WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:02.620 ♪ (music) ♪ 00:00:02.620 --> 00:00:05.660 Live from the University of Texas at Austin 00:00:05.660 --> 00:00:07.660 The Liberal Arts Development Studio, 00:00:07.660 --> 00:00:09.700 and the College of Liberal Arts, present: 00:00:09.700 --> 00:00:13.370 Introduction to Human Dimensions of Organizations. 00:00:13.370 --> 00:00:17.980 And now, here is your professor, Doctor Art Markman. 00:00:19.110 --> 00:00:23.324 Hey, everybody, it is Monday, it's our first Monday together, 00:00:23.324 --> 00:00:26.581 and we have folks in the studio again, say "hello," everybody. 00:00:26.581 --> 00:00:28.121 Students off camera: Hello! 00:00:28.121 --> 00:00:30.811 Alright, hope you could hear that at home. 00:00:30.811 --> 00:00:33.371 Yeah, so I'm excited to be here, 00:00:33.371 --> 00:00:39.041 and hope that the Longhorn loss on Saturday didn't drag the weekend 00:00:39.041 --> 00:00:41.311 down for too many people. 00:00:41.311 --> 00:00:46.251 But, what we're going to do today is we're gonna shift disciplines a little bit. 00:00:46.251 --> 00:00:49.050 So, if you think about where we were last class, 00:00:49.050 --> 00:00:52.350 we were talking about sociology and anthropology, 00:00:52.350 --> 00:00:57.530 we were talking about the kinds of relationships that people engage in, 00:00:57.530 --> 00:01:01.597 we talked a little bit about the content there, the four types of relationships, 00:01:01.597 --> 00:01:05.892 we talked about methodology, how in the world would you study this, 00:01:05.892 --> 00:01:07.529 and then we talked about practice, 00:01:07.529 --> 00:01:10.459 that is, what is the influence of these kinds of relationships 00:01:10.459 --> 00:01:12.999 on the way that people negotiate with each other. 00:01:12.999 --> 00:01:16.699 So we went through that in the field of a social science, 00:01:16.699 --> 00:01:18.089 and now we're gonna shift and 00:01:18.089 --> 00:01:19.689 we're going to move to one of the humanities. 00:01:19.689 --> 00:01:22.019 In particular, we're going to talk about history. 00:01:22.019 --> 00:01:25.459 And, in fact, history is going to make up several of the next lectures. 00:01:25.459 --> 00:01:28.149 So today, we're going to talk about some ancient history, 00:01:28.149 --> 00:01:30.399 going back to ancient Greece. 00:01:30.399 --> 00:01:33.259 Then next class, we're going to shift to something more modern, 00:01:33.259 --> 00:01:37.769 go to the 1970's, where we're going to talk a little bit about Nixon, 00:01:37.769 --> 00:01:41.059 and his ability to open up a relationship with China, 00:01:41.059 --> 00:01:45.059 and then, the following week, actually on the following Wednesday, 00:01:45.059 --> 00:01:49.479 we're going to have a special guest in class. An actual, live historian, 00:01:49.479 --> 00:01:51.690 who's going to talk a little bit about what it means 00:01:51.690 --> 00:01:54.370 to do research in history. 00:01:54.370 --> 00:01:58.070 And so, the focus today and on Wednesday is going to be 00:01:58.070 --> 00:02:03.520 on the content and practice associated with these episodes from history. 00:02:03.537 --> 00:02:07.927 And then, we'll have one special class where we'll talk about methodology 00:02:07.928 --> 00:02:08.798 in history. 00:02:08.798 --> 00:02:11.958 So that's kind of where things are going to be going. 00:02:11.958 --> 00:02:15.848 We're going to focus today a little bit on the concept of power, 00:02:15.848 --> 00:02:18.208 and how that relates to negotiation. 00:02:18.208 --> 00:02:20.748 And we're going to start by thinking about the concept of power 00:02:20.748 --> 00:02:25.408 by actually looking at a negotiation back from Ancient Greece. 00:02:25.408 --> 00:02:29.837 So we're going to talk about what happens when you can dictate the terms, 00:02:29.837 --> 00:02:34.905 because you are negotiating from a position of extreme strength and power. 00:02:34.905 --> 00:02:37.248 We'll focus on the Melian Dialogue, 00:02:37.248 --> 00:02:41.248 which was written as part of the history of the Peloponnesian War 00:02:41.248 --> 00:02:44.348 by, it was written by Thucydides. 00:02:44.348 --> 00:02:46.408 And then we'll actually ask the question: 00:02:46.408 --> 00:02:49.328 So, should the powerful folks always win? 00:02:49.328 --> 00:02:51.358 Should they always get what they want? 00:02:51.358 --> 00:02:53.038 And what does that mean? 00:02:53.038 --> 00:02:56.128 And that'll actually touch on some of the ethical issues associated 00:02:56.128 --> 00:02:58.138 with using your power. 00:02:58.138 --> 00:03:00.668 And along the way, I'm going to have to show you a map. 00:03:00.668 --> 00:03:03.048 So, there's a cool map utility we've got here, 00:03:03.048 --> 00:03:05.788 so you're going to get to see me fumble with technology 00:03:05.788 --> 00:03:08.538 in yet a new way this class. 00:03:08.538 --> 00:03:11.588 So, to get started, I want you all to think for a moment -- in fact, 00:03:11.588 --> 00:03:14.348 I'm going to give you ten or fifteen seconds to write this down 00:03:14.348 --> 00:03:15.328 for yourself -- 00:03:15.328 --> 00:03:18.548 I want you to ask yourself: What is power? 00:03:18.548 --> 00:03:22.358 So take a moment, and just write this down. 00:03:22.358 --> 00:03:26.798 If you hear about the concept of power, what exactly does that mean? 00:03:26.798 --> 00:03:31.759 (pause) 00:03:31.759 --> 00:03:33.622 This, by the way, is not your quiz, 00:03:33.622 --> 00:03:37.702 that'll come later, this is just something to write down. 00:03:37.702 --> 00:03:41.212 And after you've thought a little bit about the concept of power, 00:03:41.212 --> 00:03:44.172 I want you to also think a little bit about negotation. 00:03:44.172 --> 00:03:47.132 So remember, we talked about this idea of negotiation being: 00:03:47.132 --> 00:03:51.962 we've got conflicting goals, we've got two parties or sometimes more parties, 00:03:51.962 --> 00:03:55.652 but let's just think about two different parties working together, 00:03:55.652 --> 00:03:58.592 they have conflicting goals, they are negotiating in order 00:03:58.592 --> 00:04:04.152 to try to figure out who's going to get what they want in the course 00:04:04.152 --> 00:04:06.457 of achieving those goals. 00:04:06.457 --> 00:04:10.567 So now I want you to think for a second, having written down your 00:04:10.567 --> 00:04:12.411 definition of power, 00:04:12.411 --> 00:04:16.651 I want you to write down: what does power allow you to do when you're negotiating? 00:04:16.651 --> 00:04:22.331 (pause) 00:04:22.331 --> 00:04:24.288 Take a couple of seconds to do that. 00:04:24.288 --> 00:04:38.618 (pause) 00:04:38.618 --> 00:04:42.490 You can even chat with each other about this on the chat facility, if you want. 00:04:42.490 --> 00:04:46.673 But the reason I want you to do this is because whenever we're teaching 00:04:46.673 --> 00:04:50.973 anything, one of the things that we're trying to do is to have you 00:04:50.977 --> 00:04:54.149 actually make your own bets on things, 00:04:54.149 --> 00:04:58.101 that is, to really think about: "Well, what do I know already?" 00:04:58.101 --> 00:05:01.827 The issue isn't to be right or to wrong. 00:05:01.827 --> 00:05:05.084 It's that we want to influence the way that you're thinking about things 00:05:05.084 --> 00:05:08.459 and so the best way to do that is, for us to pull that up from your memory 00:05:08.459 --> 00:05:12.528 so that it's a concept that active and ready for you to play with. 00:05:12.528 --> 00:05:15.824 And then we can manipulate that concept a little bit. 00:05:15.824 --> 00:05:17.414 So when I ask these kinds of questions, 00:05:17.414 --> 00:05:21.454 it's really just to get you thinking about these kinds of concepts. 00:05:21.454 --> 00:05:24.528 So, if we think about the notion of what is power, 00:05:24.528 --> 00:05:30.540 let's actually dive into this by asking: "Well, what can you do with power?" 00:05:30.540 --> 00:05:35.455 So, power could be physical strength, but it need not be physical strength, 00:05:35.455 --> 00:05:41.708 power can also be, can also involve, having control over resources, 00:05:41.708 --> 00:05:47.665 because a lot of what power is all about is the ability to control an outcome. 00:05:47.665 --> 00:05:51.827 So, if you think about life, anytime you engage in an action, 00:05:52.279 --> 00:05:58.097 there is the influence of the circumstance of what's going on, 00:05:58.097 --> 00:06:01.352 and then there's the influence over what you bring to the table: 00:06:01.352 --> 00:06:06.618 your physical attributes, your mental attributes, your resources. 00:06:06.618 --> 00:06:09.044 And so, think about it like this. 00:06:09.044 --> 00:06:13.410 To the degree that you can control what's going to happen next, 00:06:13.410 --> 00:06:17.262 rather than the circumstances controlling what's going to happen next, 00:06:17.262 --> 00:06:19.087 you have a degree of power. 00:06:19.440 --> 00:06:24.437 And, to the extent that the circumstance is controlling what's going on, 00:06:24.437 --> 00:06:27.123 then the circumstance has the power, 00:06:27.123 --> 00:06:28.377 and you really don't. 00:06:28.862 --> 00:06:33.769 And so, the circumstance could be the physical situation, right, 00:06:33.769 --> 00:06:40.219 if you're caught in a tidal wave, then it's a physical circumstance 00:06:40.219 --> 00:06:42.017 that has overpowered you. 00:06:42.363 --> 00:06:44.905 But, you might also be in a social environment, 00:06:44.905 --> 00:06:49.164 in which someone else has physical strength, or resources, or something else. 00:06:49.164 --> 00:06:51.225 And that gives them the power. 00:06:51.225 --> 00:06:54.879 So, to the extent that the situation is governing what's going on, 00:06:54.879 --> 00:06:57.041 you are relatively powerless. 00:06:57.041 --> 00:06:59.931 And, to the extent that you can actually influence what's going to happen, 00:06:59.931 --> 00:07:01.880 you have some degree of power. 00:07:01.880 --> 00:07:07.087 And, the factors that create that power depend on the nature of the circumstance. 00:07:08.154 --> 00:07:12.928 If you're playing defensive line for the Longhorns, 00:07:13.076 --> 00:07:16.635 then it is physical strength that guides power, 00:07:16.635 --> 00:07:19.875 and a little bit of mental understanding of what's going on in the game. 00:07:20.584 --> 00:07:24.012 If you are negotiating with someone over a business deal, 00:07:24.012 --> 00:07:26.488 then your physical strength may not matter so much, 00:07:26.488 --> 00:07:29.131 but your economic strength might matter. 00:07:29.426 --> 00:07:33.122 And, of course, as you read in the Melian Dialogue, 00:07:33.122 --> 00:07:37.081 we had Athens who was a military power, 00:07:37.081 --> 00:07:39.997 so they had a tremendous amount of military strength that they were 00:07:39.997 --> 00:07:44.208 bringing to bear, that enabled them to influence outcomes. 00:07:45.002 --> 00:07:48.172 And so, when you have a degree of power, 00:07:48.172 --> 00:07:51.492 one of the things that that enables you to do in a negotiation 00:07:51.492 --> 00:07:54.852 is to begin to control that outcome. 00:07:54.852 --> 00:08:01.411 Now, in some negotiations, one side has most or all of the power, 00:08:01.411 --> 00:08:04.541 in which case, they have an opportunity to really dictate 00:08:04.541 --> 00:08:06.606 everything that's going to go on. 00:08:06.606 --> 00:08:11.376 In many negotiations, of course, each party has some source of power, 00:08:11.376 --> 00:08:14.414 that they will bring to bear on the negotiation. 00:08:14.770 --> 00:08:18.610 So, for example, if you think about labor negotiations for a second. 00:08:18.610 --> 00:08:23.102 You have the employer, who has a certain amount of power, 00:08:23.102 --> 00:08:26.241 because they get to decide how much they'd like to pay people, 00:08:26.241 --> 00:08:30.297 what resources they're going to bring to that employment situation. 00:08:30.297 --> 00:08:34.307 But if you have a labor negotiation, let's say with a union, 00:08:34.307 --> 00:08:36.739 or some kind of collective bargaining, 00:08:36.739 --> 00:08:40.841 then the employees also have some potential power, 00:08:40.841 --> 00:08:45.238 because they might choose not to come to work, or to slow things down at work. 00:08:45.238 --> 00:08:48.924 And so, each side is exerting it's power 00:08:48.924 --> 00:08:51.873 in order to try to come to some accommodation, 00:08:51.873 --> 00:08:57.558 because presumably the employer wants to pay as little as possible, 00:08:57.558 --> 00:09:00.629 in order to get the work they want out of people. 00:09:00.629 --> 00:09:03.827 While the employees would like to make as much as they can. 00:09:03.827 --> 00:09:06.455 And, of course, that's a bit of an over-simplification of 00:09:06.455 --> 00:09:08.549 the way that labor negotiations work, 00:09:08.549 --> 00:09:10.444 but you have a conflict of interest, 00:09:10.444 --> 00:09:13.025 and different sides have different amounts of power. 00:09:13.025 --> 00:09:17.695 And, in fact, if you think about trying to development a certain amount of power 00:09:17.695 --> 00:09:19.392 in a negotiation context 00:09:19.392 --> 00:09:22.325 -- one of the reasons that unions developed in the first place -- 00:09:22.325 --> 00:09:27.630 is because when people negotiated as individuals against a big company 00:09:27.630 --> 00:09:31.097 it's often very difficult for the individual to have any power at all, 00:09:31.097 --> 00:09:33.824 because if that person chooses not to come to work, 00:09:33.824 --> 00:09:37.152 there might be plenty of other people who are willing to come in. 00:09:37.662 --> 00:09:41.640 And it is that collection of individuals that provides more power 00:09:41.640 --> 00:09:44.591 to the folks on the employment side, 00:09:44.591 --> 00:09:49.928 and that gives them a little bit more opportunity to try to control the outcome. 00:09:49.928 --> 00:09:52.627 So again, this concept of power is that: 00:09:52.627 --> 00:09:57.166 whatever the circumstance is, it is the ability to have some amount of 00:09:57.166 --> 00:09:59.435 control over the situation, 00:09:59.435 --> 00:10:03.436 rather than having the situation and the people in it having some degree 00:10:03.436 --> 00:10:05.041 of control over you. 00:10:05.041 --> 00:10:07.033 So that's really where we're going with this. 00:10:08.628 --> 00:10:11.127 And, by the way, as we get into the Melian Dialogue, 00:10:11.140 --> 00:10:14.963 what I want you to be thinking about is -- a lot of times we're going to 00:10:14.963 --> 00:10:18.272 use terms, and I'm going to seemingly belabor the point here, 00:10:18.272 --> 00:10:22.433 where I'm going to, you know, dig into what some of these terms mean -- 00:10:22.471 --> 00:10:26.129 and part of the reason for doing that is because a lot of times 00:10:26.129 --> 00:10:29.929 we throw words around without necessarily really thinking deeply 00:10:29.929 --> 00:10:32.200 about what influence they have. 00:10:32.427 --> 00:10:36.288 The more that you understand where these terms come from, 00:10:36.288 --> 00:10:37.507 and what they mean, 00:10:37.507 --> 00:10:41.074 the better able you're going to be to manipulate those when 00:10:41.074 --> 00:10:43.946 you're in a situation in which you have to influence what's happening. 00:10:44.620 --> 00:10:46.897 Alright lets dive into the Melian Dialogue 00:10:46.897 --> 00:10:51.708 So, the Melian Dialogue involves the island of Melos, 00:10:52.688 --> 00:10:56.435 and the Melian Dialogue happened on the island of Melos between 00:10:56.608 --> 00:10:58.938 Athens and the Melians. 00:10:59.351 --> 00:11:04.688 And this was an invent that was laid out by Thucydides. 00:11:04.688 --> 00:11:07.740 And Thucydides was an ancient Greek historian, 00:11:07.740 --> 00:11:11.975 so he was born about 460 BCE 00:11:11.975 --> 00:11:15.010 -- and remember the years as we get up to the start of the common era 00:11:15.010 --> 00:11:17.778 will count downward until we get to zero, 00:11:17.778 --> 00:11:20.752 and then we'll move up to the common era dates that, 00:11:20.752 --> 00:11:24.735 we're in 2019 now, as I'm taping this -- 00:11:24.735 --> 00:11:28.917 So, he was born about 460, and of course oddly enough 00:11:28.917 --> 00:11:31.249 people didn't really have good birth certificates back then, 00:11:31.249 --> 00:11:34.097 so we just know he was born in that vicinity. 00:11:34.097 --> 00:11:37.684 And he died sometime after 404. 00:11:37.684 --> 00:11:40.240 He was the son of a wealthy Athenian, 00:11:40.240 --> 00:11:43.570 and, of course, if you go back to ancient Greece or ancient Rome, 00:11:43.570 --> 00:11:47.517 a lot of what we know about that era tends to be stuff that comes from 00:11:47.517 --> 00:11:49.786 people who had some degree of wealth. 00:11:49.786 --> 00:11:53.082 Unfortunately, we don't learn a lot about the people who are 00:11:53.082 --> 00:11:55.200 sort of the common folks, 00:11:55.200 --> 00:11:58.430 because they didn't necessarily have access to the ability 00:11:58.430 --> 00:12:00.349 to write a history of things. 00:12:00.349 --> 00:12:05.045 A lot of what we learn about the daily life of the more common folks 00:12:05.045 --> 00:12:08.710 during these eras comes from archaeological digs, 00:12:08.710 --> 00:12:11.787 in which we're able to look at housing and what people ate, 00:12:11.787 --> 00:12:13.092 and things like that. 00:12:13.092 --> 00:12:15.109 There isn't as much of a written record. 00:12:15.109 --> 00:12:20.146 So we tend to get records from wealthy folks and people who 00:12:20.146 --> 00:12:23.459 played significant roles during that period of history. 00:12:23.459 --> 00:12:27.217 So, what we have is Thucydides who wrote a history of 00:12:27.217 --> 00:12:28.715 the Peloponnesian War. 00:12:28.715 --> 00:12:33.193 He was a general during the war, so played a pretty prominent role, 00:12:33.193 --> 00:12:35.279 got that generalship in part because 00:12:35.279 --> 00:12:38.772 he was already part of the wealthy class in Athens. 00:12:38.772 --> 00:12:43.557 And after the war was over, he wrote a history of the war that 00:12:43.557 --> 00:12:47.184 provides a tremendous amount about what we know now about 00:12:47.184 --> 00:12:48.793 the Peloponnesian War. 00:12:49.592 --> 00:12:53.057 And so, what in the world is the Peloponnesian War? 00:12:53.057 --> 00:12:56.147 Well, it is a conflict between two nation-states: 00:12:56.147 --> 00:12:58.137 Athens and Sparta. 00:12:58.137 --> 00:13:01.887 And they differed in a variety of ways, and in particular, 00:13:01.887 --> 00:13:06.745 they differed sort of politically and in their overall orientation 00:13:06.745 --> 00:13:09.106 towards thinking about life. 00:13:09.492 --> 00:13:13.768 So Sparta was a monarchy, so they had a king. 00:13:13.768 --> 00:13:15.968 They were fairly conservative, 00:13:15.968 --> 00:13:19.194 meaning that they were resistant to cultural change. 00:13:19.194 --> 00:13:23.219 They really wanted to keep things relatively the same as they had been 00:13:23.219 --> 00:13:24.679 for many years. 00:13:24.679 --> 00:13:32.807 And so, they represented one pole of society in the area around Greece. 00:13:32.807 --> 00:13:34.636 And then there was Athens. 00:13:34.636 --> 00:13:36.767 And Athens was a second nation-state. 00:13:36.767 --> 00:13:42.539 This was a democracy, so there was actually more power given to the people. 00:13:44.179 --> 00:13:47.450 And, Athens was a much more innovative society. 00:13:47.450 --> 00:13:50.920 They really were interested in innovation in a variety of ways: 00:13:50.920 --> 00:13:58.040 innovation politically, innovation in terms of invention and technology, 00:13:58.040 --> 00:14:02.680 and so it was a much more open and free-flowing society. 00:14:02.696 --> 00:14:09.014 And, you know, often we see conflicts that occur between groups that are 00:14:09.014 --> 00:14:12.261 relatively more open, and groups that are relatively more traditional 00:14:12.261 --> 00:14:15.726 because that creates a significant conflict of interest. 00:14:15.726 --> 00:14:19.881 And, at some point, when a conflict of interest breaks down, 00:14:20.224 --> 00:14:22.262 and so you try to negotiate, 00:14:22.262 --> 00:14:26.336 whenever you have, you know, a conflict between nation-states, 00:14:26.336 --> 00:14:30.109 one of the things that happens is you often start by trying to negotiate, 00:14:30.109 --> 00:14:32.126 and when negotiations break down, 00:14:32.126 --> 00:14:36.220 you need some other mode of resolving a conflict. 00:14:36.220 --> 00:14:40.333 And, of course, in the second-third and the middle-third of this class, 00:14:40.333 --> 00:14:45.115 we're going to talk a lot about different modes of conflict resolution. 00:14:45.115 --> 00:14:48.533 But one of them we're probably not going to spend a ton of time on, 00:14:48.533 --> 00:14:50.269 is open warfare. 00:14:50.269 --> 00:14:52.623 And that's something that happens between nations 00:14:52.623 --> 00:14:54.681 where you can't resolve the conflict, 00:14:54.681 --> 00:14:55.904 so what do you end up doing? 00:14:55.904 --> 00:14:59.560 You end up going to war and bringing your military strength to bear on this. 00:15:00.169 --> 00:15:06.469 So the conflict between Sparta and Athens boils over and turns into a war, 00:15:06.469 --> 00:15:10.732 the Peloponnesian War began in 431 BCE, 00:15:10.732 --> 00:15:15.583 and the first phase of the war lasts for ten years. 00:15:15.583 --> 00:15:18.021 And I want you to think for a moment about this. 00:15:18.021 --> 00:15:21.316 You know, when you think about wars in the modern era, 00:15:21.316 --> 00:15:24.877 many of the wars that we hear about are really not that long, right? 00:15:25.707 --> 00:15:30.513 You know, World War One, the US is involved in this for three years. 00:15:30.902 --> 00:15:35.676 World War Two, the United States is involved, you know, for five years. 00:15:35.676 --> 00:15:39.754 And these are relatively short, and these feel like long wars to us, 00:15:39.754 --> 00:15:43.171 and yet they really were much shorter than something 00:15:43.171 --> 00:15:45.128 like the Peloponnesian war, 00:15:45.128 --> 00:15:48.384 in part, of course, because you don't have airplanes 00:15:48.384 --> 00:15:50.355 that can get around the world in a day. 00:15:50.355 --> 00:15:52.370 And so, when someone's going to go to war, 00:15:52.370 --> 00:15:54.471 they're going to have to sail to get there. 00:15:54.471 --> 00:15:58.842 And, so, I'll show you a map in a few moments of the area, 00:15:58.842 --> 00:16:01.134 but in order to get from one place to another, 00:16:01.134 --> 00:16:02.401 you're hopping on a boat. 00:16:02.401 --> 00:16:04.749 So everything takes a fair amount of time, 00:16:04.749 --> 00:16:08.255 and there's a lot of seige warfare, 00:16:08.255 --> 00:16:11.739 where you surround a place for a while, try to starve people out. 00:16:11.739 --> 00:16:14.675 So, warfare takes place over a long period of time. 00:16:14.675 --> 00:16:17.146 The Peloponnesian War no exception to that. 00:16:17.146 --> 00:16:20.709 So, the first phase of the war about ten years long. 00:16:20.709 --> 00:16:24.427 And it's really Athens is the one who's leading here, 00:16:24.427 --> 00:16:28.508 they're the ones who are having the primary success. 00:16:28.508 --> 00:16:32.872 And then, then there was 'half-time', there was a seven-year truce 00:16:32.872 --> 00:16:35.832 where they tried to work things out via negotiation, 00:16:36.582 --> 00:16:41.681 and so, and towards the end of that seven-year truce is when 00:16:41.665 --> 00:16:44.765 we're going to pick up the story with the conquest of Melos, 00:16:44.765 --> 00:16:47.295 which happened in 416 BCE. 00:16:48.126 --> 00:16:52.182 And you'll notice that this is really towards the end of 'half-time', 00:16:52.353 --> 00:16:58.252 and then the war becomes a kind of hot war again, 00:16:58.252 --> 00:17:04.605 an open war, starting in let's see, it's 414. 00:17:04.605 --> 00:17:07.091 And it lasts another ten years, 00:17:07.091 --> 00:17:10.129 and the second phase of the war favors Sparta. 00:17:10.129 --> 00:17:11.983 And this is going to become important, 00:17:11.983 --> 00:17:13.990 so what I want you to remember here is: 00:17:13.990 --> 00:17:18.581 first half of the war, Athens is largely the one who's the victor, 00:17:18.581 --> 00:17:20.130 then there's the truce, 00:17:20.130 --> 00:17:23.238 then in the second phase we're going to see that Sparta ends up 00:17:23.238 --> 00:17:27.286 having a better time of it in the second half of the war. 00:17:27.286 --> 00:17:28.599 So, hold onto that, 00:17:28.599 --> 00:17:30.854 because that's going to become important as we understand 00:17:30.854 --> 00:17:34.005 the implications of the Melian Dialogue. 00:17:35.135 --> 00:17:37.353 Alright, so before we go to the map here, 00:17:37.353 --> 00:17:40.861 I just want to tell you a little bit about the siege of Melos. 00:17:40.861 --> 00:17:43.501 So, the Siege of Melos, 416 BCE, 00:17:43.501 --> 00:17:46.089 it's the tail-end of this half-time period, 00:17:46.089 --> 00:17:48.375 what was called the Peace of Nicias. 00:17:48.375 --> 00:17:50.419 Athens wants Melos. 00:17:50.419 --> 00:17:54.550 So, so just because Athens and Sparta aren't directly in conflict 00:17:54.550 --> 00:17:58.290 doesn't mean that they're not strategically trying to do things. 00:17:58.290 --> 00:18:01.776 So, you know, as we look at the map -- 00:18:01.776 --> 00:18:05.823 actually, why don't we go to the map here, can we do this? Let's see -- 00:18:05.823 --> 00:18:09.433 Hopefully this'll work. If we go to our map -- there we go! 00:18:09.433 --> 00:18:15.863 We got Athens up here, so, this blue area here is the Mediterranean Sea. 00:18:15.863 --> 00:18:18.415 So, if you think of your world map for a second, 00:18:18.415 --> 00:18:22.975 the Mediterranean, you've got southern Europe and northern Africa, 00:18:22.975 --> 00:18:25.937 you've got a fairly large body of water, 00:18:25.937 --> 00:18:29.218 hopefully you've had a chance to look at that, maybe even visited 00:18:29.218 --> 00:18:30.469 some of these places. 00:18:30.469 --> 00:18:36.120 If we look at the map here, Athens is in the southern part of Greece, 00:18:36.120 --> 00:18:37.851 which is just a little bit east of where 00:18:37.851 --> 00:18:41.605 -- so Greece, of course, a little bit east of where Italy is today, 00:18:41.605 --> 00:18:43.075 where modern Italy is -- 00:18:43.075 --> 00:18:45.851 Greece was one of the real world centers at this point. 00:18:45.851 --> 00:18:51.113 We've got Athens, and then Melos is actually way down here. 00:18:51.113 --> 00:18:55.349 So, if you've actually been to Athens or been to this area of the world, 00:18:55.349 --> 00:18:58.687 you know there's a lot of islands around there and, 00:19:00.887 --> 00:19:04.134 these days, kind of a a great place to spend a vacation, but 00:19:04.320 --> 00:19:09.964 basically and Sparta, which is not really on the map, is sort of up here, 00:19:09.964 --> 00:19:13.248 a little bit east of Athens. 00:19:13.248 --> 00:19:17.915 And so basically, Athens wants to control the seas. 00:19:17.915 --> 00:19:20.468 And the way that Athens is going to control the seas, 00:19:22.108 --> 00:19:25.845 is by having outposts on the variety of islands 00:19:25.845 --> 00:19:29.649 that are associated with this area. 00:19:30.133 --> 00:19:34.056 And so, they want to really conquer the area, or at least, 00:19:34.056 --> 00:19:35.218 have control over it. 00:19:35.218 --> 00:19:36.540 So, I'm drawing here. 00:19:36.540 --> 00:19:42.233 So they're going to go down to Melos and really try to see what they can do. 00:19:42.233 --> 00:19:46.343 So what they did was, they packed up a force of about three-thousand soldiers, 00:19:46.343 --> 00:19:50.864 a pretty significant number of people, particularly when you realize 00:19:50.864 --> 00:19:53.344 that you're going to have to bring them on boats from 00:19:53.344 --> 00:19:55.414 Athens all the way down to Melos. 00:19:55.414 --> 00:19:59.121 And their aim was to bring a show of force. 00:19:59.121 --> 00:20:01.726 So they were showing their military power. 00:20:01.726 --> 00:20:04.273 You know, Melos is a small place, you can see it's kind of a 00:20:04.273 --> 00:20:07.461 tiny island, not going to have three-thousand soldiers. 00:20:07.461 --> 00:20:12.484 And so, Athens is bringing a superior military force, 00:20:12.484 --> 00:20:15.847 and the aim is to negotiate with the Melians, 00:20:15.847 --> 00:20:18.899 and that's where we pick up the Melian Dialogue. 00:20:18.899 --> 00:20:22.361 So that's kind of setting the stage for where we are. 00:20:22.971 --> 00:20:24.842 Alright, so what's going to happen? 00:20:24.842 --> 00:20:26.894 Okay, the Melian Dialogue. 00:20:26.894 --> 00:20:31.620 The Athenians come, and they want to present a case 00:20:31.620 --> 00:20:37.239 to the entire population of Melos, that's their strategy. 00:20:37.239 --> 00:20:40.448 And the idea here is several-fold. 00:20:40.448 --> 00:20:43.950 The first, of course, is that, as I mentioned, Athens is a democracy. 00:20:43.950 --> 00:20:47.459 And so, beacuse they're a democracy, 00:20:47.459 --> 00:20:50.136 because they believe that people have the opportunity 00:20:50.136 --> 00:20:51.643 to control their destiny, 00:20:51.643 --> 00:20:54.749 they want to actually give a presentation to all the people 00:20:54.749 --> 00:20:56.991 in the hope that the people will vote. 00:20:57.282 --> 00:20:59.870 Now, of course, there's two reasons for them to want to do this. 00:20:59.870 --> 00:21:02.469 One: Is that it's philosophically 00:21:02.469 --> 00:21:04.648 related to what it is that they're trying to accomplish. 00:21:04.648 --> 00:21:09.932 But also, honestly, if you're an individual, and you see 00:21:09.932 --> 00:21:13.469 a whole bunch of boats out to sea that you know are filled 00:21:13.469 --> 00:21:17.499 with soldiers, and you're an individual. 00:21:17.499 --> 00:21:20.592 Are you really, as you look at this, thinking to yourself: 00:21:20.592 --> 00:21:24.034 "Yeah, our best strategy is going to be to stand up to you." 00:21:24.034 --> 00:21:27.511 As individuals, you're going to feel quite a bit of fear, I think, 00:21:27.511 --> 00:21:28.815 in that moment. 00:21:28.815 --> 00:21:32.092 And so, I think that one of the other reasons that the Athenians 00:21:32.092 --> 00:21:34.433 wanted to present the case to everyone, 00:21:34.433 --> 00:21:38.680 was basically to try and scare the general population, 00:21:38.680 --> 00:21:42.846 with the hope that these individuals would decide that 00:21:42.846 --> 00:21:45.900 they wanted to just give in to whatever the Athenians wanted. 00:21:46.649 --> 00:21:49.867 Now, the Melians, they had a different idea. 00:21:49.867 --> 00:21:54.457 What they wanted was this negotiation to be done by a small number of leaders. 00:21:54.457 --> 00:21:56.605 So they wanted the leadership of Melos 00:21:56.605 --> 00:21:59.978 to sit down with the leadership of the Athenian delegation, 00:21:59.978 --> 00:22:02.306 and for them to hash it out. 00:22:02.632 --> 00:22:04.584 And there are again two reasons for this. 00:22:04.584 --> 00:22:08.286 One: Because from a leadership standpoint, 00:22:08.286 --> 00:22:12.768 Melos is an independent group. They are an independent island. 00:22:12.768 --> 00:22:16.872 They are not aligned either with Athens or Sparta, 00:22:16.872 --> 00:22:20.193 and their government structure involved a fairly small number 00:22:20.193 --> 00:22:21.693 of people who governed. 00:22:21.693 --> 00:22:24.503 And so, they wanted their government structure, 00:22:24.503 --> 00:22:28.906 the people who had the political power in Melos, 00:22:28.906 --> 00:22:32.759 to be the ones who actually engaged in that negotiation. 00:22:32.759 --> 00:22:35.889 And they wanted to do that with the people from Athens 00:22:35.889 --> 00:22:39.068 who were authorized to make a decision. 00:22:39.616 --> 00:22:42.216 And part of that, of course, is just that they wanted a negotiation 00:22:42.216 --> 00:22:45.268 that fit with the way that they governed their own island. 00:22:45.268 --> 00:22:50.104 But the other thing is, the Melians were aware of the fact 00:22:50.104 --> 00:22:53.622 that the common person on the island of Melos 00:22:53.622 --> 00:22:59.598 looking out over the sea, and seeing this superior military force, 00:22:59.598 --> 00:23:03.366 they were aware of the influence that that was going to have on everyone. 00:23:03.366 --> 00:23:07.813 And so, they wanted to really have a smaller number of people 00:23:07.813 --> 00:23:14.541 involved in this negotiation who would be willing to create a force 00:23:14.541 --> 00:23:17.113 that might stand up to the Athenians. 00:23:17.651 --> 00:23:21.701 So, you know, if there's some possibility that you're going to 00:23:21.701 --> 00:23:25.763 end up in a heated battle with a superior force, 00:23:25.763 --> 00:23:28.394 it's going to be very hard to get people to want to do that 00:23:28.394 --> 00:23:33.490 if everyone is involved in that decision, 00:23:33.490 --> 00:23:34.949 because many of the people who 00:23:34.949 --> 00:23:36.775 are going to make that decision 00:23:36.775 --> 00:23:39.453 are not really going to be the ones who have to go to war. 00:23:39.453 --> 00:23:42.842 And many of the ones who see themselves as having to go to war 00:23:42.842 --> 00:23:44.685 against this superior force 00:23:44.685 --> 00:23:49.462 are the ones who might actually not want to vote for that. 00:23:49.462 --> 00:23:52.782 And so, you know, there's a reason why the Melians might actually want 00:23:52.782 --> 00:23:56.460 to bring just their leadership to that situation. 00:23:56.976 --> 00:24:00.455 So, ultimately the Melians get what they want on this. 00:24:00.455 --> 00:24:03.485 They actually have the opportunity for a small number of Melians 00:24:03.485 --> 00:24:09.022 to negotiate with the Athenian leadership. 00:24:10.237 --> 00:24:13.400 Now, when they get into this negotiation, 00:24:13.400 --> 00:24:14.694 and, if you've read this, 00:24:14.694 --> 00:24:19.092 you're getting an overview of that way that this negotiation went, 00:24:19.092 --> 00:24:24.449 what you mind is that Athens is primarily focused on their power. 00:24:24.449 --> 00:24:28.583 After all, they've amassed three-thousand soldiers on boats 00:24:28.583 --> 00:24:32.367 to come and sit off the coast of Melos. 00:24:32.367 --> 00:24:35.464 And so they, on purpose, have brought 00:24:35.464 --> 00:24:39.222 a display of force that should be overwhelming to the Melians, 00:24:39.222 --> 00:24:43.594 and their view is that should open and close the negotiation. 00:24:43.594 --> 00:24:46.273 And so, they come in and basically say: 00:24:46.273 --> 00:24:51.382 "Look, we want to take you over. So come, let us take over 00:24:51.382 --> 00:24:54.766 the island of Melos, install our own government here, and 00:24:54.766 --> 00:24:58.962 you can be now part of the nation-state of Athens." 00:24:58.962 --> 00:25:02.299 And they really aren't particularly interested in negotiating 00:25:02.299 --> 00:25:05.974 in any other way, because they know that when push comes to shove, 00:25:05.974 --> 00:25:08.418 they can come and take over the island, 00:25:08.418 --> 00:25:11.449 if they want to, militarily, and impose their own government. 00:25:11.449 --> 00:25:16.981 And so they'd rather just have the Melians willingly invite them onto the island.