0:00:07.845,0:00:08.995 Andrew Forrest: Plastic. 0:00:09.600,0:00:11.288 Simple as that. 0:00:11.312,0:00:18.305 Our inability to use it for the tremendous[br]energetic commodity that it is, 0:00:18.329,0:00:19.705 and just throw it away. 0:00:28.776,0:00:30.226 AF: That's in the Philippines, 0:00:30.250,0:00:33.155 and you know, there's a lot of rivers,[br]ladies and gentlemen, 0:00:33.180,0:00:34.561 which look exactly like that. 0:00:34.561,0:00:35.894 And that's the Philippines. 0:00:35.919,0:00:37.489 So it's all over Southeast Asia. 0:03:05.349,0:03:06.946 AF: No, we really haven't. 0:03:06.970,0:03:10.194 The Ellen MacArthur Foundation,[br]they're a bunch of good scientists, 0:03:10.218,0:03:12.266 we've been working with them for a while. 0:03:12.291,0:03:14.031 I've completely verified their work. 0:03:14.055,0:03:16.761 They say there will be[br]one ton of plastic, Chris, 0:03:16.785,0:03:19.305 for every three tons[br]of fish by, not 2050 -- 0:03:19.329,0:03:23.934 and I really get impatient with people[br]who talk about 2050 -- by 2025. 0:03:23.958,0:03:25.201 That's around the corner. 0:03:25.225,0:03:27.348 That's just the here and now. 0:03:27.372,0:03:30.631 You don't need one ton of plastic[br]to completely wipe out marine life. 0:03:30.655,0:03:33.717 Less than that is going[br]to do a fine job at it. 0:03:33.741,0:03:38.211 So we have to end it straightaway.[br]We've got no time. 0:05:58.904,0:06:00.884 CA: So that's the fundamental problem, 0:06:00.908,0:06:05.018 the price of recycled plastic[br]is usually more 0:06:05.042,0:06:09.558 than the price of just buying[br]it made fresh from more oil. 0:06:09.582,0:06:11.129 That's the fundamental problem. 0:11:20.689,0:11:21.841 AF: All over the world. 0:11:21.865,0:11:23.913 Because the technology[br]is low-capital cost, 0:11:23.937,0:11:26.974 you can put it in at rubbish dumps,[br]at the bottom of big hotels, 0:11:26.998,0:11:28.300 garbage depots, everywhere, 0:11:28.324,0:11:29.618 turn that waste into resin. 0:12:06.189,0:12:11.071 (Applause) 0:12:11.095,0:12:14.526 You've talked to other companies,[br]like to the Coca-Colas of this world, 0:12:14.550,0:12:17.688 who are willing to do this,[br]they're willing to pay a higher price, 0:12:17.712,0:12:19.539 they would like to pay a higher price, 0:12:19.563,0:12:20.718 so long as it's fair. 0:00:01.111,0:00:03.969 Chris Anderson: So, you've been[br]obsessed with this problem 0:00:03.993,0:00:05.757 for the last few years. 0:00:05.781,0:00:07.821 What is the problem, in your own words? 0:00:20.838,0:00:23.909 CA: And so we see waste everywhere. 0:00:23.933,0:00:26.397 At its extreme, it looks a bit like this. 0:00:26.421,0:00:28.752 I mean, where was this picture taken? 0:00:37.688,0:00:39.669 CA: So plastic is thrown into the rivers, 0:00:39.693,0:00:42.302 and from there, of course,[br]it ends up in the ocean. 0:00:42.994,0:00:46.567 I mean, we obviously[br]see it on the beaches, 0:00:46.591,0:00:49.133 but that's not even your main concern. 0:00:49.157,0:00:52.624 It's what's actually happening to it[br]in the oceans. Talk about that. 0:00:52.648,0:00:55.149 AF: OK, so look. Thank you, Chris. 0:00:55.173,0:00:56.347 About four years ago, 0:00:56.371,0:00:59.690 I thought I'd do something[br]really barking crazy, 0:00:59.714,0:01:04.422 and I committed to do a PhD[br]in marine ecology. 0:01:04.446,0:01:07.663 And the scary part about that was, 0:01:07.687,0:01:09.604 sure, I learned a lot about marine life, 0:01:09.628,0:01:11.848 but it taught me more about marine death 0:01:11.872,0:01:18.032 and the extreme mass[br]ecological fatality of fish, 0:01:18.056,0:01:20.312 of marine life, marine mammals, 0:01:20.336,0:01:22.800 very close biology to us, 0:01:22.824,0:01:27.062 which are dying in the millions[br]if not trillions that we can't count 0:01:27.086,0:01:28.762 at the hands of plastic. 0:01:28.786,0:01:32.627 CA: But people think of plastic[br]as ugly but stable. Right? 0:01:32.652,0:01:36.091 You throw something in the ocean,[br]"Hey, it'll just sit there forever. 0:01:36.115,0:01:37.761 Can't do any damage, right?" 0:01:37.785,0:01:44.552 AF: See, Chris, it's an incredible[br]substance designed for the economy. 0:01:44.576,0:01:49.272 It is the worst substance possible[br]for the environment. 0:01:49.296,0:01:52.483 The worst thing about plastics,[br]as soon as it hits the environment, 0:01:52.507,0:01:55.291 is that it fragments. 0:01:55.315,0:01:57.758 It never stops being plastic. 0:01:57.782,0:02:00.477 It breaks down smaller[br]and smaller and smaller, 0:02:00.501,0:02:03.149 and the breaking science on this, Chris, 0:02:03.173,0:02:05.831 which we've known in marine ecology[br]for a few years now, 0:02:05.855,0:02:07.795 but it's going to hit humans. 0:02:07.918,0:02:11.089 We are aware now that nanoplastic, 0:02:11.113,0:02:15.715 the very, very small particles of plastic,[br]carrying their negative charge, 0:02:15.739,0:02:18.541 can go straight through[br]the pores of your skin. 0:02:19.390,0:02:20.565 That's not the bad news. 0:02:20.589,0:02:25.131 The bad news is that it goes[br]straight through the blood-brain barrier, 0:02:25.155,0:02:28.039 that protective coating which is there[br]to protect your brain. 0:02:28.063,0:02:32.070 Your brain's a little amorphous, wet mass[br]full of little electrical charges. 0:02:32.094,0:02:35.371 You put a negative particle into that, 0:02:35.395,0:02:38.924 particularly a negative particle[br]which can carry pathogens, 0:02:38.948,0:02:42.532 so you have a negative charge,[br]it attracts positive-charge elements, 0:02:42.556,0:02:44.980 like pathogens, toxins, 0:02:45.004,0:02:46.451 mercury, lead. 0:02:46.595,0:02:49.848 That's the breaking science[br]we're going to see in the next 12 months. 0:02:49.873,0:02:53.428 CA: So already I think you told me[br]that there's like 600 plastic bags or so 0:02:53.453,0:02:57.014 for every fish that size[br]in the ocean, something like that. 0:02:57.388,0:03:00.261 And they're breaking down, 0:03:00.285,0:03:02.324 and there's going to be ever more of them, 0:03:02.348,0:03:05.325 and we haven't even seen the start[br]of the consequences of that. 0:03:38.235,0:03:42.604 CA: OK, so you have an idea for ending it,[br]and you're coming at this 0:03:42.628,0:03:45.319 not as a typical environmental[br]campaigner, I would say, 0:03:45.343,0:03:48.533 but as a businessmen,[br]as an entrepreneur, who has lived -- 0:03:48.557,0:03:52.046 you've spent your whole life thinking[br]about global economic systems 0:03:52.070,0:03:53.723 and how they work. 0:03:53.747,0:03:55.351 And if I understand it right, 0:03:55.375,0:04:01.897 your idea depends on heroes[br]who look something like this. 0:04:01.921,0:04:03.433 What's her profession? 0:04:03.457,0:04:06.666 AF: She, Chris, is a ragpicker, 0:04:06.690,0:04:10.408 and there were 15, 20 million[br]ragpickers like her, 0:04:10.432,0:04:14.688 until China stopped taking[br]everyone's waste. 0:04:14.712,0:04:18.927 And the price of plastic,[br]minuscule that it was, collapsed. 0:04:18.951,0:04:20.737 That led to people like her, 0:04:20.761,0:04:24.979 which, now -- she is a child[br]who is a schoolchild. 0:04:25.003,0:04:26.668 She should be at school. 0:04:26.692,0:04:28.958 That's probably very akin to slavery. 0:04:28.982,0:04:31.953 My daughter Grace and I have met[br]hundreds of people like her. 0:04:31.977,0:04:35.532 CA: And there are many adults as well,[br]literally millions around the world, 0:04:35.556,0:04:36.732 and in some industries, 0:04:36.756,0:04:39.321 they actually account[br]for the fact that, for example, 0:04:39.345,0:04:41.547 we don't see a lot[br]of metal waste in the world. 0:04:41.571,0:04:42.791 AF: That's exactly right. 0:04:42.815,0:04:45.945 That little girl is, in fact,[br]the hero of the environment. 0:04:45.969,0:04:49.576 She's in competition with[br]a great big petrochemical plant 0:04:49.600,0:04:50.950 which is just down the road, 0:04:50.974,0:04:53.655 the three-and-a-half-billion-dollar[br]petrochemical plant. 0:04:53.679,0:04:54.838 That's the problem. 0:04:54.862,0:04:59.307 We've got more oil and gas[br]in plastic and landfill 0:04:59.331,0:05:03.100 than we have in the entire oil and gas[br]resources of the United States. 0:05:03.124,0:05:05.147 So she is the hero. 0:05:05.171,0:05:08.137 And that's what that landfill looks like,[br]ladies and gentlemen, 0:05:08.161,0:05:10.579 and it's solid oil and gas. 0:05:10.603,0:05:14.275 CA: So there's huge value[br]potentially locked up in there 0:05:14.299,0:05:18.838 that the world's ragpickers would,[br]if they could, make a living from. 0:05:18.862,0:05:20.462 But why can't they? 0:05:21.303,0:05:24.565 AF: Because we have ingrained in us 0:05:24.589,0:05:28.925 a price of plastic from fossil fuels, 0:05:28.949,0:05:32.520 which sits just under what it takes 0:05:32.544,0:05:37.094 to economically and profitably[br]recycle plastic from plastic. 0:05:37.118,0:05:42.152 See, all plastic is[br]is building blocks from oil and gas. 0:05:42.176,0:05:46.061 Plastic's 100 percent polymer,[br]which is 100 percent oil and gas. 0:05:46.085,0:05:48.484 And you know we've got[br]enough plastic in the world 0:05:48.508,0:05:49.688 for all our needs. 0:05:49.712,0:05:52.232 And when we recycle plastic, 0:05:52.256,0:05:55.521 if we can't recycle it cheaper[br]than fossil fuel plastic, 0:05:55.545,0:05:58.880 then, of course, the world[br]just sticks to fossil fuel plastic. 0:06:11.153,0:06:14.292 AF: A slight tweak[br]of the rules here, Chris. 0:06:14.316,0:06:16.084 I'm a commodity person. 0:06:16.108,0:06:23.107 I understand that we used to have[br]scrap metal and rubbish iron 0:06:23.131,0:06:26.142 and bits of copper lying[br]all round the villages, 0:06:26.166,0:06:27.995 particularly in the developing world. 0:06:28.019,0:06:29.915 And people worked out it's got a value. 0:06:29.939,0:06:33.094 It's actually an article of value, 0:06:33.118,0:06:34.538 not of waste. 0:06:34.562,0:06:37.740 Now the villages and the cities[br]and the streets are clean, 0:06:37.764,0:06:42.302 you don't trip over scrap copper[br]or scrap iron now, 0:06:42.326,0:06:45.681 because it's an article of value,[br]it gets recycled. 0:06:45.705,0:06:51.298 CA: So what's your idea, then,[br]to try to change that in plastics? 0:06:51.322,0:06:52.934 AF: OK, so Chris, 0:06:52.958,0:06:56.917 for most part of that PhD,[br]I've been doing research. 0:06:56.941,0:07:00.212 And the good thing about being[br]a businessperson who's done OK at it 0:07:00.236,0:07:02.097 is that people want to see you. 0:07:02.121,0:07:03.286 Other businesspeople, 0:07:03.310,0:07:07.413 even if you're kind of a bit of a zoo[br]animal species they'd like to check out, 0:07:07.437,0:07:09.923 they'll say, yeah, OK,[br]we'll all meet Twiggy Forrest. 0:07:09.947,0:07:11.816 And so once you're in there, 0:07:11.840,0:07:13.360 you can interrogate them. 0:07:13.384,0:07:19.353 And I've been to most of the oil and gas[br]and fast-moving consumer good companies 0:07:19.377,0:07:20.578 in the world, 0:07:20.602,0:07:23.682 and there is a real will to change. 0:07:23.706,0:07:25.511 I mean, there's a couple of dinosaurs 0:07:25.535,0:07:28.023 who are going to hope[br]for the best and do nothing, 0:07:28.047,0:07:29.997 but there's a real will to change. 0:07:30.021,0:07:31.810 So what I've been discussing is, 0:07:31.834,0:07:35.310 the seven and a half billion[br]people in the world 0:07:35.334,0:07:39.251 don't actually deserve to have[br]their environment smashed by plastic, 0:07:39.275,0:07:44.487 their oceans rendered depauperate[br]or barren of sea life because of plastic. 0:07:44.511,0:07:45.944 So you come down that chain, 0:07:45.968,0:07:50.111 and there's tens of thousands of brands[br]which we all buy heaps of products from, 0:07:50.135,0:07:53.610 but then there's only a hundred[br]major resin producers, 0:07:53.634,0:07:55.770 big petrochemical plants, 0:07:55.794,0:07:58.513 that spew out all the plastic[br]which is single use. 0:07:58.537,0:07:59.920 CA: So one hundred companies 0:07:59.944,0:08:02.445 are right at the base[br]of this food chain, as it were. 0:08:02.469,0:08:03.628 AF: Yeah. 0:08:03.652,0:08:06.597 CA: And so what do you need[br]those one hundred companies to do? 0:08:06.621,0:08:11.170 AF: OK, so we need them[br]to simply raise the value 0:08:11.194,0:08:14.058 of the building blocks of plastic[br]from oil and gas, 0:08:14.082,0:08:16.657 which I call "bad plastic," 0:08:16.681,0:08:17.983 raise the value of that, 0:08:18.007,0:08:21.836 so that when it spreads through the brands[br]and onto us, the customers, 0:08:21.860,0:08:26.317 we won't barely even notice[br]an increase in our coffee cup 0:08:26.341,0:08:29.324 or Coke or Pepsi, or anything. 0:08:29.348,0:08:31.112 CA: Like, what, like a cent extra? 0:08:31.136,0:08:33.134 AF: Less. Quarter of a cent, half a cent. 0:08:33.158,0:08:36.348 It'll be absolutely minimal. 0:08:36.372,0:08:37.625 But what it does, 0:08:37.649,0:08:42.341 it makes every bit of plastic[br]all over the world an article of value. 0:08:42.365,0:08:45.842 Where you have the waste worst, 0:08:45.866,0:08:47.750 say Southeast Asia, India, 0:08:47.774,0:08:49.855 that's where the wealth is most. 0:08:49.879,0:08:52.332 CA: OK, so it feels like[br]there's two parts to this. 0:08:52.356,0:08:56.354 One is, if they will charge more money 0:08:56.378,0:08:59.561 but carve out that excess 0:08:59.585,0:09:04.055 and pay it -- into what? --[br]a fund operated by someone 0:09:04.079,0:09:06.844 to tackle this problem of -- what? 0:09:06.868,0:09:10.459 What would that money be used for,[br]that they charge the extra for? 0:09:10.483,0:09:12.943 AF: So when I speak[br]to really big businesses, 0:09:12.967,0:09:16.513 I say, "Look, I need you to change,[br]and I need you to change really fast," 0:09:16.537,0:09:19.253 their eyes are going[br]to peel over in boredom, 0:09:19.277,0:09:21.616 unless I say, "And it's good business." 0:09:21.640,0:09:23.733 "OK, now you've got my attention, Andrew." 0:09:23.757,0:09:26.593 So I say, "Right, I need[br]you to make a contribution 0:09:26.617,0:09:29.153 to an environmental[br]and industry transition fund. 0:09:29.177,0:09:30.612 Over two or three years, 0:09:30.636,0:09:32.833 the entire global plastics industry 0:09:32.857,0:09:36.963 can transition from getting[br]its building blocks from fossil fuel 0:09:36.987,0:09:39.082 to getting its building[br]blocks from plastic. 0:09:39.106,0:09:40.567 The technology is out there. 0:09:40.591,0:09:41.861 It's proven." 0:09:41.885,0:09:45.362 I've taken two multibillion-dollar[br]operations from nothing, 0:09:45.386,0:09:48.205 recognizing that[br]the technology can be scaled. 0:09:48.229,0:09:52.723 I see at least a dozen technologies[br]in plastic to handle all types of plastic. 0:09:52.747,0:09:56.299 So once those technologies[br]have an economic margin, 0:09:56.323,0:09:58.245 which this gives them, 0:09:58.269,0:10:01.533 that's where the global public[br]will get all their plastic from, 0:10:01.557,0:10:03.431 from existing plastic. 0:10:03.455,0:10:07.596 CA: So every sale of virgin plastic[br]contributes money to a fund 0:10:07.620,0:10:10.454 that is used to basically[br]transition the industry 0:10:10.478,0:10:13.321 and start to pay for things[br]like cleanup and other pieces. 0:10:13.345,0:10:14.710 AF: Absolutely. Absolutely. 0:10:14.734,0:10:16.746 CA: And it has[br]the incredible side benefit, 0:10:16.770,0:10:18.551 which is maybe even the main benefit, 0:10:18.575,0:10:19.925 of creating a market. 0:10:19.949,0:10:23.081 It suddenly makes recyclable plastic 0:10:23.105,0:10:27.694 a giant business that can unlock[br]millions of people around the world 0:10:27.718,0:10:29.559 to find a new living collecting it. 0:10:29.583,0:10:30.736 AF: Yeah, exactly. 0:10:30.760,0:10:35.284 So all you do is, you've got fossil[br]fuel plastics at this value 0:10:35.308,0:10:37.365 and recycled plastic at this value. 0:10:37.389,0:10:38.702 You change it. 0:10:38.726,0:10:41.313 So recycled plastic is cheaper. 0:10:41.636,0:10:44.803 What I love about this most, Chris,[br]is that, you know, 0:10:44.827,0:10:50.378 we waste into the environment[br]300, 350 million tons of plastic. 0:10:50.402,0:10:52.939 On the oil and gas companies own accounts, 0:10:52.963,0:10:54.979 it's going to grow to 500 million tons. 0:10:55.003,0:10:57.431 This is an accelerating problem. 0:10:57.455,0:11:01.205 But every ton of that is polymer. 0:11:01.229,0:11:04.733 Polymer is 1,000 dollars,[br]1,500 dollars a ton. 0:11:04.757,0:11:08.861 That's half a trillion dollars[br]which could go into business 0:11:08.885,0:11:12.424 and could create jobs and opportunities[br]and wealth right across the world, 0:11:12.448,0:11:14.447 particularly in the most impoverished. 0:11:14.471,0:11:15.728 Yet we throw it away. 0:11:15.752,0:11:19.132 CA: So this would allow the big companies[br]to invest in recycling plants 0:11:19.156,0:11:20.665 literally all over the world -- 0:11:29.642,0:11:31.240 CA: Now, you're a philanthropist, 0:11:31.264,0:11:34.053 and you're ready to commit[br]some of your own wealth to this. 0:11:34.077,0:11:36.375 What is the role of philanthropy[br]in this project? 0:11:36.399,0:11:40.233 AF: I think what we have to do[br]is kick in the 40 to 50 million US dollars 0:11:40.257,0:11:41.657 to get it going, 0:11:41.681,0:11:44.150 and then we have to create[br]absolute transparency 0:11:44.174,0:11:47.404 so everyone can see[br]exactly what's going on. 0:11:47.428,0:11:50.688 From the resin producers[br]to the brands to the consumers, 0:11:50.712,0:11:53.236 everyone gets to see[br]who is playing the game, 0:11:53.260,0:11:55.918 who is protecting the Earth,[br]and who doesn't care. 0:11:55.942,0:11:58.273 And that'll cost about[br]a million dollars a week, 0:11:58.297,0:12:00.683 and we're going to underwrite[br]that for five years. 0:12:00.707,0:12:03.537 Total contribution is circa[br]300 million US dollars. 0:12:03.561,0:12:04.888 CA: Wow. 0:12:04.912,0:12:06.165 Now -- 0:12:20.742,0:12:23.126 AF: Yeah, it's fair. 0:12:23.150,0:12:26.305 So, Coca-Cola wouldn't[br]like Pepsi to play ball 0:12:26.329,0:12:29.126 unless the whole world knew[br]that Pepsi wasn't playing ball. 0:12:29.150,0:12:30.324 Then they don't care. 0:12:30.348,0:12:33.242 So it's that transparency of the market 0:12:33.266,0:12:35.600 where, if people try and cheat the system, 0:12:35.624,0:12:37.985 the market can see it,[br]the consumers can see it. 0:12:38.009,0:12:40.135 The consumers want a role to play in this. 0:12:40.159,0:12:41.686 Seven and a half billion of us. 0:12:41.710,0:12:44.320 We don't want our world smashed[br]by a hundred companies. 0:12:44.344,0:12:47.152 CA: Well, so tell us, you've said[br]what the companies can do 0:12:47.176,0:12:48.643 and what you're willing to do. 0:12:48.667,0:12:50.060 What can people listening do? 0:12:50.084,0:12:52.381 AF: OK, so I would like all of us, 0:12:52.405,0:12:53.604 all around the world, 0:12:53.628,0:12:56.712 to go a website called noplasticwaste.org. 0:12:56.736,0:12:58.862 You contact your hundred resin producers 0:12:58.886,0:13:00.326 which are in your region. 0:13:00.350,0:13:02.023 You will have at least one 0:13:02.047,0:13:06.481 within an email or Twitter[br]or a telephone contact from you, 0:13:06.505,0:13:11.940 and let them know that you would like them[br]to make a contribution to a fund 0:13:11.964,0:13:14.591 which industry can manage[br]or the World Bank can manage. 0:13:14.615,0:13:18.309 It raises tens of billions[br]of dollars per year 0:13:18.333,0:13:23.015 so you can transition the industry[br]to getting all its plastic from plastic, 0:13:23.039,0:13:24.211 not from fossil fuel. 0:13:24.235,0:13:26.482 We don't need that.[br]That's bad. This is good. 0:13:26.506,0:13:28.518 And it can clean up the environment. 0:13:28.542,0:13:30.095 We've got enough capital there, 0:13:30.119,0:13:33.076 we've got tens of billions[br]of dollars, Chris, per annum 0:13:33.100,0:13:34.532 to clean up the environment. 0:13:34.556,0:13:36.331 CA: You're in the recycling business. 0:13:36.355,0:13:38.361 Isn't this a conflict of interest for you, 0:13:38.385,0:13:40.594 or rather, a huge business[br]opportunity for you? 0:13:40.619,0:13:42.750 AF: Yeah, look, I'm in[br]the iron ore business, 0:13:42.775,0:13:44.984 and I compete against[br]the scrap metal business, 0:13:45.008,0:13:48.443 and that's why you don't have[br]any scrap lying around to trip over, 0:13:48.467,0:13:49.916 and cut your toe on, 0:13:49.940,0:13:51.216 because it gets collected. 0:13:51.240,0:13:54.534 CA: This isn't your excuse[br]to go into the plastic recycling business. 0:13:54.558,0:13:56.879 AF: No, I am going to cheer for this boom. 0:13:56.903,0:13:59.014 This will be the internet[br]of plastic waste. 0:13:59.038,0:14:02.377 This will be a boom industry[br]which will spread all over the world, 0:14:02.401,0:14:06.460 and particularly where poverty is worst[br]because that's where the rubbish is most, 0:14:06.484,0:14:07.800 and that's the resource. 0:14:07.824,0:14:11.031 So I'm going to cheer for it[br]and stand back. 0:14:11.055,0:14:12.400 CA: Twiggy, we're in an era 0:14:12.424,0:14:17.089 where so many people around the world[br]are craving a new, regenerative economy, 0:14:17.113,0:14:19.742 these big supply chains,[br]these big industries, 0:14:19.766,0:14:21.807 to fundamentally transform. 0:14:21.831,0:14:23.563 It strikes me as a giant idea, 0:14:23.587,0:14:26.647 and you're going to need a lot of people[br]cheering you on your way 0:14:26.671,0:14:27.837 to make it happen. 0:14:27.861,0:14:29.536 Thank you for sharing this with us. 0:14:29.560,0:14:31.584 AF: Thank you very much. Thank you, Chris. 0:14:31.608,0:14:33.100 (Applause)