1 00:00:34,155 --> 00:00:37,095 Hi, everybody! This is my small talk show 2 00:00:37,095 --> 00:00:40,045 about people who inspire me 3 00:00:40,045 --> 00:00:42,975 and people who motivate me to do smth 4 00:00:43,125 --> 00:00:46,085 So, today's guest is 5 00:00:46,085 --> 00:00:47,825 Kiki Febriyanti 6 00:00:48,765 --> 00:00:52,045 an independent filmmaker from Indonesia 7 00:00:52,185 --> 00:00:54,555 Hi, Kiki! How are you? 8 00:00:55,125 --> 00:00:56,805 Hi, I'm okay, how are you? 9 00:00:56,805 --> 00:00:57,935 I'm also okay 10 00:00:57,935 --> 00:00:59,895 I'm fine, thank you so much! 11 00:00:59,895 --> 00:01:02,475 Thank you so much for joining me today 12 00:01:02,685 --> 00:01:05,905 I suppose it's very important we have this conversation 13 00:01:05,905 --> 00:01:08,155 because I really want audience 14 00:01:08,155 --> 00:01:10,815 to know your way and your path 15 00:01:11,135 --> 00:01:14,015 and I also would like to ask you 16 00:01:14,015 --> 00:01:17,135 what it is to be an independent filmmaker 17 00:01:17,135 --> 00:01:20,535 today in this era, in this period 18 00:01:20,545 --> 00:01:23,075 but let's start from the beginning 19 00:01:23,075 --> 00:01:26,055 maybe you can tell us a little bit 20 00:01:26,055 --> 00:01:28,955 what urged your interest in filmmaking? 21 00:01:28,955 --> 00:01:30,345 How did you start? 22 00:01:31,375 --> 00:01:33,245 Well, it's long story 23 00:01:33,665 --> 00:01:36,725 haha but let's make it short 24 00:01:36,725 --> 00:01:39,745 because I have to be back to my childhood 25 00:01:40,345 --> 00:01:43,005 so, at the beginning 26 00:01:43,705 --> 00:01:46,445 at first actually I was inspired by 27 00:01:46,445 --> 00:01:49,835 best friend of my grandparents 28 00:01:50,000 --> 00:01:53,640 and he was a photojournalist 29 00:01:55,400 --> 00:01:57,995 so he often showed me his works 30 00:01:57,995 --> 00:02:00,525 and then I was thinking okay 31 00:02:00,525 --> 00:02:03,500 I will become photojournalist too 32 00:02:03,500 --> 00:02:05,740 just like him 33 00:02:06,900 --> 00:02:10,140 also my family loved watching movies 34 00:02:10,215 --> 00:02:13,095 and my parents 35 00:02:13,095 --> 00:02:15,925 my grandma my parents 36 00:02:15,925 --> 00:02:17,905 they often took me to 37 00:02:18,305 --> 00:02:20,745 to watch movies in cinema 38 00:02:21,305 --> 00:02:23,645 just nearby my house 39 00:02:23,645 --> 00:02:27,145 we just took a walk 5 minutes and it's already there 40 00:02:27,955 --> 00:02:28,955 and then 41 00:02:29,405 --> 00:02:31,255 I think 42 00:02:31,605 --> 00:02:34,325 the guy who worked there as cleaner 43 00:02:34,325 --> 00:02:37,135 already got used to 44 00:02:37,135 --> 00:02:40,415 got used to me 45 00:02:40,565 --> 00:02:43,795 like in the cinema, so 46 00:02:43,795 --> 00:02:46,875 usually before the cinema opens 47 00:02:47,175 --> 00:02:49,555 he invited me 48 00:02:49,555 --> 00:02:51,375 to just play inside 49 00:02:53,665 --> 00:02:56,765 just to take a look at the posters 50 00:02:56,765 --> 00:02:58,765 of the movies 51 00:02:58,765 --> 00:03:00,135 and just sit 52 00:03:00,135 --> 00:03:03,255 inside of the cinema before 53 00:03:03,935 --> 00:03:05,145 there are 54 00:03:05,765 --> 00:03:08,795 another audience 55 00:03:08,795 --> 00:03:11,605 so that's how I was interested in film 56 00:03:12,120 --> 00:03:14,835 so, it was from your very childhood 57 00:03:14,840 --> 00:03:17,920 when you were just a kid 58 00:03:18,200 --> 00:03:21,240 and then in 2008 there was 59 00:03:21,245 --> 00:03:23,665 when I was in university there was 60 00:03:23,665 --> 00:03:26,765 documentary filmmaking workshop In-Docs 61 00:03:29,675 --> 00:03:32,095 it came to my university in Jember 62 00:03:32,095 --> 00:03:35,135 East Java. East Java? yeah 63 00:03:35,135 --> 00:03:36,225 and then 64 00:03:36,705 --> 00:03:39,735 I tried to join this event 65 00:03:39,735 --> 00:03:41,975 and then I was selected 66 00:03:41,975 --> 00:03:44,705 my story was selected to 67 00:03:44,705 --> 00:03:47,765 to receive scholarship to be produced 68 00:03:47,765 --> 00:03:48,765 and then 69 00:03:48,965 --> 00:03:51,495 that's how I started filmmaking 70 00:03:51,495 --> 00:03:53,235 so, in 2008 71 00:03:53,240 --> 00:03:56,140 I made my first documentary film 72 00:03:56,400 --> 00:03:58,800 so, it was like 12 years ago 73 00:03:59,140 --> 00:04:01,540 yeah, yes 12 years ago 74 00:04:01,720 --> 00:04:04,240 What was your first film? What was it about? 75 00:04:07,115 --> 00:04:10,135 It was about two persons 76 00:04:12,675 --> 00:04:13,595 who 77 00:04:15,275 --> 00:04:18,215 they were labelized 78 00:04:18,215 --> 00:04:21,085 as they have 79 00:04:21,085 --> 00:04:22,565 mental illness 80 00:04:23,155 --> 00:04:24,815 and 81 00:04:24,815 --> 00:04:27,855 I made the story about them about their feelings 82 00:04:27,855 --> 00:04:28,855 about their life 83 00:04:32,205 --> 00:04:34,795 How they struggle to 84 00:04:34,795 --> 00:04:37,585 to be accepted in society 85 00:04:37,585 --> 00:04:40,725 in their family 86 00:04:40,725 --> 00:04:43,405 and their environment 87 00:04:43,555 --> 00:04:45,385 so, it was about 88 00:04:45,720 --> 00:04:48,220 mental illness and 89 00:04:48,420 --> 00:04:50,700 it was about the place 90 00:04:50,720 --> 00:04:52,860 about the asylum, yes, because 91 00:04:52,860 --> 00:04:56,160 I've watched your film I know a little bit the plot 92 00:04:56,200 --> 00:04:58,840 yes, at the beginning it opened 93 00:04:59,140 --> 00:05:02,540 the founder told me it was just 94 00:05:04,025 --> 00:05:06,395 the place for learning Koran 95 00:05:06,395 --> 00:05:09,285 like reading Koran, but then 96 00:05:09,905 --> 00:05:12,945 many people came just 97 00:05:13,515 --> 00:05:16,505 to shelter these people 98 00:05:17,595 --> 00:05:20,435 so it became this kind of place 99 00:05:21,565 --> 00:05:24,415 like shelter for people 100 00:05:24,415 --> 00:05:25,665 with mental problems 101 00:05:27,375 --> 00:05:29,235 okay so yeah 102 00:05:29,755 --> 00:05:32,345 How did you find this story? How did you find 103 00:05:32,345 --> 00:05:34,725 these people? How did you find your subjects? 104 00:05:36,875 --> 00:05:37,875 actually 105 00:05:39,025 --> 00:05:40,695 I already 106 00:05:41,885 --> 00:05:43,835 was kind of like friends 107 00:05:44,185 --> 00:05:46,905 with the founder 108 00:05:46,905 --> 00:05:49,075 of Islamic boarding house 109 00:05:49,075 --> 00:05:52,115 The Al Ghafur boarding house 110 00:05:52,155 --> 00:05:54,975 because my mom 111 00:05:54,975 --> 00:05:56,975 was working as teacher 112 00:05:57,185 --> 00:05:59,585 in the elementary school 113 00:05:59,585 --> 00:06:01,885 near the boarding house 114 00:06:01,885 --> 00:06:04,655 that's how I knew him 115 00:06:04,655 --> 00:06:07,515 and I often curious 116 00:06:08,035 --> 00:06:11,075 because these people 117 00:06:11,075 --> 00:06:13,465 these people who stay there 118 00:06:13,465 --> 00:06:15,355 people with mental illness 119 00:06:15,815 --> 00:06:18,945 what people said 120 00:06:18,945 --> 00:06:20,205 just freely walked 121 00:06:20,565 --> 00:06:21,995 freely 122 00:06:22,555 --> 00:06:24,645 communicated with people 123 00:06:24,985 --> 00:06:26,345 in neighbourhood 124 00:06:27,445 --> 00:06:30,215 so they are not like in asylum 125 00:06:30,215 --> 00:06:33,535 like we think 126 00:06:34,725 --> 00:06:37,505 inside of the room they cannot go outside 127 00:06:37,505 --> 00:06:40,205 on the contrary, they are 128 00:06:40,495 --> 00:06:42,865 they make interaction 129 00:06:42,865 --> 00:06:45,235 make interaction with locals there 130 00:06:45,315 --> 00:06:47,395 that's what interesting 131 00:06:47,795 --> 00:06:48,795 for me yeah 132 00:06:50,125 --> 00:06:53,235 but I mean that this topic is 133 00:06:53,235 --> 00:06:56,695 quite specific yes and it's 134 00:06:56,865 --> 00:06:57,775 huuuh yeah 135 00:06:57,775 --> 00:06:59,375 like at the beginning 136 00:06:59,375 --> 00:07:02,295 usually we think they are dangerous 137 00:07:02,565 --> 00:07:03,475 they are 138 00:07:03,475 --> 00:07:06,885 we need to avoid them or smth like that 139 00:07:06,885 --> 00:07:08,285 but what I 140 00:07:09,155 --> 00:07:12,545 always learned from my childhood like 141 00:07:13,575 --> 00:07:16,425 they're just like us, they're just 142 00:07:16,425 --> 00:07:18,095 no difference with me 143 00:07:19,055 --> 00:07:21,475 they can communicate with people, 144 00:07:21,475 --> 00:07:23,965 they can socialize 145 00:07:23,965 --> 00:07:27,005 they can work and I'm thinking 146 00:07:30,465 --> 00:07:32,155 How is their life 147 00:07:33,035 --> 00:07:34,565 actually? 148 00:07:35,800 --> 00:07:38,020 facing the situation 149 00:07:38,020 --> 00:07:40,740 facing the society, facing their family 150 00:07:41,325 --> 00:07:44,345 it's interesting for me, it's just like 151 00:07:44,345 --> 00:07:47,255 how I see myself through 152 00:07:47,255 --> 00:07:50,045 through these people, through my subjects 153 00:07:50,045 --> 00:07:52,415 that's how and that's why 154 00:07:52,415 --> 00:07:53,915 I made this film 155 00:07:55,055 --> 00:07:57,985 How did your subjects react 156 00:07:57,985 --> 00:08:00,685 when they saw the camera? 157 00:08:00,685 --> 00:08:03,635 yeah actually it's funny thing 158 00:08:03,635 --> 00:08:07,005 yeah how the subject react to the camera 159 00:08:07,005 --> 00:08:09,155 in my case 160 00:08:10,015 --> 00:08:12,145 in that first film like 161 00:08:12,145 --> 00:08:14,540 the subject was 162 00:08:14,540 --> 00:08:17,595 I tried to make them like to get used to it 163 00:08:17,595 --> 00:08:18,635 with the camera 164 00:08:18,640 --> 00:08:20,680 so during the research I also brought 165 00:08:21,240 --> 00:08:23,545 I brought camera 166 00:08:23,545 --> 00:08:26,545 so they kind of got used to it 167 00:08:26,545 --> 00:08:29,475 and they were like okay with this 168 00:08:29,475 --> 00:08:30,475 like on the contrary 169 00:08:30,865 --> 00:08:32,325 one of the crew 170 00:08:32,785 --> 00:08:34,985 that I brought to the location 171 00:08:36,065 --> 00:08:37,605 who 172 00:08:38,140 --> 00:08:41,820 supposedly was asked to record this 173 00:08:42,100 --> 00:08:43,760 because I was directing 174 00:08:43,760 --> 00:08:46,915 so I tried to communicate with the subject 175 00:08:46,915 --> 00:08:50,025 and he needed to record 176 00:08:50,025 --> 00:08:53,295 he cannot, he's like nervous 177 00:08:53,300 --> 00:08:55,460 so somehow 178 00:08:55,460 --> 00:08:57,740 what unexpected 179 00:08:57,760 --> 00:09:02,200 reaction was not from the subject 180 00:09:02,200 --> 00:09:04,255 but from one of the crew 181 00:09:04,260 --> 00:09:05,740 yeah 182 00:09:05,740 --> 00:09:07,560 well actually this question 183 00:09:07,560 --> 00:09:09,960 always makes me wonder 184 00:09:09,980 --> 00:09:11,595 How do subjects 185 00:09:11,595 --> 00:09:13,685 any subjects react to the camera, yes? 186 00:09:13,685 --> 00:09:16,425 If we're talking about documentary filmmaking 187 00:09:16,600 --> 00:09:20,640 that's why I'm always interested in that 188 00:09:21,440 --> 00:09:24,375 I'm really happy you made this film 189 00:09:24,375 --> 00:09:26,655 and it is open if I'm not mistaken? 190 00:09:26,655 --> 00:09:29,895 so, the audience can watch 191 00:09:29,900 --> 00:09:32,000 yes, it's in the website called 192 00:09:33,415 --> 00:09:36,600 cultureunplugged,com 193 00:09:38,380 --> 00:09:39,740 so we can put it below 194 00:09:39,740 --> 00:09:40,560 sure 195 00:09:41,215 --> 00:09:44,255 and if I'm not mistaken you were selected 196 00:09:44,260 --> 00:09:46,500 with this film at 197 00:09:46,500 --> 00:09:48,680 different film festivals 198 00:09:49,200 --> 00:09:51,180 and you also attended 199 00:09:51,220 --> 00:09:53,100 STEPS International 200 00:09:53,105 --> 00:09:56,145 Film Festival of Human Rights 201 00:09:56,145 --> 00:09:59,025 In Ukraine, in Kharkiv. in Ukraine, yes 202 00:09:59,025 --> 00:10:01,200 in 2013, right? 203 00:10:01,600 --> 00:10:03,700 2014, if I'm not mistaken 204 00:10:03,700 --> 00:10:05,680 it was long time ago 205 00:10:05,820 --> 00:10:08,900 no no no, it was in 2013, Ki 206 00:10:08,900 --> 00:10:10,595 ahhhh okay 207 00:10:10,595 --> 00:10:13,675 right? it was in 2013 208 00:10:13,675 --> 00:10:15,035 yes yes 209 00:10:16,485 --> 00:10:19,075 You received the award 210 00:10:19,320 --> 00:10:21,700 within that festival 211 00:10:21,820 --> 00:10:24,460 you received an award for being 212 00:10:24,500 --> 00:10:26,940 the best documentary filmmaker 213 00:10:27,140 --> 00:10:29,920 and it was exactly with the film 214 00:10:29,920 --> 00:10:33,740 Jangan bilang aku gila / Don't call me crazy 215 00:10:33,740 --> 00:10:34,520 yeah 216 00:10:35,180 --> 00:10:37,900 Maybe you can tell us a little bit about your experience 217 00:10:38,180 --> 00:10:40,500 My first festival was in India 218 00:10:40,500 --> 00:10:42,920 it was selected in India 219 00:10:42,980 --> 00:10:45,400 for me to screen 220 00:10:46,120 --> 00:10:49,025 my film for the audience 221 00:10:49,025 --> 00:10:52,080 to wider audience it's already 222 00:10:54,215 --> 00:10:56,525 kind of like happiness yeah 223 00:10:56,875 --> 00:10:58,335 cause it is my goal 224 00:10:59,365 --> 00:11:01,235 to give awareness to 225 00:11:01,840 --> 00:11:05,840 people about this situation 226 00:11:05,840 --> 00:11:09,140 about my subject 227 00:11:09,140 --> 00:11:11,240 about the condition yeah 228 00:11:11,755 --> 00:11:14,775 and then when they 229 00:11:15,645 --> 00:11:18,655 I mean the festival gave me this award 230 00:11:18,655 --> 00:11:20,445 it's like a bonus 231 00:11:20,935 --> 00:11:23,615 because for me it's already happiness 232 00:11:23,615 --> 00:11:26,655 that people know the condition there 233 00:11:27,245 --> 00:11:28,775 in my hometown 234 00:11:29,265 --> 00:11:32,475 with these people 235 00:11:32,660 --> 00:11:35,140 so, yeah it's like a bonus 236 00:11:35,140 --> 00:11:37,460 it's like an extra happiness 237 00:11:37,945 --> 00:11:39,205 plus 238 00:11:39,720 --> 00:11:43,320 The Ambassador of Indonesia to Ukraine 239 00:11:43,320 --> 00:11:45,700 also attended Festival 240 00:11:46,155 --> 00:11:48,765 and she and the stuff 241 00:11:48,765 --> 00:11:51,080 also were very supportive 242 00:11:51,080 --> 00:11:54,455 so yeah, I was very happy with that 243 00:11:54,460 --> 00:11:57,440 you were happy to share with the audience, right 244 00:11:57,440 --> 00:11:59,815 to share the story 245 00:11:59,820 --> 00:12:02,625 yes, I can understand you so well 246 00:12:02,625 --> 00:12:05,460 Can I ask you about your second film? 247 00:12:05,460 --> 00:12:07,640 which was also independent and it was 248 00:12:07,640 --> 00:12:09,560 "Yup, it's my body" 249 00:12:09,560 --> 00:12:11,420 yes yeah 250 00:12:11,420 --> 00:12:14,580 How did you choose the topic and the subject? 251 00:12:14,580 --> 00:12:17,380 maybe you can tell us a little bit about that film 252 00:12:17,940 --> 00:12:20,740 So, actually this 253 00:12:20,740 --> 00:12:23,880 the second film "Yup, it's my body" 254 00:12:23,880 --> 00:12:26,760 I made that it's like 255 00:12:26,760 --> 00:12:28,540 a diary 256 00:12:28,540 --> 00:12:30,580 because I was about 257 00:12:30,580 --> 00:12:32,980 to graduate from 258 00:12:32,980 --> 00:12:34,500 my university soon 259 00:12:34,820 --> 00:12:38,000 and all those years I stayed 260 00:12:38,000 --> 00:12:40,355 with them with my subjects 261 00:12:40,360 --> 00:12:43,265 which were also my roommates 262 00:12:43,265 --> 00:12:45,240 my flatmates in boarding house 263 00:12:47,480 --> 00:12:50,445 and I noticed like some habit 264 00:12:50,445 --> 00:12:51,640 of us 265 00:12:51,640 --> 00:12:53,920 of all of us...like 266 00:12:53,920 --> 00:12:57,460 we always discussed about the body image 267 00:12:57,460 --> 00:13:00,340 I try to diet with this way I try to diet this way 268 00:13:00,340 --> 00:13:02,620 and It's like I asked them 269 00:13:02,620 --> 00:13:05,535 Why do you do this? What for? 270 00:13:05,535 --> 00:13:08,515 In my boarding house that time 271 00:13:08,515 --> 00:13:10,985 most of them tried to lose weight 272 00:13:11,580 --> 00:13:15,860 especially one of the closest friend 273 00:13:17,060 --> 00:13:18,900 her name is Sara 274 00:13:21,060 --> 00:13:24,360 she more often to share with me 275 00:13:24,360 --> 00:13:26,760 about her life her way something like that 276 00:13:26,760 --> 00:13:30,140 cause we're like family in that boarding house 277 00:13:30,140 --> 00:13:32,820 so I tried to document that 278 00:13:35,080 --> 00:13:39,100 as kind of like memorabilia 279 00:13:39,500 --> 00:13:41,975 so I recorded 280 00:13:41,975 --> 00:13:43,835 I started recording with 281 00:13:44,720 --> 00:13:47,060 Mini DV 282 00:13:47,060 --> 00:13:49,540 so I used that to record 283 00:13:49,540 --> 00:13:51,900 at the beginning I used to record 284 00:13:51,900 --> 00:13:54,520 the activities and situation in my boarding house 285 00:13:54,520 --> 00:13:55,980 with that handycam 286 00:13:56,480 --> 00:13:58,040 and the cassette 287 00:13:58,040 --> 00:13:59,960 at first I was using 288 00:13:59,960 --> 00:14:01,820 actually recycled 289 00:14:01,820 --> 00:14:03,500 cassette 290 00:14:03,980 --> 00:14:05,740 so I didn't buy 291 00:14:05,745 --> 00:14:08,535 I got the cassette the mini DV 292 00:14:08,535 --> 00:14:11,715 from the recycled wedding shooting 293 00:14:11,720 --> 00:14:14,280 and one of my friend 294 00:14:15,700 --> 00:14:19,120 he was a journalist in television 295 00:14:19,120 --> 00:14:23,560 so the cassette that he already digitize 296 00:14:23,560 --> 00:14:25,560 he gave me 297 00:14:25,560 --> 00:14:27,520 so I kind of like 298 00:14:27,520 --> 00:14:30,300 used that cassette again 299 00:14:31,060 --> 00:14:34,200 and then In-Docs somehow 300 00:14:35,160 --> 00:14:37,620 I read the announcement that 301 00:14:37,620 --> 00:14:39,920 In-Docs opened again scholarship 302 00:14:40,380 --> 00:14:42,600 like for masterclass 303 00:14:42,605 --> 00:14:45,305 so I applied with this story 304 00:14:45,305 --> 00:14:48,140 that actually I'd already recorded before 305 00:14:48,920 --> 00:14:51,880 so, I just went deeper with this topic 306 00:14:52,375 --> 00:14:55,205 about the body image 307 00:14:55,205 --> 00:14:58,655 Nowadays, the topic of body positivity 308 00:14:58,655 --> 00:15:01,325 became an agenda yes 309 00:15:01,325 --> 00:15:04,620 and your film "Yup, it's my body" is 2009? 310 00:15:04,620 --> 00:15:07,160 nine, nine yeah 311 00:15:07,165 --> 00:15:10,600 so it was like 11 years ago 312 00:15:10,760 --> 00:15:13,085 raising the topic of 313 00:15:13,085 --> 00:15:15,280 body positivity, yes 314 00:15:15,280 --> 00:15:17,980 so, you were ahead of the time I suppose 315 00:15:18,505 --> 00:15:19,505 right? 316 00:15:20,240 --> 00:15:24,240 yeah, I suppose this kind of issue like 317 00:15:25,240 --> 00:15:28,265 yeah, it's so bad that for a long time 318 00:15:28,265 --> 00:15:30,075 still we need to 319 00:15:30,075 --> 00:15:32,795 we have still this kind of issue 320 00:15:34,305 --> 00:15:37,035 Kiki, it's very nice 321 00:15:37,040 --> 00:15:41,160 you lead the conversation into cassette way 322 00:15:41,160 --> 00:15:42,520 yes and into 323 00:15:42,905 --> 00:15:45,825 so, as I understand 324 00:15:45,825 --> 00:15:49,160 like 12 years ago you still could witness 325 00:15:49,160 --> 00:15:51,120 the pre-digital era 326 00:15:51,120 --> 00:15:54,380 you still could work exactly with films maybe 327 00:15:54,380 --> 00:15:56,920 maybe you can tell us a little bit about that 328 00:15:57,525 --> 00:16:00,615 Do you see the difference in 329 00:16:00,615 --> 00:16:03,775 analog filmmaking and digital filmmaking 330 00:16:05,240 --> 00:16:07,700 Actually it's kind of like 331 00:16:07,700 --> 00:16:09,640 quite different like 332 00:16:11,120 --> 00:16:14,535 because when it was analog 333 00:16:14,540 --> 00:16:16,700 of course it cost a lot yeah 334 00:16:16,700 --> 00:16:18,680 if we talk about production 335 00:16:18,680 --> 00:16:21,580 because you need to buy cassette mini DV 336 00:16:21,580 --> 00:16:22,920 and one cassette is 337 00:16:24,760 --> 00:16:27,680 approximately like 20 000 IDR 338 00:16:27,680 --> 00:16:31,040 like 2 USD probably that time 339 00:16:31,040 --> 00:16:32,915 and then one cassette 340 00:16:32,915 --> 00:16:35,605 can record like 60 minutes 341 00:16:35,605 --> 00:16:38,880 like 1 hour approximately 342 00:16:38,880 --> 00:16:42,200 and now you can just have 343 00:16:42,205 --> 00:16:44,535 SD Card ...or 344 00:16:46,405 --> 00:16:49,525 just memory card, so all digital 345 00:16:49,525 --> 00:16:53,140 so, anytime you can just record whatever you want 346 00:16:53,140 --> 00:16:54,755 whatever you like 347 00:16:54,755 --> 00:16:56,635 and then you just transfer it to 348 00:16:57,005 --> 00:17:00,155 Harddisk or your computer 349 00:17:00,160 --> 00:17:02,340 and that's it, so 350 00:17:02,340 --> 00:17:05,880 and you can reuse it all the time 351 00:17:05,880 --> 00:17:09,060 yeah, I mean, you just buy 352 00:17:09,340 --> 00:17:11,280 once or twice 353 00:17:11,280 --> 00:17:14,575 or just bring a couple, but you can repeat 354 00:17:14,580 --> 00:17:17,320 using this card like all the time 355 00:17:17,320 --> 00:17:19,080 no need to worry that 356 00:17:19,820 --> 00:17:21,680 in urgent situation 357 00:17:21,680 --> 00:17:23,640 in such kind of situation 358 00:17:23,640 --> 00:17:25,440 that you finish the cassette, right 359 00:17:26,480 --> 00:17:29,340 yeah and also 360 00:17:31,380 --> 00:17:33,320 the thing is 361 00:17:33,880 --> 00:17:36,013 I feel at least myself 362 00:17:36,020 --> 00:17:37,240 I feel like 363 00:17:37,460 --> 00:17:40,500 wth mini dV cassette 364 00:17:40,500 --> 00:17:42,300 it's like 365 00:17:45,480 --> 00:17:48,840 we trained to be more discipline 366 00:17:49,005 --> 00:17:51,155 I trained more discipline 367 00:17:51,160 --> 00:17:53,540 with this because I need to 368 00:17:53,540 --> 00:17:56,860 more precisely think about the budget 369 00:17:56,860 --> 00:17:58,780 think about the time 370 00:18:00,700 --> 00:18:02,540 something like that 371 00:18:02,545 --> 00:18:03,545 I even... 372 00:18:03,875 --> 00:18:06,955 so, you have limitations, I mean like 373 00:18:06,960 --> 00:18:10,300 with analog filmmaking you have some limitations 374 00:18:10,300 --> 00:18:12,460 yes, I have some limitations, but 375 00:18:12,460 --> 00:18:14,920 there are also kind of 376 00:18:14,920 --> 00:18:17,980 like pros and cons, of course, yeah 377 00:18:18,380 --> 00:18:19,660 that time I 378 00:18:20,140 --> 00:18:23,075 I remember because I do everything by myself 379 00:18:23,080 --> 00:18:25,620 I put mark in the 380 00:18:25,620 --> 00:18:29,620 in the cassette because always like sticker there 381 00:18:31,160 --> 00:18:34,375 during the editing and post-production 382 00:18:34,375 --> 00:18:36,685 I sat next to my 383 00:18:37,855 --> 00:18:38,935 editor 384 00:18:39,245 --> 00:18:42,045 I can remember precisely 385 00:18:42,045 --> 00:18:44,695 okay, this footage is 386 00:18:44,695 --> 00:18:47,435 in the cassette number this or this 387 00:18:47,435 --> 00:18:50,215 and the time code is approximately 388 00:18:50,215 --> 00:18:52,885 these kind of minutes, seconds 389 00:18:52,885 --> 00:18:56,095 maybe a little bit different yeah 390 00:18:56,625 --> 00:18:58,855 but I can remember like this 391 00:19:00,065 --> 00:19:02,935 yes, it's easier because we have 392 00:19:02,940 --> 00:19:06,440 yeah, I still save my mini DV cassette, so 393 00:19:08,220 --> 00:19:11,100 sometimes I try to remember 394 00:19:11,240 --> 00:19:15,000 ohh, that time when I shot film I needed to 395 00:19:15,000 --> 00:19:17,980 really remember these things 396 00:19:19,840 --> 00:19:23,360 yeah, that's about the production and then 397 00:19:23,580 --> 00:19:26,260 and then also later about distribution 398 00:19:26,265 --> 00:19:27,465 it was 399 00:19:27,860 --> 00:19:30,280 of course more expensive that time 400 00:19:30,280 --> 00:19:33,520 rather than now, it's much much cheaper 401 00:19:33,520 --> 00:19:36,800 because we can do it online yeah 402 00:19:36,840 --> 00:19:38,980 Kiki, I know also 403 00:19:38,980 --> 00:19:41,280 that you are working as a film crew 404 00:19:41,280 --> 00:19:42,455 in different projects 405 00:19:42,460 --> 00:19:44,520 sometimes you become director 406 00:19:44,520 --> 00:19:47,420 sometimes you become assistant of the director 407 00:19:48,215 --> 00:19:50,485 sometimes you become producer 408 00:19:50,485 --> 00:19:52,700 and you're working not only with documentaries 409 00:19:52,700 --> 00:19:54,800 but with different media 410 00:19:54,800 --> 00:19:56,800 maybe you can share with us 411 00:19:56,800 --> 00:19:59,500 a little bit about the shooting process 412 00:19:59,500 --> 00:20:01,100 the shooting process itself 413 00:20:01,100 --> 00:20:02,860 What is the shooting process for you? 414 00:20:07,285 --> 00:20:10,195 It's different, every production has 415 00:20:11,240 --> 00:20:14,000 has different kind of type 416 00:20:14,000 --> 00:20:16,460 I mean let's make it 417 00:20:18,700 --> 00:20:21,660 something more general like between 418 00:20:21,660 --> 00:20:24,680 documentary and non-documentary, for instance 419 00:20:25,800 --> 00:20:28,320 in non-documentary usually 420 00:20:28,320 --> 00:20:30,320 we have more crew 421 00:20:32,580 --> 00:20:34,500 non-documentary, fiction 422 00:20:34,500 --> 00:20:36,495 fiction or it can be 423 00:20:36,500 --> 00:20:38,940 advertisement or something like that 424 00:20:39,100 --> 00:20:40,900 anything that 425 00:20:42,760 --> 00:20:45,360 which is not documentary 426 00:20:45,360 --> 00:20:47,160 usually we 427 00:20:47,660 --> 00:20:49,860 at least in my situation, 428 00:20:49,860 --> 00:20:50,940 in my case 429 00:20:51,580 --> 00:20:52,860 I had 430 00:20:54,795 --> 00:20:57,835 experience of work with more crew 431 00:20:57,840 --> 00:21:00,400 for non-documentary 432 00:21:00,400 --> 00:21:02,300 and for documentary I prefer 433 00:21:02,860 --> 00:21:04,560 at least so far 434 00:21:04,560 --> 00:21:05,895 I prefer to work 435 00:21:05,900 --> 00:21:08,720 with smaller crew 436 00:21:09,140 --> 00:21:12,315 and usually in documentary 437 00:21:12,315 --> 00:21:14,575 I can choose my own crew 438 00:21:14,575 --> 00:21:16,395 I prefer to choose my own crew 439 00:21:17,260 --> 00:21:19,840 whom I already know 440 00:21:19,840 --> 00:21:22,335 like we already know each other 441 00:21:22,340 --> 00:21:25,020 the pace, the character and everything 442 00:21:25,020 --> 00:21:27,440 because how we communicate 443 00:21:27,440 --> 00:21:30,160 we don't always agree with each other 444 00:21:30,160 --> 00:21:31,680 but we already understand 445 00:21:32,075 --> 00:21:33,855 "the language" 446 00:21:34,265 --> 00:21:37,405 so, it's like in documentaries you prefer 447 00:21:37,405 --> 00:21:39,775 to have a chamber crew 448 00:21:39,775 --> 00:21:40,975 just like a couple 449 00:21:40,975 --> 00:21:42,525 yeah, like more intimacy 450 00:21:42,525 --> 00:21:45,645 yes yes yes, I understand 451 00:21:45,645 --> 00:21:48,320 okay, Kiki and what is 452 00:21:48,320 --> 00:21:50,855 because you know in Facebook and everywhere 453 00:21:50,855 --> 00:21:53,225 I'm following these groups 454 00:21:53,225 --> 00:21:55,465 about filmmaking 455 00:21:55,925 --> 00:21:58,995 funny groups, I mean yes 456 00:21:58,995 --> 00:22:02,055 and a lot of people are saying that it is 457 00:22:02,165 --> 00:22:04,845 very very hard work 458 00:22:04,845 --> 00:22:07,835 you know that I also 459 00:22:07,835 --> 00:22:10,765 took part in some shootings 460 00:22:10,765 --> 00:22:11,765 and 461 00:22:11,845 --> 00:22:13,555 I remember 462 00:22:13,560 --> 00:22:16,320 It was a very big surprise for me 463 00:22:16,320 --> 00:22:18,280 when I came to the shooting location 464 00:22:18,835 --> 00:22:19,895 and 465 00:22:21,260 --> 00:22:25,060 everything ended like in 24 hours 466 00:22:25,060 --> 00:22:26,700 so I had 467 00:22:26,700 --> 00:22:29,120 24 hours shooting day 468 00:22:30,005 --> 00:22:32,915 and it was a disaster for me 469 00:22:32,915 --> 00:22:36,015 somehow when you're in the shooting process 470 00:22:36,020 --> 00:22:38,400 you don't see the time flies 471 00:22:38,400 --> 00:22:40,580 you don't see that, you don't feel that 472 00:22:40,580 --> 00:22:43,500 somehow it was really amazing for me 473 00:22:43,505 --> 00:22:46,485 and somehow I was really into that 474 00:22:46,485 --> 00:22:49,835 and I suppose if you're working in that field 475 00:22:49,835 --> 00:22:52,625 for already more than 10 years 476 00:22:52,625 --> 00:22:55,645 probably it also gets your attention 477 00:22:55,645 --> 00:22:58,700 and gets your interest in that 478 00:22:59,260 --> 00:23:03,015 maybe you can give advise to young filmmakers 479 00:23:03,015 --> 00:23:05,565 What is it to be in the shooting process? 480 00:23:05,815 --> 00:23:08,305 Do you like that? What is that? 481 00:23:09,840 --> 00:23:12,040 yes, if we talk about 482 00:23:12,040 --> 00:23:14,440 non-documentary, for instance 483 00:23:15,020 --> 00:23:18,075 there is actually always time 484 00:23:18,080 --> 00:23:21,375 we have call sheet, we have schedule 485 00:23:22,300 --> 00:23:24,860 like crew call is at this time 486 00:23:24,860 --> 00:23:26,960 for instance, 6 a.m. or 5 a.m 487 00:23:26,960 --> 00:23:30,700 and then we gather and prepare and evrth 488 00:23:30,700 --> 00:23:32,540 and then 489 00:23:32,540 --> 00:23:35,960 we start shooting at 7 a.m. or smth like that 490 00:23:35,960 --> 00:23:38,080 and we supposedly 491 00:23:38,080 --> 00:23:41,060 finish shooting at this time, for instance 492 00:23:41,400 --> 00:23:44,320 in non-documentary, it's 493 00:23:44,325 --> 00:23:46,805 kind of like actually 494 00:23:46,805 --> 00:23:49,375 more precise about the time 495 00:23:49,375 --> 00:23:51,855 but in documentary we don't have 496 00:23:51,855 --> 00:23:55,025 we don't have this specific time 497 00:23:55,025 --> 00:23:58,700 we shoot based on our research actually 498 00:23:58,700 --> 00:24:00,180 but of course 499 00:24:03,680 --> 00:24:06,320 we got used to it, we know 500 00:24:06,320 --> 00:24:08,900 ohh okay, my character usually 501 00:24:09,300 --> 00:24:13,040 wakes up at this time, usually this time 502 00:24:13,040 --> 00:24:15,495 she goes to school 503 00:24:15,495 --> 00:24:17,415 or at this time usually 504 00:24:17,415 --> 00:24:20,585 she goes to pray, e t.c 505 00:24:20,800 --> 00:24:23,520 but during the shooting it can be different 506 00:24:23,520 --> 00:24:24,840 changing 507 00:24:24,840 --> 00:24:27,080 sometimes changing totally 508 00:24:27,080 --> 00:24:30,220 so, that's how we adjust 509 00:24:30,600 --> 00:24:34,060 if there is unexpected moment 510 00:24:34,400 --> 00:24:37,040 in the middle of the night 511 00:24:37,040 --> 00:24:39,920 or very early in the morning 512 00:24:40,400 --> 00:24:43,575 in documentary I feel that my brain 513 00:24:43,580 --> 00:24:45,920 always stand-by even 514 00:24:45,920 --> 00:24:48,540 while I was sleeping I also feel 515 00:24:48,540 --> 00:24:51,580 like my brain is also working, you know 516 00:24:51,580 --> 00:24:52,460 yes yes 517 00:24:52,460 --> 00:24:56,040 like I need to be aware all the time during the 518 00:24:56,040 --> 00:24:57,900 documentary shooting 519 00:24:57,900 --> 00:24:59,240 because you are following the subject 520 00:24:59,245 --> 00:25:00,795 or the subjects 521 00:25:00,795 --> 00:25:03,615 because you are following your story 522 00:25:05,785 --> 00:25:08,365 many people think when I meet 523 00:25:08,655 --> 00:25:11,525 people, friends or family 524 00:25:11,525 --> 00:25:13,680 or just strangers 525 00:25:15,240 --> 00:25:16,980 who knew that 526 00:25:16,980 --> 00:25:20,200 ohh you're working in film ohh it must be cool 527 00:25:22,140 --> 00:25:24,360 you travel a lot 528 00:25:25,380 --> 00:25:27,600 it will be like red carpet 529 00:25:27,600 --> 00:25:29,820 you met celebrities 530 00:25:30,720 --> 00:25:32,920 must be you have nice 531 00:25:32,920 --> 00:25:34,380 kind of photos 532 00:25:34,385 --> 00:25:36,385 for your 533 00:25:36,795 --> 00:25:39,685 social media like behind the camera 534 00:25:39,685 --> 00:25:42,145 holding clapper board 535 00:25:42,145 --> 00:25:45,595 or something like that yeah 536 00:25:46,060 --> 00:25:49,480 it is cute things about this 537 00:25:50,520 --> 00:25:53,460 but it's not only about that 538 00:25:53,465 --> 00:25:55,835 actually many things happen that 539 00:25:56,775 --> 00:25:59,685 because you need to love and 540 00:25:59,685 --> 00:26:00,685 have passion 541 00:26:00,895 --> 00:26:02,025 in it 542 00:26:03,685 --> 00:26:05,482 because it is not 543 00:26:05,482 --> 00:26:06,645 I would say 544 00:26:06,645 --> 00:26:09,375 it's not easy work, you know 545 00:26:09,800 --> 00:26:12,220 and for me it's not just work 546 00:26:12,220 --> 00:26:13,880 it's just not profession 547 00:26:13,880 --> 00:26:16,060 but it's part of life 548 00:26:16,060 --> 00:26:18,420 so, if you don't love it 549 00:26:18,420 --> 00:26:20,855 it's even harder 550 00:26:20,855 --> 00:26:22,245 probably yes 551 00:26:24,240 --> 00:26:26,800 honestly, I don't really know that 552 00:26:26,800 --> 00:26:28,820 we have like precise 553 00:26:30,045 --> 00:26:31,285 time schedule 554 00:26:31,285 --> 00:26:32,780 time working 555 00:26:32,780 --> 00:26:35,740 like, for instance, if people who work in office 556 00:26:35,745 --> 00:26:37,485 they have specific time like 9 to 5 557 00:26:37,485 --> 00:26:40,615 but in film we don't have this 558 00:26:40,860 --> 00:26:43,880 because sometimes we have to 559 00:26:45,160 --> 00:26:47,100 catch some moment 560 00:26:47,100 --> 00:26:49,200 like we need to shoot 561 00:26:49,700 --> 00:26:53,040 sun goes down or sun goes up 562 00:26:53,040 --> 00:26:55,340 like sunrise, sunset 563 00:26:55,340 --> 00:26:57,840 for instance, yeah , just an example 564 00:26:57,840 --> 00:27:00,935 something that explicit 565 00:27:00,935 --> 00:27:03,855 that is easy to explain 566 00:27:04,245 --> 00:27:06,985 many things like that 567 00:27:06,985 --> 00:27:09,680 and I agree with you absolutely that 568 00:27:09,680 --> 00:27:13,240 if a person has no passion about that 569 00:27:13,240 --> 00:27:15,700 it's very hard 570 00:27:15,700 --> 00:27:18,940 because it is hard for people who have passion in that 571 00:27:18,980 --> 00:27:21,705 yes, who have passion in filmmaking 572 00:27:21,705 --> 00:27:25,000 and maybe you can tell us a little bit about 573 00:27:25,000 --> 00:27:29,660 your independent way of post-production 574 00:27:31,180 --> 00:27:34,020 you go further to post-production 575 00:27:34,020 --> 00:27:36,500 post-production is editing 576 00:27:36,500 --> 00:27:38,660 and then an independent filmmaker 577 00:27:38,660 --> 00:27:40,280 needs to go to distribution 578 00:27:40,280 --> 00:27:42,415 so, what is your way? 579 00:27:42,415 --> 00:27:44,435 What is your treatment in these two positions? 580 00:27:48,175 --> 00:27:51,265 yeah it is different in every filmmaker 581 00:27:51,265 --> 00:27:54,765 they have different goals 582 00:27:56,605 --> 00:27:59,005 some of them not really prefer 583 00:27:59,005 --> 00:28:02,440 I know some people who don't want to distribute 584 00:28:02,440 --> 00:28:05,200 so, they made like 585 00:28:05,880 --> 00:28:09,380 They prefer not to screen in the festival, for instance 586 00:28:09,380 --> 00:28:11,740 but only for the community 587 00:28:13,120 --> 00:28:14,695 some of them only 588 00:28:14,695 --> 00:28:17,565 want to screen in the festival, but 589 00:28:18,440 --> 00:28:21,900 not online, for instance, if we talk about nowadays 590 00:28:24,480 --> 00:28:25,480 but for me 591 00:28:27,640 --> 00:28:29,440 if we talk in general 592 00:28:29,440 --> 00:28:30,820 I want 593 00:28:31,300 --> 00:28:33,460 when I make films 594 00:28:33,460 --> 00:28:36,060 I want to show it to people 595 00:28:36,060 --> 00:28:38,000 to audience 596 00:28:40,920 --> 00:28:44,020 for independent filmmakers 597 00:28:44,020 --> 00:28:46,460 usually we don't have 598 00:28:47,760 --> 00:28:49,840 producer or 599 00:28:49,840 --> 00:28:52,560 we don't have special publicist 600 00:28:53,040 --> 00:28:55,745 or distributor 601 00:28:55,745 --> 00:28:58,895 we usually distribute our films 602 00:28:59,300 --> 00:29:01,900 by ourselves 603 00:29:03,480 --> 00:29:06,440 so, that's what I do 604 00:29:07,000 --> 00:29:07,980 Thank you 605 00:29:07,980 --> 00:29:10,340 How do you usually distribute? 606 00:29:10,340 --> 00:29:12,700 What kind of way do you use? 607 00:29:12,700 --> 00:29:13,880 I mean like 608 00:29:13,880 --> 00:29:15,840 I know there are a lot of platforms nowadays 609 00:29:15,845 --> 00:29:18,705 like Filmfreeway or smth else 610 00:29:18,705 --> 00:29:20,740 you can apply online 611 00:29:20,740 --> 00:29:23,040 maybe you can tell us a little bit about that 612 00:29:24,160 --> 00:29:25,440 actually it's 613 00:29:25,440 --> 00:29:29,660 very big difference if we talk about the past and now 614 00:29:29,660 --> 00:29:31,660 because in the past 615 00:29:37,220 --> 00:29:40,160 we need more cost 616 00:29:42,545 --> 00:29:45,305 to submit our film because we need to make copy 617 00:29:46,925 --> 00:29:49,925 of our film in mini DV or 618 00:29:49,925 --> 00:29:52,975 VCD yeah later we had VCD 619 00:29:52,980 --> 00:29:55,460 and then DVD 620 00:29:57,740 --> 00:29:59,980 we have to 621 00:30:00,560 --> 00:30:03,440 send a copy of our film to the festival 622 00:30:04,680 --> 00:30:07,500 through courier through post-office 623 00:30:07,500 --> 00:30:08,820 or something like that 624 00:30:10,480 --> 00:30:12,655 and if the festival 625 00:30:12,660 --> 00:30:14,660 is abroad, for instance 626 00:30:14,660 --> 00:30:17,320 of course, it cost extra 627 00:30:18,780 --> 00:30:21,815 to use the post services, right? 628 00:30:21,820 --> 00:30:23,440 yes yes 629 00:30:24,620 --> 00:30:27,900 and if they request our film 630 00:30:27,900 --> 00:30:31,740 usually they will cover the cost 631 00:30:31,740 --> 00:30:33,960 but if we submit 632 00:30:34,165 --> 00:30:35,465 our film 633 00:30:35,465 --> 00:30:39,020 it means the cost is on us 634 00:30:43,180 --> 00:30:45,740 Nowadays, it's already online 635 00:30:45,740 --> 00:30:49,980 that you, basically you don't need to pay anything 636 00:30:50,240 --> 00:30:52,571 there are a lot of film festivals 637 00:30:52,580 --> 00:30:54,600 that you don't need to pay 638 00:30:54,600 --> 00:30:56,580 for free, yes 639 00:30:56,585 --> 00:30:58,235 the submission is for free 640 00:30:58,240 --> 00:31:00,360 submission is for free 641 00:31:01,520 --> 00:31:04,700 you just need to upload your film 642 00:31:05,160 --> 00:31:08,215 through internet platform 643 00:31:08,220 --> 00:31:10,320 it's like maybe Dropbox, 644 00:31:10,320 --> 00:31:13,440 Wetransfer, Filmfreeway, Mega 645 00:31:14,780 --> 00:31:16,575 many things 646 00:31:16,575 --> 00:31:19,445 Filmfreeway, Filmdepot 647 00:31:19,445 --> 00:31:21,860 many many platforms nowadays 648 00:31:21,860 --> 00:31:24,880 and also because of this digital way 649 00:31:24,885 --> 00:31:26,905 also more and more 650 00:31:27,275 --> 00:31:30,085 maybe we cannot count 651 00:31:30,085 --> 00:31:33,560 like thousands millions film festivals 652 00:31:33,560 --> 00:31:35,820 as well that we don't know 653 00:31:36,000 --> 00:31:38,680 and it gives more chance 654 00:31:38,680 --> 00:31:41,760 for us to try as well 655 00:31:41,760 --> 00:31:45,240 to distribute our film which is cheaper 656 00:31:45,600 --> 00:31:47,820 and perhaps easier as well 657 00:31:48,460 --> 00:31:51,715 How do you think, Kiki, is it easy and 658 00:31:54,500 --> 00:31:57,700 is it easy to be an independent filmmaker? 659 00:32:00,360 --> 00:32:02,880 How do independent filmmakers 660 00:32:02,920 --> 00:32:05,620 usually search for funds? 661 00:32:06,140 --> 00:32:08,475 because I know that funding films 662 00:32:08,480 --> 00:32:11,400 is not an easy way, yes 663 00:32:11,400 --> 00:32:12,440 yeah 664 00:32:13,440 --> 00:32:15,300 ahh yeah 665 00:32:16,740 --> 00:32:19,600 to make the film that is 666 00:32:19,600 --> 00:32:21,800 really your idea 667 00:32:21,800 --> 00:32:23,800 really you feel 668 00:32:24,740 --> 00:32:26,800 you really want to make 669 00:32:26,800 --> 00:32:28,960 this certain project 670 00:32:29,440 --> 00:32:31,960 it's not easy because 671 00:32:31,960 --> 00:32:34,920 sometimes we apply or submit for some 672 00:32:34,920 --> 00:32:38,480 grant, or people, or organisation 673 00:32:41,105 --> 00:32:43,655 it's not easy because 674 00:32:43,660 --> 00:32:46,200 there are also tons of filmmakers 675 00:32:46,200 --> 00:32:48,320 who also apply to the same programme 676 00:32:48,320 --> 00:32:49,500 Exactly 677 00:32:51,855 --> 00:32:54,905 Sometimes we are not selected 678 00:32:54,975 --> 00:32:56,905 I believe that sometimes 679 00:32:56,905 --> 00:32:58,345 if we are not selected 680 00:32:58,345 --> 00:33:00,500 it doesn't mean that your film is bad 681 00:33:00,500 --> 00:33:02,520 or your project is not good 682 00:33:02,520 --> 00:33:05,295 sometimes it's about the taste as well 683 00:33:05,295 --> 00:33:07,965 Some people also do some business 684 00:33:07,965 --> 00:33:10,275 or do another job like 685 00:33:10,275 --> 00:33:13,005 and they save some money to 686 00:33:13,335 --> 00:33:16,375 to make film 687 00:33:16,380 --> 00:33:18,500 that they like 688 00:33:18,500 --> 00:33:22,080 I know there are some filmmakers who are farmers 689 00:33:22,080 --> 00:33:23,400 I know 690 00:33:23,400 --> 00:33:27,380 another filmmakers who are civil servants actually 691 00:33:27,380 --> 00:33:29,000 or they have another job 692 00:33:29,335 --> 00:33:32,345 or me, like I become 693 00:33:32,555 --> 00:33:36,045 I'm a freelancer as crew 694 00:33:36,425 --> 00:33:39,285 in any kind of department 695 00:33:39,285 --> 00:33:42,675 in film production in Jakarta 696 00:33:43,595 --> 00:33:46,635 I mean if you're really passionate 697 00:33:46,640 --> 00:33:48,340 about film 698 00:33:48,340 --> 00:33:50,160 often sometimes people think 699 00:33:50,165 --> 00:33:52,965 ohh you work in film you must 700 00:33:53,545 --> 00:33:56,455 have a lot of money 701 00:33:59,180 --> 00:34:01,860 it can be yes or no 702 00:34:02,920 --> 00:34:06,060 sometimes the goals of working 703 00:34:08,320 --> 00:34:12,375 when we have money we try to 704 00:34:12,375 --> 00:34:14,705 to pay our rent first, to buy food 705 00:34:14,705 --> 00:34:16,720 like the basic things 706 00:34:16,720 --> 00:34:18,780 we try to provide ourselves 707 00:34:18,780 --> 00:34:21,080 Pyramid of Maslow, yes 708 00:34:21,080 --> 00:34:22,700 yeah 709 00:34:22,700 --> 00:34:26,140 but what, usually, at least me 710 00:34:26,145 --> 00:34:27,925 when I am at work 711 00:34:31,345 --> 00:34:34,635 or when I receive 712 00:34:35,265 --> 00:34:37,485 call for project or smth 713 00:34:37,485 --> 00:34:39,675 what came to my mind usually 714 00:34:39,680 --> 00:34:42,800 okay, I will save some money 715 00:34:42,800 --> 00:34:44,665 it means 716 00:34:44,665 --> 00:34:47,280 if they mention like this is the fee 717 00:34:47,280 --> 00:34:48,860 this is the budget 718 00:34:48,860 --> 00:34:50,440 so usually I think 719 00:34:50,440 --> 00:34:52,295 okay, so this is just enough 720 00:34:52,300 --> 00:34:54,560 for my food, for instance 721 00:34:54,560 --> 00:34:57,975 or this is just enough for my rent 722 00:34:57,975 --> 00:35:00,935 but what comes to my mind always 723 00:35:00,935 --> 00:35:03,915 okay, I need to save money for my 724 00:35:03,915 --> 00:35:06,875 my next project 725 00:35:06,880 --> 00:35:10,980 that's the first thing that comes to my mind 726 00:35:11,280 --> 00:35:14,540 to have even just a little bit 727 00:35:14,540 --> 00:35:17,060 even just like 50 000 IDR to save for 728 00:35:17,060 --> 00:35:20,200 your film, your next project 729 00:35:20,820 --> 00:35:23,700 okay, Kiki, so I understood that 730 00:35:23,700 --> 00:35:25,860 like a lot of independent artists 731 00:35:25,860 --> 00:35:28,000 and independent filmmakers 732 00:35:28,000 --> 00:35:29,140 you are just trying to 733 00:35:29,140 --> 00:35:31,645 make money from your freelance job 734 00:35:31,645 --> 00:35:34,760 but somehow this freelance job turned out 735 00:35:34,760 --> 00:35:37,460 to be filmmaking in your case 736 00:35:38,120 --> 00:35:40,700 so, you are filmmaker 737 00:35:41,500 --> 00:35:43,320 filmmaking crew 738 00:35:43,320 --> 00:35:45,740 working for your own independent films 739 00:35:45,740 --> 00:35:46,815 yeah so it's like... 740 00:35:46,815 --> 00:35:48,175 but that's life, yes 741 00:35:48,175 --> 00:35:49,935 and I would like to ask you 742 00:35:49,935 --> 00:35:52,915 about your latest projects 743 00:35:52,920 --> 00:35:54,900 one of them is 744 00:35:54,900 --> 00:35:57,640 documentary film "Calalai" 745 00:35:57,640 --> 00:35:59,433 yes, documentary film "Calalai" 746 00:35:59,433 --> 00:36:01,205 you can tell us a little bit about that 747 00:36:02,055 --> 00:36:05,125 so, my latest project 748 00:36:05,125 --> 00:36:07,775 one is documentary 749 00:36:09,540 --> 00:36:12,700 the title is "Calalai In-betweenness" 750 00:36:12,700 --> 00:36:15,775 it's about the 5th gender 751 00:36:17,125 --> 00:36:19,885 in Indonesia in Bugis culture 752 00:36:19,885 --> 00:36:22,935 in South Sulawesi island 753 00:36:23,280 --> 00:36:26,800 they believe in five genders 754 00:36:26,800 --> 00:36:31,060 which is written in La Galigo manuscript 755 00:36:31,320 --> 00:36:34,175 that humans consist of five genders 756 00:36:34,180 --> 00:36:36,880 male, female, bissu 757 00:36:37,720 --> 00:36:40,620 they are like shamans, like the priest 758 00:36:40,620 --> 00:36:42,160 and then calabai 759 00:36:42,160 --> 00:36:44,160 and calalai 760 00:36:44,160 --> 00:36:46,500 and I made about Calalai 761 00:36:47,740 --> 00:36:51,180 so, it's like they 762 00:36:52,300 --> 00:36:55,680 I mean the Bugis people they have their own system 763 00:36:55,680 --> 00:36:58,100 which is beyond 764 00:36:58,100 --> 00:37:00,300 like they are very great I think 765 00:37:01,105 --> 00:37:02,885 very interesting for me 766 00:37:03,685 --> 00:37:06,655 yes it is, yes it is 767 00:37:06,925 --> 00:37:09,985 I suppose it is also interesting for 768 00:37:09,985 --> 00:37:12,455 nowadays society, because 769 00:37:12,460 --> 00:37:13,860 the more 770 00:37:13,860 --> 00:37:19,160 like every day the agenda of different roles 771 00:37:19,700 --> 00:37:22,660 the society roles, yes 772 00:37:22,660 --> 00:37:23,640 and gender 773 00:37:23,640 --> 00:37:25,560 we discuss it... 774 00:37:25,560 --> 00:37:28,040 yeah, because nowadays also 775 00:37:29,780 --> 00:37:32,400 I mean not only now 776 00:37:35,140 --> 00:37:38,360 many men actually 777 00:37:38,500 --> 00:37:40,880 they become like 778 00:37:41,200 --> 00:37:43,480 work at home 779 00:37:43,480 --> 00:37:46,380 like taking care of the kid 780 00:37:46,380 --> 00:37:49,140 like become the father 781 00:37:49,140 --> 00:37:52,660 and they are not working in the office, for instance 782 00:37:53,140 --> 00:37:55,720 and the wife who is working in the office 783 00:37:55,720 --> 00:37:58,800 which is in some... society 784 00:37:59,280 --> 00:38:02,740 it's like strange or not common 785 00:38:03,180 --> 00:38:04,520 but for 786 00:38:05,215 --> 00:38:08,485 I mean, as long as I learn, 787 00:38:08,485 --> 00:38:11,425 thats' why I made this film 788 00:38:11,425 --> 00:38:14,180 in Bugis society it's okay 789 00:38:14,180 --> 00:38:16,980 or if women work in construction 790 00:38:16,980 --> 00:38:19,440 women become engineers, 791 00:38:19,440 --> 00:38:21,480 technicians or 792 00:38:21,980 --> 00:38:25,255 filmmakers, journalists, police 793 00:38:25,255 --> 00:38:28,275 police officers or smth like that 794 00:38:28,280 --> 00:38:30,780 or even president 795 00:38:32,040 --> 00:38:34,260 it is not smth like... 796 00:38:35,060 --> 00:38:37,260 strange 797 00:38:38,520 --> 00:38:41,580 for Bugis society 798 00:38:42,800 --> 00:38:44,620 I'm not Bugis but so far 799 00:38:44,625 --> 00:38:46,425 thats's what I learned about them 800 00:38:46,425 --> 00:38:49,100 so, Calalai is smth like that 801 00:38:51,020 --> 00:38:53,460 so, if you are 802 00:38:53,460 --> 00:38:56,260 biologically woman 803 00:38:56,460 --> 00:38:57,920 it's okay 804 00:38:57,920 --> 00:39:01,300 for instance, you now become filmmaker 805 00:39:02,120 --> 00:39:05,600 which some people consider this as men's world 806 00:39:05,600 --> 00:39:08,540 yes, a lot of professions in our world 807 00:39:08,540 --> 00:39:10,380 considered to be "men's" 808 00:39:10,380 --> 00:39:12,100 yes yes 809 00:39:13,240 --> 00:39:15,560 okay, Kiki and I also want to ask you 810 00:39:15,560 --> 00:39:17,720 about your latest project 811 00:39:17,720 --> 00:39:20,120 the film "Roti" that 812 00:39:20,725 --> 00:39:23,425 means 'bread" in English 813 00:39:23,585 --> 00:39:26,405 if I'm not mistaken, it is a 814 00:39:26,405 --> 00:39:29,485 microfilm, right? 815 00:39:29,485 --> 00:39:31,635 yes, the duration is only 816 00:39:31,920 --> 00:39:34,120 30 seconds 817 00:39:35,000 --> 00:39:38,820 it's a fiction, but based on a true story 818 00:39:39,080 --> 00:39:43,060 oh, but if it's based on a true story, don't tell us the story 819 00:39:43,060 --> 00:39:44,420 because it's only 30 secods 820 00:39:45,315 --> 00:39:47,695 so, don't spoil anything, yeah 821 00:39:48,160 --> 00:39:49,640 no spoilers 822 00:39:49,640 --> 00:39:50,980 yeah 823 00:39:50,980 --> 00:39:53,480 but it will be screened online 824 00:39:53,855 --> 00:39:56,305 actually already screened in 825 00:39:56,305 --> 00:39:58,120 film festival 826 00:39:58,120 --> 00:40:01,240 Feminist Film Festival in Berlin 827 00:40:01,680 --> 00:40:05,060 and during this Corona time they will screen again 828 00:40:05,060 --> 00:40:07,300 the selected films 829 00:40:07,620 --> 00:40:08,645 online 830 00:40:08,645 --> 00:40:11,620 okay, so maybe we can also give any link 831 00:40:11,620 --> 00:40:14,680 or information below the video 832 00:40:15,240 --> 00:40:17,680 okay, Kiki, I think I will 833 00:40:17,680 --> 00:40:19,515 try to finish our conversation 834 00:40:19,515 --> 00:40:21,965 even though it's very interesting 835 00:40:21,965 --> 00:40:24,705 and very useful to get all these 836 00:40:25,385 --> 00:40:26,505 stories from you 837 00:40:26,505 --> 00:40:28,440 What do you... 838 00:40:28,700 --> 00:40:31,340 Are you in the process of smth 839 00:40:31,340 --> 00:40:33,860 during these Coronavirus times? 840 00:40:34,020 --> 00:40:37,315 or smth like this quarantine? 841 00:40:37,320 --> 00:40:40,920 Do you have any plans any future projects? 842 00:40:41,700 --> 00:40:44,175 so, yeah, during this Corona time 843 00:40:44,175 --> 00:40:47,075 which is we're already in quarantine 844 00:40:47,080 --> 00:40:48,660 all of us 845 00:40:48,660 --> 00:40:51,780 perhaps, most of us in quarantine 846 00:40:53,760 --> 00:40:56,300 I'm working on 847 00:40:56,875 --> 00:40:58,655 video project 848 00:40:59,420 --> 00:41:03,140 which is I'm doing it in documentary way 849 00:41:03,140 --> 00:41:05,195 in the treatment 850 00:41:05,195 --> 00:41:08,115 but the result will be like video art 851 00:41:08,115 --> 00:41:09,845 like experimental 852 00:41:12,865 --> 00:41:15,765 so, you like this moving images 853 00:41:15,765 --> 00:41:17,680 language, yes 854 00:41:17,680 --> 00:41:19,280 I actually love it so much as well 855 00:41:20,385 --> 00:41:22,265 yeah, I mean 856 00:41:23,395 --> 00:41:26,405 video, audio-visual I like 857 00:41:26,405 --> 00:41:30,820 I like audio-visual, I like video so much 858 00:41:33,460 --> 00:41:36,460 besides as maker I also 859 00:41:36,465 --> 00:41:39,425 enjoy it as audience 860 00:41:39,425 --> 00:41:42,605 I love to spend my time watching 861 00:41:43,645 --> 00:41:46,725 short short videos or films 862 00:41:46,785 --> 00:41:48,875 or I spend time in.. 863 00:41:48,880 --> 00:41:52,140 before the Corona time I liked to spend time 864 00:41:53,080 --> 00:41:56,440 just go to the cinema 865 00:41:56,440 --> 00:41:58,220 yes, yes 866 00:41:58,225 --> 00:41:59,755 I can clearly understand you 867 00:42:00,280 --> 00:42:03,400 so, that's the language that you like to 868 00:42:03,400 --> 00:42:06,900 consume and that you like to produce, right? 869 00:42:06,900 --> 00:42:08,400 yeah yeah 870 00:42:08,400 --> 00:42:09,420 okay, Kiki, 871 00:42:09,420 --> 00:42:12,300 thank you so much for having this conversation with me 872 00:42:12,300 --> 00:42:14,080 I'm really glad about that 873 00:42:14,600 --> 00:42:16,560 I hope we can meet again 874 00:42:16,560 --> 00:42:18,755 and discuss maybe some other topics 875 00:42:18,760 --> 00:42:20,840 and maybe we can discuss your next project 876 00:42:20,840 --> 00:42:22,480 when you're already done 877 00:42:22,480 --> 00:42:24,260 when this Coronavirus is done, yes 878 00:42:24,260 --> 00:42:25,420 hopefully 879 00:42:25,420 --> 00:42:26,940 hopefully, yeah 880 00:42:26,940 --> 00:42:29,340 Thank you so much for having me 881 00:42:29,340 --> 00:42:32,220 Thank you so much, Kiki, for sharing everything 882 00:42:33,725 --> 00:42:36,005 Sampai jumpa! ( See you!) 883 00:42:36,005 --> 00:42:38,040 until we meet again 884 00:42:39,620 --> 00:42:41,500 Bye bye! 885 00:42:44,740 --> 00:42:47,800 and now I need to end the meeting, yes 886 00:42:47,805 --> 00:42:49,485 you see this Coronavirus 887 00:42:49,485 --> 00:42:51,800 gives us different challenges 888 00:42:51,800 --> 00:42:53,180 awkwardness 889 00:42:53,180 --> 00:42:55,020 hahaha awkwardness 890 00:42:55,020 --> 00:42:57,360 it's okay, still recording I know 891 00:42:57,360 --> 00:42:59,880 because we've already said goodbye to each other 892 00:42:59,880 --> 00:43:01,020 but I need to find 893 00:43:01,020 --> 00:43:01,800 alright, okay 894 00:43:01,800 --> 00:43:03,740 the button of Ending the meeting 895 00:43:03,740 --> 00:43:05,440 I think I'm done 896 00:43:05,660 --> 00:43:06,660 thank you so much, bye bye 897 00:43:06,660 --> 00:43:08,660 thank you thank you 898 00:43:08,660 --> 00:43:09,940 Bye bye!