How about listening to music tunes in our proteins? | Mohammed Moudjou | TEDxSaclay

Mohammed is a biologist-biochemist. He always had an artistic look at his work. From the story of a Japanese-American researcher who discovered, hidden behind the DNA gene that codes for a protein, Chopin Opus 55 No.1 Nocturnal, he takes us on an interdisciplinary journey alongside biology and the world of the arts, to the discovery of the musicality associated with one of the major organic components of living things: proteins.

Research engineer at INRA in Jouy-en-Josas since 1998, Mohamed studies within the Protein Macro-Assemblies Prion Diseases (MAP2) team an atypical pathogen of protein nature called "prion" (disease of the mad cow, from Creutzfeldt-Jakob). The team is interested in the structural diversity of prions, their molecular propagation mechanisms and their neurotoxicity. The team recently developed an effective method of amplifying the prion in vitro. This method received the Alfred Kastler Prize in Biology in 2017 from The Animal Law, Ethics and Science Foundation (LFDA) because it allows the reduction of animal testing in the field of prion diseases.

This talk was given at a TEDx event using the TED conference format but independently organized by a local community. Learn more at http://ted.com/tedx

(Piano)

The piece of music we are listening to

is Chopin’s Nocturne, Opus 55, No. 1.

I say that for those
who did not recognize it,

but don't worry, I didn't know either.

We are in a magnificent auditorium,
Massy's Opera theater,

and it is quite natural to listen
to such piece of music in such a place.

But there is still a question
you're asking yourself ... I can feel it.

And this question is

"what is the relationship
between this Chopin's Nocturne

and the image that is currently
projected on the screen

during the broadcast
of this melody?"

This mage represents - of course,
this time, you did recognize it -

a magnificent sculpture of the famous
double helix of the DNA molecule,

DNA being the physical
and molecular support

of our genetic
and hereditary heritage.

So to answer this question and satisfy
somewhat your legitimate curiosity,

I will start by telling you
a little story

but a real story.

Once upon a time,
there was a great scientist,

an American, who was also
Japanese, called Susumo Ohno.

He was a great specialist in the study
of the evolution of living organisms

at the genetic and molecular levels.

He hypothesized in his work
that repetitions -

and I insist on the word "repetition"
because words are important -

the repetitions of genetic
information in DNA sequences

could play a very important role
in the evolution of living organisms.

And in his reflections, he drew
a parallel between the repetitions

and recurrences of genetic
information in the DNA sequence,

and the repetitions of musical themes
that we find in musical scores.

After a lot of cogitations
and reflections,

he developed a method
that allowed him to discover,

hidden behind the sequence
of a real gene

that codes for a real protein
existing in mice but also in humans,

the Chopin nocturne, Op.55, No. 1
that we just listened to.

It is extraordinary

to discover such a musical resonance

hidden behind genetic
and biological information!

In fact, to achieve this,

this researcher constantly navigated
between two universes:

that of Science that he knew well,

and that of Art that he invited
in his own field

to try to explain and understand
the functioning of the living.

So today ladies and gentlemen,

I'd like to take you on a journey
that allows you precisely

to go back and forth
between varied artistic universes

and the world of biology -
it makes sense since I'm a biologist.

So here is for example
how scientists observe,

under the very high magnifications
of an electron microscope,

a simple bacteria.

Ladies and gentlemen, let me introduce
Her Majesty Escherichia coli,

the queen of the commensal
bacteria of our intestines.

By itself, this E. Coli bacteria,
as its close friends say,

represents more than 80%
of the 100,000 billion

not of a thousand portholes
as Captain Haddock would say,

but of the 100,000 billion microorganisms
that colonize our intestines:

the famous microbiota.

Well, this image is indeed
very interesting for scientists,

but for the general public,
it does not mean much.

So we can use paint to represent it.

This was done by a great American
scientist, David Goodsell.

And we can also use sculpture.

This is what was done
by a great British artist, Luke Jerram,

who uses transparent
blown glass sculpture.

These are two representations
on the same theme

to show in a more general
way the organization of this bacteria.

If we now descend to even smaller
microorganisms such as viruses,

here is the influenza virus

and the AIDS virus,

two viruses you have
to protect yourself from,

even if you have to do it
in very different ways,

if you see what I mean.

(Laughter) I will not draw the picture!

Indeed, these images are full
of information for scientists,

but for the general public
it remains abstract.

So on our trip,

we're going to make a stopover
in California at David Goodsel's,

and we're going to ask him

if he would like
to paint these viruses for us.

He's very nice and he did it.

And on the return trip,
we made a stopover in Bristol

at Luke Jerram's place

to ask him to represent
these same microorganisms

with his blown glass sculpture technique.

He was also very nice and did it.

Here is the result: these are
two variations on the same theme

to represent the global organization
of these viruses, how they are made,

the arrangement of their
components in an artistic way.

We can point out
potential therapeutic targets

to fight against these pathogens
which continue to afflict the world.

Now If we go down again
in the scale of living things,

we're going to meet
their organic components,

one of their organic
component that are proteins.

The two other organic components
of living things are of course

sugars and fat, but tonight,

on the eve of the culinary
Christmas festivities,

we are not going to talk
about upsetting issues!

(Laughter)

Here's how scientists
see a protein.

This represents the tertiary structure
or conformation of a protein,

or to put it simply,
the spatial form of a protein.

This is the Green
Fluorescent Protein (GFP)

that lives in an oceanic jellyfish

and emits a magnificent
green light … organic,

that has nothing to do with what
Sébastien was talking about earlier.

Well, this protein is widely
used as a tool in scientific research.

It’s used as a lamp or lantern
for some studies.

There is nothing like a sculpture
to depict an object in space, right?

Since we're still in England,
let's make a stopover in Sheffield

at the house of a Japanese
artist who uses origami.

She was also very nice,
she made a giant origami

of this fluorescent GFP protein.

It explains the overall
organization of this protein,

the different parts organized
in helices or in sheets

and how it works.

When we see this wonder,
we can only ask the question:

how can a cell make a protein?

In other words, how are proteins
made up at the molecular level?

To answer this question,

I'm not going to tell you
a story like before,

rather, I invite you to do
an exercise together

that will use music.

As you all know, to make music,
you need 12 musical notes.

With these 12 notes,
a genius composer may offer

a composition like this -
a very interesting work -

and with the same 12 musical
notes, another composer

may offer something
completely different.

Different elements characterize
or define a musical score.

Today we're going to deal
with two of them.

The first element that
characterizes a musical score

is the order in which
the musical notes appear.

And the second element
is the length of the score,

or in other words the total
number of musical notes.

The top one lasts 4:05
with a few hundred notes.

The bottom one lasts more
than an hour with thousands of notes,

but with always the same
12 elementary notes as fondation.

Now to create proteins,

cells are using exactly
the same building principle

than the one we just saw for music.

To fabricate proteins,

a cell uses 20 elementary units
called "amino acids".

These are small chemical molecules
whose formula are known.

They have a name,

and scientists assign them
a letter of the alphabet

for the sake of simplicity.

Now just like a musical score,
a protein is composed

of the sequence of these amino acids
in a very precise order,

and it contains a total
number of amino acids

that is also very precise
and specific to the 25,000 proteins

that you are all synthesizing
in your human cells.

Once the protein is created,
it organizes itself in space

to adopt a shape, a functional structure.

And it is thanks to this architecture
that the protein can function.

This is what we call
the "structure-function relationship".

There you have it!

Ah, I think some people on the right
want to tell me something!

Go ahead, I'm listening.

"Tell me, Mister Mohammed ..."

"Please call me 'Momo,'
everyone does it,

I don't mind at all, okay?"
(Laughter)

... "if you assign a musical
note to an amino acid,

it becomes possible to translate
its sequence into a musical score."

Yes, that’s exactly
what we’re going to do.

Ah, some people on the left disagree!

“Tell me, Mister Momo" -
you see, it works every time! -

your story, it's all well and good,

but you told us that 12 musical
notes are needed to make music

whereas you need 20 amino
acids to make proteins.

So how do you get
the perfect match

to apply what people
on the right just proposed?

There’s a little flat note
in this story, don't you think?”

I think the people on the left
have paid more attention

to what I just said
than the people on the right.

And please don’t see
any political connotation here.

(Laughter)

Well, we as scientists have
admittedly our heads in the clouds.

Like Professor Tournesol,
we're a bit disorganized,

but when it comes to science,
we like to classify things.

And we do it very rigorously.

So we classified amino acids
into subgroups

because some have very similar
physico-chemical properties.

For example, some
are like fish: they love water;

so they are called "hydrophilic".

In contrast, others are like kitties:
they have a water phobia.

In fact, I like to call them
“pussycat acid”,

"hydrophobic" of course.

Others are a little excited, electric.

They have a negative
or a positive charge, and so on.

By working to sort them out
and classify them,

we easily obtain 12 amino acid groups

to which we assign a musical note,
and that does the trick.

What is interesting in this story
is that each of you here

or who are watching us
in Senegal or Romania,

are free - and we are in the land
of Liberty par excellence -

to assign the music note you want
to this or that group of amino acids.

So each of you is able to create

his or her own musical score
of such and such protein.

Now one day, or maybe it was one night,

(Laughter)

two Americans invited each other:

Marie-Anne Clarke, biologist,
and John Dunn, computer scientist.

I don't know what they did
that night or that day,

but what I do know
is that from this meeting

is born not a baby
but an algorithm

that is inspired by what we just saw.

This algorithm enables us to translate
the amino acid sequence of any protein

into its equivalent in the musical score.

So we can discover ...
the hemoglobin's symphony,

(Laughter)

the Insulin's blues,
the Keratin's rock,

or the Collagen's swing, who knows?

Alright, if my story can be
put in parentheses,

the opening one
being the Chopin's Nocturn,

the closing one is also going to be
a musical piece, that of a protein.

Its name is Spidroine.

Spidroine is the protein that makes up
the threads of a spider's web.

I really like spiders.

And rest assured,
I am not like Cédric Villani.

(Laughter)

Okay? You noticed I have no spider
on the collar of my jacket,

nor bats in the belfry I hope!

Well,

be aware that this protein which
the silk of the spider's web is made of,

represents the most resistant,
the most solid, the most elastic,

and the lightest material in existence.

Imagine a spider making
a single thread of its web

that would circle the Earth.

Well this simple wire would be
40,075 km long and weigh only 420 gr.

Its resistance and solidity
is due to the repetitions

of specific amino acid sequences,

which we will also find
in its musical equivalent.

So I invite you to close your eyes
if you are afraid of spiders,

open your ears wide,

and imagine yourself
on a beautiful clear night

listening to the musical resonance

of the protein of a web
that a spider is weaving

under the moon light.

(Applause)

(Music)

(The music ends)

I hope after this you'll no longer
see spiders the same way.

(Applause)

Thank you.

In conclusion, I hope
what we saw together today

was a good illustration of the possible
transversality between disciplines.

The meeting of one with the other
enables knowledge to be shared

in a way, I hope,
both educational and fun.

It also enables passions to be shared

as well as another way of looking
at our own work and discipline.

And this ties in

with what the great French philosopher,
poet and writer, Paul Valery, has said,

to whom I leave
the last word with his quote:

"There was once someone
who could look at the same object

with the eyes of a painter,
or a naturalist,

with the eyes of a physicist at times
and at other times of a poet,

and none of these looks
was superficial."

None of these looks was superficial.

Thank you very much.

(Applause)