(applause)
(Laura Washington): Good evening and
welcome everyone, I'm really honored
to have the pleasure of sharing some
conversation up here. Welcome, Michael!
(Michael Eric Dyson): Thank you,
it's great to be here.
>> I know you come through Chicago every
now and then, but >> Mm-hm. >> this is
your old home, stomping grounds >> Yeah.
>> from time to time when you were
teaching at DePaul >> Yes, yes. >> and
writing. We shared a spot on the Sun Times
editorial page >> Mm-hm. >> when you were
writing that great column and we miss you
here! >> Well, I miss being here, and your
crisp writing is ever as lively, and
you know, I miss being here in the Chi.
>> Well you're here tonight >> Mm-hm.
>> to talk about the black Presidency.
>> Mm-hm. >> And just wanted to open by
asking you, what are you trying to
accomplish with this book? >> Well, I
wanted to, and I want to take measure of
the use of race in the Obama Presidency,
to talk about how race was used to frame
the President before he got into office,
to talk about how race has framed our
perceptions of who he is as a human being,
what his political and even personal
desires are, and how his personal identity
interacts with his political one, and then
I wanted to also understand the degree to
which race has been deployed against him
since he's been in office. How has it been
a barrier, how has it motivated people to
obstruct what he has attempted to achieve,
how has it facilitated some of those
achievements, and how has it been used to
deflect certain political issues, and how
has President Obama himself been a racial
procrastinator, and become racially
hesitant, when it comes especially to the
interests, politically and communally, of
African-American people. >> Now, that's a
very nuanced, balanced summary, but this
book is tough on the President. Really
tough. I mean, you had some praise for
him, but there was a lot of tough love
there. And I know you talk in the book
about getting, wrangling an interview with
The White House, >> Mm-hm. >> an interview
with the President, that took some doing,
and it wasn't as long as you would have
liked, but I suspect that if you tried to
get that interview now you wouldn't even
get past the front door. >> Mm.
(audience laughter)
>> Would you agree? >> Well yeah, but it
wasn't person--you know, the reason The
White House didn't talk to me wasn't
because--I don't think--they didn't like
me, they didn't want to talk about race.
>> Mm-hm. >> You know, I've noticed a
couple of reviewers, they didn't want to
speak about race, they didn't have
anything against me, I was a surrogate for
the President twice. >> And when you say
they don't want to talk about race,
you're talking about >> The White House.
The Obama-- >> Are you talking about--
>> Administration. >> The President. Are
you talking about the President? >> Well,
they represent him, he hired them. >> But,
yeah... >>So, the people around him. I
didn't have his number, so I couldn't call
him directly. >> (laughter) >> Well let me
stop lying. I had his number before he
became President. >> Yeah. (audience laughter)
That one doesn't work anymore. >> He used
to call me on his cell phone. >>(laughter)
>> So, (laughs) >> So you're-- >> So he's
Drake-ing me. No, so the President didn't
want to talk about race, the
Administration didn't want to talk about
race, that is not a subject they wanted to
engage. But most of my book, you know,
it's eight chapters. Only two are taking
the President under a rigorous scrutiny in
regard to him A) scolding black America,
and B) dealing with the police crisis in
this nation. I open the book speaking
about his extraordinary speech in Selma,
I talk about some of the principle
critique that has been put forth, I talk
about his role as the American President
and the black face of an American empire,
I talk about his genius as a rhetorical
figure within our community, I talk about
his relationship to Jeremiah Wright and
I try to balance both speaking about
Reverend Wright in the historic legacy of
the prophetic wing of the church, as well
as Obama's kind of political obligations.
So I think there's a lot of, tremendous
recognition for the positive contribution
he's made, but whenever you criticize also
it seems to be out of kilter when most of
the book is not that. >> Sure, sure that's
understandable. And the juiciest stuff
always rises to the surface. >> No doubt
about it. >> (laughter) >> You know, let
the beef burn. >> Let the beef burn. Well,
so-- >> Sorry, Biggie. >> A big question
that you come back to again and again
>> Mm-hm. >> is the question of, Barack
Obama and the Presidency and what does
that mean, and you ask the question, is
Barack Obama the first BLACK President, or
is Barack Obama the first black PRESIDENT.
>> Right. >> And you actually elude that
you believe the President, Barack Obama,
thinks he is the latter, he would prefer
to be seen as the latter. >> Understandably.
>> The first black PRESIDENT. >> Right,
right. Understandably, right. >> Talk a
little bit about that. >> Well, if you
want your adjective to modify your noun...
Or, you know, this President did not want
to be "blackened" in a negative fashion.
Right? Because his enemies were waiting,
champing at the bit, to demonize him. To
suggest, "Ah-ha! We have found and
discovered that you have paid more
attention to black people than anybody."
Or, "You're trying to hook black people
up." Or, one of the fears, people tend to
forget this, before Obama became President,
"He's going to do to us what we did to
them." Now you can take that however you
want, speaking in more abstract and
general terms. So there was a great fear
among certain subsections of white America
that Obama was going to show the vitriol
and the anger and the rancor that they
thought was coming to them that they
thought black people were harboring in
their hearts against white America.
>> I think that our experience in, you
remember back to the day of Harold
Washington, and I think there was a lot of
that feeling in the community back then.
>> Sure. >> And that's why whites were so
in fear of that >> Mm-hm. >> historic
election, and many people might say that
the white-led city council opposition
spent a lot of time pushing back >> Sure.
>> to prevent that terrible thing from
happening >> Sure. >> when they were going
to get their comeuppance, and
they wanted to make sure they never got
their comeuppance. >> The Vrdolyak--
>> The Vrdolyak 29. >> Yeah, no doubt.
>> And this is the same thing all over
again. >> Absolutely right, it's a great
parallel. And so, Obama didn't want to be
judged by anything but by what other
Presidents are judged by. Judge me
according to the job I do. Judge me
according not to my personal identity, or
my pigment, or your fetish for the
epidermis, judge me based on the integrity
of my gestures in office and who I am as a
political figure. >> And what's wrong with
that? >> Nothing at all.
>>So...you don't have a critique as far
as--you feel that it's fair for him to not
want to be judged as a black man, and
because-- >> Black President. Right.
>> Black President. >> Well, but here's the thing, if he wants
to be judged like every other President,
every other President has been judged
according to what he did with race. If you
want to be like them, >> Mm-hm. >> they did it too. And if I recall,
none of them, despite conspiracy theories,
were African American. >> Mm-hm (laughter) >> You know, some black people
come up to me, "You know there were five
black Presidents." Bro, if nobody knew
they were black, they wasn't black. >> (laughter)
>> It didn't make a difference, because if
you don't treat them that way, if you
don't know that they are...you know you
can discover late in life, "Oh my God, I
didn't know that I was a Negro." >> Mm. >> But if you had been treated
like a white person your entire life, then
the difference that makes is minimal. >> Mm-hm.
>> So, my point is this, that every other
President has been judged according to
what he or...he...has done-- >> (laughter)
>> Maybe soon that will change. What he
has done in regard to the nation, but also
what he has done in regard to the nation
as it results in relationships to African
American, black people, colored, negro,
and the like. They've had to deal with
segregation, they've had to deal with
slavery, they've had to deal with Jim
Crow, they've had to deal with Affirmative
Action, so why is it that the first black
President thinks because of personal
discomfort, or the willingness, or the
desire, excuse me, to distance himself a
bit clinically from the discomfort he may
feel because he doesn't want to be judged
as a "black man" and as a "black President,"
that creates an entire set of fears that
other Presidents have not had. That
creates another layer of, I think, problematic
distancing of black people from their
representative government. >> Ok. Now, you say it has a lot to do
with his personal discomfort, and I know
you've got that phone number, you talk to
him all the time, but some people might
think there's other issues that he's,
you know, he's got this incredibly hostile
opposition in Congress-- >> Sure.
>> In the Republican Party-- >> I talk about that.
>> You talk about the racist response-- >> Yes, yes.
>> He's got a lot on his plate, he is the
leader of the entire world, he's a busy
man, so why is it that-- >> That he ain't got time--
>> that some of those are some of the
reasons that maybe he didn't get as much
done or address race head-on as he should
have? Does it have to do with him
personally, or it has to do with-- >> No--
>> his job? >> No, well, it has to do--look, we don't
have any comparative analysis here. >> Mm-hm.
>> He's the only one. >> That's true.
>> That's what happens when you're Jackie.
Hey, what did all the black--? Oh, there
aren't any. So when you're Jackie
Robinson, Willie Mays hasn't come along
yet. Larry Doby is not in the dugout
waiting to take his swing at bat. So,
you know, Don Newcombe is not yet present.
So, he is Jackie Robinson. And an extraordinary
figure Obama is, being the first equanimity,
equipoise, balance, self-deprecation,
humor, I mean, he's from Central Casting,
let's be real. >> From Central Casting as far as the
first black President-- >> I'm saying--
>> The kind of right person-- >> Right.
>> At the right time. >> He's pretty good for white people too.
>> Mm-hm. >> I mean, if he was just a plain old
white guy he'd be extraordinary. >> Mm-hm.
>> But for a black man, even more so given
what it took for him to get elected. And I
mean from Central Casting, for white
brothers and sisters who have a problem,
I'm saying if you got a problem with
Barack Obama, you in trouble, because
there ain't a black man been made that's
going to be more amenable to the dominant
culture than Barack Obama. Don't get mad,
don't say stuff in anger, don't "Yes we
can," "Yes I can," "Of course we will,"
"We'll try," and even when he gets mad he
signifies. Right? Not the last State of the Union
but the one before that. When he announced
that, "I have no more races to run--"
you know, very nice, casual, and the
Republicans are trying to get a shot in
across the bow, "Yeah, thank you." And
Obama goes, "That's because I beat you." >> (laughter)
>> Now, if I can be his anger translator,
I could tell you what he was really saying
in black speech. >> (laughter)
>> Like, "What you want me to do? I beat
yo [silently mouths expletives]." >> (laughter)
>> Alright? I mean, so the reality is that
Obama is signifying, radiating-- >> For those--
>> the implicit inferential value of blackness.
>> For those in the audience who may not
know what you mean by "signifying"? >> Well, I'm just saying
what "signifying" is is that he is
suggesting something that is beyond what's
on the page. He is engaging in a symbolic
representation of an experience that may
not be literal but communicates something
to people who are on the "inside." When
you signify, you are looking at a
particular experience, and the people who
get it. When Jesus said, "Let those who
have ears, let them hear"? Well, those
who have ears, African American people,
we get what he was saying, we get what he
was suggesting, because of a culture.
I don't mean that we were born with black
interpretation as part of our birth--we
were handed a bottle and a black
interpretation box, that's not what
I'm saying. >> (laughter)
>> I'm saying because of the cultural
signifiers that Obama was reared with,
in part, you know, there was a communication,
that's what I mean by signifying. And I
think that--but to get to the point, to
get back to my point, the point is that
the President of the United States of America,
when I say "personal discomfort," I don't
mean that he didn't face all the stuff you
talked about. But look how insulting that
is, "Hey black people, he's too busy for
the stuff you're doing. He's taking care
of the real business." >> Mm-hm.
>> Right? Like, the real business--I think
race is pretty real business. And I think
race effects everything, and why do we
know this? Because nothing he said about
anything else may have occasioned the
similar response that he got when he
talked about race. And isn't it interesting?
You know, when people defend the
President, and rightfully so in some cases
when they say, "Look, the moment he speaks
about race, it's radioactive." Oh yeah,
versus, say, ISIS. >> (chuckle)
>> Yeah, yeah, they loved him on that. Oh,
they loved him on--they haven't tried to
rescind-- >> Well race is a radioactive topic no
matter who brings it up. Right? >> But this is my point,
but I'm saying it's not just who brings
it up, it's WHO is speaking about anything.
It's not the topic of race, this is what
I'm trying to say, Barack Obama speaking
about anything is the racial division.
Because he is a black man, he is embodied.
And as a result of that, whatever HE speaks about
is automatically subsumed under the rubric
of race and is automatically, if not that,
radioactive because he's the black man.
I'll tell you what I mean. Republicans
had ideas that they loved that Obama
promoted. When he started promoted them,
they didn't like them no more. >> Mm-hm.
>> Now that doesn't mean that that's
automatically a racial problem or a racist
problem, I am suggesting that the
accumulative impact of his presence there
has suggested that no matter what Obama
speaks about, that it will be divisive to
some people. >> And do you think that's any different
from past Presidents? >> Of course.
>> From Bill Clinton, from-- >> Of course. Other Presidents
have had horrible responses-- >> Right.
>> And people beating up on them, impeaching them,
saying that they were murderers and stuff,
all that is real. But I'm saying there's
an extra layer with Obama. Right? As a
University of Chicago law professor said,
no other President has been subject quite
to what he has been subject to. So I think
that to acknowledge that is to talk about
what a difficult situation he's in. But,
the point I was trying to make is that to
dismiss however the issue of race by
saying, and he indicated this in the "Race Speech,"
the famous race speech he gave in March-- >> In Philadelphia.
>> In Philadelphia in 2008, in response to
Reverend Jeremiah Wright's "Goddamn America,"
extracts of that speech exerted and not
seen in the context in which they were
delivered, but he suggested there that
there are a lot of things going on. And
we bought Obama's narrative with that.
But race is what's going on as well. The
interest of black people--and when you
said earlier, you didn't say it quite the
way he said it when you said, he's the
President of everybody, Obama has
constantly reminded black people, "I am
not the President of black America." Wow.
Is that right? Didn't know that. Didn't
know that he was not--you know, I don't
think black people thought you were the
head of the NAACP, I think they actually
knew you were the president. You didn't
tell gay, lesbian, transgender, bisexual
people you weren't the President of them
when you stood in defense of gay marriage,
which I stood with and for, masses of
black people were mad at Obama for that,
and I thought he was heroic to stand
against the vituperative, nasty hatred of
and suspicion of gay people in America,
including in African American communities.
But, I'm saying that when you say I'm not
the President of black America, that may
be true, but you are the President of
black Americans. We are citizens of the
United States of America and we deserve
to have respected, like any other
constituency, the interests we bring to
bear and demand from the President. >> And you argue that African Americans
are disrespected and not given the same-- >> They're treated differently.
>> LGBT's, you mention Jews, other
interest groups-- >> Environmentalists--
>> have gotten more out of Obama than
black people have. >> Well, yeah, for obvious reasons and for
some not so obvious reasons. >> And what are the
not so obvious reasons? >> Well, the obvious reasons would be
he doesn't identify in public as gay,
lesbian, transgender, bisexual or you know,
so he's not seen as hooking his own people
up, his own particular tribe. Whereas with
black people it would be like, what are
you doing there? Now, what's amazing to
many white people--most white people have
voted for a white candidate for President.
It never occurs to white people, "Am I
being a racist? I've only voted for white
people, I've only voted for white Presidents,
43 times," black people do it one time,
"Oh my God, Jiminy Cricket, what's going on?"
>> (laughter) >> "There's a racial rebellion here."
And yet, 43 Presidents--ok, white people
remind me, my brothers and sisters, that
he's half-white too--43 and a half Presidents
have been white. >> (laughter)
>> Ok, so black people are understandably
defensive about the half-brother we got
in The White House. Right? And so, yes,
what I'm trying to suggest here is that
the President made a distinction when
speaking to black people that was condescending.
To remind black people that after all
he is not their President alone, is to
insult their sensibilities and their
political sophistication. These are people
who have elected mayors, and Congresspeople,
and Senators, and council people--these
people are relatively sophisticated about
what it means to engage in the political
process, so to remonstrate against them
morally in public had a dual function:
not only was it meant to distance himself
from a narrow, race-based thinking, it was
also meant to signify to white America
that he was capable of holding his own in check.
>> Hm. Ok. Now you've also argued that
he treats--in his speeches, in the way he
handles his policy--he treats whites and
blacks differently in terms of expectations.
That, you know, African Americans are-- he scolds--there's a chapter
where you talk about his scolding of
African Americans-- >> Mm-hm.
>> and where he tends to let white
Americans off the hook, and one line that
jumped out at me, I'd just like to read,
is, you said that, "Obama is willing to
underplay evidence of persistent black
suffering while promoting a naively
optimistic view of the depth and pace of
racial progress." >> Mm-hm.
>> Those are two sort-of connected points there.
>> Yeah. >> Expand on that.
>> Well, I mean, to link them to the point
you were making earlier about the scolding
of black America... When you go to
Morehouse College, which is a historically
black college, a black male college, where
Martin Luther King, Jr. graduated, Maynard Jackson,
the mayor of--the first black mayor of Atlanta,
and many other distinguished figures that
went to that school, when you go there to
their graduation, and you use that as an
occasion to excoriate them, and to chide
them about responsibility and not making
excuses and getting things that you work--
you know, getting things that you don't
really deserve, I think that's an ironic time to do that speech,
and it's an ironic audience to which he
delivered it, because they were, after all,
not making excuses, they were graduating. >> Mm-hm.
>> So, they were actually putting putting
hoods on. And on top of that, he says, for
people who get things...you know, people
in America--he said in a global economy as well--
are not going to have any sympathy for
people who get what they have not earned.
The only person who didn't earn a degree
that day was him, he got an honorary degree.
The rest of them had earned their degrees.
So, before--and I was there, at the 50th Anniversary of the
March on Washington, which was a
breathtaking, and I do mean breathtaking,
dispiriting display of I think one of his
lowest moments as a public interpreter
of race. He's such a brilliant man,
he's such a smart man, he understands the
history of race in this country like few
other Presidents ever had, and yet in that
celebration, sitting there, he said that
black people were particularly responsible
for the stalling of racial progress in America.
And he went on to suggest that because of
poverty, black people had made excuses not
to rear their children and the like.
You would have thought that you were
listening to a neo-conservative or a right-wing analyst
and sociologist and social theorist who
was trying to pinpoint the pathology of
black culture as the basis for our suffering.
And it was--speech after speech he's done this.
>> Yeah. >> I was there at the Congressional black
caucus when he said, "Take off your
bedroom slippers and put on your marching shoes. Stop complaining."
Wow. >> Mm-hm.
>> Now, John Lewis is in that audience,
John Conyers is in that audience, Maxine Waters
is in that audience, people when he was
knee-high to a tadpole, who were engaging
in serious and sustained argument against
social injustice-- >> Mm-hm.
>> It was rather insulting. >> So why do you think--he's doing that
because that's what he really believes,
that he disrespects, does not appreciate,
is ashamed of black folks? Or is it for
other--is it a strategy? Is it a political
strategy? >> Mm.
>> Some people say, you know, he can't
talk about race, or he can't talk nice
about black people because then white folks won't trust him.
I mean, now, whether that's true or not,
that is a belief that's out there. So why
does he do that stuff? >> Yeah, you give me the answer--that's
interesting what you just said there. >> (laughter)
>> None of which is in my book, but maybe
in the second edition I can quote you. >> (laughter)
>> You know, look, it's a complicated story.
No, he's a highly intelligent man, and,
you know, the late, great Maya Angelou is,
maybe it's apocryphal, I'm not sure, but
she is rumored to have said that when
people tell you who they are, believe them.
So we're trying to figure out, "What'd he
mean by that?" Let's just take him at his
word, maybe he actually A) believes it...
Alright? And there are--look, he is a
moderate Democrat. He is not a progressive
in the broader sense, even though as one
white author from Union Theological Seminary argues,
and I think convincingly, that among
people who could be elected President,
he's one of the most progressive Presidents
that we've had in quite some time, and
that is actually electable. I actually
agree with that. But in the broad scheme
of things, you know, we see that Obama is
subject to double standards relentlessly.
Right, right? What was this fear about Obama:
"You're a SOCIALIST!" Now you got a guy
running, he ain't even hiding it! >> (laughter)
>> "I am a Democratic Socialist!" Right?
Ok, that was a bad Larry David impersonation.
>> (laughter) >> I'm better with Ronald Reagan,
"Now there you go again." So now, you got
a guy who's out front admitting that he's
a Democratic Socialist. So we see that
white privilege operates not only in terms
of Republicans and conservatives, but even
within liberal and Democratic circles.
My point simply is this, is that Obama
believes, I think, what he said, we have
to take him at his word, and then beyond
that, I think he also understands, as he
did in the church here in Chicago,
Jeremiah Wright's rhetoric was radioactive,
let me go to a black church and not be
heard criticizing white people, but let me
be seen criticizing black people. Would he
go to a white church and call Fathers, as
he did at that church here in Chicago, fools?
He said, "Any fool can have a baby,
it takes a man to raise one." First of all,
Jesse Jackson said that 30 years before
he did. >> Hm.
>> But Jesse Jackson was balanced. He was
talking about the people who were engaging
in certain kind of practices that were
destructive within black America, and he
was also highlighting and underscoring the
vicious effect of white supremacy.
So there was a balanced attack. Obama sees
one side--you know, he is wont to quote
Chris Rock, and that famous saying of Chris Rock--
Chris Rock says, the comedian, he says,
"Some black people want to be praised for
stuff they should be doing." And then he
gives the example, "I take care of my kids."
And then Chris Rock goes, "Idiot, you're
supposed to take care of your kids. Why are you asking
for praise for that?" Obama will quote that.
>> Mm-hm. >> But he won't quote what else Chris Rock
says. Chris Rock also goes on to talk about
"Cracker-ass crackers." Now I don't expect Obama--
and excuse me, I'm quoting a comedian. I don't want you to think--
>> (laughter) >> I love you, white America, I love you.
I want you to buy my book and I'll sign it for you.
>> (laughter) >> So, I don't expect the President to say
"Cracker-ass cracker," but he also says,
"You know what, white people also," this
is what he said in an interview in 2015,
let me give you a more powerful quote that
Obama might site. Chris Rock says,
"When people look at my--" he said,
"I have beautiful kids. They're intelligent,
"they're smart, they're well-behaved,
"they're disciplined." He says, "So to ask
"me, has there been racial progress, is to
"assume that black people were themselves
"part of the problem as to the reason why
there wasn't progress." He says, "White
"people are now less crazy than they used
"to be. Let's keep hoping that white people
"will continue to be less crazy than the
"crazier white people that we knew 50 years ago
"who disallowed progress." Now, some
version of that the President might put forth.
Not calling white people crazy, I'm not crazy.
What I'm saying is that he might also say,
"You know what, white brothers and sisters?
"There's a shared responsibility here.
"There are things that must be done on
"this side of the aisle, but there are
"also things that the broader society must
"engage in as well." The failure to do so
gives the perception to even well-intending
white people, "You know what, he never
"criticizes us, but he's always
"criticizing black people. They must
"really have a problem." When he
constantly lacerates them for failure--
let me give a perfect example--let me give
an example. When he came to Newtown, which
he should have come to, which he should
have gone to, and he shed a tear in The White House,
down his cheek, he should have, he went
there and saw the wanton destruction of a
young man out of control. And Obama shed
tears over the deaths of those 20-some-odd
children because it represented, he said,
the worst day of his Presidency. And yet
people begged him to come to Chicago and
other places, and you can't cry where you
won't go. And, beyond that, the President
refused to go to Ferguson, refused when he
was--the other day in Detroit--to go
60 miles up the road to Flint, Michigan
where vulnerable, black children are
being poisoned by their government because
of the water that is there. What am I
saying to you? I'm saying that Obama not
only did that, but he went to Chicago.
When he came, he sat down, and afterward
he gave a speech, he says, the family
structure's wrong, the fathers are not
here, and so on. The young man who
murdered the people in Newtown? Child of
a broken family. He did not-- >> That was something he never
talked about. >> He did not say to white America,
"You know, I'm afraid for you. Your
"families are being stricken by divorce
"at rising rates, the pathology that is
"inherent in the destruction of the family
"is of cause and concern for us." That's
not what he said. So why is it that when
he comes to black America he gives
lectures and moral remonstration, when he
goes to white America he offers resources
and empathy. And I'm saying to you, as a
fair criticism, not a bitter, nasty criticism of him,
I think that's something we have to point out.
>> And that's interesting you bring up bitter and nasty
criticism, because there's some bitter
and nasty critics out there that you
identify in the book, and maybe you don't
use that term, but the Cornell Wests of the world,
the Tavis Smileys of the world, and you
distinguish them, but from people like
yourself, other critics--what's the difference
and what's going on there? >> Well, Tavis less so than
Professor West, who has been nearly
unstinting in his vitriol and unrelenting
in the personal ad hominem attacks on the
President. Which is pretty--it's just unprincipled.
>> It's, again, it's not balanced. >> It's not--well, I mean,
ain't no balance in, "Am I going to call
you a doofus or a nut?" You know, I mean,
you know, there are choices among many
ad hominems. One is less abrasive than the
other, but I'm saying the resort to
name calling itself is a moral flaw at that level, right?
There are many legitimate criticisms to be
made of the President, calling him names
is not one of them. "A mascot of Wall Street,"
"A Republican in blackface," calling
people like me, or Al Sharpton, or
Melissa Harris-Perry "sellouts," "bootlickers,"
"prostitutes." Now, for the brothers and
sisters sitting here today, is that, West
calls Dyson "a sellout because he's
"consumed with Obama in a positive fashion?"
Geez, where was he, and what's he listening to?
Right? Because I try to be balanced in my
understanding of what this man has faced.
The difference in us I think is that many
of the critics who are principled, critics
of Obama, understand what he's up against. >> Hm.
>> That every day he goes to work--a lot of people
are trying to kill him. The most threatened President
in the history of this country by far.
A man, if he says "left" they say "right,"
if he says "up" they say "down," if he
says "wet" they say "dry." The first President
in the history of this country to not have
an automatic rise on the debt ceiling.
Republican and Democratic Presidents
before him: Ronald Reagan, Jimmy Carter,
and the like--automatic. With Obama,
not so. Cost us a bond rating, lowered it
in this country, in other words, a faction
of citizens who happen to be political
figures and representatives were willing
to cut a hole in the boat of the ship of State
to satisfy their thirst to sink him, and
in the process, help sink the nation
because they were obsessed with him.
That's the kind of thing that many-- >> So--
>> of us who are critical of Obama also understand.
>> And you don't think that Cornell West
appreciates that, or maybe might have said
it doesn't matter. >> It hasn't made a difference in his
rhetoric. >> Yeah.
>> It hasn't tampered--you know, it hasn't tempered
his assault upon the President, and beyond
that, you know, he was a person who was
very close to Bill Clinton. Now, as Al Sharpton says,
Reverend Al Sharpton says, whatever
criticisms you have of Obama, he said,
at least he didn't do something against
black people in the way that Bill Clinton
did when he signed the crime bill, welfare reform,
and did horrible things to his friends
Lani Guinier, Joycelyn Elders, and not his friend,
Sister Souljah. >> Mm-hm.
>> (chuckles) So, he's got a point. >> Mm-hm.
>> And at that point Professor West was
duly in the camp and he says he disagreed
with President Clinton when it came to
welfare reform but he didn't call him no
names. I know it's "any names." >> (laughter)
>> He ain't called him no names. >> Yeah.
>> He didn't attack him, he didn't assault
his character, and he didn't viciously say
the kinds of things about people around
him, like me, his former student, and
others, who took a principled difference
with him. And I spoke to Professor West
here in Chicago, and he said to me, he says,
"You know what, you are just as critical
"of Obama as I am, but you don't catch
"nearly as much hell." I said, Well I
have a sixth inning theory of baseball.
And in the sixth inning of baseball, if
the game is called because of rain,
whoever is ahead is going to win. So I
said, I'm not going to start on the black
President. I have enough pride in his
achievement of office, I have enough
understanding of the incredible difficulties
he confronts, that I've got to talk about
Mitch McConnell, and John Boehner, and
then Eric Cantor--I've got to talk about
you know, resistance to this man and the
obstruction that he has confronted, the
opposition that has been unprincipled, and
then engage in some serious analysis about
what he does. And I said, I always
emphasize my respect and love for him, and
appreciation for the difficulty he has to
confront. And I maintain that to this day.
>> So what has he done right? Is he-- >> A lot of stuff.
>> Ok. Give me some pointers in terms of-- I mean,
has he advanced race relations in this country?
Are we a different country or a better country
racially because of him? Has he--you actually say
at one point that there are other Presidents
that have done a lot more for black people
than he has. >> I don't just say that, that's the
record. You probably agree with that as well.
>> Well you think-- >> You think he's done as much
as LBJ? No. So, I mean-- >> LBJ and you also mentioned
Lincoln. Used as another example-- >> It's hard to free the slaves, yeah,
it's hard to imagine that. >> (laughter) It's hard to beat that one,
huh? >> It's hard to beat that.
You can't get the high score on that. That's not--
>> So what's he done right? >> A lot of stuff.
But see, that's the false positive, right?
That's the false opposition in an equivalence.
It's not that because I'm talking about
what he's done on race that therefore
he hasn't done anything right, he's done
huge amounts of work that are right.
Right? Things that are right. He got into
office, he saved the economy. That's huge,
that's number one, he got into office,
the banks were about to fail. Now, I know
a lot of people are critical of him and
the capitulation to Wall Street--imagine
the headlines when the first black President
gets into office, and the next day the banks fail.
Dude, you ain't gotta worry about a second
term, you might not make it to next week.
Alright? They gonna be on you. So he can't
allow that to happen, I mean, in any sense
of a world that we think is viable.
He saved the banks, he saved the economy,
he bailed out the automobile industry,
and he gave us health care. I mean-- >> Ok--
>> That's pretty remarkable. >> And so why isn't that good enough
for black folks? Black folks all benefited from those accomplishments--
>> Well you're a black person, you answer that.
Do you think that's good enough? >> I'm asking you.
>> When black people are dying in the streets?
Look, you ain't going to have no healthcare
if you're dead. >> Mm-hm, ok.
>> So, you have to live first. Black lives matter because
in order to have healthcare you have to be
alive in order to receive it. In order to
make money you have to be alive to make it.
So there are some fundamental structures
here that need to be addressed--why isn't that good enough?
Why isn't that good enough for anybody?
It's not good enough for anybody. The lack
of dignity is not a good state of being.
And so--and not only that, the President,
in going out of his way to castigate and
to cast dispersions against black folk
and to lecture them, was depriving them of
one of the most valuable and viable mouthpieces
for a set of issues that the nation needed
to grapple with, not just black people.
You know, I don't expect Obama to give the
Presidential speech on white privilege.
He knows about that. He's subtle enough to
understand how to thread that needle.
Right? He's "signifying" again, he knows
how to do that. >> Right.
>> So there are ways in which he could have used his talent,
as he did with Trayvon Martin, after that
speech he gave, and by the way, he was pushed.
He didn't just give that speech because he wanted to.
What was the first response of Obama to Trayvon--to the
George Zimmerman verdict? Five, six lines,
"We're a nation of laws," "the verdict has
"been rendered," "don't burn stuff up."
>> Hm. >> I think his own--
>> So when you say he was pushed-- >> I think his own wife and kids came on
like, "bro, bro, bro--" >> (laughter)
>> "What you got? What you got? What you got? What you got? What you got?"
>> "Gotta do better than that." >> "What you got? What you got? Come on
"now. You the man, you got skills, you can speak,
"I know you got skills, man." >> Mm-hm.
>> Alright, so--and let me tell you why I
know this, let me say this, this is a
small rabbit, but I'll chase it--a former
secret service agent wrote a book, two of them.
The second book, he talks about why the
secret service people loved Michelle Obama.
A) because she was very warm to them,
she would touch them, ask how they were doing.
B) they loved her because she would scold
Obama. She would say, "You are making
"these men wait, they have schedules too.
"Stop making them late!" You know Michelle
broke it down on him like that. >> (laughter)
>> But here's why they didn't like her.
A) she was hard on the Republicans. (gestures)
and B) in the back seat of the limo, they
said they heard her say, "Every now and again,
"take the black people's side." >> Hm.
>> Now that's south side Chicago black woman rollin' hard.
That's representing. But! The fact that
she had to tell him is as revealing as the
fact that she told him. >> Yes.
>> And so I'm saying, therefore, that
Obama was pushed into that--what's wrong with pushing?
FDR, if it's an apocryphal story, Harry Belafonte tells it and others,
FDR meeting with A. Philip Randolph,
the great black labor leader, and Mary McLeod Bethune,
the great educational leader, and they met
with FDR in The White House, and they put forth
a program--help the negro do this, you know, jobs, voting and stuff.
He says, I believe in everything you're doing now go out there
and make me do it. So Obama, in theory,
said that before he got elected. When you get elected
it's different. But secondly, let me tell
you who prevented that--the masses of black people.
Black people did not want Obama to be pushed.
And I can understand that. He's the first one--
when you've had 43 Presidents you're bored.
Whatever...it's a dude...he's doing what he does.
For us, it's everything. Everything is on that thin frame of Obama.
So, as a result of that, when Obama was
pushed he did great things, he did better things,
he gave that speech after Trayvon and he
explained to white America, "Hey, let me
"ask you a question. If Trayvon Martin,"
this is what he said, this is how he talked about
white privilege without calling it that,
he said, "If Trayvon Martin had a gun and
"defended himself against George Zimmerman,
"would the outcome be the same and would he be allowed
"to defend himself in a 'stand your ground' law?"
He said, "And if there is even a question
"about whether or not that may be true,
"then we need to revisit that." >> Right.
>> All he's saying is, this is white privilege,
examine it in a serious way. So he did
tremendous things when pushed in principle to speak.
He gave a great speech at Selma, I was there,
it was an incredible speech. The eulogy he gave
at the Reverend Honorable Clementa Pinckney's funeral
is one for the ages. So there's a lot that
Obama did that was beautiful. I think
he'll go down as one of the greatest Presidents ever--
it will not be race that wins him that plaudit.
>> Yeah. Got you.