Full interview: Samantha Markle speaks to Staci DaSilva

[Samantha Markle] It's not just me.

It's happening, all around the world,
to people.

And, these people know
that they can get away with it,

if they -- or, they think they can,

if they go hide under a VPN.

'Hey, they won't know my ISP,
if I do this through a VPN.'

So, it makes it harder
for law enforcement to get them.

So, one of the things that
twitter, and facebook,

and Instagram, and others
can do,

to help law enforcement,

and help keep their
participants safe:

biometrics.

If you get on your computer,
to sign in,

you're using face recognition.

Or, your fingerprint.

Or, your -- or your I. D.

Is that a violation
of freedom and privacy?

Hell, no.

Because they're not out --
they're out there violating others'

freedom and privacy,
to the extent of criminal acts.

Criminals are not guaranteed anonymity,
under any law.

If they're going to be out there
breaking laws,

and -- and -- committing crime,

you're --- you're not entitled
to privacy and protection under the law,

of your face, and your I. D., and your --
no, you're --

I think you have an onus,

as a mature, responsible user
of these social interfaces,

to be transparent.

You know, yeah -- I'm not out there
committing criminal acts, and

I'm going to prove it, by
letting everybody know who I am.

You know, by being transparent.

That's just how I feel.

[Staci DaSilva] So when did you start
getting harassed?

[S. Markle] So, I started getting harassed

around the time of the
royal wedding.

And, and -- the moment that
people knew

I disagreed with some things
about my sister,

such as, you know,

not inviting both sides
of the family,

and, um...

the possibility of my book
coming out.

That was another
controversial subject.

I started getting threats,

and people would send
and tweet

photographs of me
being viewed

through a high-powered scope,

behind broken glass,

with my face in targets.

You know, if that's not
obvious symbolism,

I don't know what is.

But, it was all
with the intent to

intimidate,
keep me in fear,

uh, prevent me from
releasing my book.

And you can't do that
to people.

We have freedom of speech.

And, just because

someone might not like
what I have to say,

or that I have
a book coming out,

doesn't mean that they can

engage in criminal activity,

coercion, threats, intimidation,

to prevent my exercising
my freedom of speech.

[S. DaSilva] Was this on
facebook and twitter?

[S. Markle] Mmm-hmm.

And I don't have an
Instagram account.

I started one
several years ago,

and, like I just,

I think I said "Hello?"

I never used it,

but it's got
thousands of followers.

And, it gets daunting.

Like I can't, I can't
go, and get to

every platform, and say,

"Hey, shut this down,
it's not me,"

so, there are so many
fake accounts out there,

that are out there saying
disparaging things,

and parody accounts.

Those are also attempts at
this, you know,

uh, defamation, libel, slander,
bullying. Uh --

[S. DaSilva] How often do you
hear from these trolls?

I mean, on your social media
accounts?

[S. Markle] Um, I shut it down,
so I don't see their mentions.

Because it got to the point

where they were always
mentioning me,

trying to, you know,

flag themselves,
and get attention,

and say horrible things,
and Photoshop and

create things to villainize
or criminalize me.

I just thought, you know,
"That's not real."

And, for people out there

who are bullied in cyberspace,

you know, I want -- I just --

especially young people.

I want to say,

"You really can't
give that legs."

"You can't give it breath."

"It's not real, unless

you allow it to consume you,
and you make it real."

Um, so...

you know, teenagers, who
go through this.

They don't have the resources

to leave their high schools,

or move out of their
communities,

and they are very trapped.

And it's overwhelming for them.

And, some of these trolls

have such a large presence,

creating bots, and multiple avatars,

that these teenagers feel like

they're being attacked
by hundreds of people,

when, really, they're not.

They're being attacked by a few,

who make themselves out
to be bigger.

Well, that's what bullies do.

They puff their chest.

They want to feel big.

They want to feel like
they've got a lot of power.

And, for teenagers,

it's often inescapable, and

it results in suicidal ideation,
and even suicide.

So, they need strong support systems.

Their parents, their friends.
They need counseling.

But, more than that,

they need to remember
that these people

are only real, and powerful,
if you let them be.

It's important to reach out,
and communicate,

and call them on what
they are doing,

before they become
a real problem.

[S. DaSilva] You had to leave
your home, correct?

How many times
have you had to move?

[S. Markle] Twice.

[S. DaSilva] Twice. And, from
Florida, to Virginia?

[S. Markle] I moved from Florida
to Virginia,

and then, the same thing
happened in Virginia.

They were sharing my address,

and asking me if
it sounded familiar.

Um, showing pictures of me,
behind a scope.

But, it got worse than that.

They were sharing, uh, images
of me, being seen through

our security cameras.

Or, me, outside, with
my boyfriend

helping me
get into my vehicle.

That could've only been
either planted in trees, or

seen through
our own devices.

Which let me know
that I was very hacked,

and I was being watched.

Um, they shared pictures

of my boyfriend, looking at himself

on his own cell phone.

Which let me know

that they had hacked
our devices.

And, their apps had
camera access.

And, they were mentioning

conversations that we had
in our living room,

about money,
or other things.

And they would say,

"Hey, what about that
thousand dollars?"

So, they were
acquiescing

to not only stalking,

but hacking.

For someone like me...

I'm a counselor,

I'm pretty intelligent,

you know, I think
I can handle it, and

analyze it for what it is?

But, for a teenager...

who is, you know,

going through identity crisis,

and, you know,

has a self-esteem

that is not totally
evolved, yet?

It can be terrifying.

When you know
you are being watched,

and everything that you do

is being twisted,

and used against you,
to defame you,

and to threaten.

So -- yeah, cyber-bullying
is horrible,

and I think that
the burden really needs

to be on social media
platforms.

Twitter, facebook,
Instagram. All of them.

Um, especially the new ones,
coming up.

To have strict
identification measures

in place, for its users,
to prevent this.

[S. DaSilva] So, you moved
to Polk county

about six months ago?

[S. Markle] Yeah.

[S. DaSilva] Did you
want to say

what town we are in,
right now?

Or would you want to
just keep it at Polk county?

[S. Markle] Yeah.
[S. DaSilva] Okay.

Why did you choose
Polk county?

[S. Markle] It's gorgeous.

I love the lakes,
I love, you know --

it's, uh -- it's
a little more central.

Where I was --
Well, I didn't like fire ants.

In Ocala, it seemed to be
one of those things

that was just indigenous
to the area, so.

Um, but I really...

I wanted the happy medium.

Being close to water,

as I was in
Southern California.

And here, I have it,
without the smog.

But, I have family here,

and I love the people here.

So, I'm staying.

[S. DaSilva] Okay.

And, you moved about
six months ago.

And, this summer,

you filed a complaint
with the sheriff's office.

Why did you do that?

[S. Markle] Because,

I was being
stalked and harassed.

Um, my boyfriend
got a ticket

for a tail light
on a trailer, being out.

And, it was supposed
to stay confidential.

But, the address
on that ticket

was somehow released,
because

trolls were able to comb through

courthouse computer databases.

The problem with that is,
that, you know --

yeah, some court records
are private,

but it wasn't in the news.

And, I was having my
identity and my location

protected by a real estate
company,

under the circumstances.

[S. DaSilva] Can we just
take that time code down?

Because she said the address,

and we did want to
put this interview online?

So, I don't think we want to
put the address online. Correct?

[S. Markle] Okay. Sorry.

[Man] About 14:56.
Right around there.

[S. DaSilva] Okay.

Just so, when we go back,
we can take that out, for you.

[Man] Be careful.

[S. Markle] I know, I know.

[S. DaSilva] Um, sorry.
14:56 something?

[Man] Yeah,
right around 14:56, yeah.

[S. DaSilva] Okay.

[S. Markle] Okay.
[S. DaSilva] Okay, sorry.

[S. Markle] So, so.

They were saying:

"Hey, does this number
or this street match?"

"Does this sound familiar?"

And, I, you know --

in other words, they
were taunting me,

with my address,
and my location,

letting me know

that they were out there,
sharing it.

They were also sharing, um,
screenshot admissions

of having my
Social Security number.

Then, they said, they said,

"Oh, but we guessed
your Social Security number."

Well, out of all the billions
of possible combinations?

That couldn't be possible.

So -- you know,
they were telling on themselves.

And the bottom line, here,
is that

there is very private information
that they were actively, all day,

obsessed about and combing,
to get every little detail about me.

That acquiesces to stalking.

Because uh, uh, you know,
someone who you don't know

doesn't have a right
to be looking,

to see if there is
anything about you in court,

to see what's going on
with your medical records.

To share your address.

To be direct messaging people
and asking questions about you.

Unless they are a reporter,
or they have some valid reason,

for...getting every piece of information
they can, about you,

and taunting you with it.

Like: "Hey, what about this?
And what about that?"

Well, who are you,

to ask me "What about this
and what about that?"

And, to try and spin it,

to villainize or criminalize me?

So, for -- I can see how,
for teenagers,

that's overwhelming.

[S. DaSilva] Mm-hm. Yeah.
You talked about the teenagers.

But, has the sheriff's office
been open to your complaint,

and been taking it seriously?

[S. Markle] Yeah, since we started
this whole thing.

You know, I showed them
everything,

and let them know
what was going on.

And, you know, I --
I'm really lucky,

to live in a state
that takes that seriously.

You know, the cyber-stalking
and "stand your ground" laws.

I feel really safe.

And it's nice to know

that law enforcement
is proactive about that.

You know, you can't
do that to a person.

You can't taunt them,
put them in fear,

um, intimidate them --

harass them --

and encourage others,
on a wide scale,

to engage in
targeted harassment.

It's -- nobody, nobody
deserves to live like that.

And, certainly not
for expressing freedom of speech.

Because, you're a journalist.

If you did a report, and somebody
didn't like something you had to say,

You know...it's really psychotic,
that anybody would

go to that extreme,
to suppress what you have to say,

and to make every corner of your life
public information,

twisting it in a negative way.

To put you in fear, or shame.

[S. DaSilva] And, your reaction to
the news spreading across the world

that you were the target
of the investigation for

things you have said
about your sister,

vs. what actually is happening.

[S. Markle] Well -- and I think
that's really important too,

because there is a problem
with aggregate news.

I understand that journalists
and bloggers get so busy,

and a lot of them, you know --

there is often, on one side
of, you know, the coin,

there is paid P. R.
that spins things.

But there is also
aggregate news error, that happens.

When they see fragments
of information,

they don't have a lot
of time to pop the stories out,

and they just copy them verbatim.

Maybe, with extra words,
and spin it a little bit more.

And suddenly,
the victim becomes the suspect.

Because someone didn't understand

what "being at the center
of investigation" means.

Well, it doesn't mean
I'm the suspect.

And, they didn't ask.
They didn't bother to ask.

They just assumed,
and put it in print,

that I was the suspect,
not the victim.

Shouldn't happen.

[S. DaSilva] So there, as you --
Are you afraid for your life?

Here in Polk county?

[S. Markle] Well, yeah, I have been.

And, and, you know,
if you can imagine

seeing your face
on a bulls-eye

behind broken glass,
or on a dartboard.

And, pictures of someone
like Matt Damon,

looking through a
high-powered scope,

a clip from a film,
or a GIF.

And, "You can run
but you can't hide, Samantha."

Those things are symbolic,
and they are put out there

with the intent
of putting you in fear.

Intimidating you,

preventing you from
publishing a book,

um -- which happened, too.
You know...

"We're gonna,
if you put your book out,

we're gonna download it,
and share it for free,

so nobody buys it."

Those are -- those are
intimidation, uh, tactics,

that are against the law.

On many levels.

And so, yeah,
it was scary for me.

I am in a wheelchair.

I don't need to feel like,

I am a slow moving target,
going out of my own home.

Nobody has a right
to do that to me, and

they are subject
to legal sanction.

It's just -- that's not how
a legal, you know,

high functioning society
operates.

And, those criminals need
to be made examples of.

They need to experience
specific deterrents, under the law.

And, they need to be
made out to be, you know,

examples of general deterrents.

So other would-be
cyber-bullies know,

"Hey, don't do the crime,
if you can't do the time,"

and most local
law enforcement,

local and federal
law enforcement agencies,

will come get ya.

You know, VPN or not,

there are ways to
find these offenders.

[S. DaSilva] What do you say
to critics who say,

"You spoke out. You know,
you were vocal, you wrote a book."

[S. Markle] Well --

[S. DaSilva] "You tweeted..."

[S. Markle] But, writing a book
and speaking out...

you know, my father
had two heart attacks.

I didn't agree with
my sister's treatment of the family.

That does not give
some of these unhinged people

license, or the right

to engage in criminal activity
against me.

Stalk, harass, incite violence
against me.

It's like, any of us
who have fought

for freedom of speech,

whether the issue
is gender, race, political issues,

just because you say something

doesn't give people who disagree
with you,

the right to put you in fear
and suppress your opinion,

by threatening you
when you do.

And that, you know --

I think that's what
we really need to make a precedent.

We're not tolerating this
any more.

We all have to 'agree to disagree'
under the law,

because if you take it
beyond those legal boundaries,

and you engage in
criminal activity, intent,

you know, um --
intimidation, and harassment,

um, with the intent
to put someone in fear,

if they speak?

It's against the law.

[S. DaSilva] Do you have any regrets

for anything that has happened,
since, you said,

around the royal wedding?

[S. Markle] Um...

the only regret...

no, I don't have regrets.

Because I was being honest.

And I've always said,

"You shouldn't regret
telling the truth."

And, when you tell the truth,
you know --

yeah, I don't think
the whistle blower is the problem.

But, if you do it
from a heartfelt place,

and it's about family,

and it's about
something you care about,

when you tell the truth,

the person on the
receiving end,

or who you are
telling the truth about,

has the opportunity,

but, I believe also,
responsibility,

to say,

"Hey. Let me hear what
you have to say.

Let's communicate.

Let's have a meeting
of the minds,

and make things better.

Let's do what's right, here."

And, the only way
the right thing can happen

is if people
talk about it.

Silence, as
the status quo,

accomplishes nothing.

So, you know,

where people were afraid
to speak,

because of this high prestige
issue, um...

it's wrong.

Because there's a real
family issue there.

The public got involved.

They took it too far,
without saying,

"Hey, they are family.

They can speak out
if they want to.

It's not really
our business."

But, they had their
own agendas.

So, you can't suppress
freedom of speech.

Or, none of us
would be here,

and you wouldn't have
a journalism job.

[S. DaSilva] Obviously, I think

there are similarities, here.

Between what you are saying,

and what
your sister is saying,

and her husband.

[S. Markle] Right.

[S. DaSilva] About how
they've been treated,

[S. Markle] Exactly.

[S. DaSilva] In the media, with

false reports, online harassment,
and trolling.

How do you feel --

do you have compassion
for them, in that way?

[S. Markle] I do, and I've also
learned, through this,

that you know, in terms of
aggregate news,

at one point,
they were seeing stories,

probably reacting to
what they thought we said,

or what they thought
we were doing.

We were --
it was very reciprocal.

We were reacting.

But, the bottom line is,

there was so much
propaganda out there,

that none of us really knew
where the truth was.

And similarly,
with the bullying.

You know, the people
that disagree with her

have bullied her,
to threatening extremes.

They bullied Kate and William.

They've bullied me.

But they have --
the difference is,

they have the money
and the social, um,

or the financial resources,
to protect themselves against that.

A normal person,

like me and my dad,
you know, our family --

we don't.

[S. DaSilva] Mm-hm.

[S. Markle] We just got
caught in the middle of it.

But, nonetheless,
we had the right

to speak our feelings.

[S. DaSilva] There are people,
I'm sure,

I will get tweets, facebook posts,
whatever, saying

you even doing this interview

is you still trying to get publicity
off your sister.

Why are you
speaking out today?

[S. Markle] I am speaking out today
because

there has been this really, uh,
interesting phenomena, of

...people have always
demanded their freedom of speech.

They speak out against
the President.

They speak out against,
you know,

whatever the issue is.

Or, the celebrity.

And, nobody says,
"You just want attention."

They're just out there,

exercising their
freedom of speech.

But because of this
royal situation,

suddenly, it's all about,

"Oh, you must
want attention."

Well, I worked in
broadcasting

for a long time.

I am fifty-four.

I don't need attention.

It, it, it was a family issue,

it was heartfelt.

I was concerned with

my father dying,
without closure.

And, and,
in our communities,

because there was no
invitation to the wedding,

it became public.

And the assumption was,

"Oh, you must not
be worthy,

since you weren't invited."

So, it's not like
It was a wedding in Ohio.

And, we wanted attention:

"Oh, why didn't
we get invited."

It's because
all of our peers in the world

were suddenly, you know,

putting us under
a microscope,

"Why didn't you get invited?"

And it was some sort of
character indictment.

The implication that,

"Oh, you must not
be worthy."

And then,
aggregate news

started spinning assumptions:

about the book,
about family members.

And it got out of control.

So, um. Do I want attention?

No.

What I really wanted
out of all of this,

was my sister to realize,

"Hey. I got caught up
in a whirlwind.

What I did to my dad
was wrong.

We're all bigger people.

Let's evolve,
and do the right thing."

And it takes
just as much time

to do the right thing,

as it does to ignore it.

And, um,

I'd like to see him
be able to communicate with her,

before he passes away.

[S. DaSilva] That was going to be
my next question.

What do you hope
for your relationship with Meghan,

and your father's
relationship with her?

For her to reach out?

[S. Markle] At some point,
when she is ready.

But, you know, with me.

But, with my father,

'at some point'
may be too late.

So, you know --

our repeated efforts
to extend an olive branch...

I would assume, you know

when interacting with a, quote,
"humanitarian,"

would be met with
a very humble, um,

acceptance, and yeah,

"Let's look at this.
Let's make this better."

And, that's all
I was trying to say.

And, if that's bashing,
wow.

Then, so, sue me.

[S. DaSilva] There were
some bashing tweets.

[S. Markle] But that's, you know --

'Bashing?' Well...

I think a lot of the media
labeled it as bashing,

like, if I did
the thing I said about

Harry at the birthday,

"While you're mac-ing down
on your birthday cake,

don't forget to wish Dad
a Happy Birthday."

Is that bashing,
or is it witty?

The problem --

[S. DaSilva] I think
you called him a wuss.

[S. Markle] Yeah. Take your
pants back. Be a man.

Because,

the whole family
was being ghosted,

and I felt like,

"Hey. You know,

you're a man, too.
You're letting my father suffer."

And, there was no real invitation.

Uh...so, I felt like,

somebody has to step up,
and do the right thing,

and say something.

I worked in broadcasting.

I'm a counselor.

I believe in communication.

And, nobody was saying anything.

And the problem with tweets, though,

is that you can't hear
tone of voice.

So, while I thought
I was saying something

maybe cynical, maybe witty,

people couldn't hear it.

They were interpreting it
through their own life lenses.

Maybe they were angry.

Maybe they've got a
negative lens

over everything
in their lives.

And, then,
they were reacting to it

from their own
personal perspectives.

Which does not
always coincide with

the sender intent.

So, I think that's
something really important

about social media, too.

And because
there can be those crossed wires,

and they can be
emotionally heated,

twitter and facebook
and Instagram

have more of
an obligation

to...not moderate that,

but, to keep it safe,

when people's intrepretations
carry it to such heated levels,

that it crosses over
into criminal activity.

That, you know, people are --

[S. DaSilva] People say things
on social media

they would never say
to someone's face.

[S. Markle] Right! Because
the avatar, you know, is a shield.

It's a false source
of empowerment.

You know, in the animal kingdom,

they puff their chest,
to look bigger than they are.

Well, they can do that
on social media.

Behind an avatar.

"Ooh, big words,
on an avatar."

"I've got a flower out there,
or a kitty cat.

But I'm going to say
big, disgusting, terrifying things,"

and, you know...

It's...not good.

[S. DaSilva] How is
your dad doing?

[S. Markle] He's doing okay.

He's doing better. He's, um...

feeling, you know...

I think, more empowered.

This has been...

a growth opportunity
for all of us.

But, I think
more than anything,

it's really interesting
that the royals,

Meg and Harry,

and, you know,
this side of the fence,

the Markles,

we are all
kind of saying the same thing.

It is that you can have,

especially with the family,

if there is an issue out there,
or a social issue,

you can disagree,

but you don't take it
to the level of incredible,

terrorizing, taunting,
intimidation,

threats.

That's where we cap it.

[S. DaSilva] Your father doesn't live
in Polk county as well, does he?

[S. Markle] Hmm-mm.

[S. DaSilva] Okay.

Um...I read some articles...

I think you had said
that you

raised Meghan
until she was twelve,

pretty much? Or?

[S. Markle] See, here is where

I am gonna talk --

[S. DaSilva] I'm gonna
fact-check that.

[S. Markle] Here's where
I am gonna

talk about aggregate news, see.

[S. DaSilva] Yeah.

[S. Markle] Even a journalist
like you,

and a lot of
other journalists,

and talk show hostesses,
believe that.

And I was sitting here, going,

"Wow. Where did you hear that?"

[S. DaSilva] Mm-hmm.

[S. Markle] Because I had said
in one interview,

"I was integral in her life,
until about twelve."

I always lived about
ten minutes away,

she was born
in our household,

my dad and Doria divorced
when she was about six.

Still, it was during the week,
weekends, intermingling,

you know, when
I wasn't working.

And life was very normal.

For families with big sisters,
and you know, younger kids.

But some journalists
took it upon themselves

to say:

"She said she raised her."

I never said I raised her.

I said "I was integral in her life,
until about twelve."

And then, even interacting
all the way up through Northwestern.

And when she was in Buenos Aires.

And, even when...

So, to set the record straight,

the last time I saw her was 2008.

The last time I spoke to her
on the phone was 2015, December,

going on January, 2016.

The last week of December.

So, no, it's not like --

and people said,

"Oh, she hasn't spoken -- "