Three approaches to psychotherapy - All Three session

(Music)

(Everett L Shostrom)Psychotherapy is such
a personal and private process

that it is a mystery to most people
who have never gone through it

The following series is a unique effort
that allows us to sit in

on what is ordinarily
a very private therapeutic experience.

An actual patient was courageous enough
and considerate enough

to allow herself to be photographed

while actually engaged in therapy with
three different therapists.

Thus we're allowed the privilege
of seeing and feeling

feeling what really transpires.

A film series like this,

in which three therapists distinguished
by their different orientations

share their therapeutic endeavors
has never been made before.

We therefore wish to express our gratitude
to Gloria, the patient,

and to her therapists for allowing us
to share in their therapeutic adventure

This series will be divided into
three separate films.

in the first film we see doctor Carl Rogers
founder of client-centered therapy

interviewing Gloria.

In film number two, Dr. Frederick Perls,
founder of Gestalt therapy

is working with her

and in film number three
Dr. Albert Ellis,

founder of rational-emotive therapy
is our therapist

each therapist will first describe
his system of therapy briefly.

He will then demonstrate
his work with Gloria

and then he will comment briefly
on his work

Now here is Dr. Carl Rogers.

(Carl Rogers) From my own years
of therapeutic experience,

I have come to feel that
if I can create the proper climate,

the proper relationship,
the proper conditions,

a process of therapeutic movement will
almost inevitably occur in my client.

You may ask: 'What is this climate?
What are these conditions?

'Will they exist in the interview
with the woman I am about to talk with,

'and whom I have never seen before?'

Let me try to describe very briefly
what these conditions are as I see them.

First of all, one question is,
can I be real in the relationship?

This has come to have an increasing amount
of importance to me over the years.

I feel that genuineness
is another way of describing

the quality I would like to have.

I like the term 'congruent', by which.
I mean that what I am experiencing inside

is present in my awareness and comes out
through my communication.

In a sense, when I have this quality,
I am all in one piece in the relationship.

There is another word
that describes it for me.

I feel that in the relationship,
I would like to have a 'transparency.'

I would be quite willing for my client
to see all the way through me,

that there would be nothing,
nothing hidden.

And when lam real in this fashion
that I'm trying to describe,

then I know that my own feelings will often
bubble up into awareness

and be expressed,

but be expressed in ways that won't
impose themselves on my client.

Then the second question I would have is,
will I find myself prizing this person,

caring for this person?

I certainly don't want to pretend
a caring that I don't feel.

In fact, if I dislike my client
persistently,

I feel it is better, that I should express it.

But I know that the process of therapy
is much more likely to occur

and constructive change
is much more likely

if I feel a real spontaneous prizing of
this individual with whom I'm working,

a prizing of this person
as a separate individual.

You can call that quality acceptance,
you can call it caring,

you can call it a non-possessive love
if you wish.

I think any of those terms
tend to describe it.

I know that the relationship will prove
more constructive if it's present.

Then the third quality:

will I be able to understand
the inner world of this individual

from the inside?

And then will I be able to see it
through her eyes?

Will I be able to be sufficiently sensitive

to move around
inside the world of her feelings

so that I know what it feels like to be her,

so that I can sense not only
the surface meanings,

but some of the meanings that lie
somewhat underneath the surface.

I know that if I can let myself
sensitively and accurately

enter into her world of experience,

then change and therapeutic movement
are much more likely.

Well, suppose I am fortunate

and that I do experience
some of these attitudes

in the relationship, what then?

Well, then a variety of things
are likely to happen.

Both from my clinical experience
and from our research investigations

we find that if attitudes of the sorts
that I have described are present,

then quite a number of things will happen.

She'll explore some of her feelings
and attitudes more deeply.

She is likely to discover
some hidden aspects of herself

that she wasn't aware of previously.

Feeling herself prized by me,

it is quite possible she'll come
to prize herself more.

Feeling that some of her meanings
are understood by me,

then she can more readily perhaps
listen to herself,

listen to what is going on
within her own experience,

listen to some of the meanings
she hasn't been able to catch before.

And perhaps if she senses realness in me,

she'll be able to be a little more real
within herself.

I suspect there will be a change
in the manner of her expression,

at least this has been my experience
in other instances.

From being rather remote
from her experiencing,

remote from what is going on within her,

it's possible that she'll move toward
more immediacy of experiencing,

that she will be able to sense and express
what's going on in her

in the immediate moment

From being disapproving of herself,
it is quite possible

she will move toward a greater degree
of acceptance of herself.

From somewhat of a fear of relating,

she may move toward being able
to relate more directly

and to encounter me more directly.

From construing life in somewhat rigid
black and white patterns,'

she may move toward more tentative ways
of construing her experience

and of seeing the meanings in it.

From a locus of evaluation
which is outside of herself,

it is quite possible she will move
toward recognizing

a greater capacity within herself for
making judgments and drawing conclusions.

So those are the some of -- those are some
of the changes that we have.

If I have any success in creating

the kind of conditions that I described
initially,

then we may be able to see
some of these changes in this client

even though I know in advance that our
contact is going to be very brief. /////

good morning I'm curious you must be

Barry yes I am I'm service chair no we

have half an hour together and I really

don't know what we'll be able to make of

it but I hope we can make something else

be glad to know whatever concerns you

well I'm right now I'm nervous but I

feel more comfortable the way you're

talking in a low voice oh I don't feel

like you'll be so harsh on me but um I

hear the tremor in your voice ooh a the

main thing I want to talk to you about

is stuff I'm just newly divorced and I

had gone in therapy before and I felt

comfortable when I left and all of a

sudden now the biggest change is

adjusting to my single life and one of

the things that bother me the most is

especially manhe's and having men to the

house and how it affects the children

and the biggest thing I want the same

keeps coming to my mind I want to tell

you about yes I have a daughter 9 who at

one time I felt I had a lot of emotional

problems I wish I could stop shaking and

I real conscious of things affecting her

I don't want her to get upset I don't

want to shock her I want so bad for her

to accept me and will really open with

each other especially about sex and the

other day she saw a girl that was saving

the pregnant and she asked me all about

teen girls get pregnant if they're

single and the conversation was fine and

I wasn't underneath at all with her

until she asked me if I'd ever made love

to a man since I've left her daddy and I

lied to her and ever since that it keeps

coming up to my mind cuz I feel so

guilty lying there there cuz I never

mind

wanted to trust me and I want I almost

want an answer from you I want you to

tell me if it will affect Iran if I told

her the truth or would and it is

concerned about her and the fact that

you really aren't that this open

relationship that has existed between

you and I you feel it kind of yes I feel

like I have to be on guard about that

because I didn't when I was a little

girl when I first found out my mother

father made love it was dirty and

terrible and I didn't I didn't like her

anymore

for a while and I don't want to lie to

pan me either and I don't know

sure wish I could give you the answer as

to what you should tell her all the

things you're going to say that because

what you really want is an answer I want

to especially know if it would affect

her if I was completely honest and open

with her or if it would affect her

because I lied I feel like it's bound to

make a strain because I lied to her

because she'll suspect that or she will

know something's not quite right fine

she'll distrust me yes and also I

thought would she what about when she

gets a little older and she finds

herself in touchy situation she probably

wouldn't want to get it to me because

she thinks I'm so good and so sweet and

yet I'm afraid she could think I'm

really a a devil and I want so bad for

it except me I don't know how much a

learner can take and we would both

alternatives concern you but you might

think you're too good or better than you

really are

yes she might think that you're worse

than you are not worse than I am

I don't know she can accept me the way I

I think I paint a picture that I'm all

sweet and motherly and I'm not ashamed

of my shady side too

it really cuts a little deeper if she

really knew you would she could she

accept you this is what I don't know yes

I don't want to turn away from me I

don't even know how I feel about it

because there are times when I feel so

guilty like when I have the wheel over I

even try to make a special setup so that

if I were ever along with them the

children would never catch me and that

sort of thing because I'm worried about

it and yet I also know I have these

desires let's click here it isn't only

her problem or the relationship with her

it's in you as well my guilt oh yeah I

forgive um so what can I accept myself

as doing yes and you realize that you

said observed subterfuges so as to make

sure that that you're not caught or

something you realize that you are

acting from guilt is it yes I don't like

the way I would like to feel comfortable

with whatever I do if I choose not to

tell family the truth to feel

comfortable that she can't handle it and

they don't I want to be honest and yet I

feel there are some areas but I don't

even accept if you can't accept them in

yourself how could you possibly be

comfortable and telling them to her

right and yet did you say you do have

these desires and you do have your

feelings but but you don't feel good

about

and I thought you're just gonna sit

there and let me experiment laughs I

want more I want you to help me get rid

of my guilt feeling if I can get rid of

my guilt feeling about lying or going to

bed with a single man any of that just

so I can feel more comfortable and I

guess I'd like to say no I don't want to

let's just steal in your feelings but on

the other hand I also feel that this is

the kind of very private thing that I

couldn't possibly answer for you that I

assure is anything we'll try to help you

work toward your own answer I don't know

whether that makes any sense to you but

I mean it well I appreciate you saying

that you sound like you mean it but I

don't know where to go

I don't begin to know where to go I

thought that I'd pretty well worked over

most of my guilt and now that this is

coming up I'm disappointed in myself

I really am I want I like it when I feel

that no matter what I do even if it's

against my own morals or my upbringing

but I can still feel good about me

and now I don't like there's a girl at

work who sort of mothers me and she just

she I think she thinks I'm all sweet and

I sure don't want to show my more ornery

devilish side with her I want to be

sweet and it's so hard for me to to

selfie so nil again it's so

disappointing yeah I get the

disappointment that here a lot of these

things you thought you'd work through

and now the guilts and a feeling that

only a part of you is acceptable to

anybody else yeah that keeps coming out

I guess I could catch the real deep

puzzlement that you feel as to what the

hell shall I do yes and you know what I

can find doctor is that everything I

start to do that I impulse it seems

natural to tell Pierre or to go out on a

day or something

uncomfortable until I think how I was

affected as a child and the minute that

comes up and I'm all haywire like I want

to be a good mother so bad and I feel

like I have a good mother but then

there's those little exceptions like my

guilts with working I want to work and

it's so fun having extra money I like to

work nice the minute I think I'm not

being real good to the children are

giving them enough time then I start

feeling guilty again then that's when I

get some what do they call it a double

line that's just what it feels like I

want to do this and it feels right but

after all I'm not being a good mother

and I want to be both

I'm coming more and more aware of what a

perfectionist I am that's what it seems

like I want to be so perfect you know I

want to become perfect in my standards

or not have that need anymore or I guess

I hear it a little differently that what

you want us to seem perfect but it means

a great matter of great importance to

you to be a good mother and you want to

seem to be a good mother even if some of

your actual feelings differ from them is

it okay yeah I feel like I'm saying that

no that is what I feel really I want to

approve of me always but my actions

won't let me I want to prove with me

I realize you alright let me understand

it the sound of your actions are kind of

outside of you you want to approve of

you but what you do somehow won't let

you approve of your site like I feel but

I could approve with myself regarding

for example my sex life it is the big

thing if I really fell in love the man

and I respected him and I adored him I

don't think I feel so guilty

going to bed with him I don't think I'd

have to make up any excuses to the

children because they could see my

natural caring form but when they have

the physical desire and I'll say over

why not

and I want to anyway then I feel guilty

afterwards I hate pleasing the kids I

don't like looking at myself and I

really enjoy it and this is what I mean

if the circumstances would be different

I don't think it's also guilty because I

feel right about it yeah I guess I hear

you saying if if what I was doing when I

went to bed with a man was really

genuine and full of love and respect and

so on I wouldn't feel guilty in relation

to Pam I wouldn't I really would be

comfortable about that so I said yes and

I know that sounds like I want a perfect

situation but that is how I feel and in

the meantime I can't stop these desires

I've tried that also I've tried saying

okay I don't like myself when I do that

so I would do it anymore but then I

resent the children I think why should

they stop me from doing what I want and

it's really not that bad

that I guess I heard just saying - that

wasn't only the

that I guess I heard you saying to them

isn't only the children you don't like

it as well honey it really isn't I'm

sure that I know that's it probably even

more so than I'm aware of that I all

love it so much when I pick it up in the

children then I can also moans in myself

somehow sometimes you kind of feel like

blaming in for the feelings you have and

why should they cut you off from a

normal sex life well a sex life I could

say not rule because there is something

about me that says that smell they don't

think to just go into sex because you

feel physically attractive or something

or a physical need so something about it

tells me that's not quite right anyway

it's akhil really the times you're

acting in ways that are not in occurred

with your own inner standards right

great but then we're also saying a

minute ago but to feel you can't help

that

yeah I wish I could that's it and I

can't now I feel like I can't control

myself as well as I could have before

for a specific reason now I can't I just

let go and I have there's too many

things I do wrong that I have to feel

guilty for and I sure don't like that

I want you very much to give me a direct

answer and I'm going to ask it and I

don't expect a direct answer but I want

to know do you feel that to me the most

important thing is to be open and honest

and if I can be able to notice with my

joy do you feel that it could handle

them if for example I could say to PME I

was I felt bad lying to the PME and I

want to tell you the truth now and if I

tell her the truth and she shocked at me

which she's upset but that could bother

her more I want to get rid of my job so

that will help me but I don't want to

put him on her okay he thought I could

hurt her I'm sorry I guess I'm sure this

will sound evasive to you but it seems

to me that perhaps the person you're not

being fully honest glib is you because I

was very much struck by the fact that

you were saying if I feel all right

about what I have done but it's going to

beg you the man or what if I really feel

all right about it then I don't have any

concern about what I would tell him or

all my relationships with me right all

right then I hear what you're saying

then all right then I want to work on I

want to work on accepting me them I want

to work on feeling all right about it

now that makes sense that that will come

natural and then I will have to worry

about him but when things don't seem so

wrong for me and I have an impostor

driven how can I accept that what you'd

like to do is to feel more accepting

toward yourself when you do things that

you feel are wrong right

I feel like like I'm saying yeah I feel

like you're going to say no why do you

think they're wrong and I have mixed

feelings there too to therapy I'll say

no look I know this is natural women

feel it sure we don't talk about a lot

socially so all women fill it in it's

very natural I've had sex for the last

11 years and of course going to want it

but I still think it's wrong unless

you're really truly in love with a man

and my body doesn't seem to agree that's

why I don't know how to accept it sounds

like a triangle to me doesn't it you

feel that I or therapists in general or

other people say it's alright it's

alright natural huh go ahead and I guess

you feel your body sort of lines up on

that side of the picture but something

in you says but I don't like it that way

not much it's really right

right

I have a hopeful sign those are all the

things I sorted for myself and I feel

the okay now what if you this is the

conflict and it's just being soluble and

therefore its focus and here you look to

me and I don't seem to give you any help

than what I am I really really can't

answer for me I have to figure it out

myself but I want you to guide me or

show me where to start or so it won't

look so hopeless I know I can keep

living with this conflict and I know

eventually things would work out but I

like feeling more comfortable with the

way I live

anything I meant is what is it you wish

I would say to you I wish you would say

to me

to be honest and take the risk that Pam

is going to accept me and I also have a

feeling if I could really risk it with

Pammy of all people that I'd be able to

see here's this little kid that can

accept me and under they know about that

if she really knows what a demon I am

and still loves me and accepts me it

seems like it would help me to accept me

more like it's really not that bad I

want you to say to go ahead and be

honest but I don't want any sponsor

berry but it would upset her that's

right I might be something you know yeah

you know very well what you'd like to do

in relationship you would like to be

yourself and you'd like to have her know

that you're not perfect and do things

that maybe even she wouldn't approval to

disapprove of to some degree yourself

but that somehow she would love you and

accept you as an imperfect person

like I wonder if my mother had been more

open with world maybe I would have had

such a narrow attitude about sex if I

would have thought that she could be you

know pretty sexy and corny and devilish

too but I would look at her as being

such a sweet mother than she could also

be the other side but she didn't talk

about that maybe that's where I got my

picture I don't know but I want Tami to

see me as a full woman but also accept

me you know it's not so I'm certain I

don't do you mean what I mean is you've

been sitting there telling me just what

you would like to do in that

relationship with him I would but I

don't quite take the risk of doing it

Leslie already tells me that yes I guess

one thing that I feel very keenly is

it's an awfully risky thing to live

maybe taking a chance on your

relationship with her taking a chance on

letting her know who you were really

even if I don't take a chance if I still

have an accepted buyer I'm never going

to sell it about it anyway if your love

and acceptance of you is based on a

false picture of you what the hell is

the good of that but I also feeling a

lot of responsibility with being a

mother

what Idol I don't want to feel like I've

caused any big traumas and the children

they don't like all that responsibility

that's what I don't like feeling it

could be my fault because that's what I

meant when I said life is risky to take

the responsibility for being a person

you would like to be with her is a

however responsibility it is a very

frightening the only way I look at it

two ways I like to see myself as being

so honest with the kids and really being

proud of myself though that no matter

what I told them or no matter how bad

they may think I was I was honest and

down deep it's going to be a much more

wholesome relationship and yet you know

I get jealous like when they're with

their daddy I feel he's more flip he's

not quite as real he's not quite as

honest but nevertheless they see a sweet

picture of their dad

you know mozell Phyllis tonight and I'm

envious of that too I want them to see

was just too sweet if they see him

I know he's not quite as well with them

so it seems like I've got to swap the

one for the other and I know this is

really what I want the most but I miss

some of that glory so feel I want them

to have just as nice a picture of me as

the head of their dad that is a little

funny

then maybe nine I'll have to be - I

think that's putting a little too strong

that's close I just bring me I know she

can have that literature of me if I were

honest decide that I do go I'm Luna

honored and dad anyway so I'm like you

do more things that they disapprove of

sounds are you really find it quite hard

to believe what they would really love

you if they knew that's right you know

that's exactly it before therapy

who she cares about need a picture of me

if I were honest the fact that I do go

on loan will honor their dad anyway

unlikely bill more things that said

disapproval so you really find it quite

hard to believe but they would really

love you if they knew you that's right

you know that's exactly it

before therapy I would have definitely

chosen the other area I'm going to get

respect remain no matter what even if I

have to lie

alright now I know that's not true and

I'm not positive

they'll truly accept me something tells

me they will I know diva but I'm not

positive

I'll agree sure I keep wanting this in

kind of a no-man's land of probably

shifting from one point of view to them

to another that boy I'd sure like

somebody to say that's right you go

ahead and do it yes that's why I get

encouraged when I read in a book from

somebody I respect and admire but this

is the right thing no matter what

honesty will win out well then that

keeps giving with compliments by gosh

and right it it's a damn hard day really

choose something on their own isn't it

which makes me feel very immature I

don't like this I mean I wish I were

great live enough for mature enough to

make my decisions we stick by them but I

need somebody to help me on somebody to

push me

so she can approach yourself for that I

guess until why if I was anybody if I

was grown up I'd be mature enough to

decide things like this price them right

and take more risk I wish that take more

risks I wish that I could just go ahead

and be this with any however the

children go up I've done with this I

didn't have to constantly have this

conflict and I glide Satan used to say

no matter what you ask me kids at least

I told you the truth you may not have

liked it but it's been the truth that's

all now I can admire I just respect

people that lie I hate it so you see

what a good learner I am is I hate

myself if I'm bad but I also hate myself

if I lie

so it's accepting you want to become

more accepting I guess judging here tone

of voice you sound as when you hate

yourself more when you live and do in

terms of things you disappear really I

do because this was really bothered me

this happen with family about a month

ago and it keeps coming to learn I don't

know whether to go back and talk to her

about it

oh wait she may have even forgotten what

she asked me that though everyone does

you haven't forgotten I have no I like

at least be able to tell her this I

remember lying and I'm sorry lied and

it's been driving me bugs because I did

I don't know I feel like now that's

solved and I don't even solve a thing

but I feel relieved I am I just feel

like you've been saying to me you're not

giving me advice but I feel like you're

saying you really want to know what

pattern you want to follow Gloria and go

ahead and follow it that's what I feel

stacking up for you I guess the way I

sense it is you've been telling me that

you know what you want to do and yes I

do believe in backing up people and what

they want to do just a little different

slant from the way it seems to you

are you tell me one thing that concerns

me it's no damn good you're doing

something that you haven't really chosen

to do that's why I'm trying to help you

find out what's your own inner choices

in and there's also a conflict there

because I'm not really positive what I

want to do the lying part yes but I'm

not positive what I want to do when I go

against myself like when I bring in the

end of the house I'm not sure I want to

do that if I feel guilty afterwards

unless not really wanted to just to say

just sure which words you use but you

don't want it you don't like yourself or

you don't agree with it when you do

something against yourself

you know this is so different now this

kind of thing that we're talking about

now

it isn't just knowing whether you want

to do something or not if I want to go

to work in the morning or I don't want

to go to look that's easy but when I

find myself doing something I don't feel

comfortable with I automatically say if

you're not comfortable glory it's not

right something's wrong

all right now what I want to ask you is

how can I know which is the strongest

because I do it does that mean that the

strongest and yet if I disapprove that's

just part of the thing that's got to go

on with it see it sounds like you I'm

picking up a contradiction I'm letting

you know falling

some of you feeling a contradiction in

yourself team oh you what I heard you

saying in part is the way you like it

is when you feel really comfortable

about what you're doing yes and I have

at times when I've made a decision

now that seems right that feels

perfectly right no conflict but then

there are times I do things that I feel

uncomfortable with so that there is the

conflict there it's not the same at all

so what I'm saying is how I really know

when I'm falling my true feelings if I

have conflicts afterwards or guilt

afterwards I see because in the moment

that may seem like your true feelings

yes like if I'm starting to do it okay

so it really is tough

and if you feel comfortable in a moment

about it but then after it don't feel at

all comfortable which course of action

is really the one you should have

followed the most outstanding thing I

don't know if you follow me when I say

about this conflict the one thing I know

is I boil it for example to leave my

husband for quite a few years I never

did it I kept thinking how nice it would

be or how scary it would be but I never

did it and all of a sudden when I did it

felt right I didn't feel mean toward him

I just knew this is what I had to do

that's what I know and following myself

I'm fine my feelings completely had no

conflict there some of the happy things

came from it but I still had no conflict

that to me is will in following my

feelings and in everyday life the small

little decisions the small little things

to do don't come out that clear at all

so many conflicts coming if it's natural

although you're saying I expect it is

but but you're saying TV you know

perfectly well of feeling within

yourself that occurs when you're really

doing something it's right for you I do

I do and I miss that feeling other times

it's better way a clue to me you can

really listen to yourself sometimes

realize no no this isn't the vague

feeling this isn't this isn't the way I

would feel if I was doing that I

we wanted to do but yet many times I'll

go along and do it anyway

and say oh well I'm in the situation

I'll just remember next time I mentioned

this one a lot in therapy and most

therapists granite knee or gig or

something when I say utopia but when I

do fall or feeling and I feel this good

feeling inside me that's sort of utopia

that's what I mean that's the way I like

to feel whether it's a bad thing or a

good thing but I feel right about me

that's what you'll knows utopian moments

you really feel kind of whole you feel

all in one piece yeah yeah it gives me a

choked up feeling when you say that

because I don't get that as often as I'd

like I like that whole feeling that's

real precious to me xscape none of us

get it as often as we like but I really

do understand

don't touch you didn't and you know

we're also are just thinking I thought

he's done saying it

all of a sudden isn't on here is Betsy

on right I can talk to you and I want

you to approve of me and I respect you

but I miss what my father can talk to me

like you are way I'd like to say to you

like you for my father I only know one

that came to me you look to me like a

pretty nice gutter

but you really do miss the fact that you

couldn't be open with your own game

you know I couldn't be open below I

won't blame it on him I think I'm more

open than hit alarm II mean II would

never

this will be talk like you are and not

disapprove but not blowing me down it

yeah I thought of this year the day why

do I always have to be so perfect I'm

why he always wanted me to be perfect I

always had to be better and yeah is that

it was trying like hell to be the girl

he wants you to be you have to same time

my darling thank you

like I almost started writing in the

letter the other day and telling him I'm

a waitress which I expected to

disapprove of like while at nights and I

I always quoted hanging back like no how

do you like me and yet I really want

acceptance and love from him I mean I

really never use slapping and say this

is what I am seeing

yeah but it amazed me how do you like it

but you know what I think I want him to

say and this was you all along for me

and I really love you I guess you really

feel badly you think there's very little

chance you'll say that well maybe it

isn't here I went back home in about two

years ago really really to let him know

I loved him although I bit later him but

he doesn't hear me he just keeps saying

things like honey you know I love you

you know I've always loved doing shit up

in here

never really known you and loved you and

this somehow is what brings the tears in

time I don't know what it is you know

what it

never really known you and loved you and

this somehow is what brings the tears

inside I don't know what it is

you know want to talk about it it feels

more flip if I just sit still it it

feels like a great big hurt down there

did I

mm-hmm much much easier to be a little

flip because then you don't feel that

big lump inside over and again that's a

hopeless situation

I tried working on it and I feel

thinking I have to accept my father just

isn't the type of reality like I'd like

somebody more understanding and caring

he cares but not in the way that we

cooperate and communicate you'll note

that I am permanently cheated hmm that's

why I like substitutes like I like

talking to you and I like limit I can

respect doctors on my I keep sort of

maybe underneath feeling like we're real

close you know and it's sort of like a

substitute father

I don't feel this became

well they're not really my father no I

meant about the real close business

we'll see I think about pretending to

because I can't expect you to feel very

close to me you don't know me that well

all I can do is what I am feeling that

is I feel close to you in this moment

in spite of feeling initially

artificiality of the situation

particularly the hot light I very

quickly became oblivious to the outside

situation and I think the Gloria did too

in many ways I'm glad that she kept

pushing me for an answer to her Rea

personal questions about her sex life

and her relationship to her daughter I

say I'm glad of this because as the

relationship developed it became I think

completely clear to her as well as to me

that she was seeking something a good

deal deeper than that incidentally I'd

like to pay my tribute to her deep

honesty and being willing to talk about

herself so freely although every

individual is entirely unique and in

this respect I was definitely unprepared

for and sometimes surprised by the

material she brought up still in another

sense this was very typical of my

experiences in therapy when I'm able

really to let myself enter into a

relationship and I feel that this was

true in this instance then I find myself

not only being increasingly moved by

being in touch with the inner world of

my client but I find myself bringing out

of my own inner experience statements

which seem to have no connection with

what's going on but which usually proved

to be approved to have a very

significant relationship to what the

client is experiencing I felt there were

one or two incidents of this kind

in this brief interview I was genuinely

moved I probably showed it by the fact

that she told me near the end of the

contact she saw me as the father she

would like to have my reply was also a

thoroughly spontaneous one that she

seemed to me like a pretty nice daughter

I guess I feel that we were only playing

the real world of relationships when I

talk about such an experience in terms

of transference and countertransference

I feel quite deeply about that I want to

say yes we can put this experience and

do some such highly intellectualized

framework that when we do that it

completely misses the point of the very

immediate eval quality of the

relationship at such moments I felt that

Gloria and I really encountered each

other and that in some small but I

believe lasting way we were each of us

enriched by the experience I'm saying

these things almost immediately after

the conclusion of the interview and as

is characteristic of me there are not

more than one or two statements or

incidents which I recall from the

interview I simply know that I was very

much present in the relationship that I

lived it in the moment of its occurrence

and I realized that after a time I may

begin to remember it too but at the

present time I really have a very

nonspecific memory of the whole

interview I'll try to look at it though

a little bit more from a intellectual

rather than a strictly feeling point of

view Gloria showed that I've come to

feel our characteristic elements of

therapeutic movement in the first part

of the interview she was talking about

her feeling

and they were past feelings she was

talking about aspects of her behavior

and of herself as if she didn't quite

own them

she was looking outside herself for a

center or locus of evaluation some

source of authority she saw some of the

things she was talking about in fairly

black-and-white - fashion by the end of

the interview she was experiencing her

feelings in the immediate moment not

only as evidenced by her tears but by

her ability to express very directly and

with immediacy her feelings toward me

she was also much more aware of her

ability to make her own judgments and

choices I guess put in terms that have

become somewhat commonplace you could

say that she moved from the there and

then of her life to the here and now of

elements that she was discovering in

herself and feelings that she was

experiencing in the moment in her

relationship with me all in all I feel

good about the interview I guess I feel

good about myself in the interview and

like Gloria I feel very real regret that

the relationship cannot continue

you

I am to interview a patient and I'd like

to give you some thumbnail sketch of

what Gestalt therapy stands for Agatha

is working on an equation awareness

equal Pleasant time equal reality in

contrast to depth psychology we try to

get hold of the obvious of the surface

of the situation in which we find

ourselves and to develop the emerging to

start strictly on the eye and thou it

now basis any escape into the future or

the past is the exam as a likely

resistance against the ongoing encounter

modern man has edited even up so much of

his potential but his ability to cope

with his existence becomes very

impoverished my aim is this

the patient should recover his lost

potential he should integrate the

conflicting celeritas understand the

difference between being playing

especially the playing of verbal games

on the one hand and of genuine authentic

be a confident behavior on the other the

civil war of inner conflicts weakens the

efficiency in comfort of the patient but

every bit of integration strength need

now in the same emergency of the

therapeutic saturation I repeat in the

safe emergency of the therapeutic

situation the patient begins to take

risks into transforms energies from

manipulating the environment for support

into developing greater greater self

support when its reliance on his own

resources this process is called

maturation

once the patient has learned to stand on

its own feet emotionally intellectually

and economically his need for therapy

will collapse we wake up from the

nightmare of his existence

the basic technique is this not to

explain things to the patient but to

provide the patient with opportunities

to understand and to discover himself

for this purpose I manipulate and fasted

the patient in such a way that he's

confronting himself in this process he

identifies with his lost potential for

instance through assimilating his

projections by acting out by acting out

the alien parts of himself instantly I

consider any interpretation to be a

therapeutic mistake as this one implies

that the therapist understands the

patient paper and the patient himself

takes away from the patient he chance of

discovering himself by himself and

prevents him from finding out his own

values and style and the other hand I

guess I got most of the content of what

the patient says and concentrate most on

the nonverbal level as this is the only

which only one which is less subject to

self-deception in his verbal pseudo self

expression on the nonverbal level the

relevant is start and always emerge and

can deadly in the here and now

we are going to interview for happened

right away I'm scared you see you're

scared but you're smiling I don't

understand how it can be scared and

smile at the same time

and I'm also suspicious of you I think

you understand very well I think you

know that when I get scared I laugh or I

kid to cover up but do you have stage 5

I don't know I'm mostly aware of you I'm

afraid that I'm afraid you're going to

have such a direct attack that you're

going to get me in the corner and I'm

afraid of it I want you to be more on

myself I get you in your corner you put

your hand on your chest this is your

call well it's like yeah it's like I'm

afraid no way would you like to go can

you describe the calling like to go to

yeah it's back in corner where where I'm

completely protected they would be safe

of me for me

well I know I wouldn't really well in

their chosen yeah made you in this color

you're perfectly safe now but what you

doing the girl I just said mister just

see how long would you sit I don't know

but this is so funny as you're saying

this this reminds me of when I was a

little girl

every time I was afraid I feel better

sitting in a corner okay you hanneke I

didn't get you good

well no but it's the same feeling are

you good this feeling reminds me of it

oh you know no not

oh are you when you're not the little

kid yeah okay

so your thought your girl who's afraid

of a guy like I don't even know yeah I

don't know I'll be afraid of you I get

real defensive with you know what can I

do to you

you can't do anything but I can sure

feel down and I can feel stupid for not

having the right answers now what would

it do for you to be feel dumb and stupid

I hate it when I'm stupid what would it

do for you to be dumb and stupid

don't put it so like this what would you

do to me if you would play dumb and

stupid it makes you all the smarter and

all the higher above me then I really

have to look up to you because you're so

smart

yeah but me how practically no I think

you can do that all by yourself I think

the other way along if you play dumb and

stupid you force me to be more explicit

that's been said to me before but I

don't buy it I don't know what I do with

your feet now wiggling joke now oh I'm

afraid to go knows everything I do she

told me I want you to help me become

more relaxed yes I don't want to be so

defensive with you I don't like to feel

so defensive

you're acting like you're treating me as

if I'm stronger than I am and I want you

to protect me more and be nicer to me

are you will feel smile don't believe

about your cords sure bluff your phony

do you believe you mean it seriously

yeah if you see your faded you laugh and

you bigger than you still it's funny put

the performance for me oh I I resent

that very much explicit yes sir I most

certainly I'm not being funny I I will

admit this it's hard for me to show my

embarrassment and I hate to be

embarrassed but boy I resent you calling

me a phony just because I smile when I'm

embarrassed or I'm put in the corner

doesn't mean I'm being a phony wonderful

fiction he didn't spend for the last

minute

well I met you I am that's right it

didn't have to cover up your hangovers

your smile

no in that moment in that minute you had

not therefore well at that minute I was

mad though I wasn't embarrassed

neither to you mention of the phony I

still resent that I'm not involved with

him nervous again I want to get mad at

you I you know what I want you on my

level so I can pick on you just as much

as you're picking on me

okay pic of me

I have to wait till you say something I

can pick on better what does this mean

can you develop this movement it's I

can't find words I want to develop this

but if you went dancing I want to start

all over again with him

okay that's some fun I don't Collier I'd

like to put you on I'd like to ask you a

question and because I have a feeling

you don't like me right off the bat and

I want to know if you do can you not

play put spells not like a Gloria what

would he say he'd say that she's a phony

for one see you our food you're a phony

and you're a flip little girl and your

show-off what would look absolutely

I know what I'd answer I'd say I think

you are too

you'll say tell this to me he told me

what before you got him

secret tip for

for me I'm not quite the right word but

it's more like a a show-off sure I can't

know all the answers

yeah and I want you to be more human and

that doesn't seem very human to me no

it's not about you

Yeah right away find out how I'm kicking

my feet and why am i doing like this why

are you doing like that oh yeah I've got

eyes I can see you're kicking your feet

I don't need a scientific computer to

see that you're kicking your feet let's

think about that I don't need to be wise

to see the chicken feet I know but it

seems like you're trying to find some

reason for it I don't

this year imagination okay I know what

I'd like from you can I tell you what

I'd like Sunita

I'd like you to be aware that I'm

kicking my feet and to be aware that I'm

giggling when I'm really nervous and

accept it instead of putting me on the

defensive having to explain it I don't

want to have to explain why I'm doing

these things you could scream

you said why am i or what am i doing

well what am i doing he said it's right

kicking your feet I didn't ask you to

explain the see imagination

it's not this for it is the foots of

your imagination big difference

to the circuit again you feel now

hello stupid

I'm not playing stupid I don't know this

is plain stupid

you get something with you here there

it's very chance something my hair with

you object to know okay

no but I your your hair and your

features go along with the feeling I had

about you earlier I had a phone I could

be afraid of you and you're the type of

person that seems like you're Demian so

much respect and song Europe these

favorites

I demand so much respect okay that's

what you just saw

well you know how smart I am I know more

about psychology than you do Gloria so

anything I say of course is right can

you say the same is Gloria something

similar is global but the same I guess

Chloe

I demand respect because

I don't know

no I don't identify it with my father

but not me I don't feel like a man

respect the man no sure I mean I think

I'd like more I'd like you to respect me

more well you see so your demand respect

alright yeah yeah so am i right if I

click demand respect from you I would do

who's preventing you except yourself

because I feel if I get myself out on

the corner here let me just drown you're

not going to help me one bit and I know

that I can't quite come up to standards

with you what should i do then you're

the chrome encourage me to come out oh

we don't have enough courage to come out

by yourself

you need something for little limbs in

the stairs out of it oh yeah so anytime

you want somebody to pay attention to

you call into a corner and wait till

your car service that's exactly what I'd

like and this is what I call fun part

knee this is for the court for me why is

it funny I'm admitting to you what I am

how is that a funny that is a phony

because it's a trick it's a gimmick the

quality of Colin wait until somebody

comes to us I'm admitting it I know what

I'm doing I'm not being funny I'm not

pretending I'm so brave I resent that I

feel like you're saying unless I come

out openly and stand on my own I'm not a

phony baloney I'm just just as real

sitting in that corner as I am out here

all by myself but ends up sitting in New

Mexico well not now

and besides that it's like passing

judgment when you call me phony I just

hate that anyway now we are getting

something I call anybody phony who put

some necked and if you like somebody you

want to meet this person to go to this

person tell them I would like to meet

you I would call not for me but if you

consciously go into the corner and

waiting to be rescued this I call for me

here's a copy and I still think you're

judgmental you know what I have a

feeling you've never felt this way in

your life you feel so secure that you

don't have to feel anybody that does

something like this you're gonna pass

judgment on their being a phony while I

resent it no play puts passing judgment

or you're sitting up there in your big

old chair I'm the type a stretcher

how's catchman on Mila

I don't feel close to you at all dr.

pearls I feel that's Tony I feel like

you're playing one big game

what sure it playing games but in spite

of the games I think I touch you now and

then I think I'm out you in our culture

food of course you did

and I think I hit the bull's eye that's

why you feel hot

I don't know all I know is when somebody

when I feel the way I feel with you

right now

I it's like you don't have feelings

right now

accentuate this but you just like that's

it talk to you like I can't I can't I

want to laugh I want to I'd like you to

be younger than me so I could really

scold you how it must have been my h3

good at something now imagine I know

yours could okay don't be so cocksure

yourself don't think you're so doggone

smart

don't act so proud because you've never

been in the corner I think you can be

just as big a phony parading around like

you're so damn smart you know all the

answers as much as me sitting in my

corner

oh and I like the feeling with you being

younger I'd like to really I'd like to

embarrass you

it does when you every what you wouldn't

get embarrassed you see my affected

Bettis me how hard how ugly I am

you don't look alike when you look

distinguished

that gives us all the more on your side

if you look so distinguished then see

that's more on your side too right oh

yeah can you see Swanson with quite a

good fire no I know no that's it

I don't think you're fighting with me

but I thought you came out quite a bit

know how manager wonderful but you seem

so detached you don't even seem to care

that I'm mad at you for not recognizing

me at all doctor Pearl's not a bit this

is quite true our contact is much too

superficial to be involved in cave I

care for you as far as let's see you all

right now my client I care for you as

far as I'd like to like an artist in

something hug which is hidden

this is fire care

well I'd like you to I'd like to feel

that there's some it's frustrating if I

were to leave you right now and not see

again it would frustrate me to feel like

there haven't been more contact I feel

completely out of contact with you like

I'm talking to the baby that doesn't

understand me or something like that I

don't feel like we're a bit in contact

and that frustrates me that bothers me

more than being angry with you I'd

rather we were angry and fought and to

have no contact yeah this reminds me of

when my husband and I used to fight he

sits there and he listens to me but he's

not even aware of how much I hate him

and how mad I am at him I'd rather say

I'd love it rather affect you you didn't

really hate me or something and I feel

like you're purposely staying out of

contact with me how should I be

give me a fantasy how could I share my

concern with here

I can't say in words I know the feeling

I'd seen on you but I can't say it's

just a feeling like I don't know it's

like I want you to respect me more as a

human being that I've got feelings now

we come back to the beginning so you

won't respect yes I do I do

this is a different kind of respect and

I won it the first time but you want to

eat this yes

I respect you so much as you deem that I

refuse to accept the phony part of

yourself and I trust myself to the

genuine part right now the last few

minutes we were wonderfully generally

women playing anymore I could see you

very good okay

well I don't feel I've got it right when

I felt like somebody or I disagree what

somebody's doing if if I should respect

them if they're above me they're

superior to me I don't feel I've got a

right to really really tell you how mad

I am it's it's village

we're not take it to chicken you're

taking pic to your safe corner that's

the way it feels

that's what the seed corn feels like to

me now go back to your safe crop because

we have to pop well so you steal

yourself collar you came out for a

moment

you nearly met me could get a little bit

angry with me

okay for your safety I feel like you're

telling me the only way you respect me

as a human being if I'm aggressive and

forceful in strong yeah I thought you

couldn't even accept mine I'd be scared

to death to cry in front of you I feel

like you'd laugh at me and call me a

phony I feel like you don't accept my

weak side only when I'm yelling back at

you were hollering at you you must

define Memphis well I wouldn't even give

you the satisfaction see this again no

see the ticket

I try not to I try not to cry in front

of you or show my weak spot for period

jump on me again

hey that your eyes are most I'm aware

that I feel more jokey yes I feel it

could you choke me

pretend but not for real women for me

because I don't hate you that much

anyone who took my history with me to

choke you so you would be crying I'd

like to I'd like to choke you it would

be to make you cry I'd like to see you

weak I'd like to see you hurt and

vulnerable

refer to this thing for you

make me feel like I'm I have more of a

right to be heard you went jump on me so

quick would you jump on me if I would

cry

no but I would jump on you if you would

cry

you sure this

no I'm not sure

but what would you like me to do if you

were to cry

are you smiling you're trying something

off

well because I got two feelings I was

gonna say I want you to I want you to

love me and hug me but then I thought no

I don't want to what's your passion I'd

be scared to be too close to you now

we're getting somewhere

first you want to be close to me now

your fate to be too close just what I'm

saying

that's right now we got the two ports of

exist look they're two different

feelings close I mean emotionally but

not physically affected two ports of

existence now I have a far away in the

corner I'll be so close that you can

melted to run with other person the

penalty travel between the two extremes

I do you know what I'm thinking when I

am really hurt and really upset about

something and I want someone to love me

like my girlfriend will do a lot and

she'll come up to hug me I don't I don't

want it see what I'm talking about

you cannot sustain contact

okay this isn't damage but I think if

you hit too close to your foe and if you

let her hug you

the only thing I'm aware of is like when

I perspire it embarrasses me that should

feel how wet I am and it should hold my

body up close and I don't know I'll feel

fish it's question yeah yes I am I do

this more geeky

is it itchy I can just feel what it is I

don't like it you see this to me put

your icky

you know

that's a difficulty because I feel like

if you really believe me that one hurt

your feelings oh you must love my

feelings wow I thought that was so

indifferent sissy before that road

nothing could touch me now you suddenly

discovered the way to touch me isn't it

well you know what I believe I believe

you're the type of person sort of like

really that you act like it wouldn't

hurt your feelings but it really would

Black's strong but you you're soft and

vulnerable inside there too I think your

feelings could be hurt sure but I don't

think you'd show it very easy look what

I do I would I could see to my feelings

I turning it back on me

I think now what did you get from that

Gloria you turn the whole thing back on

me instead of showing another jewel

now can you see this to puts out to you

what did you get out of this face see

this to me would you get out of what but

you just see Mississippians

sure I know what you'd get out of it if

I said what did you get out of this rich

kid say nothing it didn't bother me it

was you that didn't you still wouldn't

let me know you were hurt but I know

what it would be if you told your true

feelings but you didn't want to show

your hurt so you covered it up same way

with me in the corner

not if I well if I would cry what would

you do this

you would be you wouldn't be so superior

to me you'd be more vulnerable and I

could pacify you and make you feel

better

good hard for me yes and I could be the

babe yes yes I'd like that

he had feel more on my level I wouldn't

have to feel so done with you the other

way Paul who would have to be my baby

she would cry we would like to pay the

baby and be comforted in Parkton the

poor thing every man to

attend something came to mass closure

he came to little bit of understatement

I think we finish this simple situation

well

the demonstration was in my opinion

quite successful and consistent with my

theoretical outlook the avoidance of the

genuine encounter manifested itself in

three ways

the patient was first taking control by

putting on a smiling sophisticated phony

mask of oscillating between the pretense

of being frightened and yet at the same

time having me figured out that's being

or believing to be fully in control of

the situation secondly she was

withdrawing by fantasizing of hiding in

a corner Berkeley she was blocking the

real encounter of melting through crying

which then would have been the real

emotional meaning of this meeting the

patient was capable of identifying her

surface several fantasies she had

projected onto me she was this was

especially evident with regard to her

initial denial for need to be respected

the need for environmental support

started to come out beside so need to

get respect

it was normalized in a wish to be cared

for rescued from the corner and so on I

broke off the session when the first

tears begin to appear she began to play

the role of a lonely child and

apparently wanted to be hugged and

comforted adhere to a simulation of a

projection began to work she began to

experience holding me like a baby

apart from

assisting in assimilating and some

projections they made therapeutic factor

was to show how the inconsistency of a

verbal and nonverbal behavior for

instance saying that she was frightened

and smiling at the same time a

frightening person does not smile may I

fear it was in the direction of

embarrassment this embarrassment was

protected by the brazenness and anger to

get to exist the existential

embarrassment we would have to work

through and eliminated the phone in this

that is the ease with which we can

superficially assume any role that is

required for a specific situation

this suit adaptation is her way of

coping with life this is about what I

got out of this session

you

rationale therapy a rational emotive

therapy also called

RT for short is based on several

fundamental propositions or hypotheses

the first of these is that the past is

not crucial in a person's life

the past affects him a good deal but he

effects himself much more than the past

affects him because no matter what he

has learned during his historical

development the only reason why these

things that have happened to him and

have been told to him affect him today

is because he is still re indoctrinating

himself with the same philosophies of

life the same values that he usually

imbibed and taught himself to early in

his childhood so we stick largely in the

present in rational emotive

psychotherapy rather than in the past

and we believe that today the individual

experiences negative emotions

self-defeating behavior inefficiencies

because he now is indoctrinating himself

with what we call simple exclamatory

sentences which involve ideas human

beings can tell themselves ideas in all

kinds of languages and pictures in sign

languages and non verbal expression in

man for example but they normally speak

to themselves in simple English if

English is their native tongue and when

they talk to themselves in an irrational

or an illogical way then they create

they literally create their negative

feelings or emotions in the behavior

that follows their from now just to give

an example the individual usually tells

himself when he's upset first the same

sentence and then an insane that

the same sentence is something along the

order of I don't like the thing that

I've done I dislike my own behavior and

that would be fun but unfortunately he

follows it with an insane sentence which

says to himself and because I don't like

my behavior I am a louse I am worthless

I am a no-goodnik and this thoroughly

insane sentence which is a sentence of

faith unfounded on fact which has no

empirical reference which is a kind of

superstitious or dogmatically religious

system creates what we call his anxiety

and through his anxieties depression his

guilt

there's other forms of self defeatism or

again the individual tells himself the

same sentence I don't like your behavior

when let us say somebody's acted badly

with him and instead of following that

up with that because I don't like your

behavior I can still stand it and I'm

going to try to change to get you to

change your behavior he says I can't

stand your behavior or in an absolute

istic god-like grandiose manner you

shouldn't be the way you are because I

think that I don't like the way you are

now it's the second B sentences which

upset the individual or another way of

putting it as epictetus a Roman

philosopher said many years ago it's not

what happens to us at point-a that it

upsets us it's be a view of what happens

to us and in rational emotive

psychotherapy we go after this

individual the patient's view and show

him that whatever he thinks is upset him

usually some external situation what

somebody else has done it's really what

he's telling himself about this thing

this event which upsets him and although

he may never be able to do anything

about the external event at a he can

change the internal event his sentence

is belief to himself at D now in

rational emotive psychotherapy we try to

show the patient three kinds of insight

and counted distinctions to some other

therapies which usually emphasize one

magic on the first kind we try to show

him is that all his behaviors especially

his negative self-defeating behavior

which we're interested which is

upsetting him has clear-cut ideological

antecedents he may have learnt these as

I said before in the past but right now

today he must still believe these same

ideologies else he would not get the

negative behavior that flows therefrom

and insight number two which is most

important than which is unfortunately

neglected and many other systems of

psychotherapy is that he being as Ernst

casera once said a symbolizing animal is

continually re-induction aiding himself

with these ideologies and that's the

issue that's why he's now disturbed now

in sight number three is that even when

he sees clearly what he's telling

himself and that he's telling himself

nonsense only by work and practice by

continually reassessing and revaluing

his own philosophical will he ever get

better

now we also stress the fact that action

is necessary to change an individual

just talking about things thinking about

things is nice but not necessary I

should say it's not a necessary

condition for psychotherapeutic can

change the change what the individual

has to do in addition usually is act and

we therefore give him concrete homework

assignments and get him to act these out

and check up and follow to see whether

he does these homework assignments and

our final goal is to get the individual

to learn and learn for the rest of his

life to challenge and question his own

basic value system his own thinking so

that he

really thanks for himself he must do

this particularly when he feels

miserable he feels anxiety or depression

or guilt or too much frustration or

anything else that is negative or when

he behaves very inefficiently and

finally he was able through this kind of

you thinking rethinking his own

assumptions to apply what we call the

scientific method to the facets of human

living and to be truly scientific in his

behavior to question and challenge his

own assumptions as we do in science and

thereby to minimize or never entirely to

eliminate the terrible anxiety and the

atrocious hostility which unfortunately

affects most of us in this existence

well Gloria I'm not relevant yeah after

we hit it

well would you like to tell me what's

bothering you most yeah I think the

things that I'd like to talk to you the

most about are adjusting to my single

life mostly men I guess America diet I

don't know if I'm doing the wrong thing

but I'm going to refer to your book

anyway because this is what I'm

impressed with this book about the

intelligent Woman's Guide to man 9 yeah

tried to follow it and I believe in it

this is why it's so fun reading your

book because I'm not much of a reader

but I sort of believe the same way you

do

but then I've got a problem is there

healthy men that I do I'm attracted to

or the type of man I'd like to become

closely as always I can't seem to meet

or I get to shower with or something

that I don't

it just doesn't click the men I seem to

be dating nowadays are the ones that I

don't respect much the ones I don't

enjoy much the same blip and

uninteresting and I don't know if it's

something about me or what because I

really do want to meet this kind of man

well let's talk a little about your

shyness let's suppose you meet somebody

who you consider eligible but you might

walk now let's see if we can get at the

source of your shyness just what you're

telling yourself to create this you meet

this man and you feel shy and Bharath

yes but I don't usually show that I

usually act slip right back yeah I act

like the other man act to me of America

kayak flip

I don't seem near as intelligent I act

like a typical dumb blonde I'm just I'm

just not myself with him I'm more on a

tease yes well as you probably know from

x-man hunting I believe that people only

get

emotions such as negative emotions of

shyness embarrassment shame because they

tell themselves something in simple

explanatory sentences now let's try to

find out what you're telling yourself

you're meeting this individual now what

do you think your sink is up before you

get I didn't know what it is that I'm

not I don't stand up to his expectations

I'm not quite enough for him he's

superior to me although I want this type

of man I'm afraid

I won't have enough to attract him well

that's the first part of the sentence

that might be a true one because maybe

he could be spirit to you in some ways

maybe he wouldn't be attracted to you

but that would never upset you if you

were only saying that I think he may be

superior to me now you're adding a

second sentence to that which is if this

is so that would be awful

well not quite so extreme as that

because I thought about that too it

usually I've missed my chance again

because when I want to become I want to

show the very best of myself because I

think I have self-confidence and I have

enough to offer when I get afraid like

that then I show all the bad qualities i

ĂŹm flip on then I'm so much on the

defensive that I can't show my good

qualities and it's like I miss my chance

again there was a good opportunity to be

close to this man and I Loused it up

again all right but even let's suppose

you're saying that and I think you're

really off but you must be saying

something else too because if you were

just saying hell I missed my chance

again you'd say all right next time I'll

take advantage of what I learned this

time and do it a little better now you

still must be saying if you feel shame

embarrassment shine there's something

pretty bad about your error in missing

your chance again I don't know if this

follows in contact what you're saying

but the thing I do feel is that I get

suspicious then am I the type of woman

that will only appeal to the ones that

are

not my type of guy anyway is there

something wrong with me am I never going

to find the kind of man I enjoy I always

seem to get the other one all right now

you're getting closer to what I'm

talking about because you're really

saying if I am this type of woman that

none of these good eligible males are

going to appeal to then that would be

awful I never get what I want and that

would really be something frightful

I don't like thinking of myself that way

I want to put myself on a higher

standard I don't like to think that I

may be just an average Jane Doe so let's

just suppose for the second argument at

the moment that that were sir that you

were an average Jane Doe now would that

be so terrible would be inconvenient it

would be unpleasant you wouldn't want it

but would you get an emotion like

shyness embarrassment shame out of just

believing that maybe I'm going to end up

like Jane Doe I don't know I don't think

it could because you still would have to

be saying on some level as I think

you've just said and it would be very

bad it would be terrible I would be a

no-goodnik if I would just watch it I

don't never get what I want if I were

just a Jane Doe and I thought I have to

accept it I'd never get what I want and

I don't want to live the rest of my life

with just kicking in well why not

necessarily so you've never you really

mean your chances would be reduced

because we know some icky girls who get

some splendid men don't yeah if they say

you're generalizing there you're saying

it probably would be that I'd have a

more difficult time but then you're

jumping to therefore I'd never get at

all you ain't a catastrophizing there

that you jump to yes but it feels that

way to me at the time it seems like

forever that's right but isn't that a

vote of non-confidence in you an

essential vote of non-confidence and the

non-confidence is because you're saying

one I don't want to miss out on I think

I would like to get the kind of a man I

want and be a in your word superior kind

of girl who gets a superior kind of man

yes but if I don't then I'm practically

on the other side of the chain

completely a no-goodnik somebody will

never

anything that I want which is quite an

extreme away isn't it yes and that's

what I call catastrophizing taking a

true statement and there is a good deal

truth what you're saying if you didn't

get the kind of a man you watch it that

it would be inconvenient annoying

frustrating which it really would be and

then saying I'd never possibly get what

I want and even beyond that you're

really saying and then I couldn't be a

happy human being aren't you really

saying that but let's just look at that

let's just assume the worst the

spiritual Russell once said years ago

assume the worst that you never got at

all for whatever the reasons may be the

kind of a man you want look at all the

other things you could do in life to be

happy well I don't like the whole

process I don't even like if I'm going

through it I don't all right even if it

wasn't a catastrophe yeah even if I

didn't look at it as a catastrophe I

don't like the way I'm living right now

for example when I meet somebody that

I'm interested in that could have some

potential by the way I find I'm not near

as relaxed with him I worry more should

I be friendly should I kiss him

goodnight should I do this if it's just

a Joe doe and I don't give it on I can

be anything I want to be I turn out to

be more of a person when I'm not as

concerned I don't like the way I'm up

well I would you're not you're not

really concerned you're over concerned

you're anxious because you were just

concerned you do your best you'd be

saying yourself

if I succeed great if I don't succeed

top right now I won't get what I want

but you're over consider actions you're

really saying again that's what you said

a moment ago if I don't get what I want

right now I'll never get it and that

would be so awful that I've got to get

it right now that causes the anxiety

doesn't it yes or else work toward it

yes but if I don't get it right now

that's alright but I want to feel like

I'm working toward it yes that you want

a guarantee I hear my trained ears hear

you saying I would like a guarantee of

working towards there are none sir well

no dr. house

I don't know why I'm coming out that way

what I really mean is I want a step

toward working toward it

well I bother you I don't know I thought

well what I was hoping is whatever this

isn't me why I don't seem to be

attracting these coming and why seem on

the defensive why I seem more afraid you

could help me when it is I'm afraid of

so I won't do it so much well my

hypothesis is so far that what you're

afraid of is not just family with this

individual man which is really the only

thing at issue when you go out with a

new and we're talking about eligible

males I will rule out the ineligible one

you're not just afraid that you'll miss

this one

you're afraid that you'll miss this one

and therefore you miss every other and

therefore you prove that you are really

not up to getting what you want and

wouldn't that be awful you're bringing

in these catastrophe you sound more

strong in it but that's similar I feel

like this is Cecilia if I keep this up

because I think I'm doing there's

something I'm doing that to be as real a

person with these men that I'm

interested as write your defeating your

own ends but I've done it again if I

weren't so doggone anxious about trying

to hook this guy I could be more real

he's going to enjoy me more if I'm real

anyway so I'm only giving him the stinky

part of me right how can anybody I

respect respect it's a church and that's

what I am when I don't really come

through but look how you just devalued

yourself let's just suppose in sake of

argument you kept giving the stinky part

of you a human being another person

who's trying to get interest in you

might not like these attributes these

characteristics of you but I don't think

he's going to despise you as a person

who's you are really doing I don't I'm

writer on myself and I think that's

exactly of course like me there's not

enough to me right and I say before if

people just didn't like you when you

went through enough of lemon it would be

hard to go through enough that it would

be possible you'd eventually find one

who did like you and whom you like but

as long as you devalue yourself

personally in your own eyes you

complicate the problem enormous ly and

you're not focusing on how can I be

myself

change the traits if you for example

Hedy let us just say a mangled arm and

you wouldn't accept your whole person

being because of this mangled arm then

you would focus so much on that mangled

arm that you wouldn't be able to do

things that you wouldn't otherwise be

able to do it's almost what I did yes

yes you say that's exactly so you taking

a part of you an arm and focusing almost

completely on that in just to bring it

down to our own conversation taking a

part of you your shyness you're not

being yourself with males and focusing

so much on that part that you're almost

making not at the whole of you and you

get an awful picture of your total self

because of this defective part and we're

assuming you and I didn't is effective

we're not glossing opens they know

you're doing alright you're not doing

that well right now you can accept

yourself for the time being with this

defective part with these attributes and

not beat yourself over the head as I see

of you definitely in doing then it

becomes a relatively simple problem to

work and practice to work and practice

against this negative attribute in other

words let's get back to that now how to

be yourself let's just suppose for the

moment that you really were fully

accepting yourself with your failings

alright you know you're going to go how

you know you're gonna screw up with the

next man man after that an old

probability but you're saying alright I

have to go through a learning process

that's too bad I won't be very good

during this while but I'll do it just as

I would add ice skating where I have to

fall on my neck for a few times before I

learned to ice skate okay now let's

suppose that man if that was so you were

really accepting you you go out take the

risks of being you because after all if

you do in one of these then you have to

be yourself you're not winning them for

a day you're not winning them for a fair

I assume you want to marry one of these

individuals eventually and be

relationship I don't think so yeah he

reaches along alright a long

relationship in the course of which you

couldn't ask so we don't want to give

you something I think well that he'll

later find that was a role playing good

thing so you have to eventually be

yourself now if you really weren't so

disturbed about these present current

failings views you could go out and be

this self of yours ask yourself what do

I really want to do with

man to help and join him and have him

help and join me because that's the

basic function of life enjoyment which

we can't lose and you force yourself to

take the risk of being back because if

you succeeded great

if you fail too bad either you not for

him or he may even not be for you

because don't forget you said before

when these men are projecting you assume

right away it must be my doing a my

fault you know they may not be your cup

of tea and you may not be their cup of

tea and it's nobody's fault it's just

true incompatible with it yes you say

yes so if you would really accept

yourself as you are and then force

yourself as if you were one of my

regular patients I would give you this

homework assignments and then check up

on you to see whether you can force

yourself to open your big mouth and be

you for a while even though it hurt with

these nails you would find the a you

would start being yourself and gradually

laughing off these inefficiencies which

incidentally are the result of not being

you but watching yourself from the

outside while you trying to be you which

is almost impossible because you can't

spy on yourself and still be yourself

very well at the same time no but it

would become like a habit after a while

if you took the risks and force yourself

to as I said open your big mouth and

even though you thought maybe it'll come

out badly maybe he won't like me maybe

I'll lose him complete me and so on and

so forth then you start swinging in the

groove and being what you want to be and

I would almost guarantee that you'd

become more practice than less

inefficient especially in terms of the

shyness because you wouldn't be focusing

on oh my god isn't this awful how bad I

am you would be focusing on what a place

individual this is and how can I enjoy

him which is the oh the focus well you

see my relationship

other way how can I be more attractive

to him and how can he be pleased by me

because underneath if I am NOT then I

cannot enjoy myself I refuse to accept

myself unless I attract and win this

good individual isn't that what you

basically yes and I even go further dr.

must win when there is one of these men

I come in contact with and I find that I

want it called a bit more of a

relationship well if he accepts me I'm

going along pretty great I find myself

constantly on the defensive honestly

watching the way I see it not drinking

too much the whole time instead of just

relaxing a single eater like Mary

doesn't supposed in psychotherapy you're

giving a very good illustration of why

other directors this is business other

directors it doesn't pay because if you

really are defining yourself in terms of

others estimation of you then even when

you're ahead of the game and you're

winning them you have to be saved

yourself will I win them today will I

win them tomorrow will I keep winning

them and you're always focused on am i

doing the thing to please him and you

never are yourself you never have itself

while if you're saying what do I want to

do in life there must be some human

beings who would like me the way I am

let's see if this is one of those human

beings then that's the only way isn't it

that you can be you see you know we

haven't got too much car now so let's

try to get it off on a constructive

notice more concretely what you can do

you asked before where you can go how

you can meet new people I'd say that I

don't know this particular area but it's

almost any place if you could do what we

are talking about really take risks and

focus on what you want out of life and

on the fact that it's going to take time

which unfortunately it does and then

it's not awful and you are not awful

while it's taking that time then you can

leave yourself open unsure lead to all

kinds of new and counselors and these

encounters can take place on buses while

waiting for a streetcar

they have streetcars in this area at

cocktail parties anywhere you can talk

to people who look eligible you can ask

your friends to get you eligible but

males

but the main thing is that you have to

pay like yourself while you're not doing

badly and be not be intolerance against

conditions which are bad and I'm

agreeing with you that they are now as I

said I would give you if your aphasia

mind the homework assignment of

deliberately very deliberately going out

and getting yourself into trouble in

other words taking the most eligible

males you can find at the moment and

forcing yourself risking yourself to be

you are you saying even if it were like

if I went into a doctor's office to

start a conversation with him because he

was attractive to me or he appealed to

me right if I go so far as to starting

out a conversation with him personally

and why not it is an eligible individual

any kind of an eligible individual I

know you accept that but that seems

awfully brazen I symbol X suppose it is

brazen what have you got to lose the

worst he can do is reject you and you

don't have to reject you if you were

thinking along the lines that we've been

25 minutes a second so yeah now can you

try to do that I think I think so in

order to give me a spurt to go out and

see you're right that's all I can do is

be rejected right and that needs you

intact it just leaves you unfortunately

not for the moment getting what you want

so you try to go anywhere in red and

I'll be very interested in finding out

what happened oh I'm excited and father

well it was certainly very nice meeting

you for thank you doctor

I enjoyed talking with this interesting

and I think highly courageous patient

and thought that it gave a the session

gave a pretty good illustration of a

fairly typical session of rational

emotive psychotherapy how was it typical

in several ways in the first place I was

able rather rapidly and quickly to get

to some of what I think are the

philosophic cores of the patient's

disturbances to show her that the reason

she is feeling shy and the shame frayed

in this instance is because even though

partially unwittingly she is defining

herself in a very negative way or

devaluing herself by blaming herself too

much for imperfect behavior because

perfectionism is the root of most human

evils and she was showing some fairly

typical perfectionistic notions so very

quickly as is usually done in rational

emotive psychotherapy we skip some of

the asides we skip going back into the

history of some of the psycho analysts

do and we skip some of the transference

relations between us and the patient and

we skip some of the nonverbal expression

not that we think these things are quite

unimportant that we think there are

relatively little relevance to the basic

core of the patient's disturbance which

is her philosophy of life typically

again this patient showed both anxiety

and low frustration tolerance which most

patients showed and these were

intertwined and again very usually she

was then beating herself over the head

blaming herself condemning herself for

feeling these kinds of feelings now she

did not see very clearly at least I

thought so at the beginning of the

session exactly what the claritin

sentences and exclamatory sentences she

was telling herself to create these

feelings and I endeavoured to show her

some of these sentences and what could

be done about it

among other things I also though briefly

because this is just one brief session

tried to give her a homework assignment

that you could go and get her teeth into

and actively try to do 2d propagandize

herself by going out and taking risks

which normally up to now she hadn't been

taking that much of it's interesting to

note that again quite typically in this

session although I was attacking fairly

vigorously the patient's attitudes or

philosophies she did not feel an attack

on her she felt that I was supporting

her anything and she ended up I thought

rather optimistically feeling that I had

given her several ideas of what she

could do in the future again rather

typically in this session I kept

persuading the patients and attacking

her ideas and showing her that her

philosophy of life not only was such and

such but that if she stuck to this kind

of philosophy she had to get negative

and self-defeating results from it and

then I kept persistently going on even

though a time she became defensive and

wasn't quite accepting by any means what

I was saying

I didn't let this bother me but kept

going on against her basic core system

her value system because this is again

what bothers patients that they give up

very easily on attacking their own

negative evaluations of themselves and

therefore they persist forever now the

world limitations of course especially

in terms of time through the session and

these limitations did have some effect

for example it wasn't a not enough time

for repetition in several sessions I

would have gone over much of the same

material until I was sure that hadn't

sunk in then I would have had time to

get feedback from the patient to see

whether she really understood in action

in particular what I was talking about

and whether she was following it up or

leading herself up some other diverting

pathway which people can do there was no

time to emphasize that she would have to

continually reassess her evaluations of

herself and her general philosophies and

do rethinking for the rest of the life

time to show the patient very much that

even during this session in relation to

me and what she was saying about herself

that she was displaying her bad

attitudes toward herself and finally

there was no occasion because this was

an individual session to see how she

related specifically to other non

therapists so she would in group therapy

and in the midst of this group situation

to show her exactly what was going on

and what she could do about it but I do

feel hope hopeful about the session and

think that perhaps I was able to at

least to give the patient a few ideas

which he could then go out and work on

on her own because unless patients do

work themselves with the material that

we therapists give them in psychotherapy

nothing eventually happens it isn't any

magic that we have for them but we can

give them certain catalytic ideas and

influences which then if they work and

practice at work and practice that will

do them good for the rest of their lives