[Samantha Markle] It's not just me.
It's happening, all around the world, to people.
And, these people know that they can get away with it,
if they -- or, they think they can,
if they go hide under a VPN.
'Hey, they won't know my ISP, if I do this through a VPN.'
So, it makes it harder for law enforcement to get them.
So, one of the things that twitter, and facebook,
and Instagram, and others can do,
to help law enforcement,
and help keep their participants safe:
biometrics.
If you get on your computer, to sign in,
you're using face recognition.
Or, your fingerprint.
Or, your -- or your I. D.
Is that a violation of freedom and privacy?
Hell, no.
Because they're not out -- they're out there violating others'
freedom and privacy, to the extent of criminal acts.
Criminals are not guaranteed anonymity, under any law.
If they're going to be out there breaking laws,
and -- and -- committing crime,
you're --- you're not entitled to privacy and protection under the law,
of your face, and your I. D., and your -- no, you're --
I think you have an onus,
as a mature, responsible user of these social interfaces,
to be transparent.
You know, yeah -- I'm not out there committing criminal acts, and
I'm going to prove it, by letting everybody know who I am.
You know, by being transparent.
That's just how I feel.
[Staci DaSilva] So when did you start getting harassed?
[S. Markle] So, I started getting harassed
around the time of the royal wedding.
And, and -- the moment that people knew
I disagreed with some things about my sister,
such as, you know,
not inviting both sides of the family,
and, um...
the possibility of my book coming out.
That was another controversial subject.
I started getting threats,
and people would send and tweet
photographs of me being viewed
through a high-powered scope,
behind broken glass,
with my face in targets.
You know, if that's not obvious symbolism,
I don't know what is.
But, it was all with the intent to
intimidate, keep me in fear,
uh, prevent me from releasing my book.
And you can't do that to people.
We have freedom of speech.
And, just because
someone might not like what I have to say,
or that I have a book coming out,
doesn't mean that they can
engage in criminal activity,
coercion, threats, intimidation,
to prevent my exercising my freedom of speech.
[S. DaSilva] Was this on facebook and twitter?
[S. Markle] Mmm-hmm.
And I don't have an Instagram account.
I started one several years ago,
and, like I just,
I think I said "Hello?"
I never used it,
but it's got thousands of followers.
And, it gets daunting.
Like I can't, I can't go, and get to
every platform, and say,
"Hey, shut this down, it's not me,"
so, there are so many fake accounts out there,
that are out there saying disparaging things,
and parody accounts.
Those are also attempts at this, you know,
uh, defamation, libel, slander, bullying. Uh --
[S. DaSilva] How often do you hear from these trolls?
I mean, on your social media accounts?
[S. Markle] Um, I shut it down, so I don't see their mentions.
Because it got to the point
where they were always mentioning me,
trying to, you know,
flag themselves, and get attention,
and say horrible things, and Photoshop and
create things to villainize or criminalize me.
I just thought, you know, "That's not real."
And, for people out there
who are bullied in cyberspace,
you know, I want -- I just --
especially young people.
I want to say,
"You really can't give that legs."
"You can't give it breath."
"It's not real, unless
you allow it to consume you, and you make it real."
Um, so...
you know, teenagers, who go through this.
They don't have the resources
to leave their high schools,
or move out of their communities,
and they are very trapped.
And it's overwhelming for them.
And, some of these trolls
have such a large presence,
creating bots, and multiple avatars,
that these teenagers feel like
they're being attacked by hundreds of people,
when, really, they're not.
They're being attacked by a few,
who make themselves out to be bigger.
Well, that's what bullies do.
They puff their chest.
They want to feel big.
They want to feel like they've got a lot of power.
And, for teenagers,
it's often inescapable, and
it results in suicidal ideation, and even suicide.
So, they need strong support systems.
Their parents, their friends. They need counseling.
But, more than that,
they need to remember that these people
are only real, and powerful, if you let them be.
It's important to reach out, and communicate,
and call them on what they are doing,
before they become a real problem.
[S. DaSilva] You had to leave your home, correct?
How many times have you had to move?
[S. Markle] Twice.
[S. DaSilva] Twice. And, from Florida, to Virginia?
[S. Markle] I moved from Florida to Virginia,
and then, the same thing happened in Virginia.
They were sharing my address,
and asking me if it sounded familiar.
Um, showing pictures of me, behind a scope.
But, it got worse than that.
They were sharing, uh, images of me, being seen through
our security cameras.
Or, me, outside, with my boyfriend
helping me get into my vehicle.
That could've only been either planted in trees, or
seen through our own devices.
Which let me know that I was very hacked,
and I was being watched.
Um, they shared pictures
of my boyfriend, looking at himself
on his own cell phone.
Which let me know
that they had hacked our devices.
And, their apps had camera access.
And, they were mentioning
conversations that we had in our living room,
about money, or other things.
And they would say,
"Hey, what about that thousand dollars?"
So, they were acquiescing
to not only stalking,
but hacking.
For someone like me...
I'm a counselor,
I'm pretty intelligent,
you know, I think I can handle it, and
analyze it for what it is?
But, for a teenager...
who is, you know,
going through identity crisis,
and, you know,
has a self-esteem
that is not totally evolved, yet?
It can be terrifying.
When you know you are being watched,
and everything that you do
is being twisted,
and used against you, to defame you,
and to threaten.
So -- yeah, cyber-bullying is horrible,
and I think that the burden really needs
to be on social media platforms.
Twitter, facebook, Instagram. All of them.
Um, especially the new ones, coming up.
To have strict identification measures
in place, for its users, to prevent this.
[S. DaSilva] So, you moved to Polk county
about six months ago?
[S. Markle] Yeah.
[S. DaSilva] Did you want to say
what town we are in, right now?
Or would you want to just keep it at Polk county?
[S. Markle] Yeah. [S. DaSilva] Okay.
Why did you choose Polk county?
[S. Markle] It's gorgeous.
I love the lakes, I love, you know --
it's, uh -- it's a little more central.
Where I was -- Well, I didn't like fire ants.
In Ocala, it seemed to be one of those things
that was just indigenous to the area, so.
Um, but I really...
I wanted the happy medium.
Being close to water,
as I was in Southern California.
And here, I have it, without the smog.
But, I have family here,
and I love the people here.
So, I'm staying.
[S. DaSilva] Okay.
And, you moved about six months ago.
And, this summer,
you filed a complaint with the sheriff's office.
Why did you do that?
[S. Markle] Because,
I was being stalked and harassed.
Um, my boyfriend got a ticket
for a tail light on a trailer, being out.
And, it was supposed to stay confidential.
But, the address on that ticket
was somehow released, because
trolls were able to comb through
courthouse computer databases.
The problem with that is, that, you know --
yeah, some court records are private,
but it wasn't in the news.
And, I was having my identity and my location
protected by a real estate company,
under the circumstances.
[S. DaSilva] Can we just take that time code down?
Because she said the address,
and we did want to put this interview online?
So, I don't think we want to put the address online. Correct?
[S. Markle] Okay. Sorry.
[Man] About 14:56. Right around there.
[S. DaSilva] Okay.
Just so, when we go back, we can take that out, for you.
[Man] Be careful.
[S. Markle] I know, I know.
[S. DaSilva] Um, sorry. 14:56 something?
[Man] Yeah, right around 14:56, yeah.
[S. DaSilva] Okay.
[S. Markle] Okay. [S. DaSilva] Okay, sorry.
[S. Markle] So, so.
They were saying:
"Hey, does this number or this street match?"
"Does this sound familiar?"
And, I, you know --
in other words, they were taunting me,
with my address, and my location,
letting me know
that they were out there, sharing it.
They were also sharing, um, screenshot admissions
of having my Social Security number.
Then, they said, they said,
"Oh, but we guessed your Social Security number."
Well, out of all the billions of possible combinations?
That couldn't be possible.
So -- you know, they were telling on themselves.
And the bottom line, here, is that
there is very private information that they were actively, all day,
obsessed about and combing, to get every little detail about me.
That acquiesces to stalking.
Because uh, uh, you know, someone who you don't know
doesn't have a right to be looking,
to see if there is anything about you in court,
to see what's going on with your medical records.
To share your address.
To be direct messaging people and asking questions about you.
Unless they are a reporter, or they have some valid reason,
for...getting every piece of information they can, about you,
and taunting you with it.
Like: "Hey, what about this? And what about that?"
Well, who are you,
to ask me "What about this and what about that?"
And, to try and spin it,
to villainize or criminalize me?
So, for -- I can see how, for teenagers,
that's overwhelming.
[S. DaSilva] Mm-hm. Yeah. You talked about the teenagers.
But, has the sheriff's office been open to your complaint,
and been taking it seriously?
[S. Markle] Yeah, since we started this whole thing.
You know, I showed them everything,
and let them know what was going on.
And, you know, I -- I'm really lucky,
to live in a state that takes that seriously.
You know, the cyber-stalking and "stand your ground" laws.
I feel really safe.
And it's nice to know
that law enforcement is proactive about that.
You know, you can't do that to a person.
You can't taunt them, put them in fear,
um, intimidate them --
harass them --
and encourage others, on a wide scale,
to engage in targeted harassment.
It's -- nobody, nobody deserves to live like that.
And, certainly not for expressing freedom of speech.
Because, you're a journalist.
If you did a report, and somebody didn't like something you had to say,
You know...it's really psychotic, that anybody would
go to that extreme, to suppress what you have to say,
and to make every corner of your life public information,
twisting it in a negative way.
To put you in fear, or shame.
[S. DaSilva] And, your reaction to the news spreading across the world
that you were the target of the investigation for
things you have said about your sister,
vs. what actually is happening.
[S. Markle] Well -- and I think that's really important too,
because there is a problem with aggregate news.
I understand that journalists and bloggers get so busy,
and a lot of them, you know --
there is often, on one side of, you know, the coin,
there is paid P. R. that spins things.
But there is also aggregate news error, that happens.
When they see fragments of information,
they don't have a lot of time to pop the stories out,
and they just copy them verbatim.
Maybe, with extra words, and spin it a little bit more.
And suddenly, the victim becomes the suspect.
Because someone didn't understand
what "being at the center of investigation" means.
Well, it doesn't mean I'm the suspect.
And, they didn't ask. They didn't bother to ask.
They just assumed, and put it in print,
that I was the suspect, not the victim.
Shouldn't happen.
[S. DaSilva] So there, as you -- Are you afraid for your life?
Here in Polk county?
[S. Markle] Well, yeah, I have been.
And, and, you know, if you can imagine
seeing your face on a bulls-eye
behind broken glass, or on a dartboard.
And, pictures of someone like Matt Damon,
looking through a high-powered scope,
a clip from a film, or a GIF.
And, "You can run but you can't hide, Samantha."
Those things are symbolic, and they are put out there
with the intent of putting you in fear.
Intimidating you,
preventing you from publishing a book,
um -- which happened, too. You know...
"We're gonna, if you put your book out,
we're gonna download it, and share it for free,
so nobody buys it."
Those are -- those are intimidation, uh, tactics,
that are against the law.
On many levels.
And so, yeah, it was scary for me.
I am in a wheelchair.
I don't need to feel like,
I am a slow moving target, going out of my own home.
Nobody has a right to do that to me, and
they are subject to legal sanction.
It's just -- that's not how a legal, you know,
high functioning society operates.
And, those criminals need to be made examples of.
They need to experience specific deterrents, under the law.
And, they need to be made out to be, you know,
examples of general deterrents.
So other would-be cyber-bullies know,
"Hey, don't do the crime, if you can't do the time,"
and most local law enforcement,
local and federal law enforcement agencies,
will come get ya.
You know, VPN or not,
there are ways to find these offenders.
[S. DaSilva] What do you say to critics who say,
"You spoke out. You know, you were vocal, you wrote a book."
[S. Markle] Well --
[S. DaSilva] "You tweeted..."
[S. Markle] But, writing a book and speaking out...
you know, my father had two heart attacks.
I didn't agree with my sister's treatment of the family.
That does not give some of these unhinged people
license, or the right
to engage in criminal activity against me.
Stalk, harass, incite violence against me.
It's like, any of us who have fought
for freedom of speech,
whether the issue is gender, race, political issues,
just because you say something
doesn't give people who disagree with you,
the right to put you in fear and suppress your opinion,
by threatening you when you do.
And that, you know --
I think that's what we really need to make a precedent.
We're not tolerating this any more.
We all have to 'agree to disagree' under the law,
because if you take it beyond those legal boundaries,
and you engage in criminal activity, intent,
you know, um -- intimidation, and harassment,
um, with the intent to put someone in fear,
if they speak?
It's against the law.
[S. DaSilva] Do you have any regrets
for anything that has happened, since, you said,
around the royal wedding?
[S. Markle] Um...
the only regret...
no, I don't have regrets.
Because I was being honest.
And I've always said,
"You shouldn't regret telling the truth."
And, when you tell the truth, you know --
yeah, I don't think the whistle blower is the problem.
But, if you do it from a heartfelt place,
and it's about family,
and it's about something you care about,
when you tell the truth,
the person on the receiving end,
or who you are telling the truth about,
has the opportunity,
but, I believe also, responsibility,
to say,
"Hey. Let me hear what you have to say.
Let's communicate.
Let's have a meeting of the minds,
and make things better.
Let's do what's right, here."
And, the only way the right thing can happen
is if people talk about it.
Silence, as the status quo,
accomplishes nothing.
So, you know,
where people were afraid to speak,
because of this high prestige issue, um...
it's wrong.
Because there's a real family issue there.
The public got involved.
They took it too far, without saying,
"Hey, they are family.
They can speak out if they want to.
It's not really our business."
But, they had their own agendas.
So, you can't suppress freedom of speech.
Or, none of us would be here,
and you wouldn't have a journalism job.
[S. DaSilva] Obviously, I think
there are similarities, here.
Between what you are saying,
and what your sister is saying,
and her husband.
[S. Markle] Right.
[S. DaSilva] About how they've been treated,
[S. Markle] Exactly.
[S. DaSilva] In the media, with
false reports, online harassment, and trolling.
How do you feel --
do you have compassion for them, in that way?
[S. Markle] I do, and I've also learned, through this,
that you know, in terms of aggregate news,
at one point, they were seeing stories,
probably reacting to what they thought we said,
or what they thought we were doing.
We were -- it was very reciprocal.
We were reacting.
But, the bottom line is,
there was so much propaganda out there,
that none of us really knew where the truth was.
And similarly, with the bullying.
You know, the people that disagree with her
have bullied her, to threatening extremes.
They bullied Kate and William.
They've bullied me.
But they have -- the difference is,
they have the money and the social, um,
or the financial resources, to protect themselves against that.
A normal person,
like me and my dad, you know, our family --
we don't.
[S. DaSilva] Mm-hm.
[S. Markle] We just got caught in the middle of it.
But, nonetheless, we had the right
to speak our feelings.
[S. DaSilva] There are people, I'm sure,
I will get tweets, facebook posts, whatever, saying
you even doing this interview
is you still trying to get publicity off your sister.
Why are you speaking out today?
[S. Markle] I am speaking out today because
there has been this really, uh, interesting phenomena, of
...people have always demanded their freedom of speech.
They speak out against the President.
They speak out against, you know,
whatever the issue is.
Or, the celebrity.
And, nobody says, "You just want attention."
They're just out there,
exercising their freedom of speech.
But because of this royal situation,
suddenly, it's all about,
"Oh, you must want attention."
Well, I worked in broadcasting
for a long time.
I am fifty-four.
I don't need attention.
It, it, it was a family issue,
it was heartfelt.
I was concerned with
my father dying, without closure.
And, and, in our communities,
because there was no invitation to the wedding,
it became public.
And the assumption was,
"Oh, you must not be worthy,
since you weren't invited."
So, it's not like It was a wedding in Ohio.
And, we wanted attention:
"Oh, why didn't we get invited."
It's because all of our peers in the world
were suddenly, you know,
putting us under a microscope,
"Why didn't you get invited?"
And it was some sort of character indictment.
The implication that,
"Oh, you must not be worthy."
And then, aggregate news
started spinning assumptions:
about the book, about family members.
And it got out of control.
So, um. Do I want attention?
No.
What I really wanted out of all of this,
was my sister to realize,
"Hey. I got caught up in a whirlwind.
What I did to my dad was wrong.
We're all bigger people.
Let's evolve, and do the right thing."
And it takes just as much time
to do the right thing,
as it does to ignore it.
And, um,
I'd like to see him be able to communicate with her,
before he passes away.
[S. DaSilva] That was going to be my next question.
What do you hope for your relationship with Meghan,
and your father's relationship with her?
For her to reach out?
[S. Markle] At some point, when she is ready.
But, you know, with me.
But, with my father,
'at some point' may be too late.
So, you know --
our repeated efforts to extend an olive branch...
I would assume, you know
when interacting with a, quote, "humanitarian,"
would be met with a very humble, um,
acceptance, and yeah,
"Let's look at this. Let's make this better."
And, that's all I was trying to say.
And, if that's bashing, wow.
Then, so, sue me.
[S. DaSilva] There were some bashing tweets.
[S. Markle] But that's, you know --
'Bashing?' Well...
I think a lot of the media labeled it as bashing,
like, if I did the thing I said about
Harry at the birthday,
"While you're mac-ing down on your birthday cake,
don't forget to wish Dad a Happy Birthday."
Is that bashing, or is it witty?
The problem --
[S. DaSilva] I think you called him a wuss.
[S. Markle] Yeah. Take your pants back. Be a man.
Because,
the whole family was being ghosted,
and I felt like,
"Hey. You know,
you're a man, too. You're letting my father suffer."
And, there was no real invitation.
Uh...so, I felt like,
somebody has to step up, and do the right thing,
and say something.
I worked in broadcasting.
I'm a counselor.
I believe in communication.
And, nobody was saying anything.
And the problem with tweets, though,
is that you can't hear tone of voice.
So, while I thought I was saying something
maybe cynical, maybe witty,
people couldn't hear it.
They were interpreting it through their own life lenses.
Maybe they were angry.
Maybe they've got a negative lens
over everything in their lives.
And, then, they were reacting to it
from their own personal perspectives.
Which does not always coincide with
the sender intent.
So, I think that's something really important
about social media, too.
And because there can be those crossed wires,
and they can be emotionally heated,
twitter and facebook and Instagram
have more of an obligation
to...not moderate that,
but, to keep it safe,
when people's intrepretations carry it to such heated levels,
that it crosses over into criminal activity.
That, you know, people are --
[S. DaSilva] People say things on social media
they would never say to someone's face.
[S. Markle] Right! Because the avatar, you know, is a shield.
It's a false source of empowerment.
You know, in the animal kingdom,
they puff their chest, to look bigger than they are.
Well, they can do that on social media.
Behind an avatar.
"Ooh, big words, on an avatar."
"I've got a flower out there, or a kitty cat.
But I'm going to say big, disgusting, terrifying things,"
and, you know...
It's...not good.
[S. DaSilva] How is your dad doing?
[S. Markle] He's doing okay.
He's doing better. He's, um...
feeling, you know...
I think, more empowered.
This has been...
a growth opportunity for all of us.
But, I think more than anything,
it's really interesting that the royals,
Meg and Harry,
and, you know, this side of the fence,
the Markles,
we are all kind of saying the same thing.
It is that you can have,
especially with the family,
if there is an issue out there, or a social issue,
you can disagree,
but you don't take it to the level of incredible,
terrorizing, taunting, intimidation,
threats.
That's where we cap it.
[S. DaSilva] Your father doesn't live in Polk county as well, does he?
[S. Markle] Hmm-mm.
[S. DaSilva] Okay.
Um...I read some articles...
I think you had said that you
raised Meghan until she was twelve,
pretty much? Or?
[S. Markle] See, here is where
I am gonna talk --
[S. DaSilva] I'm gonna fact-check that.
[S. Markle] Here's where I am gonna
talk about aggregate news, see.
[S. DaSilva] Yeah.
[S. Markle] Even a journalist like you,
and a lot of other journalists,
and talk show hostesses, believe that.
And I was sitting here, going,
"Wow. Where did you hear that?"
[S. DaSilva] Mm-hmm.
[S. Markle] Because I had said in one interview,
"I was integral in her life, until about twelve."
I always lived about ten minutes away,
she was born in our household,
my dad and Doria divorced when she was about six.
Still, it was during the week, weekends, intermingling,
you know, when I wasn't working.
And life was very normal.
For families with big sisters, and you know, younger kids.
But some journalists took it upon themselves
to say:
"She said she raised her."
I never said I raised her.
I said "I was integral in her life, until about twelve."
And then, even interacting all the way up through Northwestern.
And when she was in Buenos Aires.
And, even when...
So, to set the record straight,
the last time I saw her was 2008.
The last time I spoke to her on the phone was 2015, December,
going on January, 2016.
The last week of December.
So, no, it's not like --
and people said,
"Oh, she hasn't spoken -- "