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← Accessibility and Websites - Svetlana Kouznetsova

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Showing Revision 1 created 02/01/2013 by Retired user.

  1. (Steve Bruner)
    Alright, welcome to the WordPress

  2. New York City meetup!
  3. Okay, so tonight we are going to have
  4. Sveta present about accessibility with websites.
  5. (Sveta voiced by an interpreter)
    Hi, everyone!
  6. My name is Sveta.
  7. Actually it's short for
  8. a longer version of my name.
  9. I'm originally from Russia,
    that's why I have such a long name.
  10. And i'm presenting about web
    accessibility - something i'm very
  11. interested in as a deaf person.
  12. As someone who is disabled,
    naturally I'm very interested in
  13. web accessibility.
  14. And this is a logo created by some university
  15. that represent accessibility.
  16. Because not everyone uses a wheelchair,
    there are people who are blind or deaf,
  17. who have cognitive disabilities
  18. as well who aren't necessarily
    represented by the wheelchair logo
  19. that's usually used for accessibility.
  20. So you have the eye, the hand, and the ear,
    and the brain to represent cognitive abilities as well.
  21. So I am sure you all know who Tim Berners-Lee is.
    Is there anyone who doesn't know?
  22. Who knows who he is?
  23. OK many of you know who he is -
    and this is a quote from him:
  24. "The power of the web is in its
    universality. Access by everyone
  25. regardless of disability is
    an essential aspect."
  26. In the early days of the web
  27. it was actually more accessible than now
  28. because most of the websites were text and links,
  29. and not very many images and videos.
  30. So there wasn't a lot of audio, but today
  31. 97% of websites are not accessible.
  32. Many people who are blind.
    They think: "Oh they can just
  33. use screen readers. That's good enough
    for them." But actually the web,
  34. the sites must be coded
  35. in order to be compatible with screen
    readers, or people
  36. who can't use a mouse,
  37. or who can't use a keyboard,
    need other devices.
  38. Automatic captions are not very
    accessible for deaf people.
  39. So 97% of websites as a
    result are not accessible.
  40. Maybe people think that people with
    disabilities are a small group of people,
  41. but actually disabled people can
    constitute the largest minority group -
  42. more than foreigners
  43. and the market here for people
    in the United States
  44. is $1 trillion.
  45. That's double the spending power
    of teenagers.
  46. Worldwide, people with
    disabilities constitute
  47. a $ 4 trillion market place.
  48. That's almost the size of China.
  49. So it's a really important group of
    people that should not be ignored.
  50. It's not just people with disabilities
  51. who benefit from web accessibility
    as you see from these pictures.
  52. You have a mother with a stroller and
    also a businessperson carrying
  53. a roller suitcase.
  54. Ramps are actually very helpful
    for people in all these situations.
  55. It also benefits people who use carts
    or any sort of wheeled devices.
  56. Ramps and elevators help
  57. these people as well.
  58. So it's not just for people
    who are using wheelchairs.
  59. Also captions not only benefit people
    who are deaf.
  60. Speakers of foreign languages also
  61. benefit from captions.
  62. People who are developing
    their literacy skills or
  63. if someone's in some sort
    of noisy environment and
  64. they want to watch something
    quietly on the web,
  65. that's another reason why captions
    for videos are so important.
  66. In talking about the spending power
    of people who have disabilities
  67. doesn't only affect people with
    disabilities, but their friends and
  68. family members as well.
  69. If products and services are
    not accessible
  70. then you lose those extra clientele
    as well because
  71. you have 2 billion people worldwide
  72. are connected to people with disabilities.
  73. That constitutes a disposable income
    of $8 trillion.
  74. So it's another benefit.
  75. The devices that can help
  76. people with independence in terms of
    computers or mobile phones -
  77. you have a large audience.
    This participation,
  78. this increased market opportunity,
  79. also having a positive image,
    not just waiting for someone to sue you
  80. because your website is inaccessible.
  81. If u show that you're making
    an investment for accessibility,
  82. it's a much better better investment than
    spending money on a lawsuit later.
  83. Improved visibility is another benefit,
    and also higher search engines results.
  84. Speaking of search engines -
  85. this is the largest accessibility needs
    user on the Internet,
  86. because Google, Yahoo!, and Bing -
  87. those sites can't see images and
    they really rely on captioning
  88. for the images.
  89. If a video doesn't have captions it
    does not appear in search results,
  90. because Google can't hear a video.
  91. Thus captioning and the tags
  92. are very important for
    search engines.
  93. And with javascript...
  94. sometimes the code in javascript is not
    compatible with some keyboards as well.
  95. How many of you are familiar with Web
    Accessibility Guidelines?
  96. It seems that there are a number of you.
  97. Perhaps it might be very
    overwhelming because the list
  98. of guidelines is quite long
  99. and even for myself I can be quite
    overwhelmed with that, so people tend
  100. to make these categorizations
  101. and create basic guidelines
  102. which are described as
    the acronym P.O.U.R.
  103. Perceivable.
  104. Meaning blind people who
    can perceive the image,
  105. they might need an audio to supplement,
  106. or for people who can't hear,
    they rely on captions.
  107. Operable.
  108. Means people who use a keyboard
  109. to make sure that everything -
    all the functions can be used
  110. by a keyboard not just by a mouse.
  111. You don't have to hover over something
    to be able to see the option.
  112. People can't rely on a mouse would then
  113. not be able to use that function.
  114. Understandability.
  115. Understandable means if text is there
    to make sure that text is easily
  116. understood by any user.
  117. Even though maybe you might think:
  118. "Well, there's a YouTube video -
    YouTube has automatic captions -
  119. that might be good enough."
  120. But automatic actions are
    usually unintelligible. They really
  121. do need to be cleaned up
  122. otherwise most deaf people will not
    be able to understand them.
  123. Robust.
  124. Means something that's compatible with
    current and possibly future technologies.
  125. So now talking a little bit about how to
    make a website accessible in terms of
  126. the technical aspects.
  127. The semantic web.
  128. In terms of the semantic web,
    content is king.
  129. Perhaps someone has
  130. a fabulously beautiful looking website
  131. but the functionality in the content
    is weak.
  132. We have these three elements:
    html, css, and javascript.
  133. The html provides a very strong
    foundation first,
  134. and then you can use style sheets
    with css,
  135. and then javascript - it's probably
  136. best to use javascript only
    when necessary.
  137. I know it might seem fun to add some more
    fun functions, but
  138. the less javascript, the more accessible
    a website could be.
  139. How many of you are familiar with
  140. that WordPress has this word 'role' - R-O-L-E
  141. - how many of you have noticed that in WordPress?
  142. A few of you?
  143. I've noticed that role
  144. equals main role banner
  145. and I thought that perhaps some people think
    you can just delete that but that's very
  146. important part of the web accessibility.
  147. Here's some examples of role -
  148. like body,
  149. the role document,
  150. header
  151. has a role, banner,
  152. and if main will have a role, main,
  153. footer has its content info.
  154. So on the WordPress
  155. template keep the role,
    don't get rid of that.
  156. There are more examples
    of this role as well.
  157. In terms of the html structure,
    it's important to have a good structure
  158. to the website.
  159. Many of you might
  160. skip links, but it's important
  161. that it's in the top of the html page,
  162. because many people who use screenreaders
  163. don't want to hear link over and over.
    again for every page.
  164. So they prefer to have the option
    of 'skip link'
  165. to the main content or other parts
    of the webpage.
  166. You can also hide that
  167. with the css style sheets,
  168. but don't use 'display none'
  169. or 'visible none'
  170. because that will cause the screenreader
    not to show the content.
  171. If you indent over -
  172. over position -
  173. then you can hide
  174. those commands that only the screenreader
    will be able to distinguish.
  175. Talking about images -
  176. navigation - all the navigation buttons
    must have bullets
  177. <ul> and <li>
  178. for the screenreader.
  179. You can style with css,
  180. but it's important to have those
    bullet points.
  181. Drop-down menus - it's best if you use
    html and css not javascript for those.
  182. You can have the drop downs in css,
  183. but it's also important to keep the drop
    downs limited to maybe two levels,
  184. because the screenreader is going to repeat
  185. that over and over again.
  186. Header <h1>, <h2>, <h3> -
  187. it's best to use that
  188. for the content organization, not for
  189. The <h1> keep that just for
    the page title,
  190. and <h2> for subcategories -
  191. not using that for the menu
  192. or for anything other than
  193. just the content.
  194. It's really annoying to see
    'click here'.
  195. To download you don't need that. Just
    click here to download is very annoying.
  196. Or click here to download with check list.
  197. You can just have download checklist and
    the kind of file that it is because the
  198. screenreader reads click here, click here,
    and the screenreader isn't sure what
  199. you're clicking for.
  200. So the message, if it's just very clear -
    download to a pdf -
  201. then the person who is using the website
    will know to expect the certain
  202. kind of document.
  203. For the content text,
  204. make sure it can be resized in terms
    of a percentage, or
  205. in the terms of em.
  206. This way people who have low vision,
  207. who have some vision but can't see very
    well, can resize the text.
  208. Similarly on mobile devices,
  209. don't have frames,
  210. image maps,
  211. or layout tables.
  212. Those are very hard for screenreaders
    to be able to detect.
  213. Make sure that all functions can be
    accessible all through the keyboard,
  214. and that javascript - if you have to use it -
  215. it's better if it's downgradable,
  216. because then it there is a problem with
    javascript the website is still functional.
  217. Write in simple language using
    bullet points. Most people -
  218. anyone could have a disability,
    or the general public doesn't
  219. necessarily have as
  220. much time to spend reading
  221. a lot of text on a web page.
  222. You'll also want to have the web
    layout consistent for each page.
  223. If you need to, it's best to use
    html 5 canvas instead of flash.
  224. You can make flash accessible,
  225. but html 5 is a better way to go.
  226. Flash is also not accessible
    to users of iPhones and iPads anyway.
  227. I'm talking about the images and logos.
  228. There's a lot of confusion between
    'alt' and 'title'.
  229. alt means what you can't see.
  230. the title tag is an optional thing -
    you don't need to have that.
  231. If it's an image that leads to
    another page,
  232. like a logo on the top left of the
    the navigation,
  233. you could have a description of what
    the image is.
  234. Accessibility logo, for example, alt.
  235. And then the title will say "go to home page"
    or going to a different website.
  236. If the image is just decorative
  237. then you can keep the alt empty,
  238. but don't remove it.
    Just had it there, but it doesn't need
  239. to have anything in there.
  240. Also no text in the graphics -
    it's best to use
  241. html for the text
  242. as screenreaders will not be able to
    read the text inside of an image.
  243. Avoid image maps if possible,
    that would be the best.
  244. Providing text or shapes for a color button,
  245. and i'll talk about color in a moment.
  246. Don't use strobing, flickering, or
    any sort of optical illusion because
  247. people who have seizures
  248. will be sensitive to that, and they might not
    even be able to see that or detect that.
  249. If it's something that's a slower
  250. pulsating type of image that could be ok,
  251. but not something that's an optical illusion.
  252. I mean, I know maybe it's apropos
    for some websites but usually
  253. it's not very accessible.
  254. Talking about color -
  255. one in ten men are color blind.
  256. I've met a lot of men
  257. who are color blind,
    but actually I haven't met a woman
  258. who is color blind, and statistically
    it's only one in two hundred.
  259. If you notice a subway map,
  260. typically I'll say to my friend, oh I will take
    the green line, or take the red line,
  261. or the orange line.
  262. I rarely will reference the number but if
    someone's color blind it might be harder.
  263. Red and green are typically colors
    that people who are color blind are
  264. sensitive to,
  265. yellow and blue not so much,
  266. and rare that you would see black
    and white color blindness
  267. but this is sort of an image
    of what that might be like.
  268. So you don't want to rely on color only.
  269. For example these buttons -
  270. stop and go here -
  271. you can read it. It's a little hard, but
    for someone who is color blind,
  272. that's what it will look like. It just
    looks like brown on brown,
  273. and then the text gets lost
    in the color.
  274. Contrast is a better way to make
    something more accessible.
  275. Whether or not you want to add an image
  276. make sure that someone is not
    reliant on the color of the
  277. information for the information.
  278. I'm sure you're familiar
    that facebook is blue. Do you know why?
  279. Because Mark Zuckerberg is actually
    color blind, that's why facebook is blue.
  280. I just read about about that.
    I thought that was cool.
  281. In terms of tables I'm not going to go
  282. into great depth in terms of the code
  283. but here's a summary about it because
  284. some tables are more simple, some are more complex.
  285. Here is a summary just so you have
    a heads up about this.
  286. In terms of captions
  287. to explain what's in the table
  288. <th> must be there for the header,
  289. and scope should be included.
  290. and also CSS has specific rules for
    the table.
  291. Tables should only be used for
    tabular data -
  292. like a spreadsheet or something that's
    in a matrix format.
  293. They shouldn't be be used for layout.
  294. You should just use css for the layout.
  295. In the past tables were used much more
    commonly but now not so much.
  296. In terms of these tags for the heads,
    body, footer,
  297. you can find more of these
    in google or online in other places.
  298. Forms.
  299. It's important to have labels
    for the input.
  300. It is also good because the screenreader
    user is reliant on the keyboard.
  301. Most of us are relying on the keyboard
    as well.
  302. The 'label for' tag
  303. might only be for
  304. these small radio buttons.
  305. If you use <label for>
  306. that means that you can also include
  307. the entire text. So if you click on the
    word -
  308. that also gives you the selection as well.
    It's great for the keyboard users
  309. and people using screenreaders.
  310. If you use groups like radio buttons
  311. checkbox
  312. or setting up a field - <fieldset>.
  313. and <legend>,
  314. those are basic rules for tables.
  315. Now we're talking about video and audio
    and as a deaf person this is something
  316. I've experienced a lot of frustration with -
    most videos online are not captioned.
  317. Many video broadcasts are not
    accessible to deaf people.
  318. Some people think, well YouTube has
  319. automatic captions - and I encorage people
  320. to use YouTube not Vimeo.
    Vimeo does not support captions at all,
  321. YouTube has some captioning support.
  322. I also recommend YouTube because
    it's very easy to use and it's an easy way
  323. to add captions, but
  324. do not reply on the auto-captions
  325. because they are
  326. really hard to understand,
  327. and I'll show you in a moment an example.
  328. It's important to have good quality
    captions and transcript -
  329. not just relying on speech recognition.
    You could use that perhaps but make sure
  330. that it's cleaned up.
  331. Or perhaps hire someone
  332. who can produce a good quality transcript
  333. beyond just what an automatic speech to
    text recognition can do.
  334. Also if you use radio podcasts
  335. you can have a good enough transcript for that,
  336. but make sure that you have
    the proper style -
  337. identifying speakers for example;
    make sure punctuation is correct;
  338. and if there are any sound effects like
    laughter or playing music, that that
  339. information is included as well.
    Because a deaf person is not going
  340. to hear those audio cues.
  341. For videos you should have
  342. both captions and transcript
  343. The reasoning is because if someone
    is both deaf and blind
  344. they're not going to be able to follow
    the transcripts -
  345. I mean the captions.
  346. They might be reliant on a braille
    display that pops up
  347. for them to be able to read the
    transcript as away to access the video.
  348. Transcripts benefit not only deaf
  349. people and deaf-blind people,
    perhaps for an hour long video somebody
  350. would be able to skim through the
    transcript a lot faster than watching
  351. the entire video.
  352. So it really in general is best to have
    both the transcript and the captions.
  353. Sometimes you want to be able to watch
    and hear the video, and then be able
  354. to read the captions,
  355. without first watching the video
  356. or just read the transcript.
  357. Just as it's important to have
    the audio and video in sync,
  358. it's important the captions
    be synced as well.
  359. In terms of webinars
  360. it's important to hire someone who's
    a professional transcriptionist,
  361. somebody who is professionally trained
    for that,
  362. so that they have 98% accuracy
  363. with 220 words per minute.
  364. That's the required speed and
    not everyone can do that.
  365. So if you want to have a video pick
    a player that supports captions,
  366. and if you want a transcript that may be
    too much for you to do yourself -
  367. this is a popular service CastingWords -
  368. and you can use that for podcasts and
  369. also YouTube videos.
  370. If there's a time stamp,
  371. you can then upload it to YouTube,
  372. and they have a way that you can sync
    ticket options with the video.
  373. I have more information on my own website.
  374. Usually I'll give a one hour
    presentation on this kind of information
  375. so I'm only touching on points here.
  376. I want to show you why automatic captions
    are not reliable.
  377. There's no sound on purpose,
    just for you to watch it.
  378. So I've actually listened with a person
  379. who could hear whether the captions matched,
  380. and they said that it didn't.
  381. The speech recognition is just
    relying on a machine.
  382. It's good that it does something,
  383. but it's hard to rely on the auto-captions.
  384. Most people think that it's no big deal,
  385. we can just use that, but they do really
  386. need to be cleaned up by a person.
  387. So here's some general information.
  388. WebAIM is a great resource
  389. for making your websites accessible,
  390. and very clearly presented,
    the information there.
  391. If you'd like to have an evaluation tool
  392. this is a very popular site - WAVE -
  393. developed by the WerbAIM team.
  394. I do have that on my computer and
    it's very helpful.
  395. It's not 100% reliable or accurate.
  396. Sometimes it might miss
    certain elements of the site.
  397. Firefox also has accessibility
  398. and the WAI has a lot of
    different tools here.
  399. Captioning, if you're more curious
    about that,
  400. I do have a website here with
  401. a lot of information and my contact
    information is there as well.
  402. If anyone has any questions?
  403. (Audience Member)
    Are there any WordPress templates
  404. and/or plugins that you recommend
    as being very accessible?
  405. (Sveta voiced by an interpreter)
    I'd have to google it in terms of
    accessibility and WordPress..
  406. (Audience Member)
    Anything that you've used or come across
  407. that you're really comfortable with?
  408. (Sveta voiced by an interpreter)
    I've just started using WordPress
  409. earlier this year so i'm not as familiar.
  410. (Audience Member)
    What websites are potentially liable to being sued
  411. for not being accessible, and for what period?
  412. (Sveta voiced by an interpreter)
    There are so many.
  413. Well, ninety seven percent of web sites
    are not accesible,
  414. for example, Netflix.
  415. The deaf community's actually suing,
    in process with a lawsuit right now with Netflix
  416. because they refused to caption
  417. their streaming videos. Their dvds have captions,
    but they don't have streaming captions.
  418. CNN is also involved in a lawsuit right now,
  419. they have captions on television but they
    don't have captions on their web content.
  420. I know that blind people, they sued
    Target. There was a blind community
  421. involved in a lawsuit against
    the Target website.
  422. (Audience Member)
    So there's some examples, and like I say
    it's a better investment
  423. to make their website accessible than
    be liable and possibly be spending money
  424. on a lawsuit later. Are there any ways of tracking,
  425. using Google analytics, to see how many access-challenged
    users are coming to your site
  426. so you can say to a client,
    you need to address this?
  427. (Sveta voiced by an interpreter)
    I don't think there's any way
  428. to track using Google analytics.
    I think user testing is the only way
  429. to really track accessibility,
  430. and these accessibility valuation tools.
  431. (Audience Member)
    Aren't there separate browsers
  432. that can be used by accessibility...
  433. (Sveta voiced by an interpreter)
    What do you mean?
  434. (Audience Member)
    Uh... for the speech,
  435. it can read through..
  436. There are certain browsers that can..
  437. that, if you need it read to you,

    you can..use that browser,but I'm not sure
    if it's capturable in analytics.
  438. (Sveta voiced by an interpreter)
    No, not that I'm aware.
  439. It's the same concept as if you
    design a regular website,
  440. and your user experience is not just
    about the people who are disabled but
  441. you might try to have some user testing
    to see whether or not
  442. the website conforms to the expectations
  443. of a certain user group that's very similar
  444. to people who are disabled.
  445. The only really way to find out is
    the survey people with
  446. disabilities and get their feedback.
  447. (Audience Member)
    That's one of the questions I am asking about
    developers asking the disabled community
  448. how to do certain things.
    I mean, I am beginning to lose my vision,
  449. and I've found it's very difficult
    to get somebody to say,
  450. well, it's very easy
  451. to do this because I see other technology
  452. being used broadly and maybe
    the inference about ramps,
  453. well everybody uses ramps and
    it's part of the culture
  454. not just about accessibility and those
    who need it and it's really for everybody.
  455. (Sveta voiced by an interpreter)
    I'm sorry. Is that a comment or a question?
  456. (Audience Member)
    The question is ...
  457. How do you get people's minds
  458. wrapped around that you should be
    developing for everybody all the time,
  459. rather than to step back and say
    I'm going to do this site for blind people,
  460. I'm going to do this site for deaf people.
    It's just that why shouldn't you just
  461. include all these accessibility tools
    as part of your regular development?
  462. (Sveta voiced by an interpreter)
    Well, because people aren't aware
  463. unless they have had that
    explicitly explained to them
  464. as it a deaf person I might say well I need
    captions, but I might be perceived
  465. as being just one deaf person asking for that.
  466. People don't realize that captions
    benefit speakers of other languages.
  467. My parents have perfect hearing
  468. but their first language is Russian,
    not English,
  469. and they watch television with the
    captions on,
  470. because it helps them understand and
    learn English better,
  471. The disability market is huge
  472. and so they shouldn't be overlooked.
  473. People who are becoming older,
    you'll notice the baby boomers
  474. are now a very large segment of the
    population and and more and more of them
  475. are developing disabilities as they age.
  476. So I mean it's not easy,
  477. I can overload people with statistics.
    People who care tend to really
  478. make the investment, and others
  479. don't, they won't.
  480. Do you want to do responsive,
  481. type of reactive design, or
    be like people who want to
  482. develop based on user experience?
    Those are two different
  483. approaches that people can take.
  484. (Audience Member)
    No. I am just making, I guess, the comment
    that the very fact that you are here
  485. raises the fact that a lot of people in
    this room probably never even thought about -
  486. I mean that may be just an assumption on my part, but -
    I think this is just a way of raising
  487. the awareness for the rest of the community.
  488. (Sveta voiced by an interpreter)
    Yes, right. And, for me, I'm a sighted person
  489. but sometimes, if a page is slow to load,
  490. I still like to have the description
    of the image
  491. because I might shut off images
  492. and still want to to be able
    to see what it is to make it
  493. load the page faster.

    Just having "something dot jpg"
  494. isn't necessarily going to be very helpful.
  495. It helps the searchability
  496. as well if those tags are there in the
    descriptions. Even though I am not
  497. blind I benefit
  498. from accessibility for blind users.
  499. And even with captions, people think well
    they don't need that,
  500. and then later on when they use them,
    they'll realize how they
  501. appreciate it and they wish
    they had used them earlier.
  502. I think there was some in the back
    with a question?
  503. (Audience Member)
    I was just wanting to respond to something that
    the gentleman up there said earlier
  504. about why include it in everything that you do
    as kind of a default thing.
  505. Well why do we include mobile versions
    and responsive versions of sites

    by default? I think it should be treated
    the same way. I'm not arguing with you. (laughter)
  506. (Sveta voiced by an interpreter)
    That's a good point. Yes.
  507. (Audience Member)
    Could you speak more about

    responsive design?
  508. Are you saying that responsive has
  509. a better capability for the disabled?
  510. (Sveta voiced by an interpreter)
    Well, not exactly. It can overlap,
  511. but not exactly.
  512. Because if you use mobile phones
  513. but the code is not compatible
  514. for a mobile phone, I'm not sure how
    exactly people with limited vision
  515. even use the mobile phone. That's still new
    for me but that's another example
  516. in terms of having the code be compatible for
  517. what shows up on a mobile phone.
  518. I know how people with disabilities use
    an actual standard computer. I'm not as
  519. familiar with people with disabilities
    using mobile devices.
  520. (Audience Member)
    This is more in reference to
    how do we make accessibility
  521. more standard. I think we are
    at a good time now with html 5,
  522. css 3, and all these new additions.
    They are still in the works of
  523. being the global rule of the land,
    compared to how html was very much
  524. do it until it looks right kind of thing,
    so right now, if we do push for it
  525. in as many places as we can
    I think it will potentially be more..
  526. (Sveta voiced by an interpreter)
    Correct, but that isn't enough.
  527. We need to remember also about color -
  528. it's not just about coding,
  529. it's also about the design,
    and the visual aspects
  530. of the website as well.
  531. (Audience Member)
    That's a good point, thanks.
  532. (Audience Member)
    Are there tools?
    As a designer and front end developer,
  533. I'm always using tools like browser stats and
    from other devices because you can't
  534. possibly have all the devices..
    and this is something I need
  535. to consider that there's even more
    devices that I'm designing for
  536. that we're not even looking at.
    So I'm wondering if there are tools
  537. that as developers we can access to
    get an experience of what
  538. a disabled person may be seeing.
  539. (Sveta voiced by an interpreter)
    Yes. You can download the free tools.
  540. I think if you have a Mac,
  541. Mac has screen reader software already
    built in. I just found this out.
  542. There is captioning support too
    which i was really amazed at. I'm curious
  543. as to what the screenreader with captioning is
    going to look like.
  544. The Mac screenreader also has captions,
  545. that's telling me what it says.
    It's really cool. So if you have a Mac
  546. you use the VoiceOver
  547. that's the Mac feature
  548. you can select as an option.
  549. I think in windows, I'm not sure what
    it's called because i don't use windows
  550. there might be something that's
  551. parallel that does
  552. the same thing for windows.
  553. (Audience Member)
    Can I just comment, add to that?
  554. Because I do use windows, can I just
    follow up, is that ok?
  555. (Sveta voiced by an interpreter)
    Sure, go ahead.
  556. (Audience Member)
    OK. On windows there are a couple of speech
  557. detects software. One is called Natural
    Reader, that will read the text on a page,
  558. detects software. One is called Natural
    Reader, that will read the text on a page,
  559. and also turn it into a wav file, so that
    you can automatically...
  560. So, it will read through the copy you've
    written, turn it into a wav file, and
  561. you can repost it on the site. So you've
    automatically turned it into something for
  562. people who can't see but would like to
    hear what you've just written.
  563. (Sveta voiced by an interpreter)
    Thank you for saying, that.
  564. OK, I think that's it (Applause)