1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:04,855 (Talks at Google - Peter Gabriel - October 2nd, 2012) 2 00:00:04,855 --> 00:00:13,652 [Applause] 3 00:00:14,517 --> 00:00:15,855 Hi there, 4 00:00:17,988 --> 00:00:26,933 [Introducing] Peter Gabriel, Google - Google, Peter Gabriel. 5 00:00:27,517 --> 00:00:31,135 [Applause] 6 00:00:31,135 --> 00:00:35,171 So this is another Talks at Google event and we're very, very pleased 7 00:00:35,171 --> 00:00:36,171 to welcome musician, artist and activist Peter Gabriel today. 8 00:00:36,171 --> 00:00:40,439 We are going to have the great chance to ask him questions 9 00:00:40,439 --> 00:00:42,162 about his current tour and the 25th anniversary of "So" 10 00:00:42,162 --> 00:00:44,623 which is going to be released actually at the end of October, 11 00:00:44,623 --> 00:00:45,623 on October 22nd, 12 00:00:45,623 --> 00:00:49,103 and we'll have also some chance for the audience to ask him questions as well. 13 00:00:49,103 --> 00:00:51,337 So why don't we get started? 14 00:00:51,337 --> 00:00:52,337 You 're here on tour, in the middle of the tour. 15 00:00:52,337 --> 00:00:56,383 And what was the story behind the tour? How did it come to be? 16 00:00:57,369 --> 00:01:00,182 [Peter Gabriel] Well, there were a number of things, 17 00:01:00,182 --> 00:01:02,389 I mean I have never really done a retro tour before 18 00:01:02,389 --> 00:01:06,032 and I was pretty resistant, you know. 19 00:01:06,856 --> 00:01:09,613 I know Robert Plant quite well and we were chiding each other 20 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 on who was going to succumb to the big money first. 21 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 Anyway, I went to see the Beach Boys do Pet Sounds 22 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 which I always used to love. 23 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 And that convinced me that to see one of the records you enjoy 24 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 from start to finish was an actually good thing. 25 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 And that coincided with some nice offers, 26 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 so that was an easy decision. 27 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 I'm actually going to take a sabbatical year 28 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 with my family. 29 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 We've got a teacher coming out with us 30 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 and so it helps underwrite that sabbatical year as well. 31 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 There were a number of reasons but, 32 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 I decided to bring back the band that originally toured that record 33 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 and so that's been fun and we're actually having a great time. 34 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 We do the evening in three parts. 35 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 The first part is based on the idea that the process is often as interesting 36 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 if not more interesting than the final product. 37 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 So we start off with an unfinished song 38 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 and then we do sort of rehearsal mode with the house lights on, 39 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 that's the starter. 40 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 Then the main course is a few songs, 41 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 more electronic or electric versions of things 42 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 and then the last chunk, if you can get through all that 43 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 you get your dessert which is the "So" album. 44 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 So that's how it works. 45 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 [Interviewer] Specifically about the "SO" album, 46 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 you're playing, the actual tour is called "Back to front" 47 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 and that seems to be the sort of the format you just discussed 48 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 but playing "So", the track order that you have now 49 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 That wasn't the original track order, correct? 50 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 Well, this is an interesting diversion about technology, 51 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 because although I'm a big fan of vinyl 52 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 I was also a great fan of the digital world 53 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 because suddenly we could get more dynamics in the music 54 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 and there were restrictions in the vinyl world. 55 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 For example, the track "In your eyes" 56 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 I always wanted to go at the end of the record 57 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 But it has a good bass line there. 58 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 To get a fat bass line on a full vinyl record, 59 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 you can't put it near the end. 60 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 You have to have it nearer the beginning, 61 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 So, it went on the start of side two just because there wasn't enough room 62 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 for the needle to vibrate as it got close to the center. 63 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 so, then, when CDs came along, I was able to take that track 64 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 and put it back on the end where it always should have been. 65 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 And on this release that's coming up, it's a couple of variations. 66 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 As I understand, there's the CD itself rereleased and remastered 67 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 and that's the third time you remastered that ... 68 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 Yes, as long as people keep buying it we'll remaster it (audience laughs) 69 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 And then, it's going to be a comprehensive boxed set 70 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 that's got both CDs, material that hasn't been released yet 71 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 and also a DVD with some concert footage, and you've been sitting on this, 72 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 this has been in the stores... 73 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 (Peter) Yeah, we'll throw any old shit in there. 74 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 Hey, it was old, get it in. 75 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 No, but there were a couple of things we were waiting for the right day, 76 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 You know, you always get more interested in the latest thing 77 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 so we'd sort of forgotten about that. 78 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 Also we shot the film, the show, 25, 26 years ago 79 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 Scorcese had been producing 80 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 and he had got this wonderful cinematographer doing it 81 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 and we hadn't realised quite what we had, So we went back to the film, 82 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 I mean tons of film cans had to be carefully resurrected 83 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 and then we took all the data off the film 84 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 and then had a much better resolution version 85 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 of that concert that we had done previously. 86 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 (Interviewer) And the actual production of "So" 87 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 and also some of the videos documenting that... 88 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 Over what time period did that actually happen? 89 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 From when you thought about the album you did originally 90 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 to getting it out the door? 91 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 (Peter) So on this latest thing...? 92 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 (Interviewer) The original. 93 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 I think that just sort of happened as things came up. 94 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 There wasn't really a brillant master plan. 95 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 You know, when we finish this then what else do we need to do? 96 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 We were trying film things, 97 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 I mean, again, if you have the opportunity to have two gigs in the same place 98 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 then it makes filming a lot easier 'cause you can do the set up, 99 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 and all the mistakes you make on the first day 100 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 you can try and sort out on the second day. 101 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 And we did that in Greece as well. 102 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 So, when you're approaching songwriting, 103 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 maybe at the time you're approaching songwriting, 104 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 With regards to "So", 105 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 did you have a list of songs and then say, "OK, right, 106 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 I'm going to select these musicians to start working with" 107 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 or were you writing and recording at the same time? 108 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 I'm always writing lyrics until the day it's released, really. 109 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 I'm slow with those, but there were a few ideas. 110 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 In fact, I had forgotten this but Manu and Tony said 111 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 that Sledgehammer was an afterthought. 112 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 There was a taxi, waiting to take Manu back to Paris 113 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 and we had an hour left. 114 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 I think I said, I've got this new idea that maybe we could just put a demo down 115 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 and that was it. 116 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 I mean we carried on working on it cause it felt great, 117 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 but it was quite an after thought. 118 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 And then Sledgehammer also took on a life of its own 119 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 when it came to the video which you worked with Arvin on and others 120 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 My son, first, straightaway said, 121 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 "The chickens! That looks just like Wallace and Grommit!" 122 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 How did that come to be? 123 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 Actually, the man who did the chickens was the man who created Wallace and Grommit. 124 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 And I was working with this brilliant director 125 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 Steven R. Johnson and he brought in the Quay Brothers 126 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 who is a fantastic sort of dark East European looking animation. 127 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 And I saw they've now got a big thing at MOMA in New York. 128 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 And I bought an AARDman animation who were from down the road in Bristol. 129 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 Steven and I had a couple of weeks just bashing through ideas 130 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 and then we bought in the others. 131 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 And it was a really exciting creative brainstorming. 132 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 That's always been one of the things I most enjoy about what I do 133 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 is working with people from different backgrounds, 134 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 often smarter than I am and just cooking something up. 135 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 So that was a great experience, but quite painful too 136 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 'cause we did everything the old fashioned way 137 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 frame by frame. 138 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 So when you see a sky moving across my face 139 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 that has been painted frame by frame 140 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 and the skin gets very raw. 141 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 And when you're under glass with a lot of raw fish, 142 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 on day one, that's fun, but day two ... at least you put the blame on the fish. 143 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 And that video I think is actually the most played video 144 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 ever on MTV. 145 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 I mean, granted, they don't play 146 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 quite as many videos these days, but still the fact...(laughter) 147 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 but that's a huge accomplishment. 148 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 Having been relatively young at that age, 149 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 It was so different from anything that was out there. 150 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 And it set a standard for an experience 151 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 that was getting you into the mind of the writer 152 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 and the artist in a different way. 153 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 An entertainment value that wasn't just for the sake of entertainment 154 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 but also telling a story. 155 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 Yeah, I think that what was great about videos then 156 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 is that there were people who wanted to watch them 157 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 and there was a budget and there were no rules. 158 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 So you could do what the hell you wanted 159 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 and there was no one there to say "No, this is the way we do it." 160 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 Back to songwriting, I want to ask 161 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 Mike Rutherford made the comment once that you're a frustrated drummer. 162 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 You started as a drummer in school. 163 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 Do you think you think more rhythmically, originally, about a song, 164 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 or do you think more melodically? 165 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 I think both. There are some things that are just based on melody, 166 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 but groove is what drove me into music. 167 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 I think drummers, they seem to be in command 168 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 of this really loud thing and it looks like a lot of fun. 169 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 And that's what I wanted to be. 170 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 I was very enthusiastic. Not very good. 171 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 And it was fine in the early days of Genesis 172 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 because we had guys who were good solid drummers 173 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 but they weren't that creative. 174 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 Then when we got Phil, 175 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 unfortunately he was a way better drummer than I was. 176 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 But I used to still have some bits of my drum kit onstage 177 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 and I would find my bass drum full of carpet. 178 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 Gradually these things were getting reduced, 179 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 so that was a subtle way of saying that maybe I wasn't the best timekeeper. 180 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 However, being a major drum fan 181 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 I worked with some of the best drummers in the world, I think. 182 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 And one of those is Stewart Copeland who is also a lousy timekeeper. 183 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 [Interviewer] Just don't tell that to Stewqrt Copeland. 184 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 No, I've told him, he'll say it himself, because he races. 185 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 But the energy he puts into his drumming and the attack on that is fantastic. 186 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 He does that brilliantly. 187 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 [Interviewer] On that album he played high-hat 188 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 Well, this is the thing; 189 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 I had so many wonderful drummers I could cut out bits and pieces 190 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 and get a bit of a high-hat from Stewart, a kick from Manu and whatever it was... 191 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 But I'm a bit obsessive as you might guess from this. 192 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 The groove has to be right. 193 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 We work quite hard trying to find 194 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 grooves that aren't the regular ones you're hearing on the radio. 195 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 [Interviewer] With having this band back on stage together, 196 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 are there some moments when you look around and it's déjà vu? 197 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 Yeah, and we all look exactly the same as we did twenty-five years ago. 198 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 Actually, a couple of the guys do, I wish I could say that. 199 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 It's a bit like family get-togethers, 200 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 because you end up with the same bunch of folk 201 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 doing exactly the same thing as you always did, 202 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 with all the pleasures and problems that went along the first time. 203 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 So, it feels very familiar but I'm enjoying it a lot. 204 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 [Interviewer] And as far as the way in which the songs evolve 205 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 when you're on tour, 206 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 there's that section that's defined as 'let's play with these more' 207 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 but do you also come back and rearrange the songs a little bit? 208 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 Are they the same songs 209 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 you started out with at the beginning of the tour 210 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 that you wind up with at the end? 211 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 Well, we try to get them right so we are tweaking, 212 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 every sound check we're trying to find a few weaknesses 213 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 and nail them. 214 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 We never used to play all those tracks together 215 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 partly because two of them were a bitch to get right. 216 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 We couldn't get them working. 217 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 So I think we're closing in on them anyway. 218 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 You do want to keep changing it. 219 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 However, I keep forgetting 220 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 because we did start off rehearsing some other stuff as well. 221 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 Now we've got things beginning to feel like a real show 222 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 and working properly, 223 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 then when you do change the numbers over 224 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 that means also that you need to re-program the lights 225 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 and all that stuff. 226 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 I think we will be doing that, getting some flexibility, 227 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 but gently. 228 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 [Interviewer] In a tour like this I know that you've always 229 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 put a lot of energy and time to make a concert a full experience, 230 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 not just 'OK, here's some nice lights and here are the songs' 231 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 played the best they can be 232 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 but also the experience of the songs, in a way. 233 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 How much time goes into prepping for a tour like this? 234 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 It's a fair bit, I've got some very smart people. 235 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 In fact, there was an idea, originally 25-26 years ago 236 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 when I was just doing videos 237 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 and I saw the cameras on these booms that were being manually operated. 238 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 I thought the way they moved was really cool. 239 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 So we replaced the cameras with lights 240 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 and now we've got lights with little cameras on them as well. 241 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 But they're still manually operated. 242 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 I'm working on another show after this which will be more robotic, I think. 243 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 But this one, I'm really enjoying the manual element. 244 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 It feels quite futuristic and retro simultaneously. 245 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 [Interviewer] And speaking of robots, you've always been 246 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 in Silicon-Valley-speak, and early-adopter of technology, 247 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 with CDRoms