WEBVTT 00:00:01.000 --> 00:00:02.000 [Vance Stevens] Posting posting 00:00:03.000 --> 00:00:05.000 Ah, here we are: we're there. 00:00:05.000 --> 00:00:09.000 With - this is learning 2gether, another episode of learning together, 00:00:09.000 --> 00:00:13.000 and this is the 14th of July. 00:00:14.000 --> 00:00:18.000 Happy independence day to any French we have listening. 00:00:19.000 --> 00:00:22.000 And of course the could be listening, if not live, on the stream. 00:00:22.000 --> 00:00:26.000 Well, they're not in the hangout, probably but we -- 00:00:27.000 --> 00:00:29.000 let's see, we also, we have recordings. 00:00:29.000 --> 00:00:31.000 So you might be listening on the recording. 00:00:31.000 --> 00:00:34.000 So this is July 14, 2013. 00:00:34.000 --> 00:00:39.000 We're going to have a discussion today about Amara, amara.org, 00:00:39.000 --> 00:00:46.000 which is a little captioning, or what do you call them?, 00:00:46.000 --> 00:00:54.000 a - little tag at the bottom: transcribes the lyrics for you, 00:00:54.000 --> 00:00:59.000 or you transcribe the lyrics and it helps you make lyrics to media. 00:01:00.000 --> 00:01:04.000 So we're going to find out what kind of media you can use and possibly some alternatives 00:01:04.000 --> 00:01:08.000 that might -- that some of us have been playing with it. 00:01:08.000 --> 00:01:11.000 I was playing with it earlier today and I found it really easy to use. 00:01:11.000 --> 00:01:14.000 And so, it's just an interesting tool I-- 00:01:14.000 --> 00:01:23.000 we got interested in it because Claude and Lucia - and I think that's Lucia I recognized a little ago: 00:01:23.000 --> 00:01:27.000 Hi Lucia. She's just joined us. Your name just came up. 00:01:27.000 --> 00:01:32.000 She did a lot of work transcribing our last MOOC session that we had. 00:01:32.000 --> 00:01:38.000 And so we've got recording of that, MP3 recordings, YouTube recordings and also now, this transcription, 00:01:38.000 --> 00:01:41.000 which has been a little bit cleaned up through crowdsourcing. 00:01:42.000 --> 00:01:47.000 So, welcome everybody. Maybe we can go round and have people introduce themselves 00:01:47.000 --> 00:01:49.000 and say who's here. 00:01:50.000 --> 00:01:52.000 Test your mike. 00:01:54.000 --> 00:01:57.000 [Nina Liakos] So, being to your right, I will -- [Vance] There you are 00:01:57.000 --> 00:02:00.000 [Nina]--introduce myself: my name is Nina Liakos. 00:02:00.000 --> 00:02:04.000 I'm experimenting with my lower third and unable to move my flag from right to left. 00:02:06.000 --> 00:02:09.000 [Vance] No, it's just right: you're looking out to it [Nina] Oh, I'm looking at [inaudible] 00:02:09.000 --> 00:02:10.000 [Vance] We're looking into it. 00:02:10.000 --> 00:02:13.000 [Nina] OK then, all right [Vance] Yeah, yeah. 00:02:13.000 --> 00:02:15.000 [Nina] Does it say were I work? 00:02:15.000 --> 00:02:17.000 I tried to put that. [Vance] Maryland English Institute... 00:02:17.000 --> 00:02:20.000 [Nina] Yeah! It worked! And what's a preset? 00:02:21.000 --> 00:02:23.000 [Vance] A preset? I don't know. 00:02:23.000 --> 00:02:27.000 [Nina] It's telling me "Please enter a name for your preset first." Anyway: no matter. 00:02:27.000 --> 00:02:28.000 [Benjamin Stewart] You can now [check] 00:02:28.000 --> 00:02:30.000 Sorry: I was going to answer the question. 00:02:30.000 --> 00:02:36.000 The preset is just a way that you can actually set your lower third. 00:02:36.000 --> 00:02:41.000 So, you might have several lower thirds, depending on the type of interaction and community 00:02:41.000 --> 00:02:43.000 that you are participating in. 00:02:43.000 --> 00:02:44.000 And so, it's just a way to say this. 00:02:45.000 --> 00:02:48.000 [Nina] All right, thank you. 00:02:48.000 --> 00:02:53.000 So, yes, in addition to working there, I am also a WebHead 00:02:53.000 --> 00:02:58.000 and this year I'm the lead coordinator for the Electronic Village Online 00:02:58.000 --> 00:03:00.000 and trying to spread the word. 00:03:00.000 --> 00:03:08.000 The Call for Proposals is out and we'd love to have some of you guys put in proposals 00:03:09.000 --> 00:03:11.000 or participate, or both. 00:03:11.000 --> 00:03:14.000 And I'm outside Washington DC. [Vance] EVO sessions -- 00:03:14.000 --> 00:03:17.000 [Vance] evosessions.pbworks.com [check] 00:03:17.000 --> 00:03:19.000 [Vance] I've put the link in the text chat. [Nina] Yes, thank you. 00:03:19.000 --> 00:03:23.000 I'm also trying to get out of my hangout toolbars 00:03:23.000 --> 00:03:25.000 I will mute my mike. 00:03:25.000 --> 00:03:29.000 [Vance] Just click on the chat tool and it will put it over there [check] 00:03:29.000 --> 00:03:32.000 Ok! So next over is Lucia I believe 00:03:40.000 --> 00:03:44.000 I recall from the text chat that I just helped transcribe 00:03:44.000 --> 00:03:47.000 that Lucia was having trouble getting her mike going 00:03:47.000 --> 00:03:49.000 so you have to unmute yourself. 00:03:50.000 --> 00:03:52.000 Have you - is your mike working, Lucia? 00:03:55.000 --> 00:03:56.000 Maybe she doesn't.... 00:03:56.000 --> 00:03:57.000 Can you hear us? 00:03:58.000 --> 00:04:02.000 [Claude] She said she had problems with the audio now, 00:04:02.000 --> 00:04:06.000 [Claude] in the chat. [Vance] Ah, ok! Let's come back to...Oh,no! There she is! 00:04:06.000 --> 00:04:09.000 Maybe she's got it now. Lucia, Can you hear us? 00:04:12.000 --> 00:04:14.000 Maybe... Shall we move to Diana? 00:04:14.000 --> 00:04:16.000 And then we'll come back to Lucia. 00:04:17.000 --> 00:04:23.000 [Diana] Hallo everyone! I'm a newbie here, and I'm very happy to be here with you. 00:04:23.000 --> 00:04:26.000 So I'm the tutor of English from Ukraine 00:04:26.000 --> 00:04:35.000 and, well, I'm trying when I have just some time off my job I have 00:04:35.000 --> 00:04:42.000 well, you know, I have joined several groups and tried to learn new things 00:04:42.000 --> 00:04:44.000 which I really loved to do. 00:04:44.000 --> 00:04:48.000 So Life Long Learning: this is my motto. 00:04:48.000 --> 00:04:50.000 So, I'm learning! 00:04:50.000 --> 00:04:53.000 [Vance] Good ! Do you know Lena [check]? 00:04:54.000 --> 00:04:56.000 [Vance] Are you calling [check] sorry? [Diana] No 00:04:56.000 --> 00:05:02.000 [Vance] Oh, OK, well, she is ... somebody who joins us from Ukraine every now and then. 00:05:02.000 --> 00:05:04.000 [Diana] Ok, no, I don't know her. 00:05:05.000 --> 00:05:06.000 [Vance] Ok! Claude? (5:05) 00:05:07.000 --> 00:05:17.000 [Claude] I'm Claude Almansi and I started using subtitling tools, sort of 7 years ago. 00:05:17.000 --> 00:05:23.000 And I was immediatel fascinated by the possibility for education. 00:05:23.000 --> 00:05:29.000 I mean, subtitling is first and foremost for including deaf people, 00:05:29.000 --> 00:05:34.000 but as soon as I saw how it worked, I thought what a good thing for education. 00:05:35.000 --> 00:05:42.000 And I'll try to present some of the things we can do with subtitling tools in schools. 00:05:45.000 --> 00:05:48.000 [Vance] OK. Next over is Benamin Stewart who has -- 00:05:48.000 --> 00:05:54.000 I'm going on vacation after this week, and Benjamin is stepping in next week 00:05:54.000 --> 00:05:58.000 to try to help keep Learning 2gether moving forward, 00:05:58.000 --> 00:06:02.000 and any volunteers who want to come forward in the next couple of weeks, 00:06:02.000 --> 00:06:06.000 we have -- Benjamin has actually set up a Google Doc for that, 00:06:06.000 --> 00:06:09.000 so you can enter your name there, or you can also write on the wiki. 00:06:09.000 --> 00:06:13.000 Anyhow, that's an aside, but thank you very much, Benjamin, for doing that 00:06:13.000 --> 00:06:15.000 and tell us about yourself. 00:06:16.000 --> 00:06:18.000 [Benajamin] Sure, and I'll try to include that link a little bit later 00:06:18.000 --> 00:06:22.000 for those of you who are either watching this recording, or -- 00:06:22.000 --> 00:06:28.000 for those who wish to be participating in the coming weeks, in your absence, Vance, 00:06:28.000 --> 00:06:31.000 ............ my name is Benjamin Stewart [check] (6:31) 00:06:31.000 --> 00:06:34.000 and I'm an American, and I live in Aguascalientes, Mexico, 00:06:34.000 --> 00:06:39.000 and I teach free service English teachers at the public university here 00:06:39.000 --> 00:06:44.000 and I have my website here and if you want to know a little bit more, 00:06:44.000 --> 00:06:47.000 I'll include the link here in my lower third. 00:06:47.000 --> 00:06:52.000 So, I'm happy to be here and look forward to learning more about Amara. 00:06:54.000 --> 00:07:01.000 [Vance] And that jo on the far end is Andreas. Andreas, nice to see you. How are you? 00:07:03.000 --> 00:07:07.000 [Andreas Formiconi] Hello. I'm fine, thank you. Hello to everybodyy. 00:07:07.000 --> 00:07:08.000 Thank you, Vance. 00:07:08.000 --> 00:07:18.000 I'm here because Lucia is a student of mine in some sort of online courses I'm giving. 00:07:20.000 --> 00:07:27.000 Claude is claiming to be a student of mine too, actually she is a powerful co-worker. 00:07:28.000 --> 00:07:40.000 And I'm a physicist playing and hacking with education stuff since -- 00:07:41.000 --> 00:07:44.000 I don't know, some 10 years, something like that. 00:07:44.000 --> 00:07:54.000 Now I was trying to deliver a cMOOC, connectivist MOOC, last three months, 00:07:54.000 --> 00:07:58.000 and now I'm experimenting something different. 00:07:58.000 --> 00:08:00.000 So that's why I'm here. Thank you, Vance. 00:08:02.000 --> 00:08:04.000 [Vance] Yeah! What a nice MOOC it was, apparently, 00:08:04.000 --> 00:08:12.000 And well, OK, when we get Lucia back -- it looks like she has gone after some missing devices. 00:08:12.000 --> 00:08:15.000 But anyway, Claude, did you want to tell us a little bit about Amara? 00:08:16.000 --> 00:08:21.000 [Claude] Yes. Amara was first called Universal Subtitles 00:08:21.000 --> 00:08:27.000 and it's an online subtitling tool, which produces -- 00:08:27.000 --> 00:08:32.000 sorry, first one thing: I'm not going to make differences between captions and subtitles, 00:08:32.000 --> 00:08:37.000 because they are not the same for English English people and for English American people. 00:08:37.000 --> 00:08:44.000 So I'll say "subtitling" and then I'll say "translating" when you use already-made subtitles 00:08:44.000 --> 00:08:46.000 to make them in another language. 00:08:47.000 --> 00:08:51.000 So, Amara started as Universal Subtitles 00:08:51.000 --> 00:08:58.000 and the great advantage of it, and Lucia will be able to testify to that, 00:08:59.000 --> 00:09:03.000 is that it is extremely simple to use. 00:09:03.000 --> 00:09:06.000 You just transcribe what you hear, 00:09:06.000 --> 00:09:10.000 and then you synchronize it with the audio. 00:09:10.000 --> 00:09:14.000 And then the software produces the subtitles. 00:09:14.000 --> 00:09:20.000 And that was the basic application, back in 2010. 00:09:21.000 --> 00:09:26.000 And then they added a lot of other things and it became a little less simple, 00:09:26.000 --> 00:09:32.000 but it remains still the simplest way of producing subtitles for a video. 00:09:33.000 --> 00:09:39.000 So apart from the interest for the deaf people, it's also very useful for schools, 00:09:39.000 --> 00:09:45.000 because -- I'm from Switzerland, so take a kindergarten in Switzerland 00:09:45.000 --> 00:09:51.000 where they speak dialect, a sort of esoteric Swiss-German dialect: 00:09:51.000 --> 00:09:56.000 the teacher could make a video, subtitle it in German, 00:09:56.000 --> 00:10:01.000 then other people could translate the subtitles in all sorts of languages, 00:10:01.000 --> 00:10:05.000 and that video would have an audience with all the other teachers, 00:10:05.000 --> 00:10:09.000 and maybe even kids of kindergarten, this way. 00:10:10.000 --> 00:10:15.000 So, this is why I've been using Amara for a long time. 00:10:16.000 --> 00:10:24.000 And then we can speak also of, say, alternative ways of using Amara after [inaudible: other voice overlapping] (10:24) 00:10:24.000 --> 00:10:26.000 [off voice] It's not taking it. 00:10:27.000 --> 00:10:30.000 [Vance] I'll see if... [Off voice] [inaudible] ... manual 00:10:30.000 --> 00:10:32.000 [Vance] Elaine here, OK? 00:10:32.000 --> 00:10:34.000 It might have worked. All right, OK 00:10:34.000 --> 00:10:38.000 She's trying to set herself up, obviously, getting some help. 00:10:38.000 --> 00:10:42.000 That's Elaine Marshall, and also Ana Cristina Pratas has just joined us. 00:10:42.000 --> 00:10:45.000 Is your mike working, Ana Cristina? 00:10:47.000 --> 00:10:50.000 No [laughs], OK. Well, we can read your lips. 00:10:50.000 --> 00:10:53.000 [Ana Cristina] I think it's working now, can you hear me? 00:10:53.000 --> 00:10:55.000 [Vance] Yes, we can, Ana, OK. 00:10:55.000 --> 00:10:58.000 [Ana Cristina] Good evening everybody, from Al Ain in the UA. 00:10:58.000 --> 00:11:01.000 Thank you very much, Vance and everybody. 00:11:02.000 --> 00:11:07.000 [Vance] OK. Claude was just telling us a little bit about Amara, that worked, 00:11:07.000 --> 00:11:13.000 and how easy it is to use to caption videos and other media, presumably. 00:11:17.000 --> 00:11:22.000 [Claude] Yes, I've even used it to translate text. 00:11:22.000 --> 00:11:26.000 I made a very long video without anything in it, 00:11:26.000 --> 00:11:32.000 then I created false subtitles from a short story by Cory Doctorow, 00:11:32.000 --> 00:11:39.000 and then I translated between the subtitles into Italian. 00:11:39.000 --> 00:11:44.000 That was quite fun to do, but it's not the best way of translating a text, 00:11:44.000 --> 00:11:45.000 but it works quite well. 00:11:45.000 --> 00:11:49.000 You can do all sorts of things with a subtitling tool, 00:11:50.000 --> 00:11:54.000 because basically, what it does is it allows you to transcribe 00:11:54.000 --> 00:12:00.000 and then to time if you want, but not per force, what you've transcribed. 00:12:01.000 --> 00:12:07.000 And then you can download the subtitles either as subtitles with the time indications, 00:12:07.000 --> 00:12:09.000 or just as a transcript 00:12:09.000 --> 00:12:19.000 and that, Andreas did this afternoon with Lucia's translation of the last meeting about the cMOOC: 00:12:19.000 --> 00:12:23.000 he downloaded the Italian translation and then he -- 00:12:24.000 --> 00:12:29.000 well, he actually edited it for readability, but he pasted it in his blog. 00:12:30.000 --> 00:12:39.000 And so, that's what I like about textual subtitling versus subtitling in a video, 00:12:39.000 --> 00:12:41.000 apart from the fact that I'm very clumsy with my hands 00:12:41.000 --> 00:12:46.000 and if I have to burn in subtitles in a video, it takes me hours. 00:12:46.000 --> 00:12:55.000 But it's also because if you have a separate text file that makes - that shows the subtitles in the video, 00:12:55.000 --> 00:12:59.000 you can then do all sorts of things with the text file. 00:13:01.000 --> 00:13:04.000 [Vance] Now, to make the text file, you have to do it yourself 00:13:04.000 --> 00:13:10.000 or can you - suppose YouTube already has a transcription of some sort 00:13:10.000 --> 00:13:11.000 can you use that? 00:13:12.000 --> 00:13:15.000 [Claude - laughs] Sometimes - sometime, Vance [Vance .... it is junk] 00:13:15.000 --> 00:13:21.000 [Claude] Now we've done that, I remember, with another subtitler, 00:13:21.000 --> 00:13:26.000 with a video of the US presidential campaign. 00:13:26.000 --> 00:13:33.000 It looked as if the automatic captions were reusable. 00:13:33.000 --> 00:13:37.000 So we stuck through it, but I mean, it was fun too, 00:13:37.000 --> 00:13:44.000 we didn't use Amara directly, we used something called Google Translator Toolkit 00:13:44.000 --> 00:13:50.000 which you can use from the video on YouTube when you already have subtitles. 00:13:50.000 --> 00:14:00.000 So, we asked PBS, because it was a PBS video, to just save the automatic subtitles 00:14:00.000 --> 00:14:06.000 as if they were really new subtitles, then ask for a translation into English of the English subtitles. 00:14:06.000 --> 00:14:12.000 Then we corrected - because what the Toolkit does is that it gives you the original subtitles 00:14:12.000 --> 00:14:15.000 and it gives you the automatic translation. 00:14:16.000 --> 00:14:22.000 So of course, there you had the Toolkit translating bad English into bad English. 00:14:22.000 --> 00:14:26.000 And then we just corrected the second part. 00:14:26.000 --> 00:14:29.000 It was fun, but I mean, we never did it again. 00:14:29.000 --> 00:14:33.000 I mean, it probably took us twice as much as, had we started from scratch. 00:14:33.000 --> 00:14:36.000 But it's going to become possible. 00:14:36.000 --> 00:14:44.000 Automatic captions are still total rubbish and you must never offer them for listening. 00:14:44.000 --> 00:14:45.000 That doesn't make sense. 00:14:45.000 --> 00:14:48.000 Sometimes it's very vulgar. 00:14:48.000 --> 00:14:56.000 There was one case of an Italian video of the Deaf Institute in Italy. 00:14:56.000 --> 00:15:01.000 At one point, a woman said "corona", which means "crown", 00:15:02.000 --> 00:15:08.000 and the autocaption said "fanculo", which means "fuck off". 00:15:09.000 --> 00:15:13.000 And there was no reason why "corona" should become "fanculo," 00:15:13.000 --> 00:15:15.000 I mean no phonetical reason. 00:15:15.000 --> 00:15:21.000 So it's better to - I mean if you have autocaptions on a YouTube video, 00:15:22.000 --> 00:15:29.000 it's much better to do real captions, because you'll find some appalling things in the autocaptions. 00:15:31.000 --> 00:15:36.000 I think I have some pretty funny ones in some of Andreas' own videos, actually, 00:15:37.000 --> 00:15:39.000 but I can't remember them offhand. 00:15:39.000 --> 00:15:46.000 But sometimes it works. It will work, I'd say, in a couple of years' time, 00:15:46.000 --> 00:15:49.000 this will completely change subtitling, 00:15:49.000 --> 00:15:56.000 because it's improving really all the time, the automatic [voice] recognition. 00:15:58.000 --> 00:16:03.000 [Vance] Just a quick word to Lucia, who is in the stream. 00:16:03.000 --> 00:16:07.000 Maybe Lowan [check] is there too: Lowan Dahaha [check] has been popping in and out. 00:16:07.000 --> 00:16:12.000 Right now we have 8 people in the hangout and there should be room for 10. 00:16:12.000 --> 00:16:15.000 So its' just an announcement in case you're listening on the stream: 00:16:15.000 --> 00:16:17.000 you should be able to get in if you act fast on this. 00:16:18.000 --> 00:16:20.000 One time offer [laughs] 00:16:20.000 --> 00:16:23.000 Anyway, we have two places actually, that's pretty good. 00:16:23.000 --> 00:16:28.000 OK. Are there any questions for Claude at this point or--? 00:16:28.000 --> 00:16:30.000 [Nina] I think I've a question [inaudible] 00:16:32.000 --> 00:16:35.000 the work in progress yesterday. 00:16:35.000 --> 00:16:42.000 [Nina] I joined Amara and I'm afraid [Vance] Move your headphone down. Headphone isn't-- 00:16:42.000 --> 00:16:44.000 [Nina] Can you hear -- Shall I start again? 00:16:44.000 --> 00:16:46.000 [Vance] That's better. [Nina] Yeah 00:16:46.000 --> 00:16:49.000 [Nina] I have raised it to eat my apple. 00:16:51.000 --> 00:17:00.000 So yesterday I was looking at the video that's not a video with Vance and you all. 00:17:00.000 --> 00:17:04.000 I couldn't manage to do anything with it. 00:17:04.000 --> 00:17:09.000 I mean, I couldn't -- I didn't recognize the different pages 00:17:09.000 --> 00:17:16.000 from the ......[check] text thing which is dragon pad or whatever - wherever the instructions were 00:17:16.000 --> 00:17:19.000 I couldn't recognize the pages I was on; 00:17:19.000 --> 00:17:23.000 when I would click on the subtitle, it looked like I should be able to edit it 00:17:23.000 --> 00:17:25.000 but I couldn't edit it. 00:17:25.000 --> 00:17:28.000 So I was just looking at it, but couldn't do anything. 00:17:28.000 --> 00:17:33.000 And I'm also afraid that I jumped in and linked my YouTube account to that as 00:17:33.000 --> 00:17:35.000 you then told me that I shouldn't do. 00:17:36.000 --> 00:17:39.000 So I wondered if I could undo that somehow. 00:17:39.000 --> 00:17:45.000 Anyway, so, that was my experience and I wonder if you could comment on that. 00:17:45.000 --> 00:17:50.000 [Claude] Yes, well, unlinking your YouTube account: 00:17:50.000 --> 00:17:55.000 you should have a link in your Amara account to do that. 00:17:55.000 --> 00:18:05.000 If not, you go to your Google Account and there is a setting, but then I can put the link maybe-- 00:18:05.000 --> 00:18:08.000 perhaps not right now, on how to do that. 00:18:08.000 --> 00:18:13.000 But from your Google account, you can also review all the apps you have authorized 00:18:13.000 --> 00:18:16.000 [Claude] to do things to your account. [Nina] OK. 00:18:16.000 --> 00:18:19.000 [Claude] and then you can revoke the authorization. 00:18:20.000 --> 00:18:24.000 Then you will still be landed with the link that Amara has put on your videos, 00:18:24.000 --> 00:18:27.000 and this you'll have to delete by hand. 00:18:27.000 --> 00:18:30.000 [Nina] What will it have put on all my videos? 00:18:30.000 --> 00:18:35.000 [Claude] Something saying: "Help us caption this video at..." 00:18:35.000 --> 00:18:38.000 and then there's a URL for an Amara page. 00:18:39.000 --> 00:18:44.000 [Nina] Actually, most of my videos are private, so it wouldn't make any difference anyway. 00:18:44.000 --> 00:18:47.000 [Claude] Ah, then you mustn't worry about that. 00:18:47.000 --> 00:18:54.000 But many people hadn't realized that when they had a video that was unlisted, 00:18:54.000 --> 00:18:59.000 it would get pumped to Amara with the link put and all that. 00:18:59.000 --> 00:19:02.000 At one point -- there's a thread in the help forum 00:19:02.000 --> 00:19:07.000 which was about asking for deletion of videos and subtitles. 00:19:07.000 --> 00:19:13.000 And they got so swamped by requests from people who had done the syncing 00:19:13.000 --> 00:19:15.000 but didn't mean the effect 00:19:15.000 --> 00:19:22.000 that they just changed the conditions and said they'd only delete videos 00:19:23.000 --> 00:19:26.000 when there was a DMCA takedown request 00:19:27.000 --> 00:19:35.000 which I thought was a little odd for something that was meant to be open and free in its spirit. 00:19:35.000 --> 00:19:40.000 But anyway, I mean, the trick is, if you've done that 00:19:40.000 --> 00:19:46.000 and then you find yourself with Amara pages for videos you don't want Amara pages for, 00:19:47.000 --> 00:19:53.000 you first of all unsync the two things, 00:19:53.000 --> 00:20:00.000 so you're not going to get the Amara subtitles fed automatically, without any possible control, 00:20:00.000 --> 00:20:02.000 to your YouTube videos. 00:20:04.000 --> 00:20:08.000 And then, well, if you then want to have the subtitles, 00:20:08.000 --> 00:20:10.000 you can start them on the Amara page 00:20:10.000 --> 00:20:15.000 and then YOU decide when you want to add them to YOUR videos, 00:20:15.000 --> 00:20:21.000 as Andreas has done with several of the videos that we subtitled in the L-- 00:20:23.000 --> 00:20:25.000 how do you pronounce that? -- well, in the cMOOC. 00:20:25.000 --> 00:20:33.000 And we made the subtitles and he fished them from the Amara page and he added them to his video. 00:20:33.000 --> 00:20:39.000 And unless you have thousands of videos, like, say, TED conferences, 00:20:39.000 --> 00:20:46.000 it really doesn't make sense to [inaudible: have subtitles fed automatically to your videos] 00:20:46.000 --> 00:20:52.000 it's easy to download a subtitle file and then add it to your YouTube video. 00:20:53.000 --> 00:20:55.000 I mean, there at least you've got control. 00:20:55.000 --> 00:21:04.000 The syncing to YouTube thing might be a good idea if they gave you this control about what's happening 00:21:04.000 --> 00:21:06.000 but they don't. 00:21:07.000 --> 00:21:11.000 And sometimes you get vandals. You know Gangnam Style? 00:21:12.000 --> 00:21:16.000 [Claude] You know the Gangnam Style video by PSY? [Nina, Vance] Yes. 00:21:17.000 --> 00:21:25.000 [Claude] Yeah, well, just before Xmas, someone vandalized the Spanish subtitles of that on Amara 00:21:25.000 --> 00:21:30.000 really vulgarly. I mean, I'm no prude, but that was really very vulgar. 00:21:31.000 --> 00:21:40.000 And that stopped there because there was no direct connection to the YouTube video, 00:21:40.000 --> 00:21:45.000 but otherwise, had PSY done that, had he synced his videos, 00:21:45.000 --> 00:21:50.000 extremely vulgar subtitles would have gone directly on his YouTube video -- 00:21:50.000 --> 00:21:57.000 with almost, back then a milliard, now - sorry: a billion - now certainly a billion views. 00:21:57.000 --> 00:22:01.000 I mean, it's really inciting vandalism, this sync, 00:22:01.000 --> 00:22:03.000 as it is set up. 00:22:03.000 --> 00:22:11.000 So if you can help me try to convince Amara to give people moderating control about 00:22:11.000 --> 00:22:16.000 what is getting back to their YouTube videos, I'd be very grateful, because there are too -- 00:22:16.000 --> 00:22:24.000 [Nina] Yeah, it makes me not actually - it makes me kind of reluctant to participate in this. 00:22:24.000 --> 00:22:31.000 It seems like we shouldn't be able to -- to change people's videos on YouTube. 00:22:31.000 --> 00:22:34.000 I mean, maybe you can make a new one with subtitles, 00:22:34.000 --> 00:22:38.000 but you shouldn't be able to change it irretrievably. 00:22:38.000 --> 00:22:44.000 [Claude] Exactly. That's really one of the issues: it's an issue -- 00:22:44.000 --> 00:22:47.000 and also there is an issue, vice versa, 00:22:47.000 --> 00:22:52.000 of people not knowing that their subtitles are going directly to YouTube. 00:22:52.000 --> 00:22:55.000 Of course, people can download them and add them. 00:22:55.000 --> 00:22:57.000 But then, if you find your subtitles this way, 00:22:57.000 --> 00:23:02.000 you can go to the person and say: "Hey, please say I've done the subtitles" or something. 00:23:02.000 --> 00:23:03.000 There's a communication. 00:23:03.000 --> 00:23:12.000 But if the person has synced accounts,there's no [garbled audio] (23:07) 00:23:12.000 --> 00:23:20.000 ... I didn't even know you had stuff and subtitles and things, the subtitles just arrived. 00:23:20.000 --> 00:23:29.000 But - sorry: I think this is a very important issue and I've been very sanguine about it on the help forum, 00:23:29.000 --> 00:23:36.000 but I think maybe it's better if we perhaps [inaudible] 00:23:36.000 --> 00:23:41.000 You mentioned [inaudible] Nina? 00:23:42.000 --> 00:23:48.000 [Nina] Yes. I'm sorry, you're kind of alternately freezing and I didn't get the question. 00:23:48.000 --> 00:23:53.000 [Claude] No - you had a problem with editing subtitles. 00:23:53.000 --> 00:23:56.000 [Nina] I wasn't able to edit anything. 00:23:57.000 --> 00:23:59.000 [Claude] The one you... [Nina] ... I was in the right place. 00:24:00.000 --> 00:24:07.000 [Claude] On the subtitle page, did you see the Edit link, on top right? 00:24:07.000 --> 00:24:10.000 [Vance] Yeah, there's a tab. It's an Edit tab. 00:24:11.000 --> 00:24:17.000 [Nina] I think I did. Let me go back and look at what I was looking at. 00:24:17.000 --> 00:24:22.000 [Vance] That lets you in, and then I think I didn't understand, there are three choices, 00:24:22.000 --> 00:24:25.000 one is cancel, discard and something else 00:24:25.000 --> 00:24:32.000 and I pressed something else, and it said "Are you just playing around? If so, please discard." 00:24:32.000 --> 00:24:33.000 [Vance] So that was just a... 00:24:33.000 --> 00:24:46.000 [Claude] Oh, you went through to the new editor, if you got that kind of message. 00:24:46.000 --> 00:24:49.000 [Vance] Oh? OK. Well, anyway, it was quite simple. 00:24:49.000 --> 00:24:53.000 [people talking together] 00:24:53.000 --> 00:24:58.000 [Benjamin] Yeah, I had a problem - oh, go ahead, Nina, sorry. 00:24:58.000 --> 00:25:02.000 [Nina] This is - that link is where I was and 00:25:07.000 --> 00:25:13.000 let's see, I'm trying to - because I clicked on English to view subtitles 00:25:13.000 --> 00:25:20.000 [Claude] and on top of the English page, you should have seen Edit - Edit subtitles. 00:25:23.000 --> 00:25:27.000 [Claude] Now, the link you gave is to the main page [Nina] I'm trying to click on it 00:25:27.000 --> 00:25:29.000 and it's not doing anything. 00:25:29.000 --> 00:25:31.000 OK, here it goes. 00:25:31.000 --> 00:25:39.000 All right. So, what I see at the top is: Subtitles Comments Revisions, and then 00:25:39.000 --> 00:25:44.000 higher than that, it's Subtitle videos Watch Volunteer Pro Services Help. 00:25:44.000 --> 00:25:47.000 [Claude] No no no, sorry. [Nina] Oh, I see it: Edit Subtitles 00:25:47.000 --> 00:25:50.000 I see it, I see it. OK. 00:25:52.000 --> 00:25:56.000 And "Somebody else is currently editing, so please wait and try again later." 00:25:57.000 --> 00:26:02.000 OK, yeah, I think I didn't - didn't see that tab. It was kind of grayed out. 00:26:02.000 --> 00:26:13.000 [Claude] Yes. [inaudible: I didn't know] that link to Stacy Weston's tutorial PDF 00:26:13.000 --> 00:26:22.000 which is actually much clearer because it's much better set up than 00:26:22.000 --> 00:26:25.000 [inaudible: the thing that we wrote in the piratepad] 00:26:27.000 --> 00:26:32.000 And if you want to try again, I'll try to get that link again. 00:26:32.000 --> 00:26:35.000 Oops - it (check) 00:26:35.000 --> 00:26:36.000 No, I can't. 00:26:36.000 --> 00:26:44.000 [Nina] Is it just happening to Claude's sound or is it everybody's sound that is sometimes... 00:26:45.000 --> 00:26:51.000 [Vance] Claude's sound. Yes, it's kind of, it's just getting a little tinny, 00:26:51.000 --> 00:26:54.000 it's obviously a bandwidth issue. 00:26:54.000 --> 00:26:57.000 But anyway, don't worry about it: it's only happening sometimes. 00:26:57.000 --> 00:26:59.000 So, carry on. 00:26:59.000 --> 00:27:02.000 [Nina] When that happens, I can't get anything. 00:27:02.000 --> 00:27:03.000 [Vance] Hm hm. 00:27:05.000 --> 00:27:07.000 [Vance] So Benjamin, you had a comment? 00:27:07.000 --> 00:27:09.000 [Benjamin] Yeah, a question actually. 00:27:09.000 --> 00:27:14.000 I understand that there is an automatic pause function or option. 00:27:14.000 --> 00:27:21.000 And yesterday I spent a few minutes trying to edit video, a YouTube video, to add some subtitles, 00:27:21.000 --> 00:27:27.000 and I was able to add the video and - but I started off trying to use the automatic pause - 00:27:27.000 --> 00:27:30.000 I don't remember exactly how it's labeled - function and I couldn't get that to work, 00:27:30.000 --> 00:27:36.000 so then I went to using just the Tab and the Shift Tab to play the video 4 seconds, 00:27:36.000 --> 00:27:38.000 or repeat the video, and that worked very well. 00:27:38.000 --> 00:27:43.000 So I was able to very quickly add subtitles using the Tab function. 00:27:43.000 --> 00:27:45.000 But I wasn't able to use the automatic function, 00:27:45.000 --> 00:27:48.000 so that was one of the two problems that I had yesterday. 00:27:49.000 --> 00:27:55.000 How is the automatic pause function supposed to work or -- 00:27:55.000 --> 00:28:00.000 and should this work on all browsers? 00:28:02.000 --> 00:28:10.000 [Claude] I must say I tried the automatic function, what, 5 times, just hated it and never use it. 00:28:11.000 --> 00:28:16.000 I use, like you, the tab pause stopping and then restarting the video. 00:28:16.000 --> 00:28:20.000 And the 4-second one, the one for beginners, is quite good too, 00:28:20.000 --> 00:28:24.000 except that at times, 4 seconds end in the middle of a sentence. 00:28:24.000 --> 00:28:28.000 I used the advanced from the start [check]. I think that's the easiest one, 00:28:28.000 --> 00:28:35.000 even if they say that the automatic pause one is the best one. 00:28:35.000 --> 00:28:42.000 But I really dislike the automatic, because if you have a language issue, it won't stop when you want, etc. 00:28:42.000 --> 00:28:45.000 So I just skipped that one, I've never used that. 00:28:45.000 --> 00:28:48.000 I mean, except for trying at the very beginning. 00:28:49.000 --> 00:28:54.000 [Benjamin] I'm sorry, and how does the advanced function work? -- or feature? 00:28:54.000 --> 00:28:58.000 Exactly like the 4-second one, except that you don't have the 4-second pause: 00:28:58.000 --> 00:29:06.000 you only use your Tab to stop and restart, and you use Shift Tab to rewind. 00:29:06.000 --> 00:29:12.000 And the rewind, sometimes they say it's 4 seconds, sometimes they say it's 8 seconds 00:29:12.000 --> 00:29:17.000 and sometimes, in fact, it's more than 8 seconds, actually. 00:29:17.000 --> 00:29:24.000 But it doesn't really matter. I mean that's, say, that's the weak point of the traditional editor. 00:29:24.000 --> 00:29:31.000 It's rewinding: it rewinds too much. Other editors have just 1-second rewind, which is much more sensible. 00:29:31.000 --> 00:29:34.000 But this changes with the new editor. 00:29:34.000 --> 00:29:43.000 In the new editor, the command is back and forward to the next and former subtitle. 00:29:43.000 --> 00:29:45.000 And that's very sensible. 00:29:45.000 --> 00:29:51.000 That's the same thing you actually have -- in YouTube, you even have a subtitle editor 00:29:51.000 --> 00:29:57.000 and it works like that, and it's the same thing as well in other subtitling tools, 00:29:57.000 --> 00:30:01.000 where you can move from subtitle to subtitle. 00:30:01.000 --> 00:30:13.000 The most, the finest navigation tool, I think, is in DotSUB. I'll write that here. That's-- 00:30:13.000 --> 00:30:17.000 [Benjamin] If I could ask you a second part to another problem I was having 00:30:17.000 --> 00:30:25.000 I was able to advance to next, well phase I guess: there are kind of 3 or 4 steps that are involved. 00:30:25.000 --> 00:30:31.000 I was able to to the syncing stage but I was not able to get the syncing to work at all. 00:30:31.000 --> 00:30:36.000 I couldn't figure it out [check], just in the few minutes I was trying to play around with it, 00:30:36.000 --> 00:30:44.000 it looks like you -- you play the video and there is a red kind of vertical line that progresses, 00:30:44.000 --> 00:30:47.000 that you choose where you want to insert the subtitle. 00:30:47.000 --> 00:30:53.000 And I couldn't get that -- either couldn't get it to work or couldn't figure it out. 00:30:53.000 --> 00:31:00.000 Is that -- I guess it's working properly -- I'm assuming I just did something wrong. 00:31:00.000 --> 00:31:02.000 But could you explain a little bit how that works? 00:31:03.000 --> 00:31:09.000 [Claude] Yes, again, I'm going to speak about the editor that comes up normally, 00:31:09.000 --> 00:31:15.000 not the one you get to if you say you want to try the beta new editor, 00:31:15.000 --> 00:31:20.000 because the beta new editor is another kettle of fish. So let's stick to the main one. 00:31:21.000 --> 00:31:26.000 Yes. What you do when you want to sync, synchronize your transcript, 00:31:26.000 --> 00:31:35.000 you use that [Tab] key to stop and start the video. 00:31:35.000 --> 00:31:40.000 So when you get at the end of a subtitle, you stop the video and then, 00:31:40.000 --> 00:31:48.000 you click on the buttons that are indicated on the right to mark the end of the subtitle. 00:31:50.000 --> 00:31:52.000 Is that clear? 00:31:54.000 --> 00:31:57.000 [Benjamin] Err, yeah. I'll have to try, to experiment with this. 00:31:57.000 --> 00:32:01.000 It's kind of hard to see. 00:32:01.000 --> 00:32:07.000 [Claude] Yes. I have linked again Lucy Weston's tutorial, which is extremely good. 00:32:07.000 --> 00:32:14.000 And then DotSUB.com shouldn't be below that: that's another message I've added. 00:32:14.000 --> 00:32:22.000 But the "How to create captions using Amara" .pdf is really extremely good. 00:32:22.000 --> 00:32:27.000 And she's got great screen captures as well, 00:32:28.000 --> 00:32:33.000 and it is more up to date than Amara's own documentation. 00:32:34.000 --> 00:32:37.000 [Benjamin] I don't suppose you have the link to-- [Claude] I've put it 00:32:37.000 --> 00:32:42.000 [Benjamin] a link to maybe a demonstration where it takes the viewer 00:32:42.000 --> 00:32:46.000 through the whole process of adding subtitles? 00:32:46.000 --> 00:32:48.000 [inaudible] 00:32:48.000 --> 00:32:54.000 [Claude] Yes in - I'd have to find the piratepad again, but in the piratepad thing, 00:32:54.000 --> 00:33:01.000 yes, I have the links also to the subtitled versions of the tutorials that do appear 00:33:01.000 --> 00:33:03.000 as you are using the tool. 00:33:03.000 --> 00:33:06.000 Didn't you see the video first? 00:33:06.000 --> 00:33:10.000 You know, before you started writing, didn't you see the video? 00:33:10.000 --> 00:33:13.000 It should have shown you a video. 00:33:13.000 --> 00:33:18.000 But anyway, as this is not always appearing, I've got that in the piratepad somewhere. 00:33:19.000 --> 00:33:22.000 I'll get the URL of the piratepad. 00:33:23.000 --> 00:33:25.000 [Nina] Yes, I just saw it and it's there. 00:33:27.000 --> 00:33:31.000 [Vance] I'm chatting with Lucia - let's see, there is the piratepad up here somewhere. 00:33:31.000 --> 00:33:37.000 I can't recognize its -- anyway we'll find it in a moment. 00:33:37.000 --> 00:33:42.000 But I'm chatting with Lucia and asked her. 00:33:42.000 --> 00:33:48.000 She said that when I subtitled, she got an e-mail with my revisions. 00:33:48.000 --> 00:33:55.000 So I asked her if you can revert Amara back to previous versions. 00:33:55.000 --> 00:33:58.000 She says yes, you can recover any version on Amara, 00:33:58.000 --> 00:34:01.000 so I suppose that's one answer to vandalism. 00:34:03.000 --> 00:34:10.000 And she also said that Benjamin was asking about automatic pause and she has typed: 00:34:10.000 --> 00:34:15.000 "When you're listening you st -- and suddenly you start typing without touching the tab key: 00:34:15.000 --> 00:34:17.000 the audio stops automatically." 00:34:18.000 --> 00:34:21.000 So I don't know: it was an answer to one of your questions, Benjamin. 00:34:21.000 --> 00:34:23.000 Is that satisfactory? 00:34:25.000 --> 00:34:29.000 [Vance(?)] -- as I can't remember the question it was an answer to. 00:34:30.000 --> 00:34:34.000 [Claude] It was about automatic mode in transcribing. 00:34:34.000 --> 00:34:44.000 OK, then, if Lucia can do that, that's good. It's just that I find it very difficult to use. 00:34:44.000 --> 00:34:49.000 But I mean, you can try it: Lucia's description seems very convincing. 00:34:50.000 --> 00:34:52.000 [Nina] So I have another question: 00:34:53.000 --> 00:34:59.000 I like to use songs on YouTube and that's really great when I find songs with-- 00:35:00.000 --> 00:35:07.000 where the subtitles are already done. But sometimes they're -- wrong. 00:35:07.000 --> 00:35:14.000 Or sometimes they're bad English or sometimes they have no capitalization or punctuation. 00:35:15.000 --> 00:35:20.000 So, with Amara, can I edit those subtitles? 00:35:20.000 --> 00:35:23.000 which, for me, God knows how? 00:35:24.000 --> 00:35:26.000 Or would I have to start again? 00:35:26.000 --> 00:35:30.000 [Claude] It depends what kind of subtitles they are. 00:35:30.000 --> 00:35:32.000 If they are textual subtitles, yes. 00:35:32.000 --> 00:35:41.000 If you add the video to Amara, then the YouTube existing subtitles will be added to the Amara page 00:35:41.000 --> 00:35:43.000 and then you can edit them. 00:35:43.000 --> 00:35:55.000 [inaudible, repeated:] If they are burned in the video, then you have to recopy the thing, 00:35:55.000 --> 00:35:59.000 and then resync it and all that. 00:35:59.000 --> 00:36:07.000 But there is a team on Amara, which is called Music Captioning, where we have actually lots of songs 00:36:07.000 --> 00:36:13.000 and what we do usually is that we find a YouTube video which doesn't have captions, 00:36:13.000 --> 00:36:15.000 then we find the captions somewhere else, 00:36:15.000 --> 00:36:17.000 because there are lots of songs 00:36:17.000 --> 00:36:20.000 that already have their captions somewhere else, [note: I meant written lyrics, not captions; same in next ST] 00:36:20.000 --> 00:36:27.000 and then we use the existing captions just by copy-pasting or by uploading them as transcript 00:36:28.000 --> 00:36:32.000 and then we correct that and we sync that. 00:36:33.000 --> 00:36:38.000 And there is -- I don't know if any of you know Richard Gresswell? 00:36:38.000 --> 00:36:42.000 He teaches English in Bulgaria and he has a marvelous site 00:36:42.000 --> 00:36:46.000 - I think I mentioned it somewhere in the pad - 00:36:47.000 --> 00:36:53.000 with songs with subtitles and then under there, also activities 00:36:53.000 --> 00:36:58.000 that can be done with the songs and subtitles. 00:36:58.000 --> 00:37:03.000 And he uses Amara subtitling for that. 00:37:04.000 --> 00:37:07.000 And he is a member of the Music Captioning team. 00:37:09.000 --> 00:37:13.000 [Ana Cristina] I have a question, if I may. [Claude] Sure. 00:37:13.000 --> 00:37:21.000 [Ana Cristina] Claude, initially you talked about some lexical gaps that sometimes happen 00:37:21.000 --> 00:37:25.000 and you gave the example of Spanish and Italian. 00:37:25.000 --> 00:37:30.000 I work in the Middle East and the script is different. 00:37:30.000 --> 00:37:37.000 I also teach online occasionally to Nepal, where the script is different again. 00:37:38.000 --> 00:37:45.000 Does Amara translate scripts which are non Roman scripts? 00:37:45.000 --> 00:37:51.000 [Claude] Yes. Amara uses what is called UTF-8 encoding. 00:37:51.000 --> 00:37:57.000 So if a script has a UTF-8 encoding, it works. 00:37:57.000 --> 00:38:03.000 So if you have -- you have for example three kinds of Chinese subtitles. 00:38:03.000 --> 00:38:08.000 And I don't know Chinese, so I don't know if the scripts also vary, 00:38:08.000 --> 00:38:15.000 but it's according to how literary or how [inaudible] the language is. 00:38:15.000 --> 00:38:22.000 You can have Japanese, you have Thai, you now have Urdu, which took a long time, you have Hindi. 00:38:22.000 --> 00:38:25.000 And yes: I'm not sure about Nepalese, I could -- 00:38:26.000 --> 00:38:33.000 What you can do is check that by trying to translate some existing subtitles 00:38:33.000 --> 00:38:35.000 and you'll have all the languages. 00:38:36.000 --> 00:38:42.000 [Ana Cristina] Great: including Arabic? Everybody (check} including Arabic? 00:38:42.000 --> 00:38:44.000 [Claude] Yes. [Ana Cristina] Wow, great. 00:38:44.000 --> 00:38:50.000 [Claude] Yes, yes: Arabic, certainly. [Ana Cristina] Thank you. [Claude] My pleasure. 00:38:52.000 --> 00:38:56.000 [Vance] I mentioned I've been playing with a tool called Instreamia 00:38:57.000 --> 00:39:00.000 and actually this is my experience of captioning 00:39:00.000 --> 00:39:01.000 and I'm trying to... 00:39:01.000 --> 00:39:04.000 because that's what I know I'm trying to put together 00:39:04.000 --> 00:39:06.000 the similarities between the two and 00:39:06.000 --> 00:39:10.000 Instreamia isn't open source. 00:39:10.000 --> 00:39:12.000 It produces opensource artefacts but it doesn't 00:39:12.000 --> 00:39:15.000 it's not something you can just [check] 00:39:15.000 --> 00:39:17.000 I [check] because I partecipated in a LCMOOC 00:39:17.000 --> 00:39:21.000 in which they told us everybody was on an 00:39:21.000 --> 00:39:23.000 Instreamia accounts for a year. 00:39:23.000 --> 00:39:25.000 But anyway, I've been playing with it 00:39:25.000 --> 00:39:28.000 and Instreamia does a lot of things 00:39:28.000 --> 00:39:31.000 it has a [check] just beyond captioning 00:39:31.000 --> 00:39:35.000 but the captioning is the one I have been using most 00:39:35.000 --> 00:39:40.000 and I'm finding that sometimes I try to get a transcription 00:39:40.000 --> 00:39:44.000 of you tube videos and pull them in 00:39:44.000 --> 00:39:48.000 and, of course, you have to do... 00:39:48.000 --> 00:39:50.000 sometimes it does a lot of work for you 00:39:50.000 --> 00:39:51.000 and sometimes not much work at all. 00:39:51.000 --> 00:39:53.000 But it's quite [check] 00:39:53.000 --> 00:39:55.000 It's much better od course if you can do 00:39:55.000 --> 00:39:57.000 what you just suggested in, say 00:39:57.000 --> 00:39:59.000 use a music video, where you can go to lyrics 00:39:59.000 --> 00:40:02.000 a lyric site and get the lyrics there, 00:40:02.000 --> 00:40:04.000 then use those 00:40:04.000 --> 00:40:07.000 syncronize the lyrics NOTE Paragraph 00:40:07.000 --> 00:40:14.000 but, anyhow... I'm just.... it's... 00:40:14.000 --> 00:40:16.000 So I know how that works 00:40:16.000 --> 00:40:18.000 you find... 00:40:18.000 --> 00:40:20.000 it works only with youtube videos 00:40:20.000 --> 00:40:22.000 so the video has to be on youtube 00:40:22.000 --> 00:40:24.000 but it... 00:40:24.000 --> 00:40:26.000 the youtube itself isn't altering 00:40:26.000 --> 00:40:29.000 It plays in the Instreamia interface 00:40:29.000 --> 00:40:31.000 and captions come up 00:40:31.000 --> 00:40:35.000 below the video and like Amara you can edit 00:40:35.000 --> 00:40:39.000 those captions and you can change the syncronization 00:40:40.000 --> 00:40:42.000 also it does some [check] on them 00:40:42.000 --> 00:40:48.000 and allow and does some grammar, grammatical exercise 00:40:48.000 --> 00:40:53.000 some vocabulary work, and things like 00:40:53.000 --> 00:40:55.000 that [check] 00:40:55.000 --> 00:40:58.000 [Claude] Oh, and that's free! 00:40:58.000 --> 00:41:00.000 [Vance] Yeah, it's kind of [check] in that respect, but of course 00:41:00.000 --> 00:41:02.000 I [check] use that much, I... 00:41:02.000 --> 00:41:05.000 It's very interesting if you 00:41:05.000 --> 00:41:07.000 can go actually to Instreamia.com and you can 00:41:07.000 --> 00:41:12.000 explore some of the things, videos that the people put there 00:41:12.000 --> 00:41:13.000 because, in theory, that is open source 00:41:13.000 --> 00:41:19.000 or better, it's open ...artefacts... open educational resources, let's put it that way, 00:41:19.000 --> 00:41:21.000 not open source, but they're open educational 00:41:21.000 --> 00:41:24.000 resources that anyyone can go and play with it. 00:41:24.000 --> 00:41:26.000 It's a lot of fun to go and find, say ,a Latin-Spanish 00:41:26.000 --> 00:41:32.000 video that has a really exuberant singer and 00:41:32.000 --> 00:41:36.000 you really want to understand that 00:41:36.000 --> 00:41:40.000 and you can get translations and you can get 00:41:40.000 --> 00:41:43.000 those as you're listening 00:41:43.000 --> 00:41:45.000 and it becomes a game to where 00:41:45.000 --> 00:41:48.000 you want to find a word 00:41:48.000 --> 00:41:51.000 a missing word from a choice of structures 00:41:52.000 --> 00:41:53.000 [voices overlap] 00:41:53.000 --> 00:41:58.000 [Claude] What I hadn't to [check] this [check] 00:41:58.000 --> 00:42:01.000 Instreamia will also prompt - I dont't 00:42:01.000 --> 00:42:06.000 know what the technical word is - automatic captions from Youtube? 00:42:06.000 --> 00:42:09.000 [Vance] Ah, well no! It uses whatever is in Youtube 00:42:09.000 --> 00:42:12.000 you know, Youtube apparently tries to caption everything. 00:42:12.000 --> 00:42:15.000 There usually is a transcript, sometimes there is 00:42:15.000 --> 00:42:18.000 sometimes there isn't, but transcripts that you find there is usually 00:42:18.000 --> 00:42:21.000 garbage, so, you know... 00:42:21.000 --> 00:42:26.000 [Claude] Will it be possible to transcript because Amara doesn't do that 00:42:26.000 --> 00:42:29.000 [Vance] Yes, it will! That's a nice thing about Instreamia 00:42:29.000 --> 00:42:31.000 It actually uses your transcript. When it downloads the video 00:42:31.000 --> 00:42:33.000 into Instreamia it downloads the transcript as well 00:42:33.000 --> 00:42:36.000 and syncronizes it, so that's work done for you 00:42:36.000 --> 00:42:39.000 [Claude] [inaudible] Sorry, even the automatic 00:42:39.000 --> 00:42:43.000 transcript made by Youtube gets pulled to Instreamia? 00:42:43.000 --> 00:42:45.000 [Vance] That's it. Whatever is there. 00:42:45.000 --> 00:42:47.000 Whatever is there 00:42:47.000 --> 00:42:49.000 [Claude] That's a difference with Amara. 00:42:49.000 --> 00:42:51.000 With Amara you have to cheat a little bit 00:42:51.000 --> 00:42:53.000 if you want automatic 00:42:53.000 --> 00:42:56.000 you have to pretend that it's s not automatic 00:42:56.000 --> 00:42:59.000 and save it as it were normal 00:42:59.000 --> 00:43:01.000 and then Amara will pump it 00:43:01.000 --> 00:43:07.000 but normally Amara only pumps humanly subtitles from Youtube 00:43:07.000 --> 00:43:08.000 [Vance] mmm, Yeah and sometimes 00:43:08.000 --> 00:43:10.000 [Claude] I also, yeah, sorry. 00:43:10.000 --> 00:43:15.000 [Vance] Oh well, sometimes subtitles will be closed caption 00:43:15.000 --> 00:43:18.000 and sometimes will use it different systems to [check] 00:43:18.000 --> 00:43:21.000 put some work into it and set up captions. 00:43:21.000 --> 00:43:23.000 [check] of different kinds. 00:43:23.000 --> 00:43:26.000 Sometimes you [check] attempt to... 00:43:26.000 --> 00:43:30.000 you put a transcript over a recording 00:43:30.000 --> 00:43:32.000 and sometimes it's fairly accurate, 00:43:32.000 --> 00:43:35.000 so that's very useful if you get one like that 00:43:35.000 --> 00:43:37.000 and you just make a few changes 00:43:37.000 --> 00:43:40.000 [voices overlap] 00:43:40.000 --> 00:43:46.000 [Ana Cristina] I've just one question for Vance, sorry, it's very quickly 00:43:46.000 --> 00:43:56.000 Have you done these captions with gap-fills for students 00:43:56.000 --> 00:43:59.000 or have you got the students to create 00:43:59.000 --> 00:44:01.000 the gap-fills for the video? 00:44:01.000 --> 00:44:04.000 [Vance] Well, that's done automatically 00:44:04.000 --> 00:44:07.000 I can...I'll put a link in the..., I can put a link here 00:44:07.000 --> 00:44:10.000 when I get a moment and 00:44:10.000 --> 00:44:13.000 when you [check] you go to.. 00:44:13.000 --> 00:44:16.000 the students go to my site [check] my 00:44:16.000 --> 00:44:19.000 Instreamia account and then they have yo create 00:44:19.000 --> 00:44:21.000 an account, which is very simple 00:44:21.000 --> 00:44:23.000 [Ana Cristina] mmm 00:44:23.000 --> 00:44:25.000 [Vance] you just [check] the email address and password 00:44:25.000 --> 00:44:28.000 and then you can see anything that's there in Instreamia 00:44:28.000 --> 00:44:30.000 So I guess you need to make an account but [check] 00:44:30.000 --> 00:44:35.000 an email address and a password and a username. 00:44:35.000 --> 00:44:39.000 But then you get the whole field, 00:44:39.000 --> 00:44:43.000 but I can give the link to mine, so you can see what's done 00:44:43.000 --> 00:44:45.000 but it basically does 00:44:45.000 --> 00:44:48.000 it makes about 10 or 15 different exercise types 00:44:48.000 --> 00:44:53.000 automatically based on natural language processing 00:44:53.000 --> 00:44:55.000 [check] 00:44:55.000 --> 00:44:58.000 As a very interesting product it doesn't work all that 00:44:58.000 --> 00:45:01.000 smoothly at the moment, but the concept is really interesting. 00:45:01.000 --> 00:45:04.000 And I wrote an article about it 00:45:04.000 --> 00:45:06.000 [check] 00:45:06.000 --> 00:45:08.000 that links it in the Piratepad 00:45:08.000 --> 00:45:11.000 [Ana Cristina] Great! Thank you, thank you! 00:45:11.000 --> 00:45:19.000 [Claude] And, Vance, can it use also downloads of subtitles as with Amara or not? 00:45:19.000 --> 00:45:25.000 [Vance] I don't think, no, I dont't think so 00:45:25.000 --> 00:45:27.000 I don't know people you can copy-paste 00:45:27.000 --> 00:45:31.000 That it sort comes one at a time 00:45:31.000 --> 00:45:34.000 I think once it's in Amara you can use it 00:45:34.000 --> 00:45:36.000 but there is not much you can really get out of it, so... 00:45:36.000 --> 00:45:37.000 [Claude] But I mean in Instreamia, in Instreamia 00:45:37.000 --> 00:45:40.000 [Vance] Ah Instreamia! I meant it in Instreamia 00:45:40.000 --> 00:45:45.000 [Claude] also [voices overlap] 00:45:45.000 --> 00:45:50.000 Because that's for me the really big advantage of tools like Amara 00:45:50.000 --> 00:45:54.000 which is the one this is about, but also Dot.sub or 00:45:54.000 --> 00:45:58.000 Subtitle-horse and I love Subtitle-horse because 00:45:58.000 --> 00:46:02.000 it's such a good name [46:00] 00:46:02.000 --> 00:46:06.000 The great advantages are that the subtitles can be downloaded 00:46:06.000 --> 00:46:09.000 and reused in other contexts. For example 00:46:09.000 --> 00:46:14.000 once I subtitled a video about missing people in Pakistan 00:46:14.000 --> 00:46:21.000 and I did that using this stuff and then I tried to convert to the time tools 00:46:21.000 --> 00:46:24.000 by hand [CHECK] 00:46:24.000 --> 00:46:26.000 So I tried with several 00:46:26.000 --> 00:46:30.000 [check] in the meantime 00:46:30.000 --> 00:46:32.000 and most of them sort of said: 'No. it's buggy' 00:46:32.000 --> 00:46:37.000 and one of them accepted and the [check] fixed subtitles. 00:46:37.000 --> 00:46:43.000 So that I was able to reuse them on the [check] platforms and that I think 00:46:43.000 --> 00:46:46.000 is really the great advantage of true 00:46:46.000 --> 00:46:50.000 Not only Amara. Amara is nice with [check] 00:46:50.000 --> 00:46:54.000 free and open source software. 00:46:54.000 --> 00:47:02.000 But of all those online subtitling sites that use open standard formats for download 00:47:02.000 --> 00:47:06.000 I... you can download subtitles as [inaudible] 00:47:06.000 --> 00:47:12.000 but you can also use .srt which is one of the formats of .spv 00:47:12.000 --> 00:47:19.000 And now there's a new format where you can use on Youtube - which is called web vtt 00:47:19.000 --> 00:47:21.000 and that's really fashinating because 00:47:21.000 --> 00:47:26.000 soon you'll be able to use that for script 00:47:26.000 --> 00:47:31.000 and audio description - you know, the description of things for the blind people 00:47:31.000 --> 00:47:36.000 and then browsers, in a couple of years time probably, will be able to 00:47:36.000 --> 00:47:39.000 do the vocal synthesis of that, so, 00:47:39.000 --> 00:47:46.000 instead of having to do their expensive process of recording and order description, 00:47:46.000 --> 00:47:50.000 inserting that in the video etc, 00:47:50.000 --> 00:47:53.000 blind people will be able to switch that on and off 00:47:53.000 --> 00:47:56.000 and, if the description is too long, it would stop the video 00:47:56.000 --> 00:48:00.000 while the description is read, and that's [check]. 00:48:00.000 --> 00:48:05.000 And I think... For me it's not so much [check] beyond the video 00:48:05.000 --> 00:48:08.000 Yes, that's nice and that's important 00:48:08.000 --> 00:48:15.000 but it's what you can do with the file that makes the subtitle here 00:48:15.000 --> 00:48:17.000 that I find fashinating. 00:48:17.000 --> 00:48:23.000 And in fact in these sort of alternative uses I indicate [check] 00:48:23.000 --> 00:48:26.000 that, say, you could 00:48:26.000 --> 00:48:28.000 Say you have not this hangout which [check] 00:48:28.000 --> 00:48:30.000 to last one hour. 00:48:30.000 --> 00:48:35.000 But sometimes you have conferences and then people don't video record 00:48:35.000 --> 00:48:38.000 it and you have [CHECK] 3 hours 00:48:38.000 --> 00:48:41.000 and they went back online 00:48:41.000 --> 00:48:44.000 of course nobody is going to listen to a 3 hour-video 00:48:44.000 --> 00:48:49.000 and just [check]and there's always you know the glitches noise and so on 00:48:49.000 --> 00:48:53.000 So, if you really want people to be able to use that 00:48:53.000 --> 00:48:56.000 for the first step edit it, cut it and 00:48:56.000 --> 00:49:02.000 digestible pieces and that you could do it with a subtitle tool 00:49:02.000 --> 00:49:05.000 because you don't have to write subtitles because it's a a subtitle tool 00:49:05.000 --> 00:49:10.000 you could [check] from there to there cut 00:49:10.000 --> 00:49:15.000 and so on , and then you use that and you have all your time to 00:49:15.000 --> 00:49:19.000 [check] what you want to cut and what you want to keep 00:49:19.000 --> 00:49:22.000 all you could have [check] 00:49:22.000 --> 00:49:24.000 a video you haven't made yourself 00:49:24.000 --> 00:49:27.000 but you want to do a [check] study on one hour to do. 00:49:27.000 --> 00:49:30.000 That's very long for a student 00:49:30.000 --> 00:49:35.000 and then, you ask them not to do the whole subtitling which 00:49:35.000 --> 00:49:40.000 takes a lot of time, but use the tool to think 00:49:41.000 --> 00:49:41.000 notes that sync with the video 00:49:41.000 --> 00:49:44.000 and that would be on it. 00:49:44.000 --> 00:49:46.000 I'm not trying to [CHECK] 00:49:46.000 --> 00:49:50.000 What I mean is that a subtitling tool just allows you to show 00:49:50.000 --> 00:49:56.000 text on a video at a given time and produces 00:49:56.000 --> 00:50:02.000 a file where these indications are present 00:50:02.000 --> 00:50:06.000 so you can use it for [check] 00:50:06.000 --> 00:50:09.000 provided that you can access the file downloaded 00:50:09.000 --> 00:50:15.000 and do things for it. 00:50:15.000 --> 00:50:17.000 [Vance][check] One of the interesting things about Instreamia 00:50:17.000 --> 00:50:26.000 is you can do things. 00:50:26.000 --> 00:50:28.000 If you want I can show you just briefly 00:50:28.000 --> 00:50:35.000 because I just happen to have on a screenshare 00:50:35.000 --> 00:50:38.000 [check] plays something really quickly and 00:50:38.000 --> 00:50:41.000 you can just sort see what it does. 00:50:41.000 --> 00:50:44.000 Let's see! Here we go. 00:50:44.000 --> 00:50:47.000 What have I got here? Yep! [check] 00:50:47.000 --> 00:50:49.000 So I'll grab one of these items here 00:50:49.000 --> 00:50:51.000 Oh, my window's just changed 00:50:51.000 --> 00:50:54.000 I wouldn't do that 00:50:54.000 --> 00:50:57.000 Oh, no! It did! It has cut my email [check] 00:50:57.000 --> 00:50:59.000 Ok here we go on Instreamia. Let's begin 00:50:59.000 --> 00:51:00.000 ok [check], Don't open anything 00:51:00.000 --> 00:51:04.000 Ok, that's the url 00:51:04.000 --> 00:51:09.000 I'm looking for the one with 'Space oddity': that's a nice one 00:51:10.000 --> 00:51:17.000 This is the Canadian astronaut who [check] the space 00:51:17.000 --> 00:51:21.000 and took the 'Space oddity' so I'll pick up this live listening exercise 00:51:21.000 --> 00:51:24.000 and I don't know if you will hear anything 00:51:24.000 --> 00:51:28.000 but it doesn't really matter: you know the song 00:51:28.000 --> 00:51:31.000 "Ground control to major Tom" 00:51:31.000 --> 00:51:36.000 so what you can see here is it starts playing 00:51:36.000 --> 00:51:38.000 I don't know if you can hear anything 00:51:38.000 --> 00:51:42.000 no, I [check] on mute somehow 00:51:42.000 --> 00:51:45.000 anyway ok 00:51:45.000 --> 00:51:47.000 anyway you can see the 00:51:47.000 --> 00:51:49.000 you just see the 00:51:49.000 --> 00:51:52.000 unfortunately's the intro there 00:51:52.000 --> 00:51:54.000 but when it says "Ground control to major Tom" 00:51:54.000 --> 00:51:57.000 then you start see gaps appear 00:51:57.000 --> 00:51:59.000 so now it says 00:51:59.000 --> 00:52:01.000 "Ground control to major Tom" 00:52:01.000 --> 00:52:03.000 and then repeat that 00:52:03.000 --> 00:52:05.000 and it jumps down to the next one 00:52:05.000 --> 00:52:10.000 Now, when it goes to the next one 00:52:10.000 --> 00:52:12.000 there's a gap 00:52:14.000 --> 00:52:20.000 ok so now you get a [check] but it stops 00:52:20.000 --> 00:52:22.000 so if, to get the song to keep playing 00:52:22.000 --> 00:52:26.000 you have to choose on 00:52:26.000 --> 00:52:29.000 and then it resumes and you get the next one 00:52:29.000 --> 00:52:31.000 So, ok, I would stop that 00:52:31.000 --> 00:52:34.000 it actually [check] here because ...ok 00:52:34.000 --> 00:52:38.000 [Nina] That's kind of complicated 00:52:39.000 --> 00:52:43.000 [Vance]You know, the interesting here is that 00:52:43.000 --> 00:52:45.000 complicated is what it does 00:52:45.000 --> 00:52:47.000 but it's not complicated what you do. 00:52:47.000 --> 00:52:52.000 What you do is just put the 00:52:52.000 --> 00:52:55.000 just [voices overlap] video and then, yeah, 00:52:55.000 --> 00:52:57.000 no, you don't have to do that: it does it! 00:52:57.000 --> 00:53:04.000 The software does it. So that actually would be something that... if Amara [check] open source 00:53:04.000 --> 00:53:08.000 I wouldn't be surprised they've used some Amara 00:53:08.000 --> 00:53:10.000 tools and their work. 00:53:10.000 --> 00:53:12.000 Is it all open source? 00:53:12.000 --> 00:53:14.000 [Claude] Yes, it is. 00:53:14.000 --> 00:53:15.000 [Vance] Yes, ok. But... 00:53:15.000 --> 00:53:20.000 [Claude] Yes, it is. But the thing of making the video go forward when you add something 00:53:20.000 --> 00:53:26.000 in it, Coursera [check] also have that in their videos, except that - you know - 00:53:26.000 --> 00:53:28.000 the video will go 00:53:28.000 --> 00:53:30.000 will go ahead to the point point 00:53:30.000 --> 00:53:33.000 We'll see a little yellow sign 00:53:33.000 --> 00:53:35.000 [?] Yes 00:53:35.000 --> 00:53:37.000 [Claude] ...on the subtitles and that's why you 00:53:37.000 --> 00:53:39.000 have questions and [check] 00:53:39.000 --> 00:53:42.000 in the middle of the video 00:53:42.000 --> 00:53:44.000 [?] Right! I was wondering how they do that! It's good! 00:53:44.000 --> 00:53:49.000 [Claude] In the same way as Instreamia, I think! 00:53:49.000 --> 00:53:52.000 [?] Makes the video interactive 00:53:52.000 --> 00:53:56.000 [Claude] and personally ... Sorry, I'm not breaking rules 00:53:56.000 --> 00:54:01.000 I think that there's a time for everything. 00:54:01.000 --> 00:54:08.000 First, I mean, you have a lecture. I didn't [check] 00:54:08.000 --> 00:54:10.000 for digital signal processing, which is really 00:54:10.000 --> 00:54:14.000 cheecky because I just sort of script through my 00:54:14.000 --> 00:54:17.000 [check] school exams in Maths and they requested 00:54:17.000 --> 00:54:22.000 high calculus [inaudible] 00:54:22.000 --> 00:54:27.000 but, so, I [inaudible] 00:54:27.000 --> 00:54:31.000 But, if I had 00:54:31.000 --> 00:54:37.000 if I had to stop answering questions when I was listening to that sort of 00:54:37.000 --> 00:54:43.000 very recognizable logic of the people who are [check] 00:54:43.000 --> 00:54:46.000 about what you did to digital 00:54:46.000 --> 00:54:47.000 [check] 00:54:47.000 --> 00:54:49.000 in such a way, I have been [check] so maybe... 00:54:49.000 --> 00:54:52.000 I think, I think it's better to have the video 00:54:52.000 --> 00:54:54.000 you understand the video 00:54:54.000 --> 00:54:55.000 you work on the video 00:54:55.000 --> 00:54:57.000 you do [check] on the video 00:54:57.000 --> 00:55:00.000 you can take notes on it 00:55:00.000 --> 00:55:02.000 and then you have the text. 00:55:02.000 --> 00:55:04.000 It's already done [check] 00:55:05.000 --> 00:55:07.000 correctness of subtitles in the video, 00:55:07.000 --> 00:55:08.000 also take notes on video. 00:55:08.000 --> 00:55:12.000 You don't have to add a text in the middle of that! 00:55:12.000 --> 00:55:19.000 I don't know...[check]perhaps I'm no digital [check], I'm afraid. 00:55:19.000 --> 00:55:23.000 [Vance] Yeah, there are so many ways to do it, but it's really interesting to find 00:55:23.000 --> 00:55:27.000 that all of these companies automated something that - you know - 00:55:27.000 --> 00:55:30.000 you can choose from the tools and 00:55:30.000 --> 00:55:32.000 what you're talking about to 00:55:32.000 --> 00:55:34.000 whatever you're talking about [check] to put text in the middle 00:55:34.000 --> 00:55:36.000 I'm not having a text in the middle or - you know - 00:55:36.000 --> 00:55:40.000 if you can find a script that will make that easier for you to deliver 00:55:40.000 --> 00:55:42.000 you know, that's nice but it's a bit [check] you know - that 00:55:42.000 --> 00:55:46.000 you know - that can be very useful. 00:55:46.000 --> 00:55:47.000 [Claude] Yeah, but I mean... 00:55:47.000 --> 00:55:53.000 I come from Andreas CMOOC where it's really learned centred 00:55:54.000 --> 00:56:00.000 So, if you [inaudible] already a restriction of 00:56:00.000 --> 00:56:06.000 what learners can do with a video [inaudible] and it's better to have the students 00:56:06.000 --> 00:56:14.000 [inaudible] 00:56:15.000 --> 00:56:17.000 I stop that. 00:56:17.000 --> 00:56:20.000 Scripting things. 00:56:20.000 --> 00:56:27.000 Scripting things, scripting all the descriptions, scripting [check], scripting misheard subtitles. 00:56:27.000 --> 00:56:30.000 That can be very funny to do. 00:56:30.000 --> 00:56:34.000 You can suggest those activities and then the students will 00:56:34.000 --> 00:56:36.000 find their own way on explore tools. 00:56:36.000 --> 00:56:41.000 The potential of syncing a text with a video 00:56:41.000 --> 00:56:43.000 I think that if you have 00:56:43.000 --> 00:56:45.000 I mean, if they can skip the text, that's fine 00:56:45.000 --> 00:56:49.000 [check]they can ignore it, but the [check] 00:56:49.000 --> 00:56:53.000 they should be able to enter the editing 00:56:53.000 --> 00:57:01.000 to download the syncs and do all sort of [check] things with the [check] 00:57:01.000 --> 00:57:07.000 [Ana Cristina] I just want to thank you both because I think 00:57:07.000 --> 00:57:15.000 Amara is great for the students' education if you are teaching online 00:57:15.000 --> 00:57:21.000 where personally I think I would like - and I will hopefully use Instreamia in the 00:57:21.000 --> 00:57:28.000 classroom. I think it's great to have the students to create their own 00:57:28.000 --> 00:57:30.000 gap fills for a song. 00:57:30.000 --> 00:57:36.000 I don't know in my context whether I could get them to use Amara 00:57:36.000 --> 00:57:41.000 but definitely for online course with more adult learners 00:57:41.000 --> 00:57:47.000 because that's.... let's say - I think - very student centred. 00:57:48.000 --> 00:57:56.000 [Vance] And this is... put me in mind of the - you know - a lot of work that's gone in video 00:57:56.000 --> 00:57:58.000 you [check] to do is video 00:57:58.000 --> 00:58:03.000 but [check] of it 00:58:03.000 --> 00:58:06.000 I'll just put a link in the etherpad text chat 00:58:06.000 --> 00:58:10.000 to an article about [check] and then 00:58:11.000 --> 00:58:14.000 what they were doing was recreating tools 00:58:16.000 --> 00:58:20.000 where you could play videos and news broadcast 00:58:20.000 --> 00:58:24.000 in German let's say and you could turn these 00:58:24.000 --> 00:58:28.000 the subtitles, because they had closed captions 00:58:30.000 --> 00:58:32.000 at that time you can turn those on or off if you... 00:58:33.000 --> 00:58:36.000 you can play the video with or without the subtitles 00:58:36.000 --> 00:58:37.000 or see the subtitles or see the translation. 00:58:37.000 --> 00:58:39.000 So you have different choices 00:58:39.000 --> 00:58:42.000 And sometimes I even see this in my class 00:58:42.000 --> 00:58:44.000 when my students watch videos. 00:58:44.000 --> 00:58:45.000 sometimes, though, choose videos with [check] subtitles 00:58:45.000 --> 00:58:47.000 and sometimes they turn these off 00:58:47.000 --> 00:58:50.000 and sometimes they have subtitles in English 00:58:50.000 --> 00:58:51.000 with those [check] something in English and it has 00:58:51.000 --> 00:58:52.000 a subtitle 00:58:52.000 --> 00:58:56.000 Sometimes they listen, watch a [check]film in Japanese 00:58:56.000 --> 00:58:59.000 that doesn't have the subtitle, you know, so 00:58:59.000 --> 00:59:02.000 [Nina] That's quite [voices overlap] 00:59:02.000 --> 00:59:05.000 [Vance] They're choosing - you know -how the modality 00:59:05.000 --> 00:59:08.000 that they want to experience this video 00:59:08.000 --> 00:59:11.000 and giving the choice to the students is - 00:59:11.000 --> 00:59:14.000 as you said - it's student centred - you know 00:59:14.000 --> 00:59:16.000 this is ...[check] from the tools 00:59:16.000 --> 00:59:18.000 that will give students different choices 00:59:18.000 --> 00:59:22.000 for getting at the language in the video can have...that's ... 00:59:22.000 --> 00:59:24.000 and actually let them learn for themselves 00:59:24.000 --> 00:59:26.000 some of the language that's there 00:59:26.000 --> 00:59:28.000 that's really valuable 00:59:28.000 --> 00:59:30.000 and captioning is the real key of this - you know - 00:59:30.000 --> 00:59:34.000 which is why Amara is so important 00:59:34.000 --> 00:59:36.000 and why this [check] is so important. 00:59:36.000 --> 00:59:39.000 [Claude] Now, a few things I would like to mention still 00:59:39.000 --> 00:59:44.000 On Youtube now it's possible also to have 00:59:44.000 --> 00:59:48.000 a twitter stream appearing as a closed caption 00:59:48.000 --> 00:59:52.000 I haven't yet really studied them, 00:59:52.000 --> 00:59:54.000 but this is really fashinating 00:59:54.000 --> 00:59:58.000 You have a Youtube stream video 00:59:58.000 --> 01:00:00.000 [check] are presumably producing now 01:00:00.000 --> 01:00:04.000 and you see appearing as 01:00:04.000 --> 01:00:09.000 a live, a stream tool [check] about the video 01:00:09.000 --> 01:00:11.000 and that I really find fashinating 01:00:11.000 --> 01:00:14.000 and I want to come back to the... 01:00:14.000 --> 01:00:17.000 to the learning [check] caption text 01:00:17.000 --> 01:00:20.000 some of which is not closed caption text 01:00:20.000 --> 01:00:22.000 It does produce text 01:00:22.000 --> 01:00:24.000 but it is not a text that is available 01:00:24.000 --> 01:00:26.000 to everyone but which is also 01:00:26.000 --> 01:00:29.000 fashinating. It's same language captioning 01:00:29.000 --> 01:00:32.000 and the idea started in India 01:00:32.000 --> 01:00:34.000 Professors decided that as everybody 01:00:34.000 --> 01:00:37.000 loved Bollywood songs 01:00:37.000 --> 01:00:42.000 if TV started showing them with karaoke type captions, 01:00:42.000 --> 01:00:47.000 people would learn to read without a notice [check] 01:00:47.000 --> 01:00:49.000 not learning but keep their reading ability 01:00:51.000 --> 01:00:52.000 That's working very well 01:00:52.000 --> 01:00:56.000 Then there's a [check] professor who teaches English 01:00:56.000 --> 01:00:59.000 to students with reading difficulties 01:00:59.000 --> 01:01:04.000 And he makes them make the karaoke subtitles 01:01:04.000 --> 01:01:08.000 and they've done that on Shakespeare 01:01:08.000 --> 01:01:10.000 they've done that on songs 01:01:10.000 --> 01:01:12.000 they've done that on the Bible and anything. 01:01:12.000 --> 01:01:14.000 They did the recording from the internet 01:01:14.000 --> 01:01:16.000 archive because you have a lot of books 01:01:16.000 --> 01:01:19.000 that are read aloud and have a text as well 01:01:19.000 --> 01:01:21.000 and then, I don't know 01:01:21.000 --> 01:01:23.000 how they do it because I tried it 01:01:23.000 --> 01:01:26.000 I go bunkers because it means such a concentration 01:01:26.000 --> 01:01:31.000 but...you sort of tap the space bar everytime you 01:01:31.000 --> 01:01:36.000 want the new word to appear in the karaoke caption 01:01:36.000 --> 01:01:40.000 and really the students who have reading problems 01:01:40.000 --> 01:01:44.000 they made the most beautiful videos 01:01:44.000 --> 01:01:46.000 They also use a bouncing ball 01:01:46.000 --> 01:01:50.000 and that's crazy because you have 01:01:50.000 --> 01:01:53.000 to tap each syllable so that the ball bounces on them 01:01:53.000 --> 01:01:56.000 and I think that's really something worth 01:01:56.000 --> 01:02:01.000 exploring, same language subtitling 01:02:02.000 --> 01:02:07.000 [Vance] Yeah, and also get in your students to do it 01:02:08.000 --> 01:02:09.000 [Claude] Yeah, exactly 01:02:09.000 --> 01:02:11.000 [Vance] I think it's so important also to work with 01:02:11.000 --> 01:02:14.000 short items if you can... I get them - you know - 01:02:14.000 --> 01:02:16.000 you shouldn't get long movies 01:02:16.000 --> 01:02:19.000 they're really difficult 01:02:19.000 --> 01:02:20.000 you know... 01:02:20.000 --> 01:02:22.000 [Nina] one minute videos 01:02:22.000 --> 01:02:23.000 [Vance] Yeah, those... 01:02:23.000 --> 01:02:26.000 [voices overlap] 01:02:28.000 --> 01:02:29.000 [Claude] because when you start within a tool 01:02:29.000 --> 01:02:32.000 even a tool like Amara which is extremely simple 01:02:32.000 --> 01:02:39.000 I mean, Andreas and I started on some [check] video in dot.sub 01:02:40.000 --> 01:02:42.000 and I remember we had moments when just 01:02:42.000 --> 01:02:48.000 we sort of just exited because just simply finger [coverance? check] 01:02:48.000 --> 01:02:52.000 and getting the syncing done is done a little bit differently on Dot.sub 01:02:52.000 --> 01:02:57.000 yeah, very [check]; a manually student [check] 01:02:57.000 --> 01:02:59.000 the manual dexterity 01:02:59.000 --> 01:03:01.000 So it's good to start with very short things 01:03:01.000 --> 01:03:05.000 because I remember my first [check] captioning 01:03:05.000 --> 01:03:09.000 it could have taken me sort of 10 minutes to get 01:03:09.000 --> 01:03:13.000 20 seconds of video subtitle. 01:03:13.000 --> 01:03:18.000 And so, yes, don't tell them to do [check] 01:03:18.000 --> 01:03:24.000 although it's much easier on Amara than on other platrforms 01:03:24.000 --> 01:03:27.000 because you can do that collaboratively. 01:03:27.000 --> 01:03:30.000 As we deal it with Lucia: 01:03:30.000 --> 01:03:33.000 she transcribed and I synced 01:03:33.000 --> 01:03:36.000 and she... we did that as we went along. 01:03:36.000 --> 01:03:39.000 [Vance] What we have done was the video we've 01:03:39.000 --> 01:03:42.000 just spoken on for the itis13 01:03:42.000 --> 01:03:44.000 [Claude] Yes, that's the one 01:03:44.000 --> 01:03:47.000 [Vance] [inaudible] Yeah 01:03:48.000 --> 01:03:51.000 [Claude] But also we did them into someone's else 01:03:51.000 --> 01:03:56.000 something on a documentary about Pompei 01:03:56.000 --> 01:03:58.000 He...a lot of titling was 01:03:58.000 --> 01:04:02.000 from an Indonesian ad 01:04:02.000 --> 01:04:07.000 He was interested also for theological reasons: he is a muslim 01:04:07.000 --> 01:04:10.000 but he was interested in Pompei 01:04:10.000 --> 01:04:13.000 as an example of god punishing men... 01:04:13.000 --> 01:04:15.000 people, though, humanity 01:04:15.000 --> 01:04:17.000 Anyway, we started. 01:04:17.000 --> 01:04:19.000 I have been to Pompei, he hadn't 01:04:19.000 --> 01:04:25.000 so I was [check] actor who did doctor Spock 01:04:25.000 --> 01:04:27.000 in Star Trek - they [check] 01:04:27.000 --> 01:04:28.000 Anyway I would 01:04:28.000 --> 01:04:30.000 I would transcribe 01:04:30.000 --> 01:04:32.000 At the end I would put the 01:04:32.000 --> 01:04:34.000 [check] 01:04:34.000 --> 01:04:36.000 I said: 'Look! You don't have to do that 01:04:36.000 --> 01:04:39.000 because we don't have to do it as Amara says. 01:04:39.000 --> 01:04:41.000 You don't have to do all the transcripts 01:04:41.000 --> 01:04:42.000 and then captions 01:04:42.000 --> 01:04:45.000 and then syncronize. 01:04:45.000 --> 01:04:46.000 You can transcribe and then 01:04:46.000 --> 01:04:48.000 you start syncronize 01:04:48.000 --> 01:04:50.000 and then you go on transcribing: it works, too!' 01:04:50.000 --> 01:04:53.000 And that's sort of [check] that's important 01:04:53.000 --> 01:04:57.000 because it isn't as far as [check] discouraging 01:04:57.000 --> 01:04:59.000 you can already see some subtitles 01:04:59.000 --> 01:05:01.000 appear before you [check] 01:05:01.000 --> 01:05:04.000 And that's a sort of thing that people 01:05:04.000 --> 01:05:06.000 find on their own - I mean - 01:05:06.000 --> 01:05:08.000 When we did the activity for 01:05:08.000 --> 01:05:10.000 with lt13 01:05:10.000 --> 01:05:17.000 there were two big bugs I think on Amara 01:05:17.000 --> 01:05:20.000 while a lot of people were starting to 01:05:20.000 --> 01:05:22.000 subtitle 01:05:22.000 --> 01:05:24.000 They were totally unfaced 01:05:24.000 --> 01:05:28.000 I have never known people who [check] 01:05:28.000 --> 01:05:32.000 sort of losing it when the bug starts. 01:05:32.000 --> 01:05:33.000 They just went along 01:05:33.000 --> 01:05:37.000 They found alternative ways to go on working 01:05:37.000 --> 01:05:42.000 and it is [check] to do that a few 01:05:42.000 --> 01:05:44.000 have [check] 01:05:44.000 --> 01:05:47.000 Right too much serious about how it works. 01:05:47.000 --> 01:05:50.000 I think what we helped them 01:05:50.000 --> 01:05:53.000 sort of sails through this big bug...was that 01:05:53.000 --> 01:05:55.000 Oh well, oh! 01:05:55.000 --> 01:05:58.000 That isn't looking as it shouldn't look! 01:05:58.000 --> 01:06:00.000 So what can I do? 01:06:00.000 --> 01:06:02.000 And they found [check] 01:06:02.000 --> 01:06:06.000 Because Amara is still extremely simple 01:06:06.000 --> 01:06:07.000 in its concepts 01:06:07.000 --> 01:06:11.000 That's what makes me slightly... 01:06:11.000 --> 01:06:14.000 I must try Instreamia 01:06:14.000 --> 01:06:19.000 but I sort was [check] to 01:06:19.000 --> 01:06:22.000 doing too many things at a time 01:06:22.000 --> 01:06:26.000 [Vance] [voices overlap] and try to learn a language 01:06:26.000 --> 01:06:29.000 because I just find it really compelling 01:06:29.000 --> 01:06:31.000 what sucked me into it 01:06:31.000 --> 01:06:33.000 was doing it in Spanish 01:06:33.000 --> 01:06:36.000 and playing the videos and my 01:06:36.000 --> 01:06:41.000 you know - my [check] whatever [check] 01:06:41.000 --> 01:06:42.000 and theories 01:06:42.000 --> 01:06:44.000 was just drawing me into it 01:06:44.000 --> 01:06:46.000 and those guys saying in their interviews and in their 01:06:46.000 --> 01:06:49.000 lectures that there really challenge [check] material 01:06:49.000 --> 01:06:54.000 as though they run mooc like courses 01:06:54.000 --> 01:06:55.000 for language learners 01:06:55.000 --> 01:06:58.000 and they're always forgetting feed-back 01:06:58.000 --> 01:07:00.000 from either the English teachers or 01:07:00.000 --> 01:07:02.000 working with or their language learners 01:07:02.000 --> 01:07:04.000 and they're just finding that 01:07:04.000 --> 01:07:07.000 they're very challenged to keep content coming 01:07:07.000 --> 01:07:10.000 because students [check] of that sort 01:07:10.000 --> 01:07:12.000 So, I don't know, it is...just try 01:07:12.000 --> 01:07:14.000 If it appeals, you know, 01:07:14.000 --> 01:07:15.000 the idea I think it would be 01:07:15.000 --> 01:07:18.000 to get so many tools [check] 01:07:18.000 --> 01:07:20.000 [check] them like they are translation tools 01:07:20.000 --> 01:07:22.000 [check] awful 01:07:22.000 --> 01:07:24.000 [check] translating from Spanish to English 01:07:24.000 --> 01:07:26.000 but to just understand what's going on 01:07:26.000 --> 01:07:28.000 there are tools 01:07:28.000 --> 01:07:30.000 that you can be challenged on 01:07:30.000 --> 01:07:32.000 So there are so many options 01:07:32.000 --> 01:07:35.000 because once you've got one video 01:07:35.000 --> 01:07:37.000 synced with its transcripts 01:07:37.000 --> 01:07:40.000 then all their tools work on it 01:07:40.000 --> 01:07:44.000 So - you know - whatever they do 01:07:44.000 --> 01:07:45.000 you don't have to use them 01:07:45.000 --> 01:07:47.000 you can if you want 01:07:47.000 --> 01:07:49.000 [Claude] I wanted just to say something 01:07:49.000 --> 01:07:50.000 about translating. 01:07:50.000 --> 01:07:53.000 Unfortunately, Amara has a feature 01:07:53.000 --> 01:07:56.000 that says "Translate with Bing" 01:07:56.000 --> 01:08:00.000 and it's probably the worst thing 01:08:00.000 --> 01:08:02.000 you can do if you are 01:08:02.000 --> 01:08:05.000 translating together with other people. 01:08:05.000 --> 01:08:08.000 It's really idiotic 01:08:08.000 --> 01:08:14.000 I mean - if a video has subtitles on Youtube 01:08:14.000 --> 01:08:17.000 you can get, as a viewer, 01:08:17.000 --> 01:08:20.000 you can get the automatic translation 01:08:20.000 --> 01:08:23.000 of the existing subtitles, ok? 01:08:23.000 --> 01:08:26.000 you just click on the CC thing 01:08:26.000 --> 01:08:28.000 you have a list of languages 01:08:28.000 --> 01:08:30.000 and you have Translate Beta 01:08:30.000 --> 01:08:33.000 and you get your Google translation 01:08:33.000 --> 01:08:35.000 of [check] subtitles 01:08:35.000 --> 01:08:36.000 but you have asked for them as a viewer 01:08:36.000 --> 01:08:40.000 as a publisher, as a whatever 01:08:40.000 --> 01:08:43.000 you can't force that sort of thing onto 01:08:43.000 --> 01:08:47.000 people as it were a translation 01:08:47.000 --> 01:08:50.000 and what I have tried long to 01:08:50.000 --> 01:08:52.000 convince Amara to withdraw this feature but 01:08:52.000 --> 01:08:54.000 they find some people who want this 01:08:54.000 --> 01:08:56.000 so, ok, we have it 01:08:56.000 --> 01:08:59.000 but don't choose it, please. 01:08:59.000 --> 01:09:02.000 [Vance] I'm going to have to step out 01:09:02.000 --> 01:09:05.000 I've got some cases I should do to prepare 01:09:05.000 --> 01:09:07.000 for my vacation 01:09:07.000 --> 01:09:08.000 [check] 01:09:08.000 --> 01:09:09.000 Monday 01:09:09.000 --> 01:09:11.000 [Nina] Where are you going, Vance? 01:09:11.000 --> 01:09:13.000 [Vance] I'm going to [check] valley with my wife and son on Sunday 01:09:13.000 --> 01:09:16.000 and then we're going to Commodo very quickly 01:09:16.000 --> 01:09:18.000 [check] 01:09:18.000 --> 01:09:19.000 [Nina] Is that of dragons? 01:09:19.000 --> 01:09:21.000 [Vance] Yeah 01:09:21.000 --> 01:09:22.000 [Nina] Very cool! 01:09:22.000 --> 01:09:23.000 [Vance] It isn't diving 01:09:23.000 --> 01:09:25.000 [Nina] Have a great time! 01:09:25.000 --> 01:09:32.000 [check] voices overlap 01:09:32.000 --> 01:09:34.000 [Vance] I've got a lot of space in my suitcase 01:09:34.000 --> 01:09:38.000 But anyway, it was very nice of everyone of you to come 01:09:38.000 --> 01:09:40.000 and populate this event 01:09:42.000 --> 01:09:47.000 Cristina, Andreas, Benjamin is here 01:09:47.000 --> 01:09:50.000 and Claude of course 01:09:50.000 --> 01:09:51.000 and Diana 01:09:51.000 --> 01:09:54.000 and [check] came from Ukraine and she has been 01:09:54.000 --> 01:09:56.000 here all the time 01:09:56.000 --> 01:10:00.000 [check] is the wall that we see there 01:10:00.000 --> 01:10:01.000 but he did try to come 01:10:01.000 --> 01:10:03.000 and Nina 01:10:03.000 --> 01:10:04.000 and myself. 01:10:04.000 --> 01:10:06.000 That's nine of us so there was room in the chat 01:10:06.000 --> 01:10:09.000 Lucia had to leave because of connectively 01:10:09.000 --> 01:10:11.000 problems to hang up 01:10:11.000 --> 01:10:13.000 but she's still there 01:10:13.000 --> 01:10:15.000 and I even think I see a J.L. who might 01:10:15.000 --> 01:10:20.000 even see us in the stream from the etherpad chat window 01:10:20.000 --> 01:10:23.000 I've got to teach people how to put 01:10:23.000 --> 01:10:25.000 your name there 01:10:25.000 --> 01:10:26.000 anyway there are some screenshots 01:10:26.000 --> 01:10:28.000 if you are interested you can 01:10:28.000 --> 01:10:31.000 open a sort of screencast and see how to use that 01:10:31.000 --> 01:10:33.000 etherpad tool 01:10:33.000 --> 01:10:35.000 But we won't do that now 01:10:35.000 --> 01:10:39.000 But anyway, this is a Learning Together event 01:10:39.000 --> 01:10:41.000 from the 14th of July 2013 01:10:41.000 --> 01:10:45.000 we've been talking with Claude and Lucia 01:10:45.000 --> 01:10:49.000 who have been doing this work on 01:10:49.000 --> 01:10:51.000 Amara.org and showing us 01:10:51.000 --> 01:10:53.000 [check] open source tool 01:10:53.000 --> 01:10:57.000 and we've been talking about the possibilities for it 01:10:57.000 --> 01:10:59.000 and next week Benjamin is going to 01:10:59.000 --> 01:11:01.000 bring his community 01:11:01.000 --> 01:11:06.000 Teachers, most [check] interested in 01:11:06.000 --> 01:11:09.000 what's TILL tell us about it 01:11:10.000 --> 01:11:15.000 [Benjamin]Hi, it's an acronym which stands for Teachers for Interactive Language Learning 01:11:15.000 --> 01:11:17.000 and it's just a community that I set up 01:11:17.000 --> 01:11:20.000 and next week we'll be talking about 01:11:20.000 --> 01:11:21.000 gamification, virtual classrooms, 01:11:21.000 --> 01:11:24.000 basically games and language learning 01:11:24.000 --> 01:11:27.000 so [check] is interested in partecipating 01:11:27.000 --> 01:11:31.000 who [check] and shares experiences and ideas on the matter 01:11:31.000 --> 01:11:33.000 and I have included link in the chat 01:11:33.000 --> 01:11:36.000 where you can check out 01:11:36.000 --> 01:11:38.000 the event that I created 01:11:38.000 --> 01:11:40.000 and so ....Yeah 01:11:40.000 --> 01:11:41.000 I'd love to have you 01:11:41.000 --> 01:11:43.000 anyone who is interested and 01:11:43.000 --> 01:11:44.000 partecipate in the discussion 01:11:44.000 --> 01:11:46.000 [Nina] Same time, Benjamin? 01:11:46.000 --> 01:11:49.000 Will it be same time as today? 01:11:49.000 --> 01:11:54.000 [voices overlap] same time, yes 01:11:54.000 --> 01:11:56.000 [Vance] Ok. And also, as I know [check] event 01:11:56.000 --> 01:11:58.000 from where [check] wifi 01:11:58.000 --> 01:12:01.000 should be an easy matter for me just to 01:12:01.000 --> 01:12:04.000 just transcript them to the learning 2gether pbworks.com page 01:12:04.000 --> 01:12:07.000 So that will keep track of what's going on 01:12:07.000 --> 01:12:10.000 and there are a couple of Sundays and Mondays 01:12:10.000 --> 01:12:11.000 that are still open if someone of you would like to 01:12:11.000 --> 01:12:14.000 have a session, you can start a discussion 01:12:15.000 --> 01:12:16.000 Benjamin, is probably happy to do it 01:12:16.000 --> 01:12:18.000 [check] 01:12:18.000 --> 01:12:22.000 [check] A Goggle doc 01:12:22.000 --> 01:12:25.000 which I've got linked somewhere 01:12:25.000 --> 01:12:26.000 from all our spaces. 01:12:26.000 --> 01:12:29.000 Anyway, you can try it 01:12:29.000 --> 01:12:32.000 if you look hard 01:12:32.000 --> 01:12:33.000 [Nina] ok 01:12:33.000 --> 01:12:37.000 [Vance] But there's a document where you can write the 01:12:37.000 --> 01:12:39.000 anybody can go to and write any suggestions 01:12:39.000 --> 01:12:40.000 for events or topics you would like to discuss. 01:12:40.000 --> 01:12:42.000 But anyway, that's a way of keeping 01:12:42.000 --> 01:12:43.000 this [check] going over the summer and 01:12:43.000 --> 01:12:45.000 I'm certainly glad that Benjamin 01:12:45.000 --> 01:12:47.000 stepped in and offer to do something there. 01:12:47.000 --> 01:12:50.000 So if anybody else wants to grab 01:12:50.000 --> 01:12:53.000 the ball might get [check] off backwards 01:12:53.000 --> 01:12:56.000 pass after next week, so... 01:12:56.000 --> 01:12:58.000 [check] what he can 01:12:58.000 --> 01:13:01.000 [check] and everybody was listening 01:13:01.000 --> 01:13:02.000 to the audio from this 01:13:02.000 --> 01:13:05.000 in the podcast because I make an mp3 recording 01:13:05.000 --> 01:13:08.000 from the Youtube video and 01:13:08.000 --> 01:13:11.000 I post that on Learning 2gether.net.archive 01:13:11.000 --> 01:13:13.000 which will store this 01:13:13.000 --> 01:13:16.000 And that's how Learning 2gether works 01:13:16.000 --> 01:13:19.000 [Claude] Thank you all 01:13:19.000 --> 01:13:20.000 [Vance] Ok, thanks very much 01:13:20.000 --> 01:13:22.000 [Nina] Thanks, Claude 01:13:22.000 --> 01:13:24.000 [Cristina] Thank you very much 01:13:24.000 --> 01:13:32.000 [Claude] And I must explore Instreamia beyond prejudices. Thank you very much 01:13:33.000 --> 01:13:35.000 [Nina] Ciao! 01:13:35.000 --> 01:13:38.000 [Vance] Yeah! Have a look! Ok! Bye bye!