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I spent the past three years
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talking to some of the worst
people on the internet.
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Now, if you've been online recently,
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you may have noticed that there's
a lot of toxic garbage out there:
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racist memes, misogynist propaganda,
viral misinformation.
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So I wanted to know
who was making this stuff.
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I wanted to understand
how they were spreading it.
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Ultimately, I wanted to know
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what kind of impact
it might be having on our society.
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So in 2016, I started tracing
some of these memes back to their source,
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back to the people who were making them
or who were making them go viral.
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I'd approach those people and say,
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"Hey, I'm a journalist.
Can I come watch you do what you do?"
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Now, often the response would be,
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"Why in hell would I want to talk to
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some low-t soy-boy
Brooklyn globalist Jew cuck
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who's in cahoots with the Democrat Party?"
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(Laughter)
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To which my response would be,
"Look, man, that's only 57 percent true."
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(Laughter)
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But often I got the opposite response.
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"Yeah, sure, come on by."
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So that's how I ended up
in the living room
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of a social media propagandist
in Southern California.
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He was a married white guy
in his late 30s.
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He had a table in front of him
with a mug of coffee,
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a laptop for tweeting,
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a phone for texting
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and an iPad for livestreaming
to Periscope and YouTube.
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That was it.
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And yet, with those tools,
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he was able to propel his fringe,
noxious talking points
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into the heart of
the American conversation.
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For example, one of the days I was there,
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a bomb had just exploded in New York,
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and the guy accused of planting the bomb
had a Muslim-sounding name.
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Now, to the propagandist in California,
this seemed like an opportunity,
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because one of the things he wanted
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was for the US to cut off
almost all immigration,
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especially from Muslim-majority countries.
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So he started livestreaming,
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getting his followers
worked up into a frenzy
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about how the open borders agenda
was going to kill us all
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and asking them to tweet about this,
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and use specific hashtags,
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trying to get those hashtags trending.
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And tweet they did --
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hundreds and hundreds of tweets,
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a lot of them featuring
images like this one.
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So that's George Soros.
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He's a Hungarian billionaire
and philanthropist,
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and in the minds
of some conspiracists online,
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George Soros is like
a globalist bogeyman,
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one of a few elites who is secretly
manipulating all of global affairs.
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Now, just to pause here:
if this idea sounds familiar to you,
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that there are a few elites
who control the world
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and a lot of them happen to be rich Jews,
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that's because it is one of the most
anti-Semitic tropes in existence.
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I should also mention that the guy
in New York who planted that bomb,
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he was an American citizen.
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So whatever else was going on there,
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immigration was not the main issue.
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And the propagandist in California,
he understood all this.
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He was a well-read guy.
He was actually a lawyer.
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He knew the underlying facts,
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but he also knew that facts
do not drive conversation online.
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What drives conversation online
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is emotion.
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See, the original premise of social media
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was that it was going
to bring us all together,
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make the world more open
and tolerant and fair ...
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And it did some of that.
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But the social media algorithms
have never been built
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to distinguish between
what's true or false,
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what's good or bad for society,
what's prosocial and what's antisocial.
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That's just not what those algorithms do.
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A lot of what they do
is measure engagement:
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clicks, comments, shares,
retweets, that kind of thing.
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And if you want your content
to get engagement,
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it has to spark emotion,
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specifically, what behavioral scientists
call "high-arousal emotion."
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Now, "high arousal" doesn't only
mean sexual arousal,
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although it's the internet,
obviously that works.
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It means anything, positive or negative,
that gets people's hearts pumping.
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So I would sit with these propagandists,
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not just the guy in California,
but dozens of them,
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and I would watch as they did this
again and again successfully,
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not because they were Russian hackers,
not because they were tech prodigies,
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not because they had
unique political insights --
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just because they understood
how social media worked,
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and they were willing
to exploit it to their advantage.
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Now, at first I was able to tell myself
this was a fringe phenomenon,
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something that was
relegated to the internet.
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But there's really no separation anymore
between the internet and everything else.
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This is an ad that ran
on multiple TV stations
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during the 2018 congressional elections,
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alleging with very little evidence
that one of the candidates
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was in the pocket of
international manipulator George Soros,
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who is awkwardly photoshopped here
next to stacks of cash.
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This is a tweet from
the President of the United States,
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alleging, again with no evidence,
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that American politics is being
manipulated by George Soros.
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This stuff that once seemed so shocking
and marginal and, frankly, just ignorable,
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it's now so normalized
that we hardly even notice it.
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So I spent about
three years in this world.
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I talked to a lot of people.
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Some of them seemed to have
no core beliefs at all.
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They just seemed to be betting,
perfectly rationally,
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that if they wanted
to make some money online
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or get some attention online,
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they should just be
as outrageous as possible.
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But I talked to other people
who were true ideologues.
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And to be clear, their ideology
was not traditional conservatism.
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These were people who wanted
to revoke female suffrage.
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These were people who wanted
to go back to racial segregation.
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Some of them wanted to do away
with democracy altogether.
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Now, obviously these people
were not born believing these things.
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They didn't pick them up
in elementary school.
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A lot of them, before they went
down some internet rabbit hole,
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they had been libertarian
or they had been socialist
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or they had been something else entirely.
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So what was going on?
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Well, I can't generalize about every case,
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but a lot of the people I spoke to,
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they seem to have a combination
of a high IQ and a low EQ.
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They seem to take comfort
in anonymous, online spaces
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rather than connecting in the real world.
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So often they would retreat
to these message boards
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or these subreddits,
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where their worst impulses
would be magnified.
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They might start out saying
something just as a sick joke,
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and then they would get so much
positive reinforcement for that joke,
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so many meaningless
"internet points," as they called it,
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that they might start
believing their own joke.
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I talked a lot with one young woman
who grew up in New Jersey,
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and then after high school,
she moved to a new place
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and suddenly she just felt
alienated and cut off
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and started retreating into her phone.
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She found some of these
spaces on the internet
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where people would post
the most shocking, heinous things.
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And she found this stuff
really off-putting
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but also kind of engrossing,
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kind of like she couldn't
look away from it.
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She started interacting with people
in these online spaces,
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and they made her feel smart,
they made her feel validated.
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She started feeling a sense of community,
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started wondering if maybe
some of these shocking memes
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might actually contain a kernel of truth.
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A few months later, she was in a car
with some of her new internet friends
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headed to Charlottesville, Virginia,
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to march with torches
in the name of the white race.
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She'd gone, in a few months,
from Obama supporter
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to fully radicalized white supremacist.
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Now, in her particular case,
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she actually was able to find her way
out of the cult of white supremacy.
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But a lot of the people
I spoke to were not.
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And just to be clear:
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I was never so convinced
that I had to find common ground
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with every single person I spoke to
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that I was willing to say,
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"You know what, man,
you're a fascist propagandist, I'm not,
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whatever, let's just hug it out,
all our differences will melt away."
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No, absolutely not.
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But I did become convinced that we cannot
just look away from this stuff.
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We have to try to understand it,
because only by understanding it
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can we even start to inoculate
ourselves against it.
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In my three years in this world,
I got a few nasty phone calls,
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even some threats,
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but it wasn't a fraction of what
female journalists get on this beat.
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And yeah, I am Jewish,
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although, weirdly, a lot of the Nazis
couldn't tell I was Jewish,
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which I frankly just found
kind of disappointing.
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(Laughter)
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Seriously, like, your whole job
is being a professional anti-Semite.
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Nothing about me
is tipping you off at all?
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Nothing?
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(Laughter)
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This is not a secret.
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My name is Andrew Marantz,
I write for "The New Yorker,"
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my personality type
is like if a Seinfeld episode
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was taped at the Park Slope Food Coop.
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Nothing?
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(Laughter)
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Anyway, look -- ultimately,
it would be nice
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if there were, like, a simple formula:
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smartphone plus alienated kid
equals 12 percent chance of Nazi.
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It's obviously not that simple.
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And in my writing,
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I'm much more comfortable
being descriptive, not prescriptive.
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But this is TED,
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so let's get practical.
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I want to share a few suggestions
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of things that citizens
of the internet like you and I
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might be able to do to make things
a little bit less toxic.
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So the first one is to be a smart skeptic.
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So, I think there are
two kinds of skepticism.
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And I don't want to drown you in technical
epistemological information here,
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but I call them smart and dumb skepticism.
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So, smart skepticism:
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thinking for yourself,
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questioning every claim,
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demanding evidence --
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great, that's real skepticism.
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Dumb skepticism:
it sounds like skepticism,
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but it's actually closer
to knee-jerk contrarianism.
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Everyone says the earth is round,
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you say it's flat.
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Everyone says racism is bad,
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you say, "I dunno,
I'm skeptical about that."
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I cannot tell you how many young white men
I have spoken to in the last few years
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who have said,
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"You know, the media, my teachers,
they're all trying to indoctrinate me
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into believing in male privilege
and white privilege,
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but I don't know about that,
man, I don't think so."
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Guys -- contrarian
white teens of the world --
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look:
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if you are being a round earth skeptic
and a male privilege skeptic
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and a racism is bad skeptic,
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you're not being a skeptic,
you're being a jerk.
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(Applause)
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It's great to be independent-minded,
we all should be independent-minded,
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but just be smart about it.
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So this next one is about free speech.
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You will hear smart, accomplished people
who will say, "Well, I'm pro-free speech,"
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and they say it in this way
that it's like they're settling a debate,
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when actually, that is the very beginning
of any meaningful conversation.
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All the interesting stuff
happens after that point.
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OK, you're pro-free speech.
What does that mean?
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Does it mean that David Duke
and Richard Spencer
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need to have active Twitter accounts?
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Does it mean that anyone
can harass anyone else online
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for any reason?
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You know, I looked through
the entire list of TED speakers this year.
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I didn't find a single
round earth skeptic.
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Is that a violation of free speech norms?
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Look, we're all pro-free speech,
it's wonderful to be pro-free speech,
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but if that's all you know
how to say again and again,
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you're standing in the way
of a more productive conversation.
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Making decency cool again, so ...
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Great!
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(Applause)
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Yeah. I don't even need to explain it.
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So in my research, I would go
to Reddit or YouTube or Facebook,
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and I would search for "sharia law"
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or I would search for "the Holocaust,"
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and you might be able to guess
what the algorithms showed me, right?
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"Is sharia law sweeping
across the United States?"
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"Did the Holocaust really happen?"
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Dumb skepticism.
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So we've ended up in this
bizarre dynamic online,
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where some people see bigoted propaganda
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as being edgy or being dangerous and cool,
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and people see basic truth
and human decency as pearl-clutching
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or virtue-signaling or just boring.
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And the social media algorithms,
whether intentionally or not,
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they have incentivized this,
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because bigoted propaganda
is great for engagement.
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Everyone clicks on it,
everyone comments on it,
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whether they love it or they hate it.
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So the number one thing
that has to happen here
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is social networks need
to fix their platforms.
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(Applause)
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So if you're listening to my voice
and you work at a social media company
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or you invest in one
or, I don't know, own one,
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this tip is for you.
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If you have been optimizing
for maximum emotional engagement
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and maximum emotional engagement turns out
to be actively harming the world,
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it's time to optimize for something else.
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(Applause)
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But in addition to putting pressure
on them to do that
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and waiting for them
and hoping that they'll do that,
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there's some stuff that
the rest of us can do, too.
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So, we can create some better pathways
or suggest some better pathways
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for angsty teens to go down.
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If you see something that you think
is really creative and thoughtful
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and you want to share that thing,
you can share that thing,
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even if it's not flooding you
with high arousal emotion.
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Now that is a very small step, I realize,
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but in the aggregate,
this stuff does matter,
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because these algorithms,
as powerful as they are,
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they are taking their
behavioral cues from us.
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So let me leave you with this.
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You know, a few years ago
it was really fashionable
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to say that the internet
was a revolutionary tool
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that was going to bring us all together.
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It's now more fashionable to say
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that the internet is a huge,
irredeemable dumpster fire.
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Neither caricature is really true.
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We know the internet
is just too vast and complex
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to be all good or all bad.
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And the danger with
these ways of thinking,
-
whether it's the utopian view
that the internet will inevitably save us
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or the dystopian view that it
will inevitably destroy us,
-
either way, we're letting
ourselves off the hook.
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There is nothing inevitable
about our future.
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The internet is made of people.
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People make decisions
at social media companies.
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People make hashtags trend or not trend.
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People make societies progress or regress.
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When we internalize that fact,
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we can stop waiting
for some inevitable future to arrive
-
and actually get to work now.
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You know, we've all been taught
that the arc of the moral universe is long
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but that it bends toward justice.
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Maybe.
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Maybe it will.
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But that has always been an aspiration.
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It is not a guarantee.
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The arc doesn't bend itself.
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It's not bent inevitably
by some mysterious force.
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The real truth,
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which is scarier and also more liberating,
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is that we bend it.
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Thank you.
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(Applause)