Hi, everybody! This is my small talk show about people who inspire me and people who motivate me to do smth So, today's guest is Kiki Febriyanti an independent filmmaker from Indonesia Hi, Kiki! How are you? Hi, I'm okay, how are you? I'm also okay I'm fine, thank you so much! Thank you so much for joining me today I suppose it's very important we have this conversation because I really want audience to know your way and your path and I also would like to ask you what it is to be an independent filmmaker today in this era, in this period but let's start from the beginning maybe you can tell us a little bit what urged your interest in filmmaking? How did you start? Well, it's long story haha but let's make it short because I have to be back to my childhood so, at the beginning at first actually I was inspired by best friend of my grandparents and he was a photojournalist so he often showed me his works and then I was thinking okay I will become photojournalist too just like him also my family loved watching movies and my parents my grandma my parents they often took me to to watch movies in cinema just nearby my house we just took a walk 5 minutes and it's already there and then I think the guy who worked there as cleaner already got used to got used to me like in the cinema, so usually before the cinema opens he invited me to just play inside just to take a look at the posters of the movies and just sit inside of the cinema before there are another audience so that's how I was interested in film so, it was from your very childhood when you were just a kid and then in 2008 there was when I was in university there was documentary filmmaking workshop In-Docs it came to my university in Jember East Java. East Java? yeah and then I tried to join this event and then I was selected my story was selected to to receive scholarship to be produced and then that's how I started filmmaking so, in 2008 I made my first documentary film so, it was like 12 years ago yeah, yes 12 years ago What was your first film? What was it about? It was about two persons who they were labelized as they have mental illness and I made the story about them about their feelings about their life How they struggle to to be accepted in society in their family and their environment so, it was about mental illness and it was about the place about the asylum, yes, because I've watched your film I know a little bit the plot yes, at the beginning it opened the founder told me it was just the place for learning Koran like reading Koran, but then many people came just to shelter these people so it became this kind of place like shelter for people with mental problems okay so yeah How did you find this story? How did you find these people? How did you find your subjects? actually I already was kind of like friends with the founder of Islamic boarding house The Al Ghafur boarding house because my mom was working as teacher in the elementary school near the boarding house that's how I knew him and I often curious because these people these people who stay there people with mental illness what people said just freely walked freely communicated with people in neighbourhood so they are not like in asylum like we think inside of the room they cannot go outside on the contrary, they are they make interaction make interaction with locals there that's what interesting for me yeah but I mean that this topic is quite specific yes and it's huuuh yeah like at the beginning usually we think they are dangerous they are we need to avoid them or smth like that but what I always learned from my childhood like they're just like us, they're just no difference with me they can communicate with people, they can socialize they can work and I'm thinking How is their life actually? facing the situation facing the society, facing their family it's interesting for me, it's just like how I see myself through through these people, through my subjects that's how and that's why I made this film How did your subjects react when they saw the camera? yeah actually it's funny thing yeah how the subject react to the camera in my case in that first film like the subject was I tried to make them like to get used to it with the camera so during the research I also brought I brought camera so they kind of got used to it and they were like okay with this like on the contrary one of the crew that I brought to the location who supposedly was asked to record this because I was directing so I tried to communicate with the subject and he needed to record he cannot, he's like nervous so somehow what unexpected reaction was not from the subject but from one of the crew yeah well actually this question always makes me wonder How do subjects any subjects react to the camera, yes? If we're talking about documentary filmmaking that's why I'm always interested in that I'm really happy you made this film and it is open if I'm not mistaken? so, the audience can watch yes, it's in the website called cultureunplugged,com so we can put it below sure and if I'm not mistaken you were selected with this film at different film festivals and you also attended STEPS International Film Festival of Human Rights In Ukraine, in Kharkiv. in Ukraine, yes in 2013, right? 2014, if I'm not mistaken it was long time ago no no no, it was in 2013, Ki ahhhh okay right? it was in 2013 yes yes You received the award within that festival you received an award for being the best documentary filmmaker and it was exactly with the film Jangan bilang aku gila / Don't call me crazy yeah Maybe you can tell us a little bit about your experience My first festival was in India it was selected in India for me to screen my film for the audience to wider audience it's already kind of like happiness yeah cause it is my goal to give awareness to people about this situation about my subject about the condition yeah and then when they I mean the festival gave me this award it's like a bonus because for me it's already happiness that people know the condition there in my hometown with these people so, yeah it's like a bonus it's like an extra happiness plus The Ambassador of Indonesia to Ukraine also attended Festival and she and the stuff also were very supportive so yeah, I was very happy with that you were happy to share with the audience, right to share the story yes, I can understand you so well Can I ask you about your second film? which was also independent and it was "Yup, it's my body" yes yeah How did you choose the topic and the subject? maybe you can tell us a little bit about that film So, actually this the second film "Yup, it's my body" I made that it's like a diary because I was about to graduate from my university soon and all those years I stayed with them with my subjects which were also my roommates my flatmates in boarding house and I noticed like some habit of us of all of us...like we always discussed about the body image I try to diet with this way I try to diet this way and It's like I asked them Why do you do this? What for? In my boarding house that time most of them tried to lose weight especially one of the closest friend her name is Sara she more often to share with me about her life her way something like that cause we're like family in that boarding house so I tried to document that as kind of like memorabilia so I recorded I started recording with Mini DV so I used that to record at the beginning I used to record the activities and situation in my boarding house with that handycam and the cassette at first I was using actually recycled cassette so I didn't buy I got the cassette the mini DV from the recycled wedding shooting and one of my friend he was a journalist in television so the cassette that he already digitize he gave me so I kind of like used that cassette again and then In-Docs somehow I read the announcement that In-Docs opened again scholarship like for masterclass so I applied with this story that actually I'd already recorded before so, I just went deeper with this topic about the body image Nowadays, the topic of body positivity became an agenda yes and your film "Yup, it's my body" is 2009? nine, nine yeah so it was like 11 years ago raising the topic of body positivity, yes so, you were ahead of the time I suppose right? yeah, I suppose this kind of issue like yeah, it's so bad that for a long time still we need to we have still this kind of issue Kiki, it's very nice you lead the conversation into cassette way yes and into so, as I understand like 12 years ago you still could witness the pre-digital era you still could work exactly with films maybe maybe you can tell us a little bit about that Do you see the difference in analog filmmaking and digital filmmaking Actually it's kind of like quite different like because when it was analog of course it cost a lot yeah if we talk about production because you need to buy cassette mini DV and one cassette is approximately like 20 000 IDR like 2 USD probably that time and then one cassette can record like 60 minutes like 1 hour approximately and now you can just have SD Card ...or just memory card, so all digital so, anytime you can just record whatever you want whatever you like and then you just transfer it to Harddisk or your computer and that's it, so and you can reuse it all the time yeah, I mean, you just buy once or twice or just bring a couple, but you can repeat using this card like all the time no need to worry that in urgent situation in such kind of situation that you finish the cassette, right yeah and also the thing is I feel at least myself I feel like wth mini dV cassette it's like we trained to be more discipline I trained more discipline with this because I need to more precisely think about the budget think about the time something like that I even... so, you have limitations, I mean like with analog filmmaking you have some limitations yes, I have some limitations, but there are also kind of like pros and cons, of course, yeah that time I I remember because I do everything by myself I put mark in the in the cassette because always like sticker there during the editing and post-production I sat next to my editor I can remember precisely okay, this footage is in the cassette number this or this and the time code is approximately these kind of minutes, seconds maybe a little bit different yeah but I can remember like this yes, it's easier because we have yeah, I still save my mini DV cassette, so sometimes I try to remember ohh, that time when I shot film I needed to really remember these things yeah, that's about the production and then and then also later about distribution it was of course more expensive that time rather than now, it's much much cheaper because we can do it online yeah Kiki, I know also that you are working as a film crew in different projects sometimes you become director sometimes you become assistant of the director sometimes you become producer and you're working not only with documentaries but with different media maybe you can share with us a little bit about the shooting process the shooting process itself What is the shooting process for you? It's different, every production has has different kind of type I mean let's make it something more general like between documentary and non-documentary, for instance in non-documentary usually we have more crew non-documentary, fiction fiction or it can be advertisement or something like that anything that which is not documentary usually we at least in my situation, in my case I had experience of work with more crew for non-documentary and for documentary I prefer at least so far I prefer to work with smaller crew and usually in documentary I can choose my own crew I prefer to choose my own crew whom I already know like we already know each other the pace, the character and everything because how we communicate we don't always agree with each other but we already understand "the language" so, it's like in documentaries you prefer to have a chamber crew just like a couple yeah, like more intimacy yes yes yes, I understand okay, Kiki and what is because you know in Facebook and everywhere I'm following these groups about filmmaking funny groups, I mean yes and a lot of people are saying that it is very very hard work you know that I also took part in some shootings and I remember It was a very big surprise for me when I came to the shooting location and everything ended like in 24 hours so I had 24 hours shooting day and it was a disaster for me somehow when you're in the shooting process you don't see the time flies you don't see that, you don't feel that somehow it was really amazing for me and somehow I was really into that and I suppose if you're working in that field for already more than 10 years probably it also gets your attention and gets your interest in that maybe you can give advise to young filmmakers What is it to be in the shooting process? Do you like that? What is that? yes, if we talk about non-documentary, for instance there is actually always time we have call sheet, we have schedule like crew call is at this time for instance, 6 a.m. or 5 a.m and then we gather and prepare and evrth and then we start shooting at 7 a.m. or smth like that and we supposedly finish shooting at this time, for instance in non-documentary, it's kind of like actually more precise about the time but in documentary we don't have we don't have this specific time we shoot based on our research actually but of course we got used to it, we know ohh okay, my character usually wakes up at this time, usually this time she goes to school or at this time usually she goes to pray, e t.c but during the shooting it can be different changing sometimes changing totally so, that's how we adjust if there is unexpected moment in the middle of the night or very early in the morning in documentary I feel that my brain always stand-by even while I was sleeping I also feel like my brain is also working, you know yes yes like I need to be aware all the time during the documentary shooting because you are following the subject or the subjects because you are following your story many people think when I meet people, friends or family or just strangers who knew that ohh you're working in film ohh it must be cool you travel a lot it will be like red carpet you met celebrities must be you have nice kind of photos for your social media like behind the camera holding clapper board or something like that yeah it is cute things about this but it's not only about that actually many things happen that because you need to love and have passion in it because it is not I would say it's not easy work, you know and for me it's not just work it's just not profession but it's part of life so, if you don't love it it's even harder probably yes honestly, I don't really know that we have like precise time schedule time working like, for instance, if people who work in office they have specific time like 9 to 5 but in film we don't have this because sometimes we have to catch some moment like we need to shoot sun goes down or sun goes up like sunrise, sunset for instance, yeah , just an example something that explicit that is easy to explain many things like that and I agree with you absolutely that if a person has no passion about that it's very hard because it is hard for people who have passion in that yes, who have passion in filmmaking and maybe you can tell us a little bit about your independent way of post-production you go further to post-production post-production is editing and then an independent filmmaker needs to go to distribution so, what is your way? What is your treatment in these two positions? yeah it is different in every filmmaker they have different goals some of them not really prefer I know some people who don't want to distribute so, they made like They prefer not to screen in the festival, for instance but only for the community some of them only want to screen in the festival, but not online, for instance, if we talk about nowadays but for me if we talk in general I want when I make films I want to show it to people to audience for independent filmmakers usually we don't have producer or we don't have special publicist or distributor we usually distribute our films by ourselves so, that's what I do Thank you How do you usually distribute? What kind of way do you use? I mean like I know there are a lot of platforms nowadays like Filmfreeway or smth else you can apply online maybe you can tell us a little bit about that actually it's very big difference if we talk about the past and now because in the past we need more cost to submit our film because we need to make copy of our film in mini DV or VCD yeah later we had VCD and then DVD we have to send a copy of our film to the festival through courier through post-office or something like that and if the festival is abroad, for instance of course, it cost extra to use the post services, right? yes yes and if they request our film usually they will cover the cost but if we submit our film it means the cost is on us Nowadays, it's already online that you, basically you don't need to pay anything there are a lot of film festivals that you don't need to pay for free, yes the submission is for free submission is for free you just need to upload your film through internet platform it's like maybe Dropbox, Wetransfer, Filmfreeway, Mega many things Filmfreeway, Filmdepot many many platforms nowadays and also because of this digital way also more and more maybe we cannot count like thousands millions film festivals as well that we don't know and it gives more chance for us to try as well to distribute our film which is cheaper and perhaps easier as well How do you think, Kiki, is it easy and is it easy to be an independent filmmaker? How do independent filmmakers usually search for funds? because I know that funding films is not an easy way, yes yeah ahh yeah to make the film that is really your idea really you feel you really want to make this certain project it's not easy because sometimes we apply or submit for some grant, or people, or organisation it's not easy because there are also tons of filmmakers who also apply to the same programme Exactly Sometimes we are not selected I believe that sometimes if we are not selected it doesn't mean that your film is bad or your project is not good sometimes it's about the taste as well Some people also do some business or do another job like and they save some money to to make film that they like I know there are some filmmakers who are farmers I know another filmmakers who are civil servants actually or they have another job or me, like I become I'm a freelancer as crew in any kind of department in film production in Jakarta I mean if you're really passionate about film often sometimes people think ohh you work in film you must have a lot of money it can be yes or no sometimes the goals of working when we have money we try to to pay our rent first, to buy food like the basic things we try to provide ourselves Pyramid of Maslow, yes yeah but what, usually, at least me when I am at work or when I receive call for project or smth what came to my mind usually okay, I will save some money it means if they mention like this is the fee this is the budget so usually I think okay, so this is just enough for my food, for instance or this is just enough for my rent but what comes to my mind always okay, I need to save money for my my next project that's the first thing that comes to my mind to have even just a little bit even just like 50 000 IDR to save for your film, your next project okay, Kiki, so I understood that like a lot of independent artists and independent filmmakers you are just trying to make money from your freelance job but somehow this freelance job turned out to be filmmaking in your case so, you are filmmaker filmmaking crew working for your own independent films yeah so it's like... but that's life, yes and I would like to ask you about your latest projects one of them is documentary film "Calalai" yes, documentary film "Calalai" you can tell us a little bit about that so, my latest project one is documentary the title is "Calalai In-betweenness" it's about the 5th gender in Indonesia in Bugis culture in South Sulawesi island they believe in five genders which is written in La Galigo manuscript that humans consist of five genders male, female, bissu they are like shamans, like the priest and then calabai and calalai and I made about Calalai so, it's like they I mean the Bugis people they have their own system which is beyond like they are very great I think very interesting for me yes it is, yes it is I suppose it is also interesting for nowadays society, because the more like every day the agenda of different roles the society roles, yes and gender we discuss it... yeah, because nowadays also I mean not only now many men actually they become like work at home like taking care of the kid like become the father and they are not working in the office, for instance and the wife who is working in the office which is in some... society it's like strange or not common but for I mean, as long as I learn, thats' why I made this film in Bugis society it's okay or if women work in construction women become engineers, technicians or filmmakers, journalists, police police officers or smth like that or even president it is not smth like... strange for Bugis society I'm not Bugis but so far thats's what I learned about them so, Calalai is smth like that so, if you are biologically woman it's okay for instance, you now become filmmaker which some people consider this as men's world yes, a lot of professions in our world considered to be "men's" yes yes okay, Kiki and I also want to ask you about your latest project the film "Roti" that means 'bread" in English if I'm not mistaken, it is a microfilm, right? yes, the duration is only 30 seconds it's a fiction, but based on a true story oh, but if it's based on a true story, don't tell us the story because it's only 30 secods so, don't spoil anything, yeah no spoilers yeah but it will be screened online actually already screened in film festival Feminist Film Festival in Berlin and during this Corona time they will screen again the selected films online okay, so maybe we can also give any link or information below the video okay, Kiki, I think I will try to finish our conversation even though it's very interesting and very useful to get all these stories from you What do you... Are you in the process of smth during these Coronavirus times? or smth like this quarantine? Do you have any plans any future projects? so, yeah, during this Corona time which is we're already in quarantine all of us perhaps, most of us in quarantine I'm working on video project which is I'm doing it in documentary way in the treatment but the result will be like video art like experimental so, you like this moving images language, yes I actually love it so much as well yeah, I mean video, audio-visual I like I like audio-visual, I like video so much besides as maker I also enjoy it as audience I love to spend my time watching short short videos or films or I spend time in.. before the Corona time I liked to spend time just go to the cinema yes, yes I can clearly understand you so, that's the language that you like to consume and that you like to produce, right? yeah yeah okay, Kiki, thank you so much for having this conversation with me I'm really glad about that I hope we can meet again and discuss maybe some other topics and maybe we can discuss your next project when you're already done when this Coronavirus is done, yes hopefully hopefully, yeah Thank you so much for having me Thank you so much, Kiki, for sharing everything Sampai jumpa! ( See you!) until we meet again Bye bye! and now I need to end the meeting, yes you see this Coronavirus gives us different challenges awkwardness hahaha awkwardness it's okay, still recording I know because we've already said goodbye to each other but I need to find alright, okay the button of Ending the meeting I think I'm done thank you so much, bye bye thank you thank you Bye bye!