56.745,0:05:58.224
and at that point they'd think,

0:05:58.224,0:06:00.899
OK, it's unlikely this person[br]can come up with the money,

0:06:00.899,0:06:02.706
it's more likely this new person will,

0:06:02.706,0:06:03.871
you're out, they're in,

0:06:03.871,0:06:05.908
and the machine kept moving like that.

0:06:06.121,0:06:08.170
I met a man who,

0:06:08.170,0:06:09.264
nine years ago,

0:06:09.264,0:06:12.459
was arrested for panhandling[br]in a Walgreens.

0:06:12.459,0:06:16.268
He couldn't afford his fines[br]and his court fees from that case.

0:06:16.479,0:06:19.586
When he was young he survived a house fire

0:06:19.606,0:06:22.444
only because he jumped out[br]the third-story window to escape.

0:06:22.444,0:06:24.640
But that fall left him[br]with damage to his brain

0:06:24.640,0:06:26.120
and several parts of this body,

0:06:26.120,0:06:27.117
including his leg.

0:06:27.117,0:06:28.115
So he can't work,

0:06:28.115,0:06:30.799
and he relies on social security[br]payments to survive.

0:06:30.799,0:06:32.558
When I met him in his apartment,

0:06:32.558,0:06:34.096
he had nothing of value there --

0:06:34.096,0:06:35.439
not even food in his fridge.

0:06:35.439,0:06:36.586
He's chronically hungry.

0:06:36.586,0:06:40.062
He had nothing of value in his apartment[br]except a small piece of cardboard

0:06:40.062,0:06:42.127
on which he'd written[br]the names of children.

0:06:42.127,0:06:43.402
He cherished this a lot,

0:06:43.402,0:06:44.841
he was happy to show it to me.

0:06:44.841,0:06:48.115
But he can't pay his fines and fees[br]because he has nothing to give.

0:06:48.115,0:06:49.671
In the last nine years,

0:06:49.671,0:06:51.565
he's been arrested 13 times,

0:06:51.565,0:06:56.012
and jailed for a total of 130 days[br]on that panhandling case.

0:06:56.716,0:06:59.385
One of those stretches lasted 45 days.

0:06:59.731,0:07:04.316
Just imagine spending from right now[br]until sometime in June

0:07:04.316,0:07:07.112
in the place that I described to you[br]a few moments ago.

0:07:08.704,0:07:12.307
He told me about all the suicide attempts[br]he's seen in Ferguson's jail.

0:07:12.775,0:07:15.018
About the time a man found[br]a way to hang himself

0:07:15.018,0:07:16.775
out of reach of the other inmates,

0:07:16.775,0:07:20.016
so all they could do was yell[br]and yell and yell,

0:07:20.016,0:07:21.682
trying to get the guards' attention

0:07:21.682,0:07:23.672
so they could come down and cut him down.

0:07:23.672,0:07:27.274
And he told me that it took the guards[br]over five minutes to respond,

0:07:27.274,0:07:28.274
and when they came,

0:07:28.274,0:07:29.421
the man was unconscious.

0:07:29.421,0:07:32.547
So they called the paramedics[br]and the paramedics went to the cell.

0:07:32.547,0:07:33.972
They said, "He'll be OK,"

0:07:33.972,0:07:35.978
so they just left him there on the floor.

0:07:36.200,0:07:39.387
I heard many stories like this[br]and they shouldn't have surprised me,

0:07:39.387,0:07:42.929
because suicide is the single leading[br]cause of death in our local jails.

0:07:43.960,0:07:46.917
This is related to the lack[br]of mental health care in our jails.

0:07:46.917,0:07:47.917
I met a woman,

0:07:47.917,0:07:49.015
single mother of three,

0:07:49.015,0:07:50.965
making seven dollars an hour.

0:07:50.965,0:07:53.757
She relies on food stamps[br]to feed herself and her children.

0:07:54.584,0:07:55.927
About a decade ago,

0:07:55.927,0:07:59.715
she got a couple of traffic tickets[br]and a minor theft charge,

0:07:59.715,0:08:02.281
and she can't afford her fines[br]and fees on those cases.

0:08:02.886,0:08:06.416
Since then, she's been jailed[br]about 10 times on those cases,

0:08:06.416,0:08:08.722
but she has schizophrenia[br]and bipolar disorder,

0:08:08.722,0:08:10.764
and she needs medication every day.

0:08:10.764,0:08:13.714
She doesn't have access to those[br]medications in Ferguson's jail

0:08:13.714,0:08:15.912
because no one has access[br]to their medications.

0:08:15.912,0:08:20.215
She told me about what it was like[br]to spend two weeks in a cage,

0:08:20.215,0:08:23.791
hallucinating people and shadows[br]and hearing voices,

0:08:23.791,0:08:26.365
begging for the medication[br]that would make it all stop,

0:08:26.365,0:08:27.735
only to be ignored.

0:08:28.569,0:08:30.374
And this isn't anomalous either:

0:08:30.374,0:08:33.895
thirty percent of women in our local jails[br]have serious mental health needs

0:08:33.895,0:08:35.075
just like hers,

0:08:35.075,0:08:39.615
but only one in six receive mental[br]health care while in jail.

0:08:39.615,0:08:43.359
And so, I heard all these stories[br]about this grotesque dungeon

0:08:43.359,0:08:45.581
that Ferguson was operating[br]for its debtors,

0:08:45.581,0:08:49.951
and when it came time for me to actually[br]see it and to go visit Ferguson's jail,

0:08:49.951,0:08:51.928
I'm not sure what I was expecting to see,

0:08:51.928,0:08:53.882
but I wasn't expecting this.

0:08:54.522,0:08:56.281
It's an ordinary government building.

0:08:56.281,0:08:58.566
It could be a post office or a school.

0:08:59.052,0:09:02.721
It reminded me that these[br]illegal extortion schemes

0:09:02.721,0:09:04.832
aren't being run somewhere in the shadows,

0:09:04.832,0:09:07.553
they're being run out in the open[br]by our public officials.

0:09:07.553,0:09:09.294
They're a matter of public policy.

0:09:09.294,0:09:12.156
And this reminded me[br]that poverty jailing in general,

0:09:12.156,0:09:14.509
even outside the debtors' prison context,

0:09:14.509,0:09:17.430
plays a very visible and central role[br]in our justice system.

0:09:17.883,0:09:20.118
What I have in mind is our policy of bail.

0:09:20.118,0:09:21.123
In our system,

0:09:21.123,0:09:22.840
whether you're detained or free,

0:09:22.840,0:09:23.844
pending trial,

0:09:23.844,0:09:25.826
is not a matter of how dangerous you are,

0:09:25.826,0:09:28.056
or how much of a flight risk you pose,

0:09:28.056,0:09:31.119
it's a matter of whether you can afford[br]to post your bail amount.

0:09:31.119,0:09:32.116
So Bill Cosby,

0:09:32.116,0:09:34.083
whose bail was set a one million dollars,

0:09:34.083,0:09:35.425
immediately writes the check

0:09:35.425,0:09:37.425
and doesn't spend a second in a jail cell.

0:09:37.425,0:09:38.431
But Sandra Bland,

0:09:38.431,0:09:39.430
who died in jail,

0:09:39.430,0:09:43.079
was only there because her family[br]was unable to come up with 500 dollars.

0:09:43.301,0:09:44.300
In fact,

0:09:44.300,0:09:47.020
there are half a million[br]Sandra Blands across the country.

0:09:47.020,0:09:48.930
500,000 people who are in jail right now

0:09:48.930,0:09:51.343
only because they can't[br]afford their bail amount.

0:09:51.678,0:09:54.718
We're told that our jails[br]are places for criminals,

0:09:54.718,0:09:56.754
but statistically that's not the case:

0:09:56.754,0:10:01.078
three out of every five people[br]in jail right now are there pretrial.

0:10:01.078,0:10:03.346
They haven't been convicted of any crime;

0:10:03.346,0:10:05.857
they haven't pled guilty to any offense.

0:10:06.510,0:10:07.877
Right here in San Francisco,

0:10:07.877,0:10:11.290
85 percent of the inmates[br]in our jail in San Francisco

0:10:11.290,0:10:13.057
are pretrial detainees.

0:10:13.057,0:10:16.465
This means San Francisco is spending[br]something like 80 million dollars

0:10:16.465,0:10:17.468
every year

0:10:17.468,0:10:19.536
to fund pretrial detention.

0:10:22.058,0:10:25.771
Many of these people who are in jail[br]only because they can't post bail

0:10:25.771,0:10:28.087
are facing allegations so minor

0:10:28.087,0:10:31.452
that the amount of time it would take[br]for them to sit waiting for trial

0:10:31.452,0:10:34.394
is longer than the sentence[br]they would receive if convicted,

0:10:34.394,0:10:36.645
which means they're guaranteed[br]to get out faster

0:10:36.645,0:10:38.196
if they just plead guilty.

0:10:38.196,0:10:39.778
So now the choice is,

0:10:39.778,0:10:42.725
should I stay here in this horrible place,

0:10:42.725,0:10:44.858
away from my family[br]and my dependents,

0:10:44.858,0:10:47.358
almost guaranteed to lose my job,

0:10:47.358,0:10:48.946
and then fight the charges,

0:10:48.946,0:10:52.480
or should I just plead guilty to whatever[br]the prosecutor wants and get out?

0:10:52.480,0:10:54.394
At this point they're[br]pretrial detainees,

0:10:54.394,0:10:55.388
not criminals.

0:10:55.388,0:10:57.005
But once they take that plea deal,

0:10:57.005,0:10:58.257
we'll call them criminals,

0:10:58.257,0:11:01.596
even though an affluent person[br]would never have been in this situation,

0:11:01.596,0:11:04.465
because an affluent person[br]would have simply been bailed out.

0:11:04.465,0:11:06.680
At this point you might be wondering,

0:11:06.680,0:11:08.496
this guy's in the inspiration section,

0:11:08.496,0:11:09.497
what is he doing --

0:11:09.497,0:11:10.682
(Laughter)

0:11:10.682,0:11:12.380
This is extremely depressing.

0:11:12.380,0:11:13.792
I want my money back.

0:11:13.792,0:11:14.795
(Laughter)

0:11:14.795,0:11:17.165
But in actuality,

0:11:17.165,0:11:21.690
I find talking about jailing much less[br]depressing than the alternative,

0:11:21.690,0:11:24.076
because I think if we don't[br]talk about these issues

0:11:24.076,0:11:26.518
and collectively change how[br]we think about jailing,

0:11:26.518,0:11:27.992
at the end of all of our lives,

0:11:27.992,0:11:31.088
we'll still have jails full of poor[br]people who don't belong there.

0:11:31.088,0:11:32.620
That really is depressing to me.

0:11:32.620,0:11:34.535
But what's exciting to me is the thought

0:11:34.535,0:11:38.240
that these stories can moves us to think[br]about jailing in different terms.

0:11:38.240,0:11:41.635
Not in sterile policy terms[br]like "mass incarceration,

0:11:41.635,0:11:43.645
or sentencing of nonviolent offenders,"

0:11:43.645,0:11:44.906
but in human terms.

0:11:44.906,0:11:49.604
When we put a human being in a cage[br]for days, or weeks, or months,

0:11:49.604,0:11:50.999
or even years,

0:11:50.999,0:11:53.510
what are we doing[br]to that person's mind and body?

0:11:53.510,0:11:56.268
Under what conditions are we[br]really willing to do that?

0:11:56.594,0:11:59.450
And so if starting with a few[br]hundred of us in this room,

0:11:59.450,0:12:02.466
we can commit to thinking about[br]jailing in this different light,

0:12:02.466,0:12:05.713
then we can undo that normalization[br]I was referring to earlier.

0:12:06.050,0:12:07.753
If I leave you with anything today,

0:12:07.753,0:12:09.093
I hope it's with the thought

0:12:09.093,0:12:11.358
that if want anything[br]to fundamentally change --

0:12:11.358,0:12:14.993
not just to reform our policies[br]on bail and fines and fees --

0:12:14.993,0:12:17.902
but also to make sure that whatever[br]new policies replace those

0:12:17.902,0:12:20.908
don't punish the poor and the marginalized[br]in their own new way.

0:12:20.908,0:12:22.801
If we want that kind of change,

0:12:22.801,0:12:25.334
then this shift in thinking[br]is required of each of us.

0:12:25.334,0:12:26.401
Thank you.

0:12:26.401,0:12:27.561
(Applause)